The Syndicate

Ricochet wrote:I still hope LoRab didn't actually play into her meta card, by buddying teamie Dom instead of buddying non-teamie Dom, like expected - although...doing that would have gotten her closer to the traditional buddying teamie mistake; still, it sounds like a WIFOM worth playing, the way her game is usually implacable.

Then again, there's always Day 5 for lynching Dom nyeh nyeh neyh

FZ. wrote:Tranq, what do you have to say to all those voting for you? Why are you so unproductive this game? And if you are good, who do you think is bad among your voters?



I'm bothered by the fact llama seems uninvolved in the game. I can't tell if it's a civ tell or a bad one. JJJ, I still don't get why you feel llama is the bigger suspect. Dom has been latching on to others' suspicions a lot, and now he's asking Rico who he would vote for if he could. Question asking Dom never makes me feel very good.


linki: Wait, I admit I didn't read all the posts JJJ quoted. Did Lorab buddy up to llama and Dom, or did she distance them?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:LoRab and thellama73

Spoiler: show

LoRab wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:LoRab and llama have not butted heads over who is the better writer and poster.

confirmed fishy

I don't to butt heads. The market has determined that I am the better writer, since I get paid for it.

I get paid for it, as well. So the market hasn't determined anything.

LoRab wrote:

sig wrote:So zebra was mafia, that most likely means JJJ wasn't on her team. I did see the idea that she picked him, but this makes little sense for day 1. I think it is worth looking into the players who after Rico flipped made comments, like saying how they hope he isn't as spammy or it would be better to have lynched a baddie. I find the first group to almost be trying to weaken Rico's credit thus giving him less of an opinion and basically neutering him, and the second group to just be scummy.

I think a few mafia members were on the Rico wagon, however I also think there is a good chance that either LoRab or Llama are scum.

I don't have many civ or scum reads right know, but I do think Long Con is a civilian, and I'm leaning scum on Llama. Know here is my question do you think the early snipping that Llama and Zebra did was fabricated? It was only a little bit, but I'm curious what people think of it.

I think with Zebra's lynch it also makes it less likely that Mac is on her team.

One last thing, if Roger Rabbit was a civ role last game wouldn't it be odd for it to be a scum role this game? Could this be some sort of seemer/prankster thing? Remember Night 0 scum was able to do actions in theory they could have targeted Zebra and then killed her today. This could be a seemer role where it replaces the scum who used it, just switched the alignment, or let the seemer pick a role.
I think the chances of this are low, but then again the chances of hitting a mafia night 1 is also small.

It is possible that Llama is mafia--I am not.

LoRab wrote:

bea wrote:

LoRab wrote:What the absolute fuck?

I've caught up and holy bandwagon, batman!! Seriously, people.

There is more than one person who voted for me who either hasn't mentioned me at all and should know better (Tranq) or who has never played with me before and can't even give me the benefit to answer votes (motel room). A few others who are somewhere in the middle, but that was the most obvious late lynch bandwagon I have ever seen.

And I agree with others that it was a clear attempt to save a teammate. And noting that he didn't act like a civ who had a save to use during the lynch.

*votes JJJ*

Hi lorab. NIce to see you again. (been waiting for this post in my catsup since I read you missed the vote. All I could think is....well...she's in for a surprise..... )


Pretty clear what you think of JJ - what do you think of the rest that voted you? Who's most likely scum? Who's most likely mislead civ?

Most suspish: JJJ (though not for voting me...mainly because of the bandwagon against me which looked like it was to save him), motel room, Tranq....Golden sort of started the bandwagon, so that concerns me and bumps him up. Although maybe llama, too, for being the next to vote going by the first follower theory.

LoRab wrote:

Ricochet wrote:I did a search of Dom's entire post and have found only a dozen of posts in which the word suspish appears. He himself has used it only once before, in Star Wars.

I now believe Dom is in team with someone who is inadvertedly influencing his word use during their private chatter.

Players who so far who used this word in this game are llama and LoRab.

I don't have BTSC with Dom. We are not on a baddie team together. If he is civ, then we are on the same team.

I will say that suspish is a word that was used a lot on LP and TP, which is where Dom learned to mafia. So it doesn't strike me as odd language from Dom. He also could have picked it up from me during our BTSC time in the last game.

All that said, it's not a word I'd expect to hear from Llama...so...an interesting note to keep in mind.

The first post here is just banter. The next three are all important I think. In response to sig's suspicion, LoRab felt the need to say "llama may be bad but I'm not" instead of just "I'm not bad". In response to bea, she names a number of people she "suspects" on her bandwagon, and at the end tacks on another addendum about llama as a suspect. Then in the last quoted post here it's the same deal.

I think that last post is critically important. Click here to see why from within my Dom review.

Spoiler: show

thellama73 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Voted LoRab for no reason.

I like your line of reasoning.

thellama73 wrote:

HamburgerBoy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

HamburgerBoy wrote:RIP sig, sorry to see that you were town.

Now we just need to make sure that the wave of bandwagoners doesn't stay set in their ways and go back to LoRab again.

Also, the sig flip, taken together with other things, seems to strongly imply there were two intended nightkills night 1, and that DFaraday's death may have been due to something weird/unrelated.

Back?

People have been rumbling about LoRab for a while now, and she still managed a few votes day 1. Considering how many people just showed up to pile on sig, I think there's a decent chance of that happening to LoRab tomorrow if people don't broaden their horizons a bit.

Maybe the fact taht people piled on Sig means that teammates were trying to protect Lorab from her nigh inevitable lynch?

thellama73 wrote:I don't really have an opinion on Lorab at this point. I haven't found the case on her compelling. But I have noticed that sometimes when a person keeps getting almost-lynched and avoiding it, they turn out to be bad.

thellama73 wrote:Okay, I need to read a few people. I haven't given Lorab too much of a look yet, but I feel it's time I did. Epi's instincts are usually good enough not to be ignored. I agree with Rico that FZ's comment about the kills was weird, but I don't know if it's bad weird yet.

thellama73 wrote:Okay, I read Lorab, and while I'm not sold on her being bad, the thing that stuck out to me in her posts was the way she quickly got defensive, and then suddenly switched to "suspect me all you like, I don't care! I'm civ and have nothing to hide!" It's a course correction worth noting.

thellama73 wrote:Switching my vote to Lorab because I'm more familiar with the case on her than with Boomslang and because Epi's instincts are usually good.

Llama never quite provided a substantive read on LoRab. The second last quote is decently close I guess, but it doesn't inspire me. Llama seems to be precariously perched on the fence about LoRab at all times, particularly by the time Day 3.0 rolled around and the lynch became a JJJ/LoRab dichotomy. I've illustrated the duality of his LoRab posts in color. Green represents a pro-LoRab statement, yellow represents a neutral statement, and red represents an anti-LoRab statement. He could be setting himself up for either scenario -- LoRab surviving the attempts at lynching her (allowing him to maintain a semi-positive outlook), or LoRab actually being lynched (allowing him to nod to the red sections of this analysis).

~~~

llama's Day 3.0 vote was for LoRab. On Day 3.5 it was for DharmaHelper. It should be noted that his Day 3.0 vote came before most of the quick counterwagon on LoRab formed. I don't know if he could have foreseen that taking place, and after it did it'd have been hard for him to justify moving his vote again.

~~~

I think this is highly team mate-compatible, and perhaps the most team mate-indicative of any analysis I've done for LoRab interactions. LoRab's posts bear the appearance of sprinkled-in distancing efforts, because they show her talking about llama in a capacity that doesn't strike me as naturally flowing from a mindset to smear a non-team mate. The post I linked that also might implicate Dom is also a heavy factor in this perspective. I think LoRab may have accidentally exposed llama there. Llama's posts only strengthen this read for the reasons I've displayed in colors.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:I still hope LoRab didn't actually play into her meta card, by buddying teamie Dom instead of buddying non-teamie Dom, like expected - although...doing that would have gotten her closer to the traditional buddying teamie mistake; still, it sounds like a WIFOM worth playing, the way her game is usually implacable.

Then again, there's always Day 5 for lynching Dom nyeh nyeh neyh

It's worth noting that this is a meta she literally claimed in this game. I'm not inclined to concern myself with that.

Sorry to put all the pressure on your shoulders Rico, but this lynch might well go whatever way you command it. You have my dream role right now. I'm going to be going to sleep very soon, I just can't justify staying awake for a Mafia game and then going to work on 4 hours sleep.

LoRab wrote:

Ricochet wrote:I did a search of Dom's entire post and have found only a dozen of posts in which the word suspish appears. He himself has used it only once before, in Star Wars.

I now believe Dom is in team with someone who is inadvertedly influencing his word use during their private chatter.

Players who so far who used this word in this game are llama and LoRab.

I don't have BTSC with Dom. We are not on a baddie team together. If he is civ, then we are on the same team.

I will say that suspish is a word that was used a lot on LP and TP, which is where Dom learned to mafia. So it doesn't strike me as odd language from Dom. He also could have picked it up from me during our BTSC time in the last game.

All that said, it's not a word I'd expect to hear from Llama...so...an interesting note to keep in mind.

Ricochet wrote:Did she? I thought it was someone else who said LoRabaddie would buddy civs.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Rico do you sense any internal inconsistencies or bad logic in my reasoning here? I haven't heard any dissenting viewpoints aside maybe from Epignosis. But he just said he disagreed with something, needed more time to talk about it, and then he died.

Ricochet wrote:

juliets wrote:Did anyone notice MM is not on the poll?

...

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Hey guys, don't lynch me please. K thanks.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Because you and I are in the same boat today Rico, except I can vote.

...



goddamn marmot

Metalmarsh89 wrote: Well you know, if you looked at the poll once in a while.

DharmaHelper wrote:My point being I saw the general circumstances behind the LoRab train to be suspect. I pulled the two most suspicious votes as examples in retrospect, but at the time the train as a whole looked sketchy to me due to the quickness with which it formed and the flimsy nature of some of its supporters.

i.e the same point I've made six million times.

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote: Well you know, if you looked at the poll once in a while.

I have no reason to, until someone votes and I have to track it. Y'kno, never being on it and such.

FZ. wrote:Okay, I read it all. Hmm. If I hadn't read your analysis, JJJ, I probably would have said Dom looks more suspicious, though the part where she defends him plays in his favour. But from the voting patterns and the talk about her, Dom comes off worse in my opinion. He keeps saying he will look at her, but never gets to it. In addition, when he jumps all over that piling bandwagon, it's like he's keeping himself from talking about Lorab, and focusing on you and your save. Unlike you, that is what makes me feel the worst about him. He's not defending Lorab, he's trying to make you look bad.
llama did vote for Lorab. Yes, it was early, but it was his decision and even though he sometimes defends her, the bottom line is, that even when he says he hasn't really thought a lot about her, he doesn't use it as an excuse and finds a good reason to why vote for her. I didn't vote her either on day 3.5. I can't fault him for that. There was a lot of craziness going on. That said, I go back and forth on DH, and at the moment, I'm on the civvie side. So the fact he's voting for him, makes me doubt him again.
No idea which is the better vote. I'll go with you if what I said doesn't make you think differently, but tell me what you think.

motel room wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:My point being I saw the general circumstances behind the LoRab train to be suspect. I pulled the two most suspicious votes as examples in retrospect, but at the time the train as a whole looked sketchy to me due to the quickness with which it formed and the flimsy nature of some of its supporters.

i.e the same point I've made six million times.

Gonna vote me some DharmaHelper

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

FZ. wrote:Okay, I read it all. Hmm. If I hadn't read your analysis, JJJ, I probably would have said Dom looks more suspicious, though the part where she defends him plays in his favour. But from the voting patterns and the talk about her, Dom comes off worse in my opinion. He keeps saying he will look at her, but never gets to it. In addition, when he jumps all over that piling bandwagon, it's like he's keeping himself from talking about Lorab, and focusing on you and your save. Unlike you, that is what makes me feel the worst about him. He's not defending Lorab, he's trying to make you look bad.
llama did vote for Lorab. Yes, it was early, but it was his decision and even though he sometimes defends her, the bottom line is, that even when he says he hasn't really thought a lot about her, he doesn't use it as an excuse and finds a good reason to why vote for her. I didn't vote her either on day 3.5. I can't fault him for that. There was a lot of craziness going on. That said, I go back and forth on DH, and at the moment, I'm on the civvie side. So the fact he's voting for him, makes me doubt him again.
No idea which is the better vote. I'll go with you if what I said doesn't make you think differently, but tell me what you think.

The most important thing is this, I think: you agree that based on LoRab's treatment of those two in that one post, it's highly likely one of them is her team mate and the other is not -- regardless of which?

It's a tough call because I think both of them have behaved in a suspicious manner. Llama has been extremely hard to hold a conversation with in this game because he just doesn't respond to things unless you literally scream at him in caps lock. And even then, he doesn't address the point that truly matters -- he hasn't said a word about Dom specifically in light of this case even though I've asked him repeatedly. He has only talked about Dom relative to the usage of the word "suspish" and not relative to LoRab's post. It seems like every conversation I have with him, he's taken the easy way out.

"Do you think I'd have killed Golden?"

"Don't you think I would have cursed Rico?"

"I read you as civilian JJJ because I haven't seen anything to make me think you're bad." as I work diligently to get him lynched

And this is the same conduct that drove Golden to suspect llama. Golden felt llama was only answering pieces of his questions and not addressing the points that actually mattered. This is a telltale sign of fake content and fake contribution. It's how a baddie counts on players who aren't reading things thoroughly to just see the appearance of a mutual and balanced exchange when it's actually quite one-sided.

Ricochet wrote:

FZ. wrote:Tranq, what do you have to say to all those voting for you? Why are you so unproductive this game? And if you are good, who do you think is bad among your voters?



I'm bothered by the fact llama seems uninvolved in the game. I can't tell if it's a civ tell or a bad one. JJJ, I still don't get why you feel llama is the bigger suspect. Dom has been latching on to others' suspicions a lot, and now he's asking Rico who he would vote for if he could. Question asking Dom never makes me feel very good.


linki: Wait, I admit I didn't read all the posts JJJ quoted. Did Lorab buddy up to llama and Dom, or did she distance them?

FZ. wrote:I guess my problem is, I expect baddies to act as I do when I'm bad
I'm not sold on one of them having to be bad because of Lorab talking about both of them. If I were bad with one of them, I'd try to treat them both exactly the same. The fact that she did it differently could have been to make us think one of them is bad if that ever came to the test. It's a WIFOM.

FZ. wrote:What do you think of Dom's suspicions? Do you agree that he keeps voicing others' suspicions. Be it, DH's, LC's and others'?

FZ. wrote:linki: Possible. If you were bad, what would you do instead of either of them?

Ricochet wrote:Fark me, it's going to be a three-way tie, isn't it?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Fark me, it's going to be a three-way tie, isn't it?

llama

Ricochet wrote:#2 is pretty dope elaborated, I must say *claps*

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Fark me, it's going to be a three-way tie, isn't it?

llama

Macbaaaaddddieeeee

MacDougall wrote:I never said I was going to change my vote. Tranq is my vote. I am not changing my vote. Everyone else should also vote for Tranq.

MacDougall wrote:Oh wait I didn't realise we were so close to a fun tie. Reserving the right to change my vote again to cause it.

juliets wrote:Metalmarsh why did you vote DH?

MacDougall wrote:Oh wait I didn't realise we were so close to a fun tie. Reserving the right to change my vote again to cause it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I never said I was going to change my vote. Tranq is my vote. I am not changing my vote. Everyone else should also vote for Tranq.

Your vote is weak sauce.

juliets wrote:oh you changed it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Oh wait I didn't realise we were so close to a fun tie. Reserving the right to change my vote again to cause it.

There's no way you're a civilian.

Ricochet wrote:

motel room wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:My point being I saw the general circumstances behind the LoRab train to be suspect. I pulled the two most suspicious votes as examples in retrospect, but at the time the train as a whole looked sketchy to me due to the quickness with which it formed and the flimsy nature of some of its supporters.

i.e the same point I've made six million times.

Gonna vote me some DharmaHelper

Hiya what sounds unreasonable to you in that quote?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

juliets wrote:Metalmarsh why did you vote DH?

To tease Ricochet. :P

I suppose llama could be bad though.

Linki: atta boy Macbaddie, the real Macbaddie (I'm just imitating the real Macbaddie).

MacDougall wrote:Oh wait I didn't realise we were so close to a fun tie. Reserving the right to change my vote again to cause it.

MacDougall wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I never said I was going to change my vote. Tranq is my vote. I am not changing my vote. Everyone else should also vote for Tranq.

Your vote is weak sauce.

Tranq hasn't really given me much of an option to build a case on him. I am lynching him because he has literally put in no effort to assist the civilians other than offer Ricochet his vote which he could just refuse to do if Rico chooses a scum partner. Defending his behaviour is annoying.

MacDougall wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I never said I was going to change my vote. Tranq is my vote. I am not changing my vote. Everyone else should also vote for Tranq.

Your vote is weak sauce.

Tranq hasn't really given me much of an option to build a case on him. I am lynching him because he has literally put in no effort to assist the civilians other than offer Ricochet his vote which he could just refuse to do if Rico chooses a scum partner. Defending his behaviour is annoying.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I never said I was going to change my vote. Tranq is my vote. I am not changing my vote. Everyone else should also vote for Tranq.

Your vote is weak sauce.

Tranq hasn't really given me much of an option to build a case on him. I am lynching him because he has literally put in no effort to assist the civilians other than offer Ricochet his vote which he could just refuse to do if Rico chooses a scum partner. Defending his behaviour is annoying.

I don't give a shit if it's annoying. There are better cases. You agreed with llama/Dom, and you're voting for a generic lurker.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I never said I was going to change my vote. Tranq is my vote. I am not changing my vote. Everyone else should also vote for Tranq.

Your vote is weak sauce.

Tranq hasn't really given me much of an option to build a case on him. I am lynching him because he has literally put in no effort to assist the civilians other than offer Ricochet his vote which he could just refuse to do if Rico chooses a scum partner. Defending his behaviour is annoying.

So it's Tranq's fault your vote is weak.

Come on Mac, you gotta take responsibility for your actions.