The Syndicate

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:08 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:48 am Good morning. I still have two pages to read, but so far, people are coming around to LC as a possible baddie. I seem to remember someone else thinking LC could be bad. Oh yeah...it was me!

It's not something you're going to end up being proud of. Unless you're bad, of course.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:10 am Okay, scratch my second tonlast post, I guess. LC voting JJJ does help him look better. I'm a mess. Thought Inmight have gotten one right.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:56 am

malakim2099 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:04 am A janitor in this game. Very interesting.

Though I suspect the Martian is involved with that. Too many secrets.

Going to bed now, will poke back after some sleep.

The surprise and unawareness of the nightkill mechanics in this game malakim displayed here appear genuine and believable to me. I think he's a townie who believed for a fleeting moment that we had a janitor in this game, or that the nightkill was carried out by Olympus Mons. If he was scum he would have been clued into their target and would presumably be aware of his team's full complement of abilities.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:56 am

malakim2099 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:04 am A janitor in this game. Very interesting.

Though I suspect the Martian is involved with that. Too many secrets.

Going to bed now, will poke back after some sleep.

The surprise and unawareness of the nightkill mechanics in this game malakim displayed here appear genuine and believable to me. I think he's a townie who believed for a fleeting moment that we had a janitor in this game, or that the nightkill was carried out by Olympus Mons. If he was scum he would have been clued into their target and would presumably be aware of his team's full complement of abilities.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:02 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:52 amNo.

I explained my suspects in way too much detail there, but I also largely ignored Jay's Day 4 ISOs because I'm viewing them as pure, unfiltered wifom. I did make the same observation as you that wilgy was the only target who he offered a definitive read on, though. I would expect Jay to want to bus a teammate or two, and I would likewise expect a teammate or two to want to bus Jay.
colonialbob's interactions fit this model best of anyone, in my opinion. They sort of hovered around one another on Days 2 & 3, without ever really delivering any criticism of one another. Jay labeled bob as "not a town read" after I came up with my initial Bob case, but that suspicion fell completely off the map afterwards. Until Day 4, when suddenly bob was apparently highly confident in Jay's badness; confident enough to attack another player (DDL) for appearing to defend Jay, but somehow not confident enough to vote for him on his own. Jay, meanwhile, offered an ISO that was far more critical of bob than he had been prior and even made one point in particular that was directly opposed to a stance he had taken earlier in the game, when presumably BaddieJimmyJay would have wanted to keep his partners out of harm's way. I could not help but sense a shift in the way each of them approached one another on Night 3/Day 4.

Sig was the low-posting suspect who Jay repeatedly named, but never pursued in any serious manner. Dom/malakim and sprityo/dunya were both players who Jay actively tried to lynch at one point or another.

I agree with much of what you have to say about wilgy, but I do not disregard the possibility that the two of them as partners conspired to maximize the distance between them in the thread. It would have been fairly elaborate, but that's not something I would put past either of them.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:37 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:10 am Okay, scratch my second tonlast post, I guess. LC voting JJJ does help him look better. I'm a mess. Thought Inmight have gotten one right.

I don't really see how my JJJ vote makes me look any better.

I didn't vote him during his lynch. I voted him the day before, at the last second, when it wasn't even going to kill him. And by my clock, I actually missed the deadline and had my vote on Mesk, as I said. When JJJ actually went down, I did nothing to help that happen. I voted my old suspicion Speedchuck, and I think that when I left my vote on speedy and went to bed, it tied him up with JJJ, or possibly someone else who was a contender that day... I think the JJJ thing only took off after I went to bed, when Epi came in to push it. Yeah that's how I remember it. After I expressed suspicion that Epi was holding back his vote in order to have some baddie control over the lynch.

So, how does that make me look any better to you? To YOU, who have been nipping at me all game... this information (did I use it right?) should, by rights, be shaping up into a nice little case against me. And yet, when the brass ring is within your grasp, you pull a 180 on it.

What gives? Are you bad?

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:13 pm As for not being nightkilled, I'm not too surprised honestly. When someone is more or less confirmed/generally accepted town, mafia often leave them be for a while because they are likely to be protected or because they don't want to do what is expected and maybe go for another common town read (i.e. Spacedaisy) and, as Epi pointed out, probably someone with an ability they can and want to eliminate (i.e. Spacedaisy).

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:00 pm To be fair, I posted a picture of Edgar Winter only to show the silliness in stating there are only three eye colors. Albinos can have red eyes.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:30 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:00 pm To be fair, I posted a picture of Edgar Winter only to show the silliness in stating there are only three eye colors. Albinos can have red eyes.

Does hazel just count as Brown/Blue/Green to some people?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:44 pm Man, next time I'm bad, I'm gonna push really hard to save random people and make vague weak cases against several people too. Wine for everyone!

Marmot wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:36 am

A NEW DAY

Jack of hearts has been nightkilled.
It is now Day 5. You have ~24 hours to lynch someone.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:02 am Took a quick review of EoD3:

- Speedchuck looks off for jumping on Wilgy to save himself nstead of Jay. Could see a Jay/Speed team-up.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:11 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:03 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:07 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:59 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:32 am I moved my vote to Epignosis because his case rejects common sense.

Like here's an example. Epi was 109% right about Jimmy.

And his case was 110% bullshit. Good Day.

I can't explain why exactly. But the last time I saw someone make this kind of post, it was me. And I was lynched immetiately. And flipped bad.

There is something in it that feels like you are not really happy for the civ victory. You are arguing against it.

I'd argue against this but all I'd be doing is whinging, so I wont. Put short, I'm happy for lynching scum, but Epi's case was no good.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:27 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:13 pm As for not being nightkilled, I'm not too surprised honestly. When someone is more or less confirmed/generally accepted town, mafia often leave them be for a while because they are likely to be protected or because they don't want to do what is expected and maybe go for another common town read (i.e. Spacedaisy) and, as Epi pointed out, probably someone with an ability they can and want to eliminate (i.e. Spacedaisy).

TMI

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:57 am LC is an odd case right now. Still want to gutread him as good. I'm interested in thoughts about how he handled Eloh's read a few posts ago, as well as his readlist that (lol) put Jack as number 1 scumread right before the lynch.

His vote on JJJ, even as he said, looks like posturing but he hasn't taken advantage of it. I think that goes for a lot of current things LC is doing. They look like convenient town or scum tells, but then he keeps hanging lampshades on them. The level of self awareness is throwing me for a wine spiral.

"Actually, my vote on JJJ was worthless"
"I don't know why you're defending me Eloh"
"readlist with Jack as bad RIGHT BEFORE jack dies"

Feels weird. Super honest with a smashing of wine. I keep writing "gut says town" on this post but I'm not sure what my gut says beyond "Urgh I feel terrible."

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:11 am I have have been as crappy as possible this entire game, it seems.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:13 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:11 am I have have been as crappy as possible this entire game, it seems.

I don't know, I might be giving you a run for your money.

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:17 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:40 am If I do end up dead, a few parting words:

~ Any civilians who helped to kill me -- it's alright. I don't blame you. I understand that I have been a different player in this game and that is inherently going to generate suspicion. I'm over it.

~ Second, the activity level in this game has been fantastic to this point. The best thing the civilians can do moving forward is to maintain that through the finish. Do not let this game thread stagnate. That is the single best way to let a mafia team get comfortable.

~ Epi and Jack are full of shit right now. Press them on it when I'm gone. I'd also list Wilgy as a premier suspect.

~ My top town reads are Sloonei, dunya, and Quin.

~ I think speedchuck and malakim handled themselves well in this day phase, particularly toward the end. I'm less thrilled with Long Con.

~ Please at least give my ISOs a look, their primary value is as legacy and that's the whole point.

Three remaining scum.

He names 8 players

Epi, Jack, Wilgy - anitown

sloonei, dunya, Quin - town

speedchuck, mal - positive things

long con - negative things

People he did not name at all in his "legacy post":
Elo
Kyle
insertnamehere
colonialbob
sig
nutella
DDL

Three scum remaining, it's a pick and mix. No way he didn't name all 3 of his team mates in that post and no way he would name all 3.

I'm going to start with the people he not name and list them from least scummy to most scummy in my head as of now, with the exception of insertnamehere (insert angry face emoji here)

sig
DDL
colonialbob
Elo
insertnamehere
Kyle
nutella

I wanted to place insertnamehere in the middle, but I actually feel much better about Elo today after reading some of her past civ games, so I'll place him one spot under here.

Potential suspects from this pool imo are:
INH
Kyle
nutella

I'm a little baffled as to why he didn't name nutella amongst "top town read", or colonialbob in any read, especially after his iso of him, since it's (the fact he didn't means he's not even really paying attention to bob imo, despite being slightly pro-bob all game....). I can't extend that same excuse to nutella, since she's literally been a "top town read" in everyone's lists and she was attacking him all kinds of harsh that eod phase. He couldn't have forgotten about her. He wanted us to forget about her. The one thing that clears nutella slightly for me is how hard Jay went after sprityo (my alter ego) for voting for her! He was hoping to lynch him fast and it all revolved around nutella. I feel awkward about that, because a sprityo lynch would be a town flip; and I don't think he'd want to be that wrong about someone over another scum member.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:26 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:03 pm I'm not caught up but I stopped to read Epis Kyle theory.

I loved it.

Im gonna ISO the fuck out of Kyle tomorrow.

Specifically which part did you "love" about it, because most of it was based on things that were incorrect.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:29 am GTH whenever anyone sees this:

Malakim
Kylemii
Cbob
LC

because my vote is probably going to one of these, and I'm thinking it's one of the first two.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:29 am GTH whenever anyone sees this:

Malakim
Kylemii
Cbob
LC

because my vote is probably going to one of these, and I'm thinking it's one of the first two.

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:15 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:21 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:24 am I feel you, dunya. It's entirely plaisible we all crossed nutella off our lists prematurely. Her behavior before the lynch was what did it for me, though, and not her reaction to it. She seemed to anticipate that a tie would happen. It's possible this was just a gambit that miraculously paid off. But the question of why she's still alive is a good one. I think there are answers thay don't have to involve her being scum, but it's still worth addressing.

If I were bad, I would not have killed nutella. I would have tried to target more dangerous civilian roles. If nutella is Everest, the trait passes down anyway- so it isn't a net gain of anything.

You're forgetting the tie on Jack and Sloonei Day 2. If nutella was Everest, (which we will say is possible for sake of this argument and since you assume she's not being killed because scum think it's not important to kill Everest when K2 inherits their ability, and they could take out other more important roles????----which are never revealed so they never know who they are taking out), Jack would have been clearly lynched vs Sloonei. Since he analyzed that situation as much as Sloonei, I feel he is not Aconcagua or Pico Cristóbal Colón. Plus, 2 empty night kills makes me feel Aconcagua was definitely targeted at night.

Also I completely disagree that taking out Everest and trying to figure out who K2 isn't important. I think they have the most dangerous day roles. Lynch shenanigans are a very important tool for scum. Their priority would be Everest and K2 imo.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:00 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:15 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:21 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:24 am I feel you, dunya. It's entirely plaisible we all crossed nutella off our lists prematurely. Her behavior before the lynch was what did it for me, though, and not her reaction to it. She seemed to anticipate that a tie would happen. It's possible this was just a gambit that miraculously paid off. But the question of why she's still alive is a good one. I think there are answers thay don't have to involve her being scum, but it's still worth addressing.

If I were bad, I would not have killed nutella. I would have tried to target more dangerous civilian roles. If nutella is Everest, the trait passes down anyway- so it isn't a net gain of anything.

You're forgetting the tie on Jack and Sloonei Day 2. If nutella was Everest, (which we will say is possible for sake of this argument and since you assume she's not being killed because scum think it's not important to kill Everest when K2 inherits their ability, and they could take out other more important roles????----which are never revealed so they never know who they are taking out), Jack would have been clearly lynched vs Sloonei. Since he analyzed that situation as much as Sloonei, I feel he is not Aconcagua or Pico Cristóbal Colón. Plus, 2 empty night kills makes me feel Aconcagua was definitely targeted at night.

Also I completely disagree that taking out Everest and trying to figure out who K2 isn't important. I think they have the most dangerous day roles. Lynch shenanigans are a very important tool for scum. Their priority would be Everest and K2 imo.

Imo their priority is Denali, Logan, Elbrus, and Matterhorn. The first three because they have information, actually the most powerful thing civs may have. The later because it is probably hiding some true powerful shit.

Abilities that manipulate vote are not really that important, because at the end of the day they can go either way. Civ roles are only scary when they know where to aim at.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:27 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:13 pm As for not being nightkilled, I'm not too surprised honestly. When someone is more or less confirmed/generally accepted town, mafia often leave them be for a while because they are likely to be protected or because they don't want to do what is expected and maybe go for another common town read (i.e. Spacedaisy) and, as Epi pointed out, probably someone with an ability they can and want to eliminate (i.e. Spacedaisy).

TMI

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:29 pm Mafia is difficult for me. Epi, when you asked me what I think of Jack, it was like trying to do a look-and-find in my brain, tbh. There are so many players, so many components, so much of not knowing where to place who. It's like when you cook in the kitchen and every ingredient is left out after usage. Dirty pots and pans everywhere and utinsils all over the place. When I go into the kitchen to plate the food, I have to find the lid to each container and put everything away, fill the dw with the dirty dishes and clean off the counter tops even before I can plate the food. If I don't, my brain is overwhelmed by the disorganization and I cannot think straight to plate all the components for each person. Jack is like the lid to the oregano seasoning in a sea of kitchen disarray. This is my view of mafia and why it's so difficult for me.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:31 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:29 am GTH whenever anyone sees this:

Malakim
Kylemii
Cbob
LC

because my vote is probably going to one of these, and I'm thinking it's one of the first two.

Bad
Bad
Bad
Civ

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:04 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:12 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:25 am I like the people on JJJ much more, so I'm swtiching over. JJJ

Post 3302.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:17 am also i put my vote back on jay. his ISOs don't sway me much. That's exactly what I'd expect him to do as scum. It's exactly what he always says players, town or scum, should do in the face of pressure. I don't feel like his mesk vote came from a place of sincerity and prior to today I got very little sense that he was trying to solve the game in any capacity.

Post 3287.

My bad, guys. Sloonei voted Jimmy before Bob.

This doesn't look good for Bob.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:08 pm we didn't get a note from K2.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:58 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:56 am

malakim2099 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:04 am A janitor in this game. Very interesting.

Though I suspect the Martian is involved with that. Too many secrets.

Going to bed now, will poke back after some sleep.

The surprise and unawareness of the nightkill mechanics in this game malakim displayed here appear genuine and believable to me. I think he's a townie who believed for a fleeting moment that we had a janitor in this game, or that the nightkill was carried out by Olympus Mons. If he was scum he would have been clued into their target and would presumably be aware of his team's full complement of abilities.

Honestly no. If a scummate of mine has just join ed BTSC I'm not going to give them a rundown of all the possible Syndicate mechanics they might not be aware of. Chances are I won't be aware they don't know about the janitor kill until after they say it themselves.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:26 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:08 pm we didn't get a note from K2.

Does this mean k2 was jack?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:26 pm I hate this argument about ties.

One of Kyle and Jack is bad.

Calling it now.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:26 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:08 pm we didn't get a note from K2.

Does this mean k2 was jack?