The Syndicate

I guess I will have to take your word for what would scare the baddies this game Gman.

Overnight doesn't make me feel any better about you G-Man. Here are the things I don't like about overnight:

You say you wouldn't kill all the people who are after you, because it would make you the most obvious baddie. So when I ask you who you would kill, you end up with a scenario where you go to lylo with JJ and DDL because you would be the most obvious baddie, and play wifom.

And you tell vomps he is your most trusted person, ask him who he suspects more out of me or splints, and when he says me, suddenly I'm at the top of your baddie list when (at least the way I was looking at it) splints was at the top of your list before that. To me it looks like an attempt to go the way you think gives you the most chance at survival, rather than really answering the question 'who is the baddie'.

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Vomps - please please please make an attempt at some longer posts today. I really want to understand more than just what you are doing, I want to understand your perspective on people.

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At this stage, it's safe to say I am not voting splints. No-one has even tried to really be convincing that she is bad overnight, and I'm pretty sure it's because there isn't much of an argument to be had beyond the BR/aether thing around day 2 and 3.

So I'm still leaning heavily towards a G-man vote, probably 80% at this stage, but I don't like that vomps gets away with surviving while saying nearly nothing at all.

^ G, how am I the #2 choice? If you add up everyone's "most likely mafia" rankings so that #1 gets 3 points, #2 gets 2 and #3 gets 1, Golden is second while splints and myself are tied at third.

Vompatti wrote:^ G, how am I the #2 choice? If you add up everyone's "most likely mafia" rankings so that #1 gets 3 points, #2 gets 2 and #3 gets 1, Golden is second while splints and myself are tied at third.

You had me as your third suspect, yet you're now suggesting you would be willing to vote for me.

Vompatti wrote:You had me as your third suspect, yet you're now suggesting you would be willing to vote for me.

But why would you convince them to vote for me as opposed to convincing me and splints to vote for Golden, which should require less convincing and result in lynching a more likely baddie?

I think he is betting on whose mind he can change. Might have some lynch manipulations up his sleeves as well and only need another vote or something

Vompatti wrote:But why would you convince them to vote for me as opposed to convincing me and splints to vote for Golden, which should require less convincing and result in lynching a more likely baddie?

fingersplints wrote:Gman, vomps, golden

Good point. However it wouldn't take much to convince me.

fingersplints wrote:I think he is betting on whose mind he can change. Might have some lynch manipulations up his sleeves as well and only need another vote or something

This is tear my hair out stuff.

This isn't about 'who is easiest to convince'
It's not about 'taking the easy way out'

It's about who is bad and who we each think to be bad.

But I do think you are playing 'who is easiest to convince'.

If you just voted vomps, that wouldn't convince splints or I to vote vomps, and you know it. You'd have to convince us in the thread as WELL as voting for him. By saying you trust vomps, you have a vote who admits he is convinceable. So why deny that this is clearly your best approach if you are bad. It clearly is!

I don't know why you think voting you is the easy way out, either, honestly. There is no easy way out. If we don't get this right today it's probably over. I don't feel at all that voting you is the 'easy way out'. That's why I find incredibly frustrating posts like this.

G-Man wrote:

Why do you think people haven't voted for you yet? I mean, why would FS have voted for you yet? You say it as though you are the 'easy way out' in fact you've been painting yourself that way all day. It's like a form of goading.

Now I have to be gone for up to an hour (meeting set down for an hour, but I'm hoping it's shorter).

I hope that close to the deadline we manage to all be here at once.

I've said myself I always vote late unless agitated. I'm guessing that is what he is trying to do.

We've spent enough time on G-Man, I think. For me, spending more time on him is unhelpful. The only way I would end up voting for someone else is if I think they are more likely bad, and I can only egt to that point by discussing them. What do you think of vomps?

I think he isn't posting much but I get the impression he is at least trying and knows what is going on. More then I usually feel in a game from him. I think sometimes he just follows friends votes and I sometimes get the impression he isn't reading the thread. I don't think I have ever been at (assumed) end game with him like this, so I don't know if he usually gets more focused as the players dwindle. A big part of me believes this is the case. A smaller and more paranoid parts of me wonders if the difference is that this is his bad game and that is what I am not used to seeing as well.

A couple questions for Vomps - can you tell me a recent game where you were a baddie?
And which (if any) other sites have you played at?
I'm just trying to place something atm with these questions

fingersplints wrote:A couple questions for Vomps - can you tell me a recent game where you were a baddie?
And which (if any) other sites have you played at?
I'm just trying to place something atm with these questions

Based on my inbox I haven't been a baddie in any recent game, however I rarely pay any particular attention to what my role is.

I think I played a couple of games at that one other site whose name I don't remember, not the piano one and not the prostitute one, but it's been a while.

Have you paid attention to what your role is in this game?

Yes, to some extent.

Vompatti wrote:

fingersplints wrote:A couple questions for Vomps - can you tell me a recent game where you were a baddie?
And which (if any) other sites have you played at?
I'm just trying to place something atm with these questions

Based on my inbox I haven't been a baddie in any recent game, however I rarely pay any particular attention to what my role is.

I think I played a couple of games at that one other site whose name I don't remember, not the piano one and not the prostitute one, but it's been a while.

Yea, I have some vague memory of being told that when they hosted you as a baddie that they were pleasantly surprised. Almost like you were someone to be watched. So I dont even know for sure it was you though. So I guess where I was going with that is that is what is making me paranoid that what I am seeing now as more helpful Vomps is actually baddie Vomps.

Vompatti wrote:Yes, to some extent.

Given your response to JJJ the other day I would have been worried if your answer was no.

I'm getting so tired I wanted to stay up for the lynch results but it might be tough

fingersplints wrote:I'm getting so tired I wanted to stay up for the lynch results but it might be tough

If I was you in this situation, I wouldn't be able to sleep anyway

I didn't think I would be able to at all lol but I got so little sleep last night.

I see no reason to delay my vote.

A Golden vote would not be out of the question.

I wonder how the rest of the civs would react to that.

So, G-Man: If you really believe I'm bad, I want you to consider this. You too, vomps, if you are genuinely considering a vote for me.

I know that in this game there is no ironclad reason to trust someone, but I think the way this has gone has given people enough reason to trust me.

Birdwithteeth made a lot of you nervous, but if there is one thing you can say for him - and go back and read his posts if you don't believe me - it's that his vote for bass on day one was not an isolated thing out of nowhere. His posts demonstrate a very consistent view of having bass as his number one suspect or very close to. It's as frustrating to me as anyone that he failed to vote on the next two days, and I'm sure that's why he subbed out. He did indicate he would have voted bass on day two, and wifom, but there is no reason for this statement not to be true.

When I came in, Roxy was one of the first people I called out. Now, as it turned out, TH had already raised Roxy before me, but I didn't know this at the time. This is wifom again, you only have my word for that. But I honestly hadn't kept up with the thread after Sloonei's death because Omerta mafia began and I put my focus there instead. So until I read back, I didn't know TH had called her out.

Now, everything else I can understand you can call wifom. You could say that I bussed roxy and bass, you can find tinfoil hat explanations for what I've done.

But I believe you are right when you say it's the early days where you find the baddie connections. Baddies wise up after people start making connections and they stop making those connections. In the early days, I think you can go back and see that those links are not really there for me/BWT - we'd have had to have been throwing our teammates under the bus from day one in a really unnecessary way.

And I also - this is a matter of perception I get - but I also don't think it's at all fair to say I've been the one setting up to make you an easy lynch, G-Man, when I've had you pencilled in as a role for several days and, as of yesterday, voted for a person who said I was their top civilian read instead of you because I believed they were bad and you were not. If this was about what was in my best self-interests, I would have been better off voting you. Even as of last night, I was still saying 'in a vacuum, I'd vote vomps'. I'm not going to say I've had your back, because that's far from true. But I've been legitimately trying to search for the truth on you all along and I've never conducted myself in a way that is designed to set you up for an easy lynch.

If everyone agrees I could settle for not voting.

Negative.

Vompatti wrote:If everyone agrees I could settle for not voting.

Not voting is not going to stop a lynch occurring.

Why would you even suggest that. You think the mafia won't have any vote manipluation?

Golden wrote:Why would you even suggest that. You think the mafia won't have any vote manipluation?

It's likely they have less than the civs.

Vompatti wrote:

Golden wrote:Why would you even suggest that. You think the mafia won't have any vote manipluation?

It's likely they have less than the civs.

But it's not about how much you have, it's about how you use it. We can't collectively plan to use it well.

Golden wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

Golden wrote:Why would you even suggest that. You think the mafia won't have any vote manipluation?

It's likely they have less than the civs.

But it's not about how much you have, it's about how you use it. We can't collectively plan to use it well.

We can if we really put our mind to it.

Yea I am really worried about these lynch manipulations. I wonder who will vote first