Radiohead Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Hally]

it makes sense alison was the kill target since there’s claimed protection on her but not on mac

or like we shouldn’t assume it necessarily but it’s a reasonable explanation for the missing kill

it would also make radishes town i think unless alison was protected by the lift thing

[Oddmerta]

Lift

This is the place
Sit down, you're safe now
You've been stuck in a lift
We've been trying to reach you, Thom
This is the place
It won't hurt ever again
The smell of air conditioning
The fish are belly up
Empty all your pockets
Because it's time to come home
This is the place
Remember me?
I'm the face you always see
You've been stuck in a lift
In the belly of a whale
At the bottom of the ocean
The smell of air conditioning
The fish are belly up
Empty all your pockets
Because it's time to come home
The smell of air conditioning
The fish are belly up
Let it go
Today is the first day
Of the rest of your days
So lighten up, squirt

That has jailkeeper written all over it

[tedxtr]

This is just white noise, move on

I was just curious

[Alison]

Alright I guess I'll just say it. I was told by Sloonei that I was "stuck in a lift". I asked him what this meant and he said he couldn't answer. When nobody died in the night I figured I was jailkept.

I also considered mafia roleblocker, but since I was a top nightkill target and nobody died in the night, the simplest answer is that I was just jailkept.

Alison, what about MR's claim that he protected you?

The jailkeep claim came before the MR claim. I'm leaning more towards mafia roleblocker now.

[Timsup2nothin]

roleblocker

if town, why would they target alison?

if wolf, why would they target alison if she was the kill target?

A jailkeeper might Target her to protect her, with the roleblock as a 'cost of protection' side effect. But since Radishes claimed to have docced her accounting for the no kill, it is entirely reasonable that the wolves would target her with a role block and the faction kill. It's also possible that a Jailkeeper AND Radishes both targeted her to protect her.

[Hally]

jpic, nanook, and spirit all visited mac in the night. Mac has a post cap today.

nanook claims he visited who he thought was going to be the night kill so he could have an extra vote

jpic claims cop that checked mac villa

Please get in the habit of saying JPIC, Nanook, Sprit and Hally visited Mac.

If JPIC, Nanook, and Sprit all flip green no amount of "but I'm so towny" will change the fact that Hally would be a wolf. A watcher role is actually a common wolf power, from what I've read, and watching Mac in an effort to catch a doctor makes sense.

hally is villa. i have a good reputation in reading them

Well, I'm pretty sure that "Sprit, Nanook, and JPIC all flip green" is never gonna happen, so fine. But if it does all the reputation for Hally reading in the world, added to all the 'towny posts' in the world, will not change the facts.

nook, jpic and sprit flipping town wouldn’t make me a wolf. idk how you arrive at that. also they won’t all be town because someone post capped mac and it wasn’t me

I arrive at that because if they all flip town then yes, someone post capped Mac, and you'd be the only one left. I fully understand that from your POV one of them has to be a wolf, and I expect that one of them is. That foesn't change the view from out here that one of you four absolutely is.

I am totally down for flipping the other three first, so no worries.

well if i was the post capper i wouldn’t have known anything about jpic, nook and sprit unless you assume im a post capper and watcher rolled into one

but this is a pointless discussion because at least one of them will flip scum and clear me

[Alison]

Tim you need to understand that from my perspective the towncore is not only pure but has produced one pelt and had an attempt made on one of its members' lives already. I have very little doubt in the alignments of my towncore and so your constant attempts to undermine it (saying Mac had a shitty EoD and Hally could be the Mafia Watcher) is engendering no trust in you at all from me

[Long Con]

Did Alison claim to be roleblocked last night?

[Hally]

Alright I guess I'll just say it. I was told by Sloonei that I was "stuck in a lift". I asked him what this meant and he said he couldn't answer. When nobody died in the night I figured I was jailkept.

I also considered mafia roleblocker, but since I was a top nightkill target and nobody died in the night, the simplest answer is that I was just jailkept.

Alison, what about MR's claim that he protected you?

The jailkeep claim came before the MR claim. I'm leaning more towards mafia roleblocker now.

could radishes’ thing be the lift thing?

[tedxtr]

Sprityo if you’re a wolf I expect to see an amazing claim, we gave you 40 something hours to come up with one

[dyachei]

idk tim, that seems like a waste? but maybe this team did roleblock her

[Master Radishes]

Oh please say I'm the hero.

That would make up for the fact I've completely fallen out of the game and have no idea what's going on anymore.

[Oddmerta]

Tim you need to understand that from my perspective the towncore is not only pure but has produced one pelt and had an attempt made on one of its members' lives already. I have very little doubt in the alignments of my towncore and so your constant attempts to undermine it (saying Mac had a shitty EoD and Hally could be the Mafia Watcher) is engendering no trust in you at all from me

As if anyone actually trusts him

[juliets]

Alright I guess I'll just say it. I was told by Sloonei that I was "stuck in a lift". I asked him what this meant and he said he couldn't answer. When nobody died in the night I figured I was jailkept.

I also considered mafia roleblocker, but since I was a top nightkill target and nobody died in the night, the simplest answer is that I was just jailkept.

Alison, what about MR's claim that he protected you?

The jailkeep claim came before the MR claim. I'm leaning more towards mafia roleblocker now.

could radishes’ thing be the lift thing?

not if what he said is true about having Nutella's power

[Timsup2nothin]

@DrWilgy so much has happened since that nutella vote long ago. Please take Hally and day's advice!

While I agree that a lot has happened since and also agree that Mac is almost certainly town here, I find it refreshing that Wilgy is acknowledging that Mac had a wolfy EoD; probably the worst after mine. But, y'know, he had "towned it up" so he was towncore and when I pointed out his bad EoD I got the "attack on one is an attack on all" treatment.

mac didn’t have a wolfy EoD at all

Then why did I?

I bought the claim from Nutella. So did Mac.

I presented that claim as justification for not voting Nutella. So did Mac.

I pointed out at SoD that that looked bad for both of us. Mac pointed out "but town core so you are a wolf."

And here we are.

it’s not about believing or disbelieving the claim. it’s about the process he went through to decide he actually didn’t believe it in the end. he was clearly evaluating the claim in real time. also he buried nut the entire day and you didn’t, so equating yourself with him is not really honest

Actually I read through Nutella's ISO and posted my opinion. It's one of those "empty nothing" posts that apparently didn't meet the local standard of towniness. I didn't go all "I can read people by a single post!!! CHARGE!!!" as seems popular here, but I was in fact consistent.

can you link me to that post?

Here is an entire conversation between me and Nutella. Of course since I'm not in the approved town core this is just "scum theater" rather than "things a wolf would just never say."

And of course since I'm not town core no one paid any attention to it at the time so it's no surprise you needed a link to be aware of it.

[Oddmerta]

Oh please say I'm the hero.

That would make up for the fact I've completely fallen out of the game and have no idea what's going on anymore.

Open up notepad, write down what everyone claims as they claim it, I'll share my notes with you so you can be all caught up

[Timsup2nothin]

jpic, nanook, and spirit all visited mac in the night. Mac has a post cap today.

nanook claims he visited who he thought was going to be the night kill so he could have an extra vote

jpic claims cop that checked mac villa

Please get in the habit of saying JPIC, Nanook, Sprit and Hally visited Mac.

If JPIC, Nanook, and Sprit all flip green no amount of "but I'm so towny" will change the fact that Hally would be a wolf. A watcher role is actually a common wolf power, from what I've read, and watching Mac in an effort to catch a doctor makes sense.

hally is villa. i have a good reputation in reading them

Well, I'm pretty sure that "Sprit, Nanook, and JPIC all flip green" is never gonna happen, so fine. But if it does all the reputation for Hally reading in the world, added to all the 'towny posts' in the world, will not change the facts.

nook, jpic and sprit flipping town wouldn’t make me a wolf. idk how you arrive at that. also they won’t all be town because someone post capped mac and it wasn’t me

I arrive at that because if they all flip town then yes, someone post capped Mac, and you'd be the only one left. I fully understand that from your POV one of them has to be a wolf, and I expect that one of them is. That foesn't change the view from out here that one of you four absolutely is.

I am totally down for flipping the other three first, so no worries.

well if i was the post capper i wouldn’t have known anything about jpic, nook and sprit unless you assume im a post capper and watcher rolled into one

but this is a pointless discussion because at least one of them will flip scum and clear me

Postcapping could be a side effect of being watched, for all I know. We'll find that out tonight if it is.

I already said I think you are right and righteous and one of them will flip red...most likely Sprit IMO.

[Oddmerta]

These are the claims so far

Timsup2nothing - scum - antisnowballer claim, (clairvoyant, motion detector on ted)
ted - claims visiting role

Alison - claims "stuck in a lift"
Master Radishes - claims graverobber, used nutella corpse to protect Alison

Dr Wilgy
Dyachei
Dyslexicon
Herm
Juliets
Long Con
Oddmerta
Poison
Samu
staypositivefriend - scum
Tony
tutuu

justplayingitcool - scum - cop claim - N1 macdougall
Spirit - scum - visiting role N1 MacDougall, won't/can't claim
Nanook - visiting role N1 MacDougall claims spotter
Hally - Watcher claim - N1 MacDougall vb Spirit, Jpic, Nanook
MacDougall - N1 not roleblocked, got post capped, can't reveal

[Master Radishes]

Oh please say I'm the hero.

That would make up for the fact I've completely fallen out of the game and have no idea what's going on anymore.

Open up notepad, write down what everyone claims as they claim it, I'll share my notes with you so you can be all caught up

Tbh I don't really care about the mech stuff - I know I can get that from someone at any time and it's not my favourite aspect of Mafia anyway. I mean more that I don't have a good sense anymore of the townieness/scumminess of everyone, as I've missed on reading chunks of the thread and haven't been interacting much which I find integral to get 'into' the game. But I'm aware the towncore seems to be doing well, based on results, and so am not too bothered at the moment about my own lacklustre performance - when the game slows down, should I still be alive, I'll be able to keep up more easily.

[Oddmerta]

Are my notes missing anything?

[tutuu]

Tim you need to understand that from my perspective the towncore is not only pure but has produced one pelt and had an attempt made on one of its members' lives already. I have very little doubt in the alignments of my towncore and so your constant attempts to undermine it (saying Mac had a shitty EoD and Hally could be the Mafia Watcher) is engendering no trust in you at all from me

As if anyone actually trusts him

i townread his stubbornness

he is not playing in a way to be diplomatic / escape the poe

[dyachei]

odd, has anyone told you you might be stuck in a tunnel?

[tutuu]

Are my notes missing anything?

i think that tim's action for last night was "target a player. if they want to do a negative / bad action, roleblock them. otherwise not"

from the way he was talking to ted and telling him "well i hope u have done a good action"

he said the motion detector thing was an intended soft / reaction test

[Timsup2nothin]

Tim you need to understand that from my perspective the towncore is not only pure but has produced one pelt and had an attempt made on one of its members' lives already. I have very little doubt in the alignments of my towncore and so your constant attempts to undermine it (saying Mac had a shitty EoD and Hally could be the Mafia Watcher) is engendering no trust in you at all from me

Yeah, don't care.

If your town core "is pure" then the game is probably a win for me so whether you trust me or not I just don't GAF. What does bother me is that you make these claims about "the pelt is ours" and act like I didn't suspect Nutella as well, because that foesn't fit your pretty picture that people should appreciate the town core. That's gonna lead you to mischops. What bothers me even more is that Oddmerta, for example, has just done nothing in this game other than kiss town core ass, and if he's a wolf he's going the distance because you town core seem to like it so much. That could cost me a win here.

[Oddmerta]

Oh please say I'm the hero.

That would make up for the fact I've completely fallen out of the game and have no idea what's going on anymore.

Open up notepad, write down what everyone claims as they claim it, I'll share my notes with you so you can be all caught up

Tbh I don't really care about the mech stuff - I know I can get that from someone at any time and it's not my favourite aspect of Mafia anyway. I mean more that I don't have a good sense anymore of the townieness/scumminess of everyone, as I've missed on reading chunks of the thread and haven't been interacting much which I find integral to get 'into' the game. But I'm aware the towncore seems to be doing well, based on results, and so am not too bothered at the moment about my own lacklustre performance - when the game slows down, should I still be alive, I'll be able to keep up more easily.

Well that's on you, do better. A fair few of us suspect you to be mafia backup with a graverobber fakeclaim so if i were you I'd fix that and sooner rather than later

[tutuu]

tim = town tim = town tim = town tim = town tim = town tim = town tim = town tim = town tim = town tim = town tim = town tim = town

[Oddmerta]

Are my notes missing anything?

i think that tim's action for last night was "target a player. if they want to do a negative / bad action, roleblock them. otherwise not"

from the way he was talking to ted and telling him "well i hope u have done a good action"

he said the motion detector thing was an intended soft / reaction test

Well he is scum and his claim is bogus so all of that is irrelevant, a townie would of given us the legitness 5 times over by now

[Timsup2nothin]

Alright I guess I'll just say it. I was told by Sloonei that I was "stuck in a lift". I asked him what this meant and he said he couldn't answer. When nobody died in the night I figured I was jailkept.

I also considered mafia roleblocker, but since I was a top nightkill target and nobody died in the night, the simplest answer is that I was just jailkept.

Alison, what about MR's claim that he protected you?

The jailkeep claim came before the MR claim. I'm leaning more towards mafia roleblocker now.

could radishes’ thing be the lift thing?

Dunno...he claims to have stolen Nutella's power, which we have Nut's claim (unreliable), her role flip (which included a redacted portion), and Radishes saying "yeah didn't ask questions." So this is very vague territory.

[tutuu]

Are my notes missing anything?

i think that tim's action for last night was "target a player. if they want to do a negative / bad action, roleblock them. otherwise not"

from the way he was talking to ted and telling him "well i hope u have done a good action"

he said the motion detector thing was an intended soft / reaction test

Well he is scum and his claim is bogus so all of that is irrelevant, a townie would of given us the legitness 5 times over by now

no man he's town

u are right that spf is scum tho. i need ur help there buddy. ur on the wrong train!

[Timsup2nothin]

idk tim, that seems like a waste? but maybe this team did roleblock her

I tend to agree on the waste. On an N1 though what do you do with a roleblocker? Taking a wild shot in the dark at "if thie person IS the doc and they happen to choose our target" is just such a long shot. Block the NK target in case of a self protective role might seem like as good an idea as any.

[tutuu]

Tim you need to understand that from my perspective the towncore is not only pure but has produced one pelt and had an attempt made on one of its members' lives already. I have very little doubt in the alignments of my towncore and so your constant attempts to undermine it (saying Mac had a shitty EoD and Hally could be the Mafia Watcher) is engendering no trust in you at all from me

Yeah, don't care.

If your town core "is pure" then the game is probably a win for me so whether you trust me or not I just don't GAF. What does bother me is that you make these claims about "the pelt is ours" and act like I didn't suspect Nutella as well, because that foesn't fit your pretty picture that people should appreciate the town core. That's gonna lead you to mischops. What bothers me even more is that Oddmerta, for example, has just done nothing in this game other than kiss town core ass, and if he's a wolf he's going the distance because you town core seem to like it so much. That could cost me a win here.

how do u guise not townread the emotion here?

obv i could be wrong, its not rare at all for me to be wrong but like

how is tim obvious scum?

even if he's scum i dont think he's obvious at all?

[Timsup2nothin]

Are my notes missing anything?

No but you've added plenty of your assumptions, at least some of which are wrong.

What is "clairvoyant" by the way, and please point to where I claimed that.

[Timsup2nothin]

odd, has anyone told you you might be stuck in a tunnel?

I don't mind being tunneled...but if someone would notice that it is THE ONLY real thing he does that would be nice.

[tedxtr]

Hey you stole my guise

Also it has never occurred to me that in wolf mashes I could just place a mafia jailkeeper on an spk that’s likely to get healed and I can just strongarm my mafia into a secured kill wow

[tutuu]

Hey you stole my guise

Also it has never occurred to me that in wolf mashes I could just place a mafia jailkeeper on an spk that’s likely to get healed and I can just strongarm my mafia into a secured kill wow

funny i thought u stole it from me!

odd, has anyone told you you might be stuck in a tunnel?

I don't mind being tunneled...but if someone would notice that it is THE ONLY real thing he does that would be nice.

nooo man oddmerta is town too

like, hm. a bit hard to explain.

but like, look at his confidence. he is kinda like ... you? and like, dunno. like he isnt playing in a way to be diplomatic. he's doing his thing

[Oddmerta]

Are my notes missing anything?

i think that tim's action for last night was "target a player. if they want to do a negative / bad action, roleblock them. otherwise not"

from the way he was talking to ted and telling him "well i hope u have done a good action"

he said the motion detector thing was an intended soft / reaction test

Well he is scum and his claim is bogus so all of that is irrelevant, a townie would of given us the legitness 5 times over by now

no man he's town

u are right that spf is scum tho. i need ur help there buddy. ur on the wrong train!

Why can't he be straightforward with us with his role and why is he moving mountains to get scum off the hook? But it's whatever, we'll find out in due time


staypositivefriend is a really interesting case, just sitting there, chill as a cucumber watching all of this go down. Not a care in the world that I suspect or that you suspect her but I can sense the killing intent. Probably laughing at me in the scum chat while sitting in a secret volcano lair on a big swivel seat and stroking a white cat

[Long Con]

Sprityo isn't, iirc, in the mechanical analysis of claims. Can someone please remind me why he's a top suspect? I knew yesterday, but I partied pretty hard last night and I'm a little foggy today.

[Timsup2nothin]

Hey you stole my guise

Also it has never occurred to me that in wolf mashes I could just place a mafia jailkeeper on an spk that’s likely to get healed and I can just strongarm my mafia into a secured kill wow

In some setups jailkeeper is the only thing that can trump a strongman. I'd guess that would be spelled out for a mafia JK and mafia SM situation.

[tedxtr]

Oh lmao if I have strongarm I’m wasting the jailkeeper lmao

I’m going to bed before I get more embarrassed

[Oddmerta]

Are my notes missing anything?

No but you've added plenty of your assumptions, at least some of which are wrong.

What is "clairvoyant" by the way, and please point to where I claimed that.

Yes my notes include my assumptions


Clairvoyant is where you know the numbers of the scums

[Timsup2nothin]

Hey you stole my guise

Also it has never occurred to me that in wolf mashes I could just place a mafia jailkeeper on an spk that’s likely to get healed and I can just strongarm my mafia into a secured kill wow

funny i thought u stole it from me!

odd, has anyone told you you might be stuck in a tunnel?

I don't mind being tunneled...but if someone would notice that it is THE ONLY real thing he does that would be nice.

nooo man oddmerta is town too

like, hm. a bit hard to explain.

but like, look at his confidence. he is kinda like ... you? and like, dunno. like he isnt playing in a way to be diplomatic. he's doing his thing

I disagree. He packages the towncore consensus right back at them, and they LOVE agreement. That's a core element of my wolf strategy.

[dyachei]

Sprityo isn't, iirc, in the mechanical analysis of claims. Can someone please remind me why he's a top suspect? I knew yesterday, but I partied pretty hard last night and I'm a little foggy today.

was seen visiting mac, where a negative action occurred

[Timsup2nothin]

Are my notes missing anything?

i think that tim's action for last night was "target a player. if they want to do a negative / bad action, roleblock them. otherwise not"

from the way he was talking to ted and telling him "well i hope u have done a good action"

he said the motion detector thing was an intended soft / reaction test

Well he is scum and his claim is bogus so all of that is irrelevant, a townie would of given us the legitness 5 times over by now

no man he's town

u are right that spf is scum tho. i need ur help there buddy. ur on the wrong train!

Why can't he be straightforward with us with his role and why is he moving mountains to get scum off the hook? But it's whatever, we'll find out in due time


staypositivefriend is a really interesting case, just sitting there, chill as a cucumber watching all of this go down. Not a care in the world that I suspect or that you suspect her but I can sense the killing intent. Probably laughing at me in the scum chat while sitting in a secret volcano lair on a big swivel seat and stroking a white cat

Gosh, just IMAGINE the number of possible reasons!

[tutuu]

Are my notes missing anything?

i think that tim's action for last night was "target a player. if they want to do a negative / bad action, roleblock them. otherwise not"

from the way he was talking to ted and telling him "well i hope u have done a good action"

he said the motion detector thing was an intended soft / reaction test

Well he is scum and his claim is bogus so all of that is irrelevant, a townie would of given us the legitness 5 times over by now

no man he's town

u are right that spf is scum tho. i need ur help there buddy. ur on the wrong train!

Why can't he be straightforward with us with his role and why is he moving mountains to get scum off the hook? But it's whatever, we'll find out in due time


staypositivefriend is a really interesting case, just sitting there, chill as a cucumber watching all of this go down. Not a care in the world that I suspect or that you suspect her but I can sense the killing intent. Probably laughing at me in the scum chat while sitting in a secret volcano lair on a big swivel seat and stroking a white cat

dunno maybe he cant claim due to restrictions or he wants to be helpful as much as possible so like not revealing EVERYTHING instantly could be hs way of being helpful and like

re: moving mountains to get scum off the hook - fair enough he was wrong about nutella but like

cmon man ive seen villagers be wrong before! u have too probably?

dunno. like read accuracy is not something i personalyl take into account by itself. often. i dont think? like dunno i just think he's town. he's one of the top posters too. like if he is scum with the obvious scums jpic and spritiyo - what is his plan? torment himself by posting 24/7 bashing his head against the brick wall and still losing?

maybe he still is scum but in that case he has a great team / deep wolves or somethgin. dunno i just think he's town!

re: spf - that was a funny analogy! i am mostly just worried that people aren't putting enough respect for spf's scum game / they have literally never seen her play scum so they assume that she can't be incredibly towny?

[tutuu]

Hey you stole my guise

Also it has never occurred to me that in wolf mashes I could just place a mafia jailkeeper on an spk that’s likely to get healed and I can just strongarm my mafia into a secured kill wow

funny i thought u stole it from me!

odd, has anyone told you you might be stuck in a tunnel?

I don't mind being tunneled...but if someone would notice that it is THE ONLY real thing he does that would be nice.

nooo man oddmerta is town too

like, hm. a bit hard to explain.

but like, look at his confidence. he is kinda like ... you? and like, dunno. like he isnt playing in a way to be diplomatic. he's doing his thing

I disagree. He packages the towncore consensus right back at them, and they LOVE agreement. That's a core element of my wolf strategy.

well he's the only one who scumreads spf with me and the rest of the super town core all wants spf to also be super town towncore so i wouldnt say he is completely following the flock!

[Timsup2nothin]

Sprityo isn't, iirc, in the mechanical analysis of claims. Can someone please remind me why he's a top suspect? I knew yesterday, but I partied pretty hard last night and I'm a little foggy today.

The three people seen visiting Mac almost certainly includes a wolf.

Hally is VERY unlikely to be a wolf.
JPIC has claimed alignment cop and there are more town sided ways to determine whether he is a wolf than just turbo chopping.
Nanook has made a dubious but at least somewhat credible claim as to what he was doing there.

Sprityo has reacted...poorly...and was pretty highly suspect beforehand.

[Oddmerta]

Are my notes missing anything?

i think that tim's action for last night was "target a player. if they want to do a negative / bad action, roleblock them. otherwise not"

from the way he was talking to ted and telling him "well i hope u have done a good action"

he said the motion detector thing was an intended soft / reaction test

Well he is scum and his claim is bogus so all of that is irrelevant, a townie would of given us the legitness 5 times over by now

no man he's town

u are right that spf is scum tho. i need ur help there buddy. ur on the wrong train!

Why can't he be straightforward with us with his role and why is he moving mountains to get scum off the hook? But it's whatever, we'll find out in due time


staypositivefriend is a really interesting case, just sitting there, chill as a cucumber watching all of this go down. Not a care in the world that I suspect or that you suspect her but I can sense the killing intent. Probably laughing at me in the scum chat while sitting in a secret volcano lair on a big swivel seat and stroking a white cat

Gosh, just IMAGINE the number of possible reasons!

I do imagine the number of possible reasons and I'm not coming up with anything that makes you a good guy here

[tutuu]

odd and tim i think u two have been at each other throats since like page 5 or page 10 from d1 correct me if im wrong. surely if either one of u was wolf he would get tired of this?

how often do u see deathtunnels be v/v?

its time to KISS and BECOME FRIENDS

[Timsup2nothin]

Are my notes missing anything?

No but you've added plenty of your assumptions, at least some of which are wrong.

What is "clairvoyant" by the way, and please point to where I claimed that.

Yes my notes include my assumptions


Clairvoyant is where you know the numbers of the scums

Yeah, I don't. I know the range based on the conditions of my role. To have the power I had 70-79.9% of the players are civilians.

I actually did HOPE that would allow me to know, but it still came out to a range so wasn't particularly useful. It was something I could share though, so I did.

[dyachei]

would be nice if you both focused elsewhere. there are other wolves around