The Syndicate

I found her suspucion on me lacking earlier and that's why I asked her for specifics here. She just ignored it

fingersplints wrote:

nutella wrote:Oh wow the case on Hedge is a really really strong one. I think she and splints are both very likely to be on wildhorn. So I'll vote for one of them but I'll wait to see if splints comes back to defend. (Or Hedge too but she seems not to be around?)

Golden, I'm not on team webber. I was highly suspicious of both Sig and Gman by the time each was lynched, and I was fairly vocal about it. For Sig, I may have been on the late side to get to the actual vote, but I had been repeating his name as a suspect for a long time -- I think I was one of the first people to tag onto the case someone (sloonei?) initially made and encouraged pursuing him for a while. For G-man, at first he was just annoying but by the day LC was lynched I was fully convinced that both were bad and wanted to lynch both asap.

I thought the points I have yet to defend are nijuu's angry case I am on team webber, and dfaraday's comment that I am oppurtunistic. Can you point out the wild horn accusations that I haven't addressed that you are supposedly waiting for?

I later corrected myself about which team nijuu's thought, but it's still clear from my "supposedly waiting for" that I did not believe she actually was waiting for any responses.

This was before nijuu's post.

I'm ready to quit screwing around and lynch Neverwhere.

Fair deal. I've only preliminarily looked into the points I raised in my last post. I don't knownhow they'll stand when they're expanded on.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm ready to quit screwing around and lynch Neverwhere.

Neverwhere and ninja both need to go imo.

What do the people who've been paying attention to roles have to say about Jekyll & Hyde? Anything we can say or discern will be largely speculative, but I don't think it will hurt to raise the issue publicly.

Sloonei wrote:What do the people who've been paying attention to roles have to say about Jekyll & Hyde? Anything we can say or discern will be largely speculative, but I don't think it will hurt to raise the issue publicly.

I still think it was bubbles.

Sloonei wrote:I had been trusting of Golden the whole time I was in the game prior to my death, but I have been less a fan of the direction his posts have gone since then. A number of his suspicions have been wrong, and that in itself is enough to raise some alarms. What I find more believable about his account of the end of day proceedings is that he expected Epi to vote for Neverwhere. I would, however, like to hear him explain why he was expecting that particular vote from Epignosis.

Sorry if I implied I was expecting Epi to vote for neverwhere. I wasn't. I wasn't expecting any particular vote from epi, I was just ready to vote neverwhere in case he went nutella.

Cobalt's abrasiveness might have been easier to convey as a mafioso if he knew he'd flip town. I read him as town though.

I mean, somehow he timed it to be literally in the last two seconds of the poll. I don't know how he did that. I was trying to do a mental 60 in my head after the poll ticked over to 3.38. I was only up to about 30 when he voted. I was refreshing every two seconds, I voted instantly. So I was surprised my lase-second vote failed.

Golden, why not just vote for Neverwhere regardless of Epi? It'd have netted the same result.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Cobalt's abrasiveness might have been easier to convey as a mafioso if he knew he'd flip town. I read him as town though.

There is no reason at all to see Cobalt as being on Wildhorn, and no reason to explain what happened on day two either. So I agree he was town.

I think Neverwhere is similar in timing to bubbles death in explaining why Jekyll might have vanished around then. One reason I was initially more hesitant to go with Neverwhere is I was thinking that if she flipped bad, she would probably still just look civ. It was only when Sloonei started making a case for her being Webber that I thought lynching her was worthwhile.

@jj - He said he would break the tie. I wanted to see how he would. Honestly, from my perspective they would always have been my two next votes anyway. I didn't buy the defences you and sloonei made of nutella. But I thought it might be able to tell us something about epi. It still might, if we vote neverwhere and she flips bad, eh?

Epi, you endorsed a lynch of an inactive.

What gives?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Epi, you endorsed a lynch of an inactive.

What gives?

That's...brushing with a broad stroke.

Golden wrote:@jj - He said he would break the tie. I wanted to see how he would. Honestly, from my perspective they would always have been my two next votes anyway. I didn't buy the defences you and sloonei made of nutella. But I thought it might be able to tell us something about epi. It still might, if we vote neverwhere and she flips bad, eh?

And what, pray, might that tell you?

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Epi, you endorsed a lynch of an inactive.

What gives?

That's...brushing with a broad stroke.

You play vaguely, you get broad strokes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Epi, you endorsed a lynch of an inactive.

What gives?

That's...brushing with a broad stroke.

You play vaguely, you get broad strokes.

Er...no. You're not playing vaguely, so you shouldn't be giving anyone broad strokes.

I think you got it backwards, partner.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Epi, you endorsed a lynch of an inactive.

What gives?

That's...brushing with a broad stroke.

You play vaguely, you get broad strokes.

Er...no. You're not playing vaguely, so you shouldn't be giving anyone broad strokes.

I think you got it backwards, partner.

No.

Because you fail to offer any specificity, there can be no specificity in a question or accusation addressed to you.

Answer the question.

I said I would break a potential tie. I broke it in accordance with my own predetermined criteria.

And if you don't like that, then start being more convincing to everyone else so I don't have to break them.

Epignosis wrote:I said I would break a potential tie. I broke it in accordance with my own predetermined criteria.

I don't know if your predetermined criteria is compatible with my win condition.

You might need to go.

Epignosis wrote:And if you don't like that, then start being more convincing to everyone else so I don't have to break them.

You can go ahead shoulder the blame for your own vote, thanks.

I know Epignosis will dislike me for this and I give no shits- if a person is playing for their own interests and passing off responsibility for their own failures to anyone else in the room, then you don't lessen the civilian tally by voting the person out.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I said I would break a potential tie. I broke it in accordance with my own predetermined criteria.

I don't know if your predetermined criteria is compatible with my win condition.

You might need to go.

Well, if you're as good at convincing people to lynch me as you were for lynching Neverwhere, I'm not too concerned.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I know Epignosis will dislike me for this and I give no shits- if a person is playing for their own interests and passing off responsibility for their own failures to anyone else in the room, then you don't lessen the civilian tally by voting the person out.

Is that what you think? That I failed?

I didn't fail.

I broke the tie.

I was successful.

Epignosis wrote:I was successful.

Then your objectives and mine are not going to work together. Let's hope you're dead soon.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I was successful.

Then your objectives and mine are not going to work together. Let's hope you're dead soon.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Based on the work I've done so far, my own gut, and where we stand right now, here's a rainbow:

Sloonei
Epignosis 2.0
fingersplints
nijuukyugou
Golden
Metalmarsh89
Gumshoe
Devin the Omniscient
Spacedaisy
S~V~S
nutella
Neverwhere
DFaraday

Have I gone from the empyrean heights of celestial blue to the hellish nadir of infernal crimson so soon?

Has the god Iso forgotten me, abandoned me to this terrible fate?

Oh cruel world!

Truly there are fates worse than death!









Pff.

Yep. I asked you a pretty simple question that I didn't think you'd struggle to answer. Instead you didn't attempt to answer it, and instead decided to try to get under my skin with irrelevant crap like that right there.

Whatever your alignment, you clearly don't have town interests at heart.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Yep. I asked you a pretty simple question that I didn't think you'd struggle to answer. Instead you didn't attempt to answer it, and instead decided to try to get under my skin with irrelevant crap like that right there.

Your question was, "What gives?"

From someone who said this minutes before the lynch end:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There are valid reasons to suspect nutella. I have suspected her for most of my time in this game. I don't vehemently oppose her lynch.

You hardly have the moral high ground to ask me "What gives?" as though lynching absent(ish) people was at the foremost of my intentions, as though I should have voted with you simply because Neverwhere was less here than nutella.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Whatever your alignment, you clearly don't have town interests at heart.

"Clearly" is an adverb- one of the most dangerous ones. It assumes something is true without knowing all the facts, whilst subtly attempting to get others to believe that something is true when they also don't know everything.

It's a more sinister cousin to "obviously."

EPIG ENTERS FROM THE HOUSE AND SITS IN AN EMPTY SEAT IN THE FRONT ROW.

ENTER SINGER CS.

SINGER:
Sloonei's afraid of water
I mean he tunnels well, but still
He's afraid of water
And so he won't go near the sea
Not me.

MM's afraid of Daisy
I mean he’s spaced and all, but still
He's afraid of Daisy
So when the lights are out he has to vote her out
I have no doubt.

I'm not afraid of mafia
Be they splintsy, Daisy, silence, or corruption
I'm not afraid of indies
Tell me, where's the challenge if you never try?
So watch me fly
I'm not afraid

And I feel the calling of a lynching
And I see the hanging in my eye
The lights are glaring
Civvies blaring
I'm right here
And I hear the calling of tomorrow
And I feel the stirring in my bones
And someone trusts me
He's afraid to show me

Listen to the calling of accusation
Can you hear the plea in what I wrote?
The ropes are ready
Gallows are steady
I can vote.

Never stop the lynching of a baddie
Blessing on the gallows and the ropes
And someone loves me
He's afraid to show me
Someone loves me
He's afraid to show me
They’re afraid to trust me
And they'll always be
They’re afraid of me

But I'm not afraid of anyone
I am sure to win with civvies as my guide
I'm not afraid of anyone
Not a baddie alive can get me on their side
So let them call
And watch them fall
‘Cause after all


A CHANDELIER FALLS ON EPIG

SINGER: I'm not afraid!

SINGER RUNS OFF STAGE.


Epignosis has been killed.
Is is now Day 12. You have 48 hours.

some enchanted lynching (changeable)

Poll ended at Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:38 pm


Bass The Clever
0
No votes
JJJ
0
No votes
Devin
0
No votes
DFaraday
0
No votes
SpaceDaisy
1
Metalmarsh89 (7) 6%
Fingersplints
1
DFaraday (10) 6%
Golden
0
No votes
Gumshoe
0
No votes
MetalMarsh89
1
Spacedaisy (8) 6%
Epignosis 2.0
0
No votes
Neverwhere
3
JaggedJimmyJay (12), Sloonei (13), nutella (14) 17%
nijuukyugou
1
S~V~S (16) 6%
Nutella
4
fingersplints (2), nijuukyugou (4), Golden (17), Epignosis (18) 22%
Sloonei
0
No votes
SVS 2.0
0
No votes
mel brooks (me/dead)
7
Dom (1), Scotty (3), juliets (5), G-Man (6), Heiots (9), Dragon D. Luffy (11), MovingPictures07 (15) 39%
Total votes : 18

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Yep. I asked you a pretty simple question that I didn't think you'd struggle to answer. Instead you didn't attempt to answer it, and instead decided to try to get under my skin with irrelevant crap like that right there.

Your question was, "What gives?"

From someone who said this minutes before the lynch end:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There are valid reasons to suspect nutella. I have suspected her for most of my time in this game. I don't vehemently oppose her lynch.

You hardly have the moral high ground to ask me "What gives?" as though lynching absent(ish) people was at the foremost of my intentions, as though I should have voted with you simply because Neverwhere was less here than nutella.

I never claimed to have any moral high ground, and there is clearly no such implication in the question "what gives?"

I have asked a thousand questions of a great many people in this game, and that was one for you. You had previously stated that you had a desire to lynch players who are inactive, and when given a chance you chose otherwise. I didn't call you mafia or insinuate it was some terrible maneuver. I asked you "what gives?"

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Whatever your alignment, you clearly don't have town interests at heart.

"Clearly" is an adverb- one of the most dangerous ones. It assumes something is true without knowing all the facts, whilst subtly attempting to get others to believe that something is true when they also don't know everything.

It's a more sinister cousin to "obviously."

You think my methods are stupid, and I think your methods are stupid.

Cool?

linki: fitting end to that discussion.

Hedgeowl's back in the tally. Has this been a game-long trend (dead players appearing randomly in the poll)?

Apologies for not being around. I wrote a post earlier but it was nearly unreadable. So many typos. I need to just be in bed.

Epi dying is a surprise. I can't remember if I answered Sloonei's questions. If not, please ask them again tomorrow.

Happy with Neverwhere as the vote but I'm looking at my list of people and I think we need to be having another look at Dfaraday.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hedgeowl's back in the tally. Has this been a game-long trend (dead players appearing randomly in the poll)?

It's like bass. Sometimes dom has forgetten to eliminate dead people from his list by mistake.

Interesting. RIPIYWG Epi
I'm ok with a Neverwhere lynch for today.

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Sloonei wrote: I also plan on looking into him when I can.

When you cut me open with a hatchet?

is that permissible?

What do you think of Neverwhere? Why is your vote on me?

Neverwhere? More like NeverHere amirite?

I don't think of Neverwhere. No opinion. I'll vote to keep it from being a tie, as I've always said.

My vote is on you because you left when I asked you a question. You came back, ignored it, and then when I asked again, you treated it as though it was a joke.

It wasn't a joke.

Well, I did actually post to say that I was going to have to bow out of the game for personal reasons, so I don't know there is surprise

Feel free to lynch me. But prepare to be surprised.

Hmm

I was hoping for more discussion today. I doubt I will be around at all tomorrow. Maybe a little bit before the lynch

fingersplints wrote:Hmm

I was hoping for more discussion today. I doubt I will be around at all tomorrow. Maybe a little bit before the lynch

What did you want to talk about?

Stuff like "who is bad"

I wish Neverwhere would have at least addressed some of the accusations. I do not doubt she has RL issues, but it's hard to believe she isn't bad when she offers no defense whatsoever.

fingersplints wrote:Stuff like "who is bad"

I wish Neverwhere would have at least addressed some of the accusations. I do not doubt she has RL issues, but it's hard to believe she isn't bad when she offers no defense whatsoever.

I don't think this reaction (or lack thereof) has any bearing on her alignment. If I thought I was out of a game and had no intention of returning or catching up, I wouldn't bother to defend myself either way because my heart wouldn't be in it.

That being said, being absent is also not helpful for any alignment, especially civs because either a) the inactive player is civ and not around to baddie hunt and is an easy target for mafia to kill or b) they're mafia and, given our hesitance to lynch inactives here, they can stay alive for quite some time. Anyway, that's my two cents on the matter.

Neverwhere, I hope RL is treating you better and everything is going well! Do whatever you need to do

I re-read Sloonei's case against Neverwhere, which looks mostly based on how she didn't explain her suspicions enough, especially regarding Golden (saying he's "acting different" and that she'll "keep an eye on him" because he's bound to be mafia sometime). Yes, this behavior is fishy. I agree. I might even vote for her because of this, what I said in my last post, and because it's different from what we've been doing for several cycles, which hasn't been working.

What I don't agree with is why Sloonei is so sure Neverwhere is mafia that he stopped in the middle of his ISO to say so, and why he's so sure that people who voted Neverwhere are civilian, based on these observations of her. They're good observations. But they're not so good that you can make such a claim of being "sure," especially of her voters, when there hasn't been any flip. Nutella was wishy-washy, and she flipped civ. You're also so "sure" about me that you have refused to consider what I and others have said in my defense, brushing much of it off with "this is where you and I disagree" and asking for answers to questions I have answered multiple times. I guess what I'm saying is, if you're civ, which I believe you to be, then be careful about what you believe to be "definite," because at least one of those things is wrong. Me. Me! The suspicion of me is wrong! Nothing is sure in mafia except my civvie civvieness and I'm wary of your "sureness."

Question away from that - what do you think of splints, Sloonei? I believe you were leaning civ before, but has anything changed?

Oh look, Phantom of the Opera is back in action.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Oh look, Phantom of the Opera is back in action.

I'm not Phantom of the Opera, or any other baddie. I am civ.

Spacedaisy wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Oh look, Phantom of the Opera is back in action.

I'm not Phantom of the Opera, or any other baddie. I am civ.

You are patently not Phantom of the Opera.

I'm not sure MMs comment was aimed at you, but I also don't understand it. There's never been any point at which phantom was inactive?

I'm alive.

Sloonei, I want you to read the flavor text in Dom's post with the Epi kill and then report back how it has affected your perspective of the game.

General question for Syndicate regulars: roles with the ability to resurrect others, are they typically civilian? associated with a more exotic independent role? or anything else?

Usually civvie, but I've seen rezz/recruit situations before

fingersplints wrote:Usually civvie, but I've seen rezz/recruit situations before

Would this mean a player is resurrected by an anti-civilian faction and immediately recruited into their ranks? Such a theory would seem consistent with both the resurrection-friendly and recruitment-friendly personality of this setup.

Is there any reason to assume the holder of the singer role must be civilian?

I'm trying to work out a few things that might help me either eliminate suspects or overhaul my perspective of this setup.