[ENDGAME] The Office Mafia

[Dom]

Are we really only going to have 13 votes in?

[DrumBeats]

Too safe of a response. What's your lean on him. Civ or toaster?

this seems like a dumb excuse to invalidate his argument without actually engaging it; "if you don't like the conversation, change the subject."

Huh? What was his argument? SVS asked if he thought Quin was civ, and indiglo responded by saying that he doesn't know anybody's alignment. The thing that stuck me about that post is that indiglo made no argument. I asked him to provide a lean.

His argument in protection of Quin and against BWT and SVS.

Not the one I just quoted in disagreement to. That was a straight up "I don't know". How was I invalidating her protection of Quin by saying that his neutral response was too safe and I wanted a lean?

I was just worried that you were going to say that because Indi was vague on Quin's alignment, therefore his protection of Quin shouldn't be taken seriously.

Nah fam, but I am likely going to vote for Quin, because I haven't seen a reason for the protection other than finding BWT a better option.

[insertnamehere]

Nah fam, but I am likely going to vote for Quin, because I haven't seen a reason for the protection other than finding BWT a better option.

Maybe not finding Quin's statements to be as manacle-poppingly scandalous as SVS and BWT make them out to be?

Also, what's your opinion on a Mister DrWilgy?

[insertnamehere]

meant to say monocle-poppingly scandalous, not monocle-popping.

[DrumBeats]

Nah fam, but I am likely going to vote for Quin, because I haven't seen a reason for the protection other than finding BWT a better option.

Maybe not finding Quin's statements to be as manacle-poppingly scandalous as SVS and BWT make them out to be?

Also, what's your opinion on a Mister DrWilgy?

I don't find them scandalous either, but I find the lack of baddie hunting to be telling.

I don't like the fact that the meta is apparently so similar to his baddie game, but having not been a part of that game, I don't feel strongly enough about it to push that lynch today.

[insertnamehere]

Nah fam, but I am likely going to vote for Quin, because I haven't seen a reason for the protection other than finding BWT a better option.

Maybe not finding Quin's statements to be as manacle-poppingly scandalous as SVS and BWT make them out to be?

Also, what's your opinion on a Mister DrWilgy?

I don't find them scandalous either, but I find the lack of baddie hunting to be telling.

I don't like the fact that the meta is apparently so similar to his baddie game, but having not been a part of that game, I don't feel strongly enough about it to push that lynch today.

The case isn't really solely based on meta tho. He's being an erratic aggressive player who's tactics aren't in the realm of what I'd call civ like behavior.

Take a look at my post history, or his, and read some of the cases and the back and forth. I'm not condemning him for meta reasons, I'm condemning him because I think he's scum. And I think there's a lot more to it than Quin's lack of baddie hunting.

[DFaraday]

Finally caught up.

I don't necessarily find Quin's statements/actions suspicious, since I get what he was trying to say. It can be beneficial to the town to do things besides directly lynching baddies. In this particular case I don't think Quin's fixation on Pam is particularly helpful, but I don't find him overtly suspicious because of it.

I will be *voting Wilgy* because his voting logic was weak and the follow-up with INH has left me feeling that INH was more genuine. Also, it's been brought up that this is apparently reminiscent of baddie Wilgy in earlier games.

[sig]

I'm here and voting for INH. Based on my earlier suspicions.

[DrumBeats]

Nah fam, but I am likely going to vote for Quin, because I haven't seen a reason for the protection other than finding BWT a better option.

Maybe not finding Quin's statements to be as manacle-poppingly scandalous as SVS and BWT make them out to be?

Also, what's your opinion on a Mister DrWilgy?

I don't find them scandalous either, but I find the lack of baddie hunting to be telling.

I don't like the fact that the meta is apparently so similar to his baddie game, but having not been a part of that game, I don't feel strongly enough about it to push that lynch today.

The case isn't really solely based on meta tho. He's being an erratic aggressive player who's tactics aren't in the realm of what I'd call civ like behavior.

Take a look at my post history, or his, and read some of the cases and the back and forth. I'm not condemning him for meta reasons, I'm condemning him because I think he's scum. And I think there's a lot more to it than Quin's lack of baddie hunting.

I'll go back and look again, but my experience with Wilgy is that he is an erratic aggressive player as a civ.

[insertnamehere]

I'm here and voting for INH. Based on my earlier suspicions.

I'm gonna ask you the same thing I asked timmer. Can you further elaborate on those suspicions so that I can elaborate on them?

[Elohcin]

My show went longer than I thought b/c someone likes to take piss breaks :P I don't have time to catch up on the last page or so...so voted Quin for that really suspicious post.

[Epignosis]

My show went longer than I thought b/c someone likes to take piss breaks :P

[Dom]

Downsizing

DrWilgy has been lynched.
He was Creed Bratton.
You have 24 hours to make a selection and get your PMs in.

[Dom]

Who's Getting the Axe?

Poll ended at Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:28 pm


bea
0
No votes
birdwithteeth11
2
rabbit8 (15), indiglo (16) 10%
Bullzeye
0
No votes
Cobalt
0
No votes
DFaraday
0
No votes
Drumbeats
0
No votes
DrWilgy
5
leetic (6), insertnamehere (8), Quin (11), Epignosis (13), DFaraday (18) 25%
Elohcin
0
No votes
enrique
0
No votes
Epignosis
0
No votes
fingersplints
0
No votes
Goldy
1
Scotty (5) 5%
insertnamehere
3
timmer (7), DrWilgy (12), sig (19) 15%
leetic
0
No votes
LoRab
0
No votes
Matt
0
No votes
Quin
4
S~V~S (9), birdwithteeth11 (10), DrumBeats (17), Elohcin (20) 20%
rabbit8
0
No votes
Scotty
1
Matt (14) 5%
Serge
0
No votes
sig
1
Zeus (4) 5%
Sorsha
0
No votes
Spacedaisy
0
No votes
SVS
0
No votes
timmer
0
No votes
Zeus
0
No votes
Niall Horan
3
Dom (1), Golden (2), G-Man (3)

[insertnamehere]

so, no alignment reveal after death?

bummer

[insertnamehere]

also it's Creed Bratton

[Dom]

also it's Creed Bratton

I am the suck at spelling/pronouncing

[insertnamehere]

tbh, I think that Creed is a fairly odd and slightly menacing character that I could see being scum or independent at the very least.

we don't even know how the baddies are grouped, if it's people from corporate like Robert California and Kathy Bates or something else entirely.

I'm not gonna say I was wrong just yet

[insertnamehere]

Here's an example of Creed's behavior on the show:

[DrumBeats]

Yeah, INH, I reread it and don't find anything alignment indicative outside of meta. And Wilgy's claim on the meta thing would make me have to go back to the AoT thread, and examine his interactions with Zebra there which I don't want to do, so yeah.

@ linki - RIP Creed


If the old list is to be somewhat trusted, mafia is corporate, meaning Creed would be civ. Independent at worst because of how odd he is, but he would logistically fit in no group of scum.

Not thrilled with INH's "I might have been right," especially the timing of it. First you asked "No alignment reveal huh?" then after Dom responded to another post and it was clear there wasn't going to be alignment reveal, THEN you post that. Not before. Great way to dodge responsibility for your stake in the mislynch.

[insertnamehere]

I still honestly think it's too soon to call it a mislynch.

[LoRab]

Ugh.

And Creed is listed on the first page under civies, so I'm thinking that's a pretty clear indication that he was civ.

Sorry for missing the vote--I thought I'd be back to my computer in time to vote, but dinner took longer than planned.

I'd have likely voted for Quin, because he is encouraging people to post statements that from my read of Dom's answer, Pam wouldn't be able to check--as they are not based on factual information that the poster has, but on opinion. Theorizing incorrectly and not telling the truth are not at all the same thing.

[Dom]

Ugh.

And Creed is listed on the first page under civies, so I'm thinking that's a pretty clear indication that he was civ.

Sorry for missing the vote--I thought I'd be back to my computer in time to vote, but dinner took longer than planned.

I'd have likely voted for Quin, because he is encouraging people to post statements that from my read of Dom's answer, Pam wouldn't be able to check--as they are not based on factual information that the poster has, but on opinion. Theorizing incorrectly and not telling the truth are not at all the same thing.

Because this is predicated on my answer to a question, let me clarify my answer.

"The Theme Song is a secret role" is a checkable statement.

"I think The theme Song is a secret role" is not a checkable statement.

[insertnamehere]

Damn. Looks like Wilgy was civ. RIP dude. Now I know never to read you Day 1.

[DrumBeats]

Found this gem in the role list - apparently its been updated

"Creed – Creed is weird. Creed has probably committed murder before. He also has put printer ink in his hair. He can choose one person per night and know who they targeted. "

It was a mislynch.

List of characters who have held a position in the departments we can vote for:

Accounting:
-Angela
-Oscar
-Kevin
-Hannah

Customer Service:
-Kelly
-Devon (supplier relations)


Sales:
-Jim
-Dwight
-Phyllis
-Andy
-Todd Packer
-Karen
-Stanley

@ linki - LoRab just pointed it out.

[DrWilgy]

Oh... RIP me. Good luck everyone!

[insertnamehere]

Found this gem in the role list - apparently its been updated

"Creed – Creed is weird. Creed has probably committed murder before. He also has put printer ink in his hair. He can choose one person per night and know who they targeted. "

It was a mislynch.

List of characters who have held a position in the departments we can vote for:

Accounting:
-Angela
-Oscar
-Kevin
-Hannah

Customer Service:
-Kelly
-Devon (supplier relations)


Sales:
-Jim
-Dwight
-Phyllis
-Andy
-Todd Packer
-Karen
-Stanley

@ linki - LoRab just pointed it out.

From the looks of that list, Sales looks like it would yield the most info.

[LoRab]

Ugh.

And Creed is listed on the first page under civies, so I'm thinking that's a pretty clear indication that he was civ.

Sorry for missing the vote--I thought I'd be back to my computer in time to vote, but dinner took longer than planned.

I'd have likely voted for Quin, because he is encouraging people to post statements that from my read of Dom's answer, Pam wouldn't be able to check--as they are not based on factual information that the poster has, but on opinion. Theorizing incorrectly and not telling the truth are not at all the same thing.

Because this is predicated on my answer to a question, let me clarify my answer.

"The Theme Song is a secret role" is a checkable statement.

"I think The theme Song is a secret role" is not a checkable statement.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm finding this confusing, but my brain is fried and I'm exhausted, so I'll trying thinking this through again in the morning.

[indiglo]

RIP both Wilgy and Creed.

That clip from the Halloween party was hilarious, but Creed is definitely civ, as per Dom.


Other than that, I must say, I quite like the idea of discussing possible targets or ideas for night actions in the thread. It seems that something that tends to plague civs here is not working together enough. I don't think it would be a terrible idea to offer thoughts / options / opinions as to how various civs could use their night actions. Obviously, no one would be obligated to listen to those suggestions (and I certainly wouldn't advocate outing the actual intended targets specifically)... but I don't see the harm in trying to pool our powers. That's what helps baddies so much, they can discuss in BTSC who they want to target, etc. I don't see why we shouldn't do something similar in thread.

I guess in a closed set up game such as this, it's difficult to do so due to not actually knowing powers, but I still think it's a good idea moving forward. Too many times we get wrapped up in our own theories (and I'm including myself here too) and get too stubborn and dug in on our own ideas. If we can get past that from as early on as possible, it'd be nifty. Also, I think as the game goes on, seeing what suggestions different players make for targets and such could be extremely helpful in sussing out the baddie team(s). Suppose player X keeps suggesting certain targets, then player X gets lynched and flips bad (or good)... that could tells us a fair bit about their suggested targets as well. These are just some musings. Have gone full on Matt yet?


As for the night vote here, I have no idea because I have no knowledge of the show. I'll wait till more people have chimed in, and will try to be a team player with that.

[Dom]

Ugh.

And Creed is listed on the first page under civies, so I'm thinking that's a pretty clear indication that he was civ.

Sorry for missing the vote--I thought I'd be back to my computer in time to vote, but dinner took longer than planned.

I'd have likely voted for Quin, because he is encouraging people to post statements that from my read of Dom's answer, Pam wouldn't be able to check--as they are not based on factual information that the poster has, but on opinion. Theorizing incorrectly and not telling the truth are not at all the same thing.

Because this is predicated on my answer to a question, let me clarify my answer.

"The Theme Song is a secret role" is a checkable statement.

"I think The theme Song is a secret role" is not a checkable statement.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm finding this confusing, but my brain is fried and I'm exhausted, so I'll trying thinking this through again in the morning.

I am getting further questions via PM, so let me clarify further.

If someone frames something as a theory, it is NOT checkable. The context matters.

If someone claims something, that is checkable.

[timmer]

See you next time, Wilgy

[Scotty]

Just got home. RIP Wilgy.

Goin back to comb through the day's goings on.

OMG! Dr.Wiggly.... I know you!


Is that the same Scotty I played with before on Mafia Universe?


SIGURD! COME! Give me some reads.. Help me out.

I think so- from the Disney Chaos game, probably?

Epi - If you were forced to vote for Scotty or FS who would you vote for?

Scotty.

Why is this? Where did this come from?

Scotty I'm surprised you didn't vote for me tbh. Do you think others should?

Sorry I didn't answer this before the vote.
Are you really surprised? Because I was patently choosing to ignore you, as a good civ should. I would be pretty remiss to vote you on the grounds of an accusation, let alone on Day 1, when we might as well all be covered in sheets going around guessing each other's shoe sizes. That's not how I operate on Day 1. Which leads to:

Sorry all I'm doing construction (of all things lol) all day today and zipping over on a date to see Independence Day right after. So I'm not gonna be around much at all leading up to EoD

I've skimmed the past few pages and only have a few things to say:
-Where is Matt? People have been answering for him, which he has expressly said he doesn't like other people doing for other people.
-Wilgy, don't you think that acting the same way as your bad self in another game could be perceived as alignment indicative? Like, just a little? This is like bubble gum bursting in your face, looking in the mirror and going, "I'm still beautiful", tossing back that lock of hair back and saying 'screw the haters!' In other words, this could just be Wilgy being Wilgy. Or it could be Wilgy misspeaking himself into a corner.
-Goldy has yet to check in, and honestly that is where my vote is going right now. Day 1's gonna Day 1, and I think suspicions will make more sense when we see a flip.

vote Goldy

I hope to check back in before EoD, but can't promise it

If you think suspicions will make more sense when we see a flip, why vote for someone with zero interactions with other players to make sense of?

and

I was looking forward to coming in here and putting a vote on Splints but Scotty's post where he eggs me on about Wilgy defending me and then goes on to vote Goldy after sussing me for several days...hrm. I think that's weird and I don't like it.

and

@ Scotty - I am not sure about your vote for Goldy. I understand its a no show issue, but if she is on the civ side, then don't we want to keep her, active or not. The role she owns has the possibility of being replaced which could give us help in the future. Voting for a no-show on day one seems like an excuse a baddie would make for voting someone.

Ok. look. I feel like a broken record ad infinitum every game I play, but:
I'm firstly an analytic person. If I'm not seeing a surefire suspicion on Day 1, and there is no no-lynch option, I'm going to vote for a no-show.
Why do I do this? Well, instead of going roundabout on speculation of he said/she said when we're introducing ourselves, by voting for a no show, there is no harm no foul. What you might call dodgy or evasive I call smart playing.

Look at it this way: If a person who has added to discussion on Day 1 is mislynched because they added to discussion, we just lost a person that could add to discussion. A=A because A=A. But by eliminating a player that may or may not come in or participate (I dunno what Goldy's deal is here, but my point is general), the worst case scenario is we lose a civ that wasn't helping our cause anyway. BUT best case? They may have been mafia. This was actually the case in a recent game I played, where that MIA player was mafia, and was replaced later, but we could have caught them early, and still had a talkative town base.

Now that we have a voting record, I do better looking at what was said, who was potentially saved, or was spaced out, or...what have you. Super secret Scotty stuff

So in essence, in any capacity my day 1 votes for no-posters and low posters are not alignment indicative. Actually, it stems from a time where I was voted off or killed 3 TIMES IN A ROW on day 1 or night 1. I got tired of that, and changed my strategy so I could get past that hump. I will continue to do it on Day 1's in future games, and if you still find that suspicious, feel free to lynch me. But I'ma be upset if you do.

If you still have any questions concerning my day 1 shenanagins, please email me at Scotty4handy@dundermifflin.com

[Quin]

Hey, I'm alive!

I didn't enjoy voting Wilgy (rip) and would have loved to jump on the BWT wagon had I seen it being developed as an alternative. I agree that it was opportunistic.

If Pam were to check my earlier statement about the consequences of lynching me I'd feel better, even if it only means one person knowing for sure I'm a civ. But yeah, weigh your options.

Voting Sales, because why not.

[Scotty]

+10 points to Gryffindor!

Matt, you're the only one throwing around suspicions, and we're not even into Day 1 yet

I still don't understand what this means from your pov or why it was said. Later on, you go on to "correct" someone who accused you of sussing me, and yet this post shows you sussing me...I think. Again I'm not sure what the point was to this post.

Hrm.

Linki - Lol SVS I was actually thinking the same thing when he gave those three example detect sentences...like wut?

My heart says vote FS, my brain says Scotty. Both of them are probably wrong LOL

I did (and still do) suspect you. But not enough to vote for you Day 1.
If you think I was actually defending SVS with the purpose of actually defending her from your suspicion, then does that mean you think SVS is bad?
Harping on splints and I for clarifying game mechanics via SVS could be a baddie tactic. But it could also be a non-alignment indicative Matt tactic. At this point I think you are bad, and after reading through your subsequent posts you are currently my number one suspect.

I'm glad you admit you are probably wrong on both FS and I while voting for me Day 1. I don't know about splints' alignment, but your confidence in your confusion is astounding.

Also...you have more 'Hrms' than 'Derps' this game. Should I be worried?

[Scotty]

I'm wondering if I should vote for Goldy out of left field.

I do think Scotty's bad and if I think he's bad, then I think it's possible he would vote for his own no show teammate just cuz he knows nobody would follow him (I base this on other games where Scotty votes for a low poster Day 1 and they never get lynched).

Hrm.

Anyway, have to go for a bit but I'll be back by deadline.

Someone mentioned it, but if you thought I was bad, why even bring up voting Goldy as an option? This makes about as much sense as putting motor oil in your smoothie because the voices inside your head said it would make you drive better.

Or as a better option, you could have voted for Goldy like you said you would and I wouldn't feel as inclined to come down on you. But here we are.

Anyway, I'm switching my vote to Wilgy, for self preservation purposes.

You don't want to lynch me, because alignment aside, if I am lynched, the mafia will be given a significant advantage over the town in the next night phase.

#supatown
#plznokill
#trumpcard
#savemepam and Erin
#iwarnedyou
#skinnedsalmon
#toomanyhashtags

I have to go to a birthday thing now. I apologise in advance if you lynch me.

Are you role claiming?

Dom has given the okay for that statement. No rules are broken in saying it!

Wait what does this even mean? Are you just saying "lalala I'm a townie so townies will be down a townie next cycle which will give an advantage to mafia"? Because that's a pretty convoluted way to go about explaining that. And if Dom says it was ok to say it...uh...doesn't that mean you're not on the townie side?
Am I reading too much into this?

[Quin]

Specifying the night phase would, I think, infer more than just a dead townie. Dom gave the okay because it didn't break the info dumping rule.

[Scotty]

Are we really only going to have 13 votes in?

Yowza. Well that means Meredith is boozing up 2 people tomorrow out of:
bea
Bullzeye
Enrique
fingersplints
Goldy
LoRab
Serge
Sorsha
Spacedaisy


Oh, also hello indiglo!

[Scotty]

Specifying the night phase would, I think, infer more than just a dead townie. Dom gave the okay because it didn't break the info dumping rule.

That's as clear as mud. If it weren't in our best interests to lynch you because the town needs you, and it's not info dumping...how...can you be town aligned?

[Scotty]

EBWOP: I guess you can't really answer that, so that's kind of unfair. BUT why even make a threat like that?



ALSO.

Can someone explain to me why leetic voted Wilgy early in the day without saying why and vanishing into mist? That pings me really hard. He has 5 posts, all saying nothing of worth.

[Quin]

Specifying the night phase would, I think, infer more than just a dead townie. Dom gave the okay because it didn't break the info dumping rule.

That's as clear as mud. If it weren't in our best interests to lynch you because the town needs you, and it's not info dumping...how...can you be town aligned?

You should ask Dom to clarify his rules if you're confused, I think. He would do a much better job of explaining what is considered as info dumping to him than I would.

[Elohcin]

I am going to go with Customer Service tonight.

[leetic]

I am going to go with Customer Service tonight.

Why are you posting such fluffy, non-game-related stuff this late in? Surely you have something else to talk about?

[insertnamehere]

I am going to go with Customer Service tonight.

Why are you posting such fluffy, non-game-related stuff this late in? Surely you have something else to talk about?

You do realize she was talking about the game poll, right? So this isn't fluff or non-game related. Also, after being oddly quiet for Day 1, and having people in the thread saying that you're beginning to ping them, this is what you post? Surely you have something else to talk about?

[Ricochet]

That pings me really hard.

[Dom]

Make sure you vote in the poll.

[Scotty]

I am going to go with Customer Service tonight.

Why are you posting such fluffy, non-game-related stuff this late in? Surely you have something else to talk about?

Here kitty kitty kitty:

Can someone explain to me why leetic voted Wilgy early in the day without saying why and vanishing into mist? That pings me really hard. He has 5 posts, all saying nothing of worth.

[Enrique]

Shit, I thought this ended today, I'm so sorry. I'm not caught up yet but expect more content from me soon.

[DrumBeats]

@ Scotty - The thing is that you directly said that we would get to make more sense of things after the flip and then voted a player with 0 interactions to make sense of post flip. What were we supposed to learn from Goldys flip other than Goldys alignment?

@ Quin - Why do you think INH defended you so hard last phase?

@ Matt - What do you think about INH's defense of Quin last phase?

[DrumBeats]

@ Leetic and Eloh - What are your current reads?

[Scotty]

@ Scotty - The thing is that you directly said that we would get to make more sense of things after the flip and then voted a player with 0 interactions to make sense of post flip. What were we supposed to learn from Goldys flip other than Goldys alignment?

@ Quin - Why do you think INH defended you so hard last phase?

@ Matt - What do you think about INH's defense of Quin last phase?

If Goldy were ultimately voted out, we could have made sense of that- When people voted, how people voted, why people didn't vote for her- it's all information. Wilgy was ultimately lynched so now we get to make sense of that.