Recruitment Mafia IV: Dawn of the Clans (End Game)

[DharmaHelper]

I almost posted in Angry Birds just now asking why everyone was talking about pigs I need some Gatorade.

[Draconus]

I said I was doin it. I did it. Voted Bubbles

[Draconus]

I'd also be down to lynch DP or Devin.

Why?

[birdwithteeth11]

Sorry for the lack of presence lately. Work has been crazy.

But I am here and will be for the rest of the day. I have.....only 17 pages to catch up on.

Going to start on it now.

[Spacedaisy]

I'm not really following the Rico/Lorab ping-pong match. They've had this same back-and-forth going just between the two of them for a couple days now but it appears that everyone else is pretty much ignoring it I'm going to stay out of it until further notice/unless something sways me to one side or the other.

I'm pretty comfortable with a Bubbles vote today. I was hesitant at first because of her meta/history of being lynched as a civ, but the lynch switch would fit with being on a baddie team (both Ubzargan's and Azura's Position 2 abilities could have caused the result) -- there are other possible explanations for sure, but combining that reason with her unsatisfactory posts, I'm inclined to think she's likely bad. Placing my vote on Bubbles.

I'd also be down to lynch DP or Devin. And I'm still suspicious of DH, but he said he had a big case brewing and I am VERY much looking forward to seeing that.

I agree with all of these sentiments. Bubbles response to the lynch read to me like someone trying to act innocent. Most likely reason the lynch was switched was to save her. I'm voting bubbles,

[Turnip Head]

Or the lynch was switched to make us lynch Bubbles again

[Spacedaisy]

Her response to the lynch switch is what makes me feel this is not the case. It was an exaggerated innocent, "I don't know what happened" response that didn't feel genuine to me.

[Ricochet]

What's up with rey? Kinda long the siesta he's taking, innit?

[Roxy]

I stayed home from work and been sleeping all day. Still do feel good. I am afraid I prob won't be doing anykind of catch up today.

Sorry. hosts and fellow players

[Draconus]

I voted Devin as a placeholder.

Vote registered for Devin the Omnipotent

I was wondering when you'd come to your senses

Hey look, I got MovingPictures07 nightkilled by mafia.

This made me giggle. Lol.

[Draconus]

Or the lynch was switched to make us lynch Bubbles again

If that's the case, why not just let her be lynched the first time?? I'm with SD on this one.

[nutella]

I'm not really following the Rico/Lorab ping-pong match. They've had this same back-and-forth going just between the two of them for a couple days now but it appears that everyone else is pretty much ignoring it I'm going to stay out of it until further notice/unless something sways me to one side or the other.

is there a correlation between everyone else staying out of it and you staying out of it?

I mean, probably, yeah Since nobody else has reacted, they seem like they're off in a corner separate from the rest of the thread and I have nothing else to connect them to and I have no urge to side with either one over the other. I'm unclear on their reasons for suspecting each other and I think they could both be neutral. If someone wants to engage with them or defend one side over the other, go ahead, I'd be interested to see where that leads. But since nobody else seems to be invested in that interaction, I'm not really getting anything out of it and find it to be tangential to the main discussion -- and not in a way that I think they're trying to actively derail the thread, just that the two of them are kind of stuck responding to each other and not engaging with other topics much.

[Turnip Head]

Or the lynch was switched to make us lynch Bubbles again

If that's the case, why not just let her be lynched the first time?? I'm with SD on this one.

Because if you have a lynch switch power, why not use it?

[Marmot]

Her response to the lynch switch is what makes me feel this is not the case. It was an exaggerated innocent, "I don't know what happened" response that didn't feel genuine to me.

If she knew what happened, is she supposed to tell us though?

[Draconus]

Or the lynch was switched to make us lynch Bubbles again

If that's the case, why not just let her be lynched the first time?? I'm with SD on this one.

Because if you have a lynch switch power, why not use it?

I guess.

[Marmot]

Or the lynch was switched to make us lynch Bubbles again

If that's the case, why not just let her be lynched the first time?? I'm with SD on this one.

Because if you have a lynch switch power, why not use it?

I guess.

If I had a lynch switch, I would surely use it.

But I would not have picked unfurl.

[birdwithteeth11]

I'm surprised Devin doesn't have more votes. Dude feels like bad news with his "placeholder" vote on himself followed by hopping on the bandwagon of the day. I think he's afraid of ruffling any feathers.

The fact that only one person (Llama) commented on my post re: BWT makes me think I was on the right track there.

Don't really see the cases on either Sorsha or Bubbles.

I overlooked it. I'm not sure I follow; why should BWT omitting Azura's role in his comment imply he knew it was being used on someone not named MP? I am a little troubled by the highlighted bit though -- extreme vagueness.

I don't see anything in the roles for this position about some kind of insanification, forced vote, or any type of posting-altering-related power. So not sure what is going on with MP. I'm starting to wonder if he's trying to prove a point about something.

I wasn't trying to omit Azura. That was an oversight on my part. Sorry if it came off as an omission, because that wasn't my intent.

My vagueness was because I was wondering, at the time, if MP thought the Golden lynch train was ridiculous to some extent, and therefore he decided to vote for Golden and act all zany because he wanted some of the Golden bandwagon voters to reconsider their votes.

[DrWilgy]

*Wilgy twirls around in an office chair*

A Bubbles lynch sounds dumb... Still too busy to explain a better case though. In the meantime Vote registered for Timmer.

[Dom]

Hi everyone.

RIPIYWG MP... I'm glad you're going to have some time off, though.


I'm really at a loss... MP was my top suspect.

[thellama73]

Hi everyone.

RIPIYWG MP... I'm glad you're going to have some time off, though.


I'm really at a loss... MP was my top suspect.

I'll help you. Evaluate... DharmaHelper!

[aapje]

Further uestion to everyone: If Ubzarg did this, do you think or find it more likely that a) Bubbles is part of the team and he openly saved her or b) the situation didn't put himself or his teammates in any danger and he just performed the switch for sport and chaos, just like he locked the thread at a two-way tie point?

If b), do you think him and his teammates still tried to blend in during the Day and hunt or even vote for the main wagons or did they wander off, bringing out other ideas or suspects, sidelining etc.? If Uzbark's action is clear nonchalance, how can we profile him within the thread - or his teammates for that matter, how would they have behaved, knowing they'll totally manipulate the lynch?

I think they would use it regardless, it's not like there is a real downside to it unless they wanted to get rid of TB badly.
I know I'd love to get rid of TB if I had it, medically speaking :P

And I did not twist your words--you said that you might not respond if my post wasn't worthy of your thought process. Which I paraphrased. And if you are thinking that I implied anything more than you implied in the posts I paraphrased, well then, you are the one that is twisting.

Riiight, I can totally follow this
The whole Rico - LR interaction has my head spinning and I have no idea what to make of it. It mostly feels like a pissing contest.

Wow, MM's really not letting go of position 5, whenever it's up on the poll. This time he's the only one currently going that path.

Now that you mention it, he has been campaigning since D0.

JJJ, I read your case on Dom, and I have to side with Dom here. He was not being inconsistent in criticizing MP's hypocrisy while acknowledging his propensity for outbursts. Those are not the same thing.

I agree with this post.

I think spacedaisy has played with MP more than anyone. Congrats on the wedding again, by the way.

Devin, why do you suppose your Golden and Sorsha votes would have been risky as a baddie?

Because at the time of each of my votes I broke a tie between 2 vote-getters. If the people I voted were to be lynched and flipped civ, I would probably be the first person up for questioning. Doesn't mean that I regret either of my votes, though. Just means that it wouldn't have been a very smart or strategic thing for baddie Devin to do.

So you do not regret that Golden was lynched?

MovingPictures07 has been killed by Ubzargan the Ruthless. LoRab was not killed by the Brutal Executioner.

Probably not the worst possible player who could be killed. At least it will save him some stress.

and fair point about not getting others to bring the game to me. i know you will think im acting again, but i said that because i thought the thread moves fast and people would have different questions by the time i posted.

This doesn't make sense to me. Someone pointed out she has played a bunch of games before, was she as evasive in those as she is in this?

@Dom's demeanor has been hovering somewhere around antagonistic, but I've never seen him play a game before. He's been pretty vocal about several people and so far hasn't been successful in catching a baddie (such as Golden, MP and me as examples) which doesn't sit well with me.

How can you be so sure MP wasn't bad? Not saying he was but it's certainly a possibility.

I voted for Jay, and I did it for science. I'll vote for him again though, I think he's been recruited.

What makes you think that?

Sorry for the lack of presence lately. Work has been crazy.

But I am here and will be for the rest of the day. I have.....only 17 pages to catch up on.

Going to start on it now.

I feel for you man

I'm caught up Although I admit to skimming most of the Rico/LR interaction.

[aapje]

@Hosts:
Any/how many missing PMs?
Did you take a screenshot of the N4 votes?

Position 4: Choose three players, nothing can happen at night and none can be lynched the next day

What happens if any of those 3 players receive the most votes?

[Marmot]

@Hosts:
Any/how many missing PMs?
Did you take a screenshot of the N4 votes?

Position 4: Choose three players, nothing can happen at night and none can be lynched the next day

What happens if any of those 3 players receive the most votes?

Oh, that would be interesting if someone was lynched in their place.

But I don't believe we have to worry about that for today at least.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Or the lynch was switched to make us lynch Bubbles again

If that's the case, why not just let her be lynched the first time?? I'm with SD on this one.

Because if you have a lynch switch power, why not use it?

I guess.

I think it's clear cut honestly -- that lynch switch gets used regardless of Bubbles' alignment. If she's bad, it delays her death. If she's not on the team responsible for the switch, then it ensures someone else dies instead AND Bubbles remains a highly likely lynch after that. Two for the price of one.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I switched my vote.

Weird post by TH, not even specifying to whom or why he switched his vote.

I voted for Jay, and I did it for science. I'll vote for him again though, I think he's been recruited.

Talk to me Turnip. Share your feelings with me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm not sure I would agree based on the win conditions:

Civvie group 1 needs to defeat baddie group 1 and 2
Civvie group 2 needs to defeat baddie group 1 and 2
Baddie group 1 needs to defeat civvie group 1 and baddie group 2
Baddie group 2 needs to defeat civvie group 2 and baddie group 1

Each baddie group only needs to eliminate half of the civvies and none of the neutrals, while having to eliminate all of the other baddies. Then take in account they will take over the other team's kill if they are all eliminated and it would make the most sense for them to actively go after the other baddies.

I agree that both baddie teams are actively hunting for one another. I just don't think that's the only motive behind their votes. Self-preservation of their team is paramount and anyone not on it is going to be considered a decent enough lynch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Here's an (unnecessary) updated list of player post links with Bass 2.0 included.

Not unnecessary at all. I just saved a link to this post to my desktop, thank you.

[Spacedaisy]

Or the lynch was switched to make us lynch Bubbles again

If that's the case, why not just let her be lynched the first time?? I'm with SD on this one.

Because if you have a lynch switch power, why not use it?

I guess.

I think it's clear cut honestly -- that lynch switch gets used regardless of Bubbles' alignment. If she's bad, it delays her death. If she's not on the team responsible for the switch, then it ensures someone else dies instead AND Bubbles remains a highly likely lynch after that. Two for the price of one.

I'll repeat here that I suspect get not only because the lynch for switched but because her response to it seemed exaggerated. I would expect her to be all, "I don't know why" but now a paragraph of her going on about how she is so confused and she doesn't know what happened and she em pmed the hosts, etc. It is overkill. It don't feel like a natural civilian response. I think She knows why the lynch got switched, in fact I think it was her teammate that did it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

RIP unfurl ? and i am confused, why did unfurl get lynched and not me,according to the poll i got the most votes...?? if by some miracle im still alive i will be happy to address any questions! somewhat caught up and have time today

Bubbles, everyone seems to regard this post with suspicion and I can see why. It comes across as feigned surprise. I think you might come across like this in general though (no offense intended! ), so I'd like to hear from you.

Why did you think you might still die after it was revealed unfurl was lynched?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'll repeat here that I suspect get not only because the lynch for switched but because her response to it seemed exaggerated. I would expect her to be all, "I don't know why" but now a paragraph of her going on about how she is so confused and she doesn't know what happened and she em pmed the hosts, etc. It is overkill. It don't feel like a natural civilian response. I think She knows why the lynch got switched, in fact I think it was her teammate that did it.

Could you show me exactly which post you're referring to here? If you have a chance could you also highlight direct quotes in it that give you this impression?

[S~V~S]

Or the lynch was switched to make us lynch Bubbles again

If that's the case, why not just let her be lynched the first time?? I'm with SD on this one.

Because if you have a lynch switch power, why not use it?

This~ lulz and if everyone is talking about who was or was not being saved and the same old people, they are not talking about anyone different. If it's a use it or lose it thing, why not go for chaos/thread distraction?

The Bubbles thing does not move me much, other than the bit where she made it sound like she was super involved when she had barely posted. I could see both sides of that, but it WAS a weird thing to say. While I see Roxys point about her, and to an extent agree with it, i am still not sure BR would give a recruiter role to someone unknown to her~ but I could be wrong. In past games pretty much everyone who played was from the same community, so with the melting pot we have here, that may not be the case. Although I suppose she could have been an early recruit.

I'm not sure I would agree based on the win conditions:

Civvie group 1 needs to defeat baddie group 1 and 2
Civvie group 2 needs to defeat baddie group 1 and 2
Baddie group 1 needs to defeat civvie group 1 and baddie group 2
Baddie group 2 needs to defeat civvie group 2 and baddie group 1

Each baddie group only needs to eliminate half of the civvies and none of the neutrals, while having to eliminate all of the other baddies. Then take in account they will take over the other team's kill if they are all eliminated and it would make the most sense for them to actively go after the other baddies.

I agree that both baddie teams are actively hunting for one another. I just don't think that's the only motive behind their votes. Self-preservation of their team is paramount and anyone not on it is going to be considered a decent enough lynch.

I don't particularly agree with this. Any port in a storm, yes, but if they are playing a smart game, there is no storm. And they would HIGHLY prefer a cred lynch. Maybe they will pile on Bullshit day one, but after that, it's a weak baddie who piles on just anyone.

I have to finish reading back, will be back soonish.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm just going to say that "I don't think we should lynch ______ because I don't think BR/LC would have made _______ a recruiter." is a sentence I will never employ again in this game after this post. I think it's a very dangerous perspective and honestly seems contrary to the spirit of Mafia in the first place. Y'all know these hosts better than I do, but

[Ricochet]

I feel incredibly exhausted tonight, despite usually staying up later than this, mostly because of a bad evening jog and because tomorrow I have to show up at work early-ish and stuff. So I'll pick it back up tomorrow.

[S~V~S]

I'm just going to say that "I don't think we should lynch ______ because I don't think BR/LC would have made _______ a recruiter." is a sentence I will never employ again in this game after this post. I think it's a very dangerous perspective and honestly seems contrary to the spirit of Mafia in the first place. Y'all know these hosts better than I do, but

Well, I think all discussions should be on the table. Even if we dismiss them, I don't think we should just blow off any topics of discussion. I know they randomed the roles, and I am not sure how sure I am that they would tweak the results~ I am a fairly good friend of Black Rocks, and I have only been a recruiter when the person ahead of me died. So i doubt they cherry pick totally. But I still don't know that ANY host would give one of 4 power roles to somwonw unknown to them. And I won't discount my personal feelings becasue others may find them dangerous or distasteful.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@JJJ is a person that I haven't wanted to tackle due to his post count, which I know from BoB is the way he usually plays- he asks a lot of questions, he demands a lot of answers, and his Nitpicking skill is a legendary level 99. I'm sorry...I didn't really follow the train of thought in the Boomslang case- I read it over multiple times- multiple times- and never commented on it because I felt stupid, as if I were glossing over something integral to the argument. But the argument was very much localized in a small, logical lapse- I guess you could call it- on Boom's part; a lapse that JJJ latched onto fervently. I'm sure it would have swayed me if it didn't feel like I was taking a Semantics 401 course en route to my Masters in Philosophy. His responses to criticism are calm, collected, and carefully thought out. That could make him very dangerous if recruited by the wrong party. And that troubles me.

The lapse in logic itself wasn't the problem for me -- it was my proposed reason for that lapse (mistake made by Boomslang while fudging suspicion of Golden). Nobody else save for Bullzeye seems to be giving that notion any consideration no matter how I word it, so I might just be wrong. That was my intent though.

I think some people saw the logical breakdowns I used and just assumed I was nitpicking some minor point to an extreme degree, whether as an honest tunneling man or a mal-intended smearer.

@JJJ Do you think you can see what I'm talking about with the qualifications that would make you a dangerous player? I would say you com off super town on the surface level, but I can also see you seeeeeemlessly slipping into badland. Thoughts?

If you think I'm dangerous that's fair. I think that's an irrelevant point though unless you actually observe content in my posts that suggests I might indeed be "slipping into badland". Is that what you see? I could make the same claim about you Scotty -- you're a dangerous player who I think would be able to shift from active-pro civilian neutral to baddie pretty seamlessly. That doesn't mean I actually think you've done that.

[S~V~S]

*someone, holy crap I need to proofread better

[JaggedJimmyJay]

But I still don't know that ANY host would give one of 4 power roles to somwonw unknown to them.

Maybe it's just me, but if I'm hosting this game and the random generator assigns the recruiter roles to 4 first-time players who've never dabbled in Mafia -- I leave it that way.

[S~V~S]

But I still don't know that ANY host would give one of 4 power roles to somwonw unknown to them.

Maybe it's just me, but if I'm hosting this game and the random generator assigns the recruiter roles to 4 first-time players who've never dabbled in Mafia -- I leave it that way.

But you are not hosting this game. So i will discuss it if I please

[JaggedJimmyJay]

But I still don't know that ANY host would give one of 4 power roles to somwonw unknown to them.

Maybe it's just me, but if I'm hosting this game and the random generator assigns the recruiter roles to 4 first-time players who've never dabbled in Mafia -- I leave it that way.

But you are not hosting this game. So i will discuss it if I please

I have no intention of stifling the discussion. I only mean to state my own perspective on the issue. Discuss whatever you like.

[LoRab]

I'm not really following the Rico/Lorab ping-pong match. They've had this same back-and-forth going just between the two of them for a couple days now but it appears that everyone else is pretty much ignoring it I'm going to stay out of it until further notice/unless something sways me to one side or the other.

I'm pretty comfortable with a Bubbles vote today. I was hesitant at first because of her meta/history of being lynched as a civ, but the lynch switch would fit with being on a baddie team (both Ubzargan's and Azura's Position 2 abilities could have caused the result) -- there are other possible explanations for sure, but combining that reason with her unsatisfactory posts, I'm inclined to think she's likely bad. Placing my vote on Bubbles.

I'd also be down to lynch DP or Devin. And I'm still suspicious of DH, but he said he had a big case brewing and I am VERY much looking forward to seeing that.

I love that you call it ping-pong, lol. Because suspiciometer, pings, mafia, yeah. I amuse me, so hey.

I had a really long day at work and a few things come up that prevented me from getting other things done that literally must be done by tomorrow. So, I need to do some work tonight. And I'm exhausted. So I will not be able to do a pong post, so to speak, this evening.

I will say that yes, I'm frustrated that Rico doesn't seem to be willing to think beyond his own thoughts to understand what I'm trying to say and is not seeing an accurate picture of it at all. And I need to figure out how to be more clear. So I think a step back from the whole thing is probably a good thing.

[thellama73]

But I still don't know that ANY host would give one of 4 power roles to somwonw unknown to them.

Maybe it's just me, but if I'm hosting this game and the random generator assigns the recruiter roles to 4 first-time players who've never dabbled in Mafia -- I leave it that way.

But you are not hosting this game. So i will discuss it if I please

I have no problem with you discussing it, but you said ANY host, and I want to point out that I am a host, and I ALWAYS completely randomize roles without tinkering.

[Black Rock]

@Hosts:
Any/how many missing PMs?
Did you take a screenshot of the N4 votes?

Position 4: Choose three players, nothing can happen at night and none can be lynched the next day

What happens if any of those 3 players receive the most votes?

Hello aapje. I do have a screenshot, we'll get it up. We were all high fiving each other and everything but we forgot that.

There were missing PM's... let me count them... oh, I only see one. One missing PM.

[S~V~S]

But I still don't know that ANY host would give one of 4 power roles to somwonw unknown to them.

Maybe it's just me, but if I'm hosting this game and the random generator assigns the recruiter roles to 4 first-time players who've never dabbled in Mafia -- I leave it that way.

But you are not hosting this game. So i will discuss it if I please

I have no intention of stifling the discussion. I only mean to state my own perspective on the issue. Discuss whatever you like.

OK. I guess the way you read to me is as a thread steerer, someone who tries to push the thread in the direction he wants it to go. That takes a strong person, and you appear to be such a person. But steerers make me very very nervous, especially in a game like this with switching affiliation. I am a radical, a protester. I like to push against people who it feels like may be pushing me. Steerers can turn into stiflers, and ask Llama how I feel about stiflers :P

So take me with a grain of salt. But expect me to push back. I like to challenge authority

Linki @ Llama, I am sorry if I was too broad, every host is different.

[thellama73]

Addendum: the reason I do that is to avoid the players being able to guess roles based on their knowledge of my personality.

[Black Rock]

But I still don't know that ANY host would give one of 4 power roles to somwonw unknown to them.

Maybe it's just me, but if I'm hosting this game and the random generator assigns the recruiter roles to 4 first-time players who've never dabbled in Mafia -- I leave it that way.

But you are not hosting this game. So i will discuss it if I please

I have no problem with you discussing it, but you said ANY host, and I want to point out that I am a host, and I ALWAYS completely randomize roles without tinkering.

I use OT because this is not official. Our role assignment process is very complicated. It involves a magic hat, an eight ball, and a Ouija board. We dance outside around a fire (of course we are naked) and ask the Gods to assign them for us. I left out a lot of intricate details, but no one has been disappointed in their roles to this date.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So take me with a grain of salt. But expect me to push back. I like to challenge authority

I encourage that.

I don't feel terribly authoritative though. Not many people seem to agree with anything I've said in the game, for better or for worse. :P

[thellama73]

So take me with a grain of salt. But expect me to push back. I like to challenge authority

I encourage that.

I don't feel terribly authoritative though. Not many people seem to agree with anything I've said in the game, for better or for worse. :P

I don't agree with that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't agree with that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

S~V~S, when you suggest I am a "thread steerer", I'd say you're mostly correct. I don't like to stifle discussions, but I do have a way of directing them -- at least in cultures that know me better. I don't really expect anyone to give a crap about my opinion around here at this point.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

llama, I've been putting off my intent to dig into your ISO. Should I start now? Am I going to find anything troubling? You might as well just tell me now.