Inception [END]

[Benson]

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

I went to ISO DFaraday after those votes. Then I didn't know what to do with the rest of my minute.

I'm just glad he finally finished checking his role PM

[juliets]

@Long Con as it pertains to TL's reasons for voting Drago, I didn't see anything wrong with those reasons. Were your reasons better? What were they?

I generally suspected him more than 112. He was preoccupied with trying to shape a case around 112 saying he was going to roleplay, even though I don't think 112 ever really did it. His "mindmeld buddies" comment on the Mac TMI thing was cringey as well... what did I say before, like a slick salesman or something?

It was also easy to want to vote for him due to his crap with Evenstar, which I didn't like. I don't know if that was alignment-indicative, but it sure made the vote easier.

Thanks LC, yeah I also felt like he was determined to prove that 112 was coming from a scummy place by trying to set herself up for a "town claim". His persistence in that gives 112 some town points in my mind. I don't really think the Eva stuff was AI, other than the possibility he was trying to appear light-hearted thus towny. Didn't come off that way though.

[Hyena]

Also, I think TLib unintentionally townslipped earlier. I don't want to point it explicitly out right now though, but if you go looking through his D2 posts, you might see it, too. Take it with a grain of salt though.

[Long Con]

@Long Con as it pertains to TL's reasons for voting Drago, I didn't see anything wrong with those reasons. Were your reasons better? What were they?

I generally suspected him more than 112. He was preoccupied with trying to shape a case around 112 saying he was going to roleplay, even though I don't think 112 ever really did it. His "mindmeld buddies" comment on the Mac TMI thing was cringey as well... what did I say before, like a slick salesman or something?

It was also easy to want to vote for him due to his crap with Evenstar, which I didn't like. I don't know if that was alignment-indicative, but it sure made the vote easier.

Thanks LC, yeah I also felt like he was determined to prove that 112 was coming from a scummy place by trying to set herself up for a "town claim". His persistence in that gives 112 some town points in my mind. I don't really think the Eva stuff was AI, other than the possibility he was trying to appear light-hearted thus towny. Didn't come off that way though.

I've never seen Drago be like that before... his flip makes me think it could be some awkward distancing between them, especially when she didn't vote for him.

[Creature]

Well then, pressure away. What do you want to know?

just let me know why i should've found you as v already and some of your general thoughts on us people in the group

that should be simple enough

I'll give some off the top of my head thoughts about people in the group and then ISO myself, though I think my vote timing is the biggest thing. I do not think everyone who voted Drago was necessarily town. Also I really need to ISO some of the group but like I said, here's my top of head thoughts.

Long Con - voted at the last minute for Drago, had just voted 112 6 minutes before. I need an explanation here as I found that very odd. Other than that he has not impressed me as wolf or town so I will ISO him.

TL - I explained late yesterday why he was null to me when the votes were piling on him. Today I'm reading him as town, he voted essentially when I did.

Elephant - I felt good about my conversation with him in the thread where he was encouraging me to take another look at Tony before dismissing him but I know others had an issue with that. Now that Tony has flipped town I will need to re-evaluate our conversation. I like Elephant, he's one of the only people who's made me feel important, so I'm going to have to really set that aside to re-evaluate.

DFaraday - He's not around. I don't like that at this point of the game. Lean scum, seems like he's done this before as scum.

Benson - lean town on Benson. I like his insights they seem very villagery.

vanity - leaning town

Creature - It's been pointed out he was around at EOD but didn't join in which is not good. I really didn't pay a lot of attention to him yesterday because it seemed like he was just reeling off one liners without any depth. I'll ISO him to be fair. Lean scum.

boo - brand new, need him to post before I can evaluate.

Hyena - I don't understand why he was so hell bent on getting a tie. In our games town generally doesn't want a tie. I need to ISO him because I don't have much of a read on him or rather it feels like he was just jumping around a lot like iaafr (maybe not that bad).

nutella - straight up town.

Long Con can get got

TL is townlean yes

Elephant is most likely just an annoying gimmick we'll have to deal somewhere later in the game

DFaraday should go sure

Benson town

vanity town

Yeah, I figured you didn't pay attention for me, I think you were busy pushing an agenda elsewhere

Spiny Creature on a new review can go

hyena I'll give a pass

nutella town

What agenda do you think I was pushing?

Selecting a few players to focus on and not compromise taking other stances

I wasn't limiting myself to just a few, but when I returned to EOD at 4:00 it's true I didn't try to focus on everyone. Can you explain what "not compromise taking other stances" means?

Probably wouldn't want to call potential mislynch baits town or stick your neck on them calling them scum preemptively.

[juliets]

just let me know why i should've found you as v already and some of your general thoughts on us people in the group

that should be simple enough

I'll give some off the top of my head thoughts about people in the group and then ISO myself, though I think my vote timing is the biggest thing. I do not think everyone who voted Drago was necessarily town. Also I really need to ISO some of the group but like I said, here's my top of head thoughts.

Long Con - voted at the last minute for Drago, had just voted 112 6 minutes before. I need an explanation here as I found that very odd. Other than that he has not impressed me as wolf or town so I will ISO him.

TL - I explained late yesterday why he was null to me when the votes were piling on him. Today I'm reading him as town, he voted essentially when I did.

Elephant - I felt good about my conversation with him in the thread where he was encouraging me to take another look at Tony before dismissing him but I know others had an issue with that. Now that Tony has flipped town I will need to re-evaluate our conversation. I like Elephant, he's one of the only people who's made me feel important, so I'm going to have to really set that aside to re-evaluate.

DFaraday - He's not around. I don't like that at this point of the game. Lean scum, seems like he's done this before as scum.

Benson - lean town on Benson. I like his insights they seem very villagery.

vanity - leaning town

Creature - It's been pointed out he was around at EOD but didn't join in which is not good. I really didn't pay a lot of attention to him yesterday because it seemed like he was just reeling off one liners without any depth. I'll ISO him to be fair. Lean scum.

boo - brand new, need him to post before I can evaluate.

Hyena - I don't understand why he was so hell bent on getting a tie. In our games town generally doesn't want a tie. I need to ISO him because I don't have much of a read on him or rather it feels like he was just jumping around a lot like iaafr (maybe not that bad).

nutella - straight up town.

Long Con can get got

TL is townlean yes

Elephant is most likely just an annoying gimmick we'll have to deal somewhere later in the game

DFaraday should go sure

Benson town

vanity town

Yeah, I figured you didn't pay attention for me, I think you were busy pushing an agenda elsewhere

Spiny Creature on a new review can go

hyena I'll give a pass

nutella town

What agenda do you think I was pushing?

Selecting a few players to focus on and not compromise taking other stances

I wasn't limiting myself to just a few, but when I returned to EOD at 4:00 it's true I didn't try to focus on everyone. Can you explain what "not compromise taking other stances" means?

Probably wouldn't want to call potential mislynch baits town or stick your neck on them calling them scum preemptively.

Yeah ok, that's not at all true though.

[Creature]

I'm not sure what to make of Creature acting so defeated already. I think it's genuine frustration, but I suppose that could still be frustration from being a caught wolf.

Posting a ton isn't acting defeated afai recall

After I voted you, you literally said something along the lines of: "why should I even try if I keep getting lynched". Idk how I'm supposed to read that any other way than you acting defeated for pity points.

Whatever, I changed it anyway

[Creature]

Yawn man I'm getting tired of trying to respond each post one by one

[nutella]

What is the bussing culture like on this forum? I know that's a weird question but I've noticed it can differ site to site. For example my home forum - CanucksCommunity - is VERY pro-bussing. Almost so much so that we always expect it. But conversely, MU had way more anti-bus folks in the games I played and it happened less often.

Differs pretty wildly across players and circumstances.

[juliets]

I'm going to put a vote on Faraday. Come play, give us some reads or your thoughts or something.

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

[Long Con]

And what if he doesn't? You guys planning on leaving your votes there until the end of the day?

[Creature]

Has anyone (mainly Nutella & Creature) fully substantiated what you don't like with Spiny. I struggle to find anything bad.

That requires me to go to the OP, select Spiny's ISO and scroll her entire ISO looking for the ideal post that would represent how I feel about her entire ISO.

[Creature]

All I have rn is memoirs of seeing Spiny's posts while she was posting and thinking about them now they look actually scummy

[Creature]

And what if he doesn't? You guys planning on leaving your votes there until the end of the day?

idk

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

[Creature]

Push a different wagon if you don't like it

[Hyena]

And what if he doesn't? You guys planning on leaving your votes there until the end of the day?

I haven't made up my mind yet.

[Benson]

All I have rn is memoirs of seeing Spiny's posts while she was posting and thinking about them now they look actually scummy

Bring me one of these posts. Just one.

[juliets]

@Long Con as it pertains to TL's reasons for voting Drago, I didn't see anything wrong with those reasons. Were your reasons better? What were they?

I generally suspected him more than 112. He was preoccupied with trying to shape a case around 112 saying he was going to roleplay, even though I don't think 112 ever really did it. His "mindmeld buddies" comment on the Mac TMI thing was cringey as well... what did I say before, like a slick salesman or something?

It was also easy to want to vote for him due to his crap with Evenstar, which I didn't like. I don't know if that was alignment-indicative, but it sure made the vote easier.

Thanks LC, yeah I also felt like he was determined to prove that 112 was coming from a scummy place by trying to set herself up for a "town claim". His persistence in that gives 112 some town points in my mind. I don't really think the Eva stuff was AI, other than the possibility he was trying to appear light-hearted thus towny. Didn't come off that way though.

I've never seen Drago be like that before... his flip makes me think it could be some awkward distancing between them, especially when she didn't vote for him.

hmm interesting thought...I'll file it away in hopes that we rejoin the others at some point.

[mention]Benson[/mention] I agree with nutella and LC. I think I've said before I've been on teams where we've bussed and on teams where there was no bussing. I wouldn't say that people on this site steer away from bussing. The last team I had where we didn't buss was because Mac proclaimed at the beginning of wolf chat that this was gonna be easy and we should defend and not bus each other which is what we did.

[juliets]

Has anyone (mainly Nutella & Creature) fully substantiated what you don't like with Spiny. I struggle to find anything bad.

That requires me to go to the OP, select Spiny's ISO and scroll her entire ISO looking for the ideal post that would represent how I feel about her entire ISO.

lol Creature her ISO is all of 1 page long.

[Hyena]

@Long Con as it pertains to TL's reasons for voting Drago, I didn't see anything wrong with those reasons. Were your reasons better? What were they?

I generally suspected him more than 112. He was preoccupied with trying to shape a case around 112 saying he was going to roleplay, even though I don't think 112 ever really did it. His "mindmeld buddies" comment on the Mac TMI thing was cringey as well... what did I say before, like a slick salesman or something?

It was also easy to want to vote for him due to his crap with Evenstar, which I didn't like. I don't know if that was alignment-indicative, but it sure made the vote easier.

Thanks LC, yeah I also felt like he was determined to prove that 112 was coming from a scummy place by trying to set herself up for a "town claim". His persistence in that gives 112 some town points in my mind. I don't really think the Eva stuff was AI, other than the possibility he was trying to appear light-hearted thus towny. Didn't come off that way though.

I've never seen Drago be like that before... his flip makes me think it could be some awkward distancing between them, especially when she didn't vote for him.

WAIT. So that WASN'T normal Drago behaviour? Because I mentioned the possibility that that whole thing between Drago and Eva could have been performed to put distance between themselves.

[juliets]

And what if he doesn't? You guys planning on leaving your votes there until the end of the day?

LC I'm mulling over a couple of others too.

[Creature]

And they don't stop coming

[Long Con]

Push a different wagon if you don't like it

That's not what I meant... I just meant the real possibility that he doesn't appear again, given the current state of his ISO.

[Long Con]

And they don't stop coming

What, the years?

[Long Con]

@Long Con as it pertains to TL's reasons for voting Drago, I didn't see anything wrong with those reasons. Were your reasons better? What were they?

I generally suspected him more than 112. He was preoccupied with trying to shape a case around 112 saying he was going to roleplay, even though I don't think 112 ever really did it. His "mindmeld buddies" comment on the Mac TMI thing was cringey as well... what did I say before, like a slick salesman or something?

It was also easy to want to vote for him due to his crap with Evenstar, which I didn't like. I don't know if that was alignment-indicative, but it sure made the vote easier.

Thanks LC, yeah I also felt like he was determined to prove that 112 was coming from a scummy place by trying to set herself up for a "town claim". His persistence in that gives 112 some town points in my mind. I don't really think the Eva stuff was AI, other than the possibility he was trying to appear light-hearted thus towny. Didn't come off that way though.

I've never seen Drago be like that before... his flip makes me think it could be some awkward distancing between them, especially when she didn't vote for him.

WAIT. So that WASN'T normal Drago behaviour? Because I mentioned the possibility that that whole thing between Drago and Eva could have been performed to put distance between themselves.

I don't usually have the term "mindmeld" in my lexicon, but that's twice for us now I guess.

Also, your pic is more handsome and charming than I would have imagined a hyena could look.

[boo]

So you guys as I'm going through these votes I see people changing votes like every 5 to 10 minutes for a period of time. I don't understand what they are doing. They are not pressure votes because there's not time for the person they voted for to even see it. In some cases others vote right after them and then they change and the other(s) follow. It seems scummy to me but a lot of the people from MU and the champs spec chat are doing it so there's got to be some point here - what is it?

I personally like to do that because I think quickly building up wagons can often yield telling responses. In my experience villagers are much less tentative and will be able to vote at their pleasure without the extra burden of trying to satisfy their wolf-agenda. Having the wagons build up so fast applies pressure and makes it a lot harder on the wolves as they have to simultaneously evaluate where and when they should vote to a) avoid future suspicion, and b) prevent their teammates from dying.

ok I see what you are saying. I've personally never played this way or with others who play this way so it is completely foreign to me (well, I'm used to one or two throwing votes out seemingly randomly but not bunches of people doing it). Normally I am very deliberate about my vote, weighing the evidence and trying to determine if it really warrants a vote. I'll try to loosen up my style to get more in the spirit.

I imagine it likely comes from having a history of playing games where votes couldn't be changed. Even once that norm changed, people tended to continue to play like it hadn't, for the most part. Whereas if you've always played where votes can be changed, it would be easier to have a mindset of moving votes frequently being a strategy that civs are able to build into gameplay to make it harder for mafia. I see the logic, although I'm not sure I can adapt to.

I'd be interested in civ win-rates between the two styles. When last I played, baddies winning more than they should be was a concern for some people in a general sense, is that still an issue here at all?

[boo]

What is the bussing culture like on this forum? I know that's a weird question but I've noticed it can differ site to site. For example my home forum - CanucksCommunity - is VERY pro-bussing. Almost so much so that we always expect it. But conversely, MU had way more anti-bus folks in the games I played and it happened less often.

Varies from player to player. I've had wolf games where we all bus, and games where we all defend each other.

I hate it. Mostly because it has literally never worked for me. I blame DiamondDog. We bussed him hard in Rabbit's King Arthur game (I think we used a kill on him, actually? not even a proper bussing) and our team got wrecked because of it.

[boo]

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

I went to ISO DFaraday after those votes. Then I didn't know what to do with the rest of my minute.

Masturbate 59 times?

[boo]

Has anyone (mainly Nutella & Creature) fully substantiated what you don't like with Spiny. I struggle to find anything bad.

That requires me to go to the OP, select Spiny's ISO and scroll her entire ISO looking for the ideal post that would represent how I feel about her entire ISO.

God forbid people think you're in the game because you actually want to play?

[Long Con]

What is the bussing culture like on this forum? I know that's a weird question but I've noticed it can differ site to site. For example my home forum - CanucksCommunity - is VERY pro-bussing. Almost so much so that we always expect it. But conversely, MU had way more anti-bus folks in the games I played and it happened less often.

Varies from player to player. I've had wolf games where we all bus, and games where we all defend each other.

I hate it. Mostly because it has literally never worked for me. I blame DiamondDog. We bussed him hard in Rabbit's King Arthur game (I think we used a kill on him, actually? not even a proper bussing) and our team got wrecked because of it.

I mean, I once used a kill on myself, so... yeah.

[Long Con]

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

I went to ISO DFaraday after those votes. Then I didn't know what to do with the rest of my minute.

Masturbate 59 times?

Plz bitch I can multitask that shit. Where's my other hand right now...?

[juliets]

What is the bussing culture like on this forum? I know that's a weird question but I've noticed it can differ site to site. For example my home forum - CanucksCommunity - is VERY pro-bussing. Almost so much so that we always expect it. But conversely, MU had way more anti-bus folks in the games I played and it happened less often.

Varies from player to player. I've had wolf games where we all bus, and games where we all defend each other.

I hate it. Mostly because it has literally never worked for me. I blame DiamondDog. We bussed him hard in Rabbit's King Arthur game (I think we used a kill on him, actually? not even a proper bussing) and our team got wrecked because of it.

Oh wow you've brought back to memory one of my favorite games. I was Lady of the Lake (neutral) masoned with a civ. Then we gained bts with Dex who went to Disney and never came back to the site - gone forever, remember that? At the end of the game as I recall I trusted LC and he was an independent and helped the civs win the game. Or else he screwed me and we lost. That happened somewhere along the line with some game, lol.

[juliets]

Sorry guys, back to business.

I'm posting the morning of the second day, October 29th with cumulative totals in case I fall asleep doing the rest of the day.

October 29

am
12:52 - Pawn voted Drago
1:17 - 112 voted Epi
2:42 - nutella voted Eva
3:00 - iaafr voted Epi
3:20 - iaafr voted Michelle
9:39 - Mac voted TSP
11:34 - nutella voted 112

AM Cumulative Vote Count*
Drago (1) - Pawn
Epi (1) - 112
Eva (5) - sprityo, Jack, Texas, Michelle, Quin
Michelle (1) - iaafr
TSP (4) - Benson, Radish, juliets, Mac
112 (5) - Elephant, vanity, Creature, Epi, nutella
Elephant - 0
nutella (3) - LLD, Nanook, Eva
Long Con - 0
Radish - 0
Hyena - Dom
Mac - LC, Drago
Pawn (1) - TSP

*The only 0 votes brought forward are those that were changed to 0 by the morning's votes.

[juliets]

Note: somewhere along the way I have lost a vote for Nanook. I made a post at 12:19 pm Oct. 29th responding to Texas that Nanook had one vote. I don't think it will matter in the over all scheme of things so I'm going to plow forward instead of looking for it.

[Long Con]

What is the bussing culture like on this forum? I know that's a weird question but I've noticed it can differ site to site. For example my home forum - CanucksCommunity - is VERY pro-bussing. Almost so much so that we always expect it. But conversely, MU had way more anti-bus folks in the games I played and it happened less often.

Varies from player to player. I've had wolf games where we all bus, and games where we all defend each other.

I hate it. Mostly because it has literally never worked for me. I blame DiamondDog. We bussed him hard in Rabbit's King Arthur game (I think we used a kill on him, actually? not even a proper bussing) and our team got wrecked because of it.

Oh wow you've brought back to memory one of my favorite games. I was Lady of the Lake (neutral) masoned with a civ. Then we gained bts with Dex who went to Disney and never came back to the site - gone forever, remember that? At the end of the game as I recall I trusted LC and he was an independent and helped the civs win the game. Or else he screwed me and we lost. That happened somewhere along the line with some game, lol.

HOLY CRAP!!!!

That's the game where I was masoned with the Civ squad but also was on the baddie team! That took some massively hectic manipulation, I remember jumping back and forth between chats in the last minutes of the day trying to coordinate night actions just right.

[Long Con]

Is this something you often do, juliets? You are really... busying yourself.

[juliets]

Is this something you often do, juliets? You are really... busying yourself.

Once I did EOD and Hyena asked me for points where there was a tie I realized I needed to know what the totals were coming into EOD. So I just...got hooked and found the voting to be interesting. We caught Drago so I feel like the votes must tell us something. It's worth a try, not a lot going on in the thread.

[Benson]

Is this something you often do, juliets? You are really... busying yourself.

Once I did EOD and Hyena asked me for points where there was a tie I realized I needed to know what the totals were coming into EOD. So I just...got hooked and found the voting to be interesting. We caught Drago so I feel like the votes must tell us something. It's worth a try, not a lot going on in the thread.

I very much appreciate your work

[Benson]

I suppose Creature's reluctance to appease me by actually casing Spiny makes him look more like a villager than anything else

[juliets]

TY [mention]Benson[/mention] and [mention]Hyena[/mention]

I'm starting to see the ties but my eyes are crossing and I'm at a crucial point so I'm going to turn in. Will finish it out early in the morning.



Oh, and there are too many votes on Faraday I think so I'm going to change to TL.

[VOTE: TrustworthyLiberal] aubergine

[juliets]

Hey, am I crazy?! Why has TSP voted in our host area?

[Benson]

Hey, am I crazy?! Why has TSP voted in our host area?

I think it's also for the dead peeps.

[juliets]

I suppose Creature's reluctance to appease me by actually casing Spiny makes him look more like a villager than anything else

I don't understand, you only asked for one quote and her ISO is only one page, lol. But I do think Creature is town, just for a different reason.

[juliets]

Hey, am I crazy?! Why has TSP voted in our host area?

I think it's also for the dead peeps.

Damn, I have lost my mind. Off to bed with me before I do anything else stupid.

[Benson]

[mention]boo[/mention] do you have any thoughts on players in contention for today's lynch yet? Or still getting caught up?

[Benson]

I suppose Creature's reluctance to appease me by actually casing Spiny makes him look more like a villager than anything else

I don't understand, you only asked for one quote and her ISO is only one page, lol. But I do think Creature is town, just for a different reason.

I'm suggesting that his apathy is villagery because he seems unconcerned with how it'll be perceived. I anticipate if he were a wolf he would try to appear helpful to avoid criticism.

[boo]

@boo do you have any thoughts on players in contention for today's lynch yet? Or still getting caught up?

I already voted for Hyena. At the moment, I'm satisfied leaving it there.

[Benson]

Putting my tin-foil hat on and saying that if Elephant is indeed a wolf then he was definitely planting more seeds by trying to get us to doubt our villager reads on the "strong players".

[Benson]

@boo do you have any thoughts on players in contention for today's lynch yet? Or still getting caught up?

I already voted for Hyena. At the moment, I'm satisfied leaving it there.

Is the main reason because he was driving for a tie?

As I've stated, I don't think what he was doing was open-wolfing by any stretch. I fully agree with Hyena's tactic of trying to have tied wagons close to EoD. I don't think anyone literally wanted a tie; we just wanted it to be close to potentially expose some wolves once we see how players flip.

[Benson]

boo, thoughts on the case against TLip (forgive me if you addressed this). Or DFaraday's entrance into this round?