Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [AMERICA RISES]

[TonyStarkPrime]

Like it’s incredibly arrogant for me to say “it’s impossible for me to even start to reevaluate on Chop let’s just get rid of him” but what else can I do

[Jackofhearts2005]

Are we still at Chop and Rej are both maphier? Anything fun happen in the last 10 pages?

[MartinGG99]

@Kylemii
May I ask why your voting me here when you were voting with me before.

to be more direct my vote for sloonei was out of senseless whimsey and curiousity, my vote for you now is to keep the votes close and see what happens

Seeing this made me realize how many possible vote manipulation or doubling roles there are once I checked for it.

[MartinGG99]

I don't think its possible to accurately fish for that kind of role though, given quite a few are explicitly manipulators, which is what I was checking.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Are we still at Chop and Rej are both maphier? Anything fun happen in the last 10 pages?

Grogu claimed info on Falcon, Falcon claimed info on Alison, Falcon refused to claim, everyone voted for Falcon, Falcon got modkilled, he was town. We’re back to square one

[TonyStarkPrime]

Wait who or what decides ties

[MartinGG99]

Are we still at Chop and Rej are both maphier? Anything fun happen in the last 10 pages?

Falcon got modkilled due to some error or accident.

He was JJJ, claiming Alison was slaver or something.

Before it, Grogu was claiming Falcon was scum due to something mech.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Falcon got modkilled? That sucks. Plus, he was like the role Jay named himself for.

[KZA]

Are we still at Chop and Rej are both maphier? Anything fun happen in the last 10 pages?

Grogu knows Falcon visited Alison last night

Falcon says Alison is 100% the slaver but Falcon isn't claiming

Half the thread is like Falcon is outed mafia for not claiming

Then Falcon was modkilled for unknown reasons and flips JJJ

So Falcon is dead and Alison may or may not actually be slaver but that's not really a concern for me. Grogu is also probably just town

[Jackofhearts2005]

Are we still at Chop and Rej are both maphier? Anything fun happen in the last 10 pages?

Falcon got modkilled due to some error or accident.

He was JJJ, claiming Alison was slaver or something.

Before it, Grogu was claiming Falcon was scum due to something mech.

What's that mean for Alison and Grogu?

Or have we not covered that yet?

[Kylemii]

@Kylemii
May I ask why your voting me here when you were voting with me before.

to be more direct my vote for sloonei was out of senseless whimsey and curiousity, my vote for you now is to keep the votes close and see what happens

Seeing this made me realize how many possible vote manipulation or doubling roles there are once I checked for it.

wait how many

[Kylemii]

wait is jaggedjimmyjay actually named after a fallout 2 character

[Urist]

Wait who or what decides ties

Random, unless a certain Slaver is present, in which case they decide.

[Urist]

wait is jaggedjimmyjay actually named after a fallout 2 character

yes

[Jackofhearts2005]

Are we still at Chop and Rej are both maphier? Anything fun happen in the last 10 pages?

Grogu knows Falcon visited Alison last night

Falcon says Alison is 100% the slaver but Falcon isn't claiming

Half the thread is like Falcon is outed mafia for not claiming

Then Falcon was modkilled for unknown reasons and flips JJJ

So Falcon is dead and Alison may or may not actually be slaver but that's not really a concern for me. Grogu is also probably just town

Bad look for Alison, then. Depending on what the Jay role says.

Back to Luigi's mansion 3

[TonyStarkPrime]

Are we still at Chop and Rej are both maphier? Anything fun happen in the last 10 pages?

Falcon got modkilled due to some error or accident.

He was JJJ, claiming Alison was slaver or something.

Before it, Grogu was claiming Falcon was scum due to something mech.

What's that mean for Alison and Grogu?

Or have we not covered that yet?

Alison, we’re back to square one. Not worth poking the beehive. We don’t know if Falcon actually had anything on Alison so it’s hard to say. Grogu is probably town, the whole thing seemed reasonably executed.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Like if Alison is either alignment she will be shot by VC

[TonyStarkPrime]

So then who cares what she is

[Kylemii]

wait is jaggedjimmyjay actually named after a fallout 2 character

yes

i thought jay just put a self insert character role into the game lol

[Gavial]

I've received a private question, paraphrased below:

Can investigative roles target players who had already been eliminated/killed?

No. Dead players are not targetable in general.

@ChopChop how does this announcement affect your plans?

Did Falcon’s role get revealed?

[MartinGG99]

@Kylemii
May I ask why your voting me here when you were voting with me before.

to be more direct my vote for sloonei was out of senseless whimsey and curiousity, my vote for you now is to keep the votes close and see what happens

Seeing this made me realize how many possible vote manipulation or doubling roles there are once I checked for it.

wait how many

These roles mention some sort of vote effect on one or more of their abilities (colors not 100% accurate):

Vice President Carlson (NCR)
ACE (BOS)
Arthur Pendragon (BOS)
Aunt Morlis (Arroyo)
Hakunin (Arroyo)
Mayor Ascorti (Redding)
Sheriff Marion (Redding)
AHS-7 (Hubologists)
Juan Cruz (Hubologists)
Both Slavers, in separate ways
Chief Amenities Officer Randal (Vault City)

These all add or remove a vote or more.

[MartinGG99]

Jesus that's a lot of vote manipulation for town.

Or a potentially common fake claim.

[Kylemii]

'why did jay invent a character named after himself and make that character a shady drug dealer'

[Gavial]

Falcon got modkilled? That sucks. Plus, he was like the role Jay named himself for.

Are we still at Chop and Rej are both maphier? Anything fun happen in the last 10 pages?

Falcon got modkilled due to some error or accident.

He was JJJ, claiming Alison was slaver or something.

Before it, Grogu was claiming Falcon was scum due to something mech.

Yet people assume JJJ’s check is fake due to no one voting Alison.
Sad, allowing an almost always Slaver (Lost Wolf) to live and legitimately signalled to Tony.

[Gavial]

But yeah let’s just vote Town that sounds great!
Betcha if I survive today, ima just be tunnelled tomorrow.

[Gavial]

And not just by Tony this time.
His friends will join in!

[KZA]

@ChopChop what do you mean lost wolf?

[Gavial]

@ChopChop what do you mean lost wolf?

Solo Scum that wins with other Scum.

[Gavial]

Slaver is against my Win Con.
I need to remove them.
Not sure if other Town can win with them but I can’t.

[MartinGG99]

@ChopChop what do you mean lost wolf?

Solo Scum that wins with other Scum.

So you think TSP is Enclave?

[KZA]

@ChopChop what do you mean lost wolf?

Solo Scum that wins with other Scum.

It's an indie role isn't it?

[Alison]

Falcon got modkilled? That sucks. Plus, he was like the role Jay named himself for.

Are we still at Chop and Rej are both maphier? Anything fun happen in the last 10 pages?

Falcon got modkilled due to some error or accident.

He was JJJ, claiming Alison was slaver or something.

Before it, Grogu was claiming Falcon was scum due to something mech.

Yet people assume JJJ’s check is fake due to no one voting Alison.
Sad, allowing an almost always Slaver (Lost Wolf) to live and legitimately signalled to Tony.

1) JJJ has an incentive to fake a check of Slaver on Elridge. This is because JJJ doesn't care about killing Slaver, but does care about killing Elridge. If anything, JJJ is a role that is more hostile towards Elridge than Slaver, so if JJJ tells you that a player who has claimed Elridge is actually Slaver, it should not be trusted. Conversely, JJJ has no reason to out and draw the mafia shot just to get rid of a Slaver, because a Slaver is no threat to JJJ and killing the Slaver does not help JJJ achieve its win condition. This is why people are not going to just sheep whatever Falcon says about me.

2) Mafia have incentive to shoot me so there's a high chance I get resolved during the night phase anyway.

3) Quote the posts that make you think I'm "signalling" to Tony (who I scumread for all of D1 and much of D2), because you've repeated this point often enough without a single shred of evidence to back it up that I suspect you're using it as a catch-all deflection of the suspicion on you and an excuse to vote park whoever you want (Tony/myself/Sloonei).

[Alison]

Nothing short of a scum-flip that will make me think Chop Chop is scum here. Not even a red-check, though I may end up voting them for that since that could be in some cases the "mechanically correct move" in order to figure how much that cop is lying.

What makes you so sure Chop is town?

[Alison]

Why don't people just read the thread and catch up like a normal person instead of going "oh, Falcon's dead? What did he say?" and making other people summarize for them

[Gavial]

Stop complaining, how do you think your Semi-Scum Counterpart died?

[Gavial]

The other mean gal

[KZA]

Mean Gals

[MartinGG99]

Nothing short of a scum-flip that will make me think Chop Chop is scum here. Not even a red-check, though I may end up voting them for that since that could be in some cases the "mechanically correct move" in order to figure how much that cop is lying.

What makes you so sure Chop is town?

You wouldn't get it.

I've explained it earlier. Basically:

1. He has a good energy and he used emoticons more freely as well as diving into his new town meta more smoothly than I think his wolf game would; Especially in a game where
1a. He's in a near-completely new community of players whom he doesn't know.
1b. This game doesn't exactly always have clear-cut alignments of scumminess and towniness.

2. He's more of a paranoid player in the sense that he's skeptical of players in general more than most but once he gets a read he loves to sometimes unreasonably stick to it, especially scum reads. I would really love to give an example, but I can't for reasons. Anyways, in general I feel a level of towny authenticity in it from Chop Chop.

3. He's the sort of player to make exactly that dumb move earlier as town with respect to the message claim. As a wolf though? I have doubts because that would imply as a wolf he's not very self-conscious (In my view, though this may be debatable). Additionally, with the full message posted, I can see myself forgetting to type a name, and this could be really bad coincidence with the night-kill as he had to remember a large list of names.

[Alison]

Stop complaining, how do you think your Semi-Scum Counterpart died?

Did you just slip that you're Enclave and shot Esooa for questioning people too hard?

[KZA]

LOL

Would love to hear Chop's explanation for that one

[Alison]

Nothing short of a scum-flip that will make me think Chop Chop is scum here. Not even a red-check, though I may end up voting them for that since that could be in some cases the "mechanically correct move" in order to figure how much that cop is lying.

What makes you so sure Chop is town?

You wouldn't get it.

I've explained it earlier. Basically:

1. He has a good energy and he used emoticons more freely as well as diving into his new town meta more smoothly than I think his wolf game would; Especially in a game where
1a. He's in a near-completely new community of players whom he doesn't know.
1b. This game doesn't exactly always have clear-cut alignments of scumminess and towniness.

2. He's more of a paranoid player in the sense that he's skeptical of players in general more than most but once he gets a read he loves to sometimes unreasonably stick to it, especially scum reads. I would really love to give an example, but I can't for reasons. Anyways, in general I feel a level of towny authenticity in it from Chop Chop.

3. He's the sort of player to make exactly that dumb move earlier as town with respect to the message claim. As a wolf though? I have doubts because that would imply as a wolf he's not very self-conscious (In my view, though this may be debatable). Additionally, with the full message posted, I can see myself forgetting to type a name, and this could be really bad coincidence with the night-kill as he had to remember a large list of names.

All these arguments are based on Chop's meta. I think you are town, and I trust you to have a reasonable meta read on Chop. However, I can't get there on Chop being town, even taking into account that you're familiar with his meta, because I have to weigh your testimony about his meta against his (very scummy) behavior in thread and the other reasons that incriminate him (rolefishing in his message to Daisy, leaving out Esooa, etc.).

If you have a more concrete example of Chop being townie that doesn't boil down to "I know Chop and he wouldn't do this as scum", I'd be happy to listen.

[MacDougall]

I just read posts on this page and it seems transparent that Chop isn't mafia

[Grogu]

Are we still at Chop and Rej are both maphier? Anything fun happen in the last 10 pages?

Falcon got modkilled due to some error or accident.

He was JJJ, claiming Alison was slaver or something.

Before it, Grogu was claiming Falcon was scum due to something mech.

What's that mean for Alison and Grogu?

Or have we not covered that yet?

All falcon had to do was not lie. I can’t speak about it any longer. We already mistakenly got a green killed. I’m not going down too.
Let’s move on

[MacDougall]

Wonder what most of this content is about

[MartinGG99]

If you have a more concrete example of Chop being townie that doesn't boil down to "I know Chop and he wouldn't do this as scum", I'd be happy to listen.

Well, to be clear, I'm not arguing we should never chop ChopChop; that's just an ideal of mine that I recognize probably isn't plausible wrt the sensitivity of fX situations and that not most of the town knows him like I do.

I'm just emphasizing what I truly think of him, and what I argue what he most likely is.

Sadly though, what makes him town to me tends to be viewed as really scummy by others as he acts irrationally at times, and its that irrationality that I read into.

The only "non-meta" argument I have is how he has freely used emoticons and the well-known fact that he is new here, though I suppose from a position of not-knowing them that may be stretching.

[Grogu]

Wow Mac is in this game? Where have you been?

[MacDougall]

Chop is either Vault City or one of the light blue town factions. Not Enclave.

Resolving Rej and with it the day 1 wagons is entirely ridiculously optimal. You know this Alison. You are not town.

[MacDougall]

Wow Mac is in this game? Where have you been?

In the bathroom doing a poo

[Grogu]

Mac probably busy in wolf chat. He likes to run shit there, very scary player. He knew everything that was going on in the game.

[MartinGG99]

Wonder what most of this content is about

Just mortal things.

Nothing of your concern.

I'm joking.