The Syndicate

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:48 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:03 pm It's striking that I have nothing at this point to tell me that Epignosis is a civilian. I could have given vague tone credit for the earlier portion of the game, but that hasn't held.

does epi usually obvtown by n2?

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:49 pm**

Wisp wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:35 pm "replaced back in as mafia"
wtf

what do u mean by super dense?
@JaggedJimmyJay

When sabie was mafia her posts contained a much higher word count, generally, than I am seeing in this game.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:51 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:49 pm
Wisp wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:35 pm "replaced back in as mafia"
wtf

what do u mean by super dense?
@JaggedJimmyJay
When sabie was mafia her posts contained a much higher word count, generally, than I am seeing in this game.

I think sabie is town here but not because her posts have a lower word count lol, unless you think it is a tell specific to her that she types a lot of stuff as mafia, which I don't think you can establish with a sample size of 1

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:51 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:03 pm It's striking that I have nothing at this point to tell me that Epignosis is a civilian. I could have given vague tone credit for the earlier portion of the game, but that hasn't held.

yeah, when i think about who the likeliest wolf is i kinda come back to epi more than anyone else?

and i hate to say it because nanook is probably rolling over in his grave but like

there is something very lacking in epi’s presence this game

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:52 pm**

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:42 pm i don't understand the basis of many of these reads

like why do you have an opinion about my tone

They're snap judgments I just made. I have an opinion about everyone's tone. I don't think your tone is necessarily "bad", but it isn't a tone that makes me feel "yes, this player is consistently making posts that feel honest and true to me". I also think you have a certain logical approach that would preclude the expression of much emotion, and that's where tone tends to come from.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:52 pm**

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:51 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:49 pm
Wisp wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:35 pm "replaced back in as mafia"
wtf

what do u mean by super dense?
@JaggedJimmyJay
When sabie was mafia her posts contained a much higher word count, generally, than I am seeing in this game.
I think sabie is town here but not because her posts have a lower word count lol, unless you think it is a tell specific to her that she types a lot of stuff as mafia, which I don't think you can establish with a sample size of 1

That was a sample size of two, and I do think that can be a general tell. It would be a tell for me. Use this against me in the future. It isn't rock solid or whatever, but it's something.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:53 pm**

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:51 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:03 pm It's striking that I have nothing at this point to tell me that Epignosis is a civilian. I could have given vague tone credit for the earlier portion of the game, but that hasn't held.
yeah, when i think about who the likeliest wolf is i kinda come back to epi more than anyone else?

and i hate to say it because nanook is probably rolling over in his grave but like

there is something very lacking in epi’s presence this game

nanook might not be rolling over in his grave tbh

like nanook said epi is doing X behavior, if he keeps doing it he's town if he stops doing it he's wolf, but he refused to tell us what X behavior is to avoid influencing epi

for all you know nanook is in the dead chat right now going "oh damn epi stopped doing X a while back, he's definitely scum"

anyway I tend to assume epi's lack of presence has more to do with IRL stuff than his alignment but I think he's scum for all the reasons I mentioned before anyway

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:53 pm**

Wisp wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:13 pm though I wanna try to hit someone more likely to be a wolf, over someone I think has higher chance to be town...
still probably just land on Nutella

i’m gonna voyeur nut then if that’s where you wanna go

based on what little i’ve seen from her though, i think she’s probably a villager tbh

i’d rather see epi checked

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:54 pm**

Wisp wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:28 pm @sabie12
what have your votes been throughout this game?

I voted colin in the first poll initially as a placeholder but I have had a scum lean on him. I felt like his interaction with alison could be teammates. It was reminiscent of how she was in last game where she was mafia.

I voted for pawn who I thought was mafia or 3p. I think the polls are posted on the first page so you can see who voted where.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:55 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:14 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:04 am
Hally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:02 am nanook i think the phrase you’re looking for is “town lean”
It’s considerably stronger

To rephrase....

I saw town indicative behavior from Epi. Epi is good enough to fake that behavior over a short amount of time. If he’s town, the behavior will continue. If he’s mafia, it won’t. So, he’s probably clear, but not 100% clear. Thus, soft locked
I wish I knew precisely what Nanook was referring to, though I understand keep the lips zipped. I do get vague impressions that Epignosis has fallen off since the early game, and I am brought to wonder what Nanook would think.

yeah

nanook’s read was conditional upon epi continuing to do what he was doing early on and i... don’t think he has

there’s definitely been a drop in my mind at least

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:56 pm**

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:46 pm really I think that table would make like way more sense if you would just put "nil" in the fields where you obviously don't have much of an opinion and/or your opinion doesn't factor too much into your opinion of the person

Replace "no" with "nil" if you want. I don't really care. A "no" means "I cannot comfortably say that this player is a civilian for this reason".

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:46 pmlike what is wisp's "tone"? does it matter? does it affect the read on her or her status in the game at all? i feel like there's no meaningful distinction between writing a yes and a no for the tone field for wisp and i would have no idea what you meant by a yes or a no either way. it should be a nil instead of you forcing yourself to make up your mind or think whether or not wisp's tone is good

A "yes" for tone (or anything) suggests that I believe the tone to be civilian-indicative. That's the point I am trying to convey. Wisp's tone is a very close reflection of what I felt from him in our previous game together when he was a civilian.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:57 pm**

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:47 pm (i don't know why i slipped into feminine pronouns for wisp there, I think it's because I know someone else called wisp who goes by she/her. apologies if I misgendered you by accident)

doesnt really bother me

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:58 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:52 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:42 pm i don't understand the basis of many of these reads

like why do you have an opinion about my tone
They're snap judgments I just made. I have an opinion about everyone's tone. I don't think your tone is necessarily "bad", but it isn't a tone that makes me feel "yes, this player is consistently making posts that feel honest and true to me". I also think you have a certain logical approach that would preclude the expression of much emotion, and that's where tone tends to come from.

alison strikes me as the kind of player whose tone isn’t a reliable indicator of anything

i imagine she has consistent tone regardless

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:59 pm**

[mention]nutella[/mention] talk to me about jay?

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:07 pm**

everyone I've spoken to about my tone has told me that either my tone is incredibly inconsistent and varies wildly every game regardless of my alignment, or is 100% static and immovable regardless of my alignment

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:08 pm**

I will be with you all in about an hour unless I am dead.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:18 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:37 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:35 pm The only people that can't be mafia are those that are mechanically cleared. I believe at this moment we have Long Con, Spacedaisy, and Wisp in this category, and that's it. Anybody else/anybody who shouldn't be included?
I don't view Long Con or Spacedaisy as mechanically cleared. I view Hally and Wisp as mechanically cleared unless you put them together as mafia. I think all four are civilians anyway, and only have a sliver of doubt about LC.

This is fact. I believe LC is good, but truthfully Wisp might be given the fake claim role card rather than their real one, we have no way of knowing that for sure. I do think that LC is good though, so I'm inclined to take him out of POE. I could possibly be fake claiming, the problem with that is it doesn't do me any good as wolf. if I don't die within the next couple nights there is a good chance my claim gets doubted and I die anyway.

I fully trust Wisp and hally atm.

Regarding my peek. I am not going to say who I am peeking tonight, then it makes it difficult for the baddies to know if they should redirect me to someone good or bad. I will likely die tonight anyway because if there is a protector out there you should definitely protect Wisp. I might announce like right before deadline who I peek, I dunno. But I don't want to make the baddies job any easier for them...

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:20 pm**

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:08 pm I will be with you all in about an hour unless I am dead.

Make that 90 minutes.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:20 pm**

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:20 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:08 pm I will be with you all in about an hour unless I am dead.
Make that 90 minutes.

Does that mean you're dead?

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:22 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:03 pm It's striking that I have nothing at this point to tell me that Epignosis is a civilian. I could have given vague tone credit for the earlier portion of the game, but that hasn't held.

I agree with this assessment. i am becoming more and more wary of Epi. Not because of his lack of involvement. I know he has other more important priorities than mafia. But when he is here, I don't feel like he is really here even then, if that makes sense. It's why I asked him for his reads.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:23 pm**

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:20 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:20 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:08 pm I will be with you all in about an hour unless I am dead.
Make that 90 minutes.
Does that mean you're dead?

It means I'm watching a period television program with my children that my wife and I hosted a game about a few years back that you committed suicide in.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:31 pm**

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:23 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:20 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:20 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:08 pm I will be with you all in about an hour unless I am dead.
Make that 90 minutes.
Does that mean you're dead?
It means I'm watching a period television program with my children that my wife and I hosted a game about a few years back that you committed suicide in.

It was the best play.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:39 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:04 pm @Alison and @KitsuShel, I'd appreciate it if you could grab me a game in which you were a mafioso off-site. Alison I realize Space Invaders applies, but I hesitate to rely on that -- the mechanics of the game were too different.

This is the most recent one on Realms that I was mafia.

https://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=826161

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:40 pm**

Here's a rainbow list for all you wondering:

hally
wisp

long con
jaggedjimmyjay

sabie
kitsushel

epignosis
nutella

Alison
TonyStarkPrime
ColinIsCool

this took me a bit to make. Here are a few comments:

nutella, TonyStarkPrime, Alison concern me because I feel like they have fought the POE by trying to keep us from coalescing through pushing off candidates at times. I give Nutella a little more leeway here because she just joined the game.

I could theoretically put Jay lower, because what we have seen is a lot of pro-town hunting, but it has yet to produce evidence that he can't be bad. That said, I lean town on him. But I am open.

sabie and kitsu are falling because I need more than what we have so far. I can only go so far on vibes.

Colin, feels kind of blendy to me. I could be off, because I've had to read the last like fifteen pages quickly in the last 24 hours, but nothing stands out about anything he has said so far, and that concerns me. Also, just POE has him in the lower group, so those two combined have me feeling like a wolf lean on him.

I will likely try to clear out some of the lower mid reads Maybe Epi, Alison, or Colin I suppose. But I won;t tell you who exactly, sorry.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:43 pm**

If Jay was bad, his role claim would be a terrible one. He knows we will have to get rid of him before End Game, unless we mercilessly kill all the mafia one after another right now. It's practically guaranteed death.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:48 pm**

I don't know why you believe me to be pushing candidates off the POE. Where have I done this?

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:51 pm**

You've gone hard for Jay is the biggest that sticks out in my mind, I would have to go back and search for what else it was that gave me that impression, I am fairly certain that wasn't the only thing but honestly I've read a lot, so suppose there is the possibility of being mistaken. I just realized I forgot about the millers. I'll have to check and see who claimed it the first day again...

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:52 pm**

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:01 am I hard claim miller too by the way. Not a joke claim. I'm serious.

Yeah I won't be checking you

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:00 pm**

^I claimed miller too a long time after everyone else because I was late, fyi

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:03 pm**

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:40 pm sabie and kitsu are falling because I need more than what we have so far. I can only go so far on vibes.

Idk what else I can offer besides vibes at this point, I don’t have any info to share. I tried sorting through the write up, because that’s something I’m used to, but I stepped back since it felt like it got resistance as something y’all do here.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:05 pm**

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:51 pm You've gone hard for Jay is the biggest that sticks out in my mind, I would have to go back and search for what else it was that gave me that impression, I am fairly certain that wasn't the only thing but honestly I've read a lot, so suppose there is the possibility of being mistaken. I just realized I forgot about the millers. I'll have to check and see who claimed it the first day again...

Jay is a townread of mine.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:05 pm**

I’m a miller, so alignment cooling won’t help, but I’m more than happy to have my role card checked so you might feel better about me being town. I also don’t get an action every night, either.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:05 pm**

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:54 am Btw I have about 7 pages left to catch up on, but .... I’m a miller

Indeed.

Well, perhaps I'll have to move up to maybe Epi, TSP, sabie or possibly even Jay.

Interesting that a lot of our POE have claimed miller.

linki [mention]KitsuShel[/mention] well, you've got time to change my mind. I've only got you at a null because I acknowledge the vibe I felt before based on your miller claim could be inaccurate. Unless something drastic changes my mind.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:06 pm**

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:05 pm I’m a miller, so alignment checking won’t help, but I’m more than happy to have my role card checked so you might feel better about me being town. I also don’t get an action every night, either.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:07 pm**

I've got homework to do. So I'll send my pm and be back after flip.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:08 pm**

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:51 pm You've gone hard for Jay is the biggest that sticks out in my mind, I would have to go back and search for what else it was that gave me that impression, I am fairly certain that wasn't the only thing but honestly I've read a lot, so suppose there is the possibility of being mistaken. I just realized I forgot about the millers. I'll have to check and see who claimed it the first day again...

Don't get me wrong I do have some suspicion on alison but I felt like she was the opposite of what you're saying. Like she was pushy about keeping with a consensus POE and seemed to not like it when people would try to deviate from it. At least that was my perception.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:08 pm**

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:05 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:54 am Btw I have about 7 pages left to catch up on, but .... I’m a miller
Indeed.

Well, perhaps I'll have to move up to maybe Epi, TSP, sabie or possibly even Jay.

Interesting that a lot of our POE have claimed miller.

linki @KitsuShel well, you've got time to change my mind. I've only got you at a null because I acknowledge the vibe I felt before based on your miller claim could be inaccurate. Unless something drastic changes my mind.

Yep, I get that. I just wanted to acknowledge your post and let you know I was following along.

As for the miller comment, it’s not a shock. Any scum would be a fool to not claim miller knowing there were several town players. It sows confusion.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:10 pm**

[mention]Spacedaisy[/mention] you should be investigating the same person as wisp

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:10 pm**

i am very tired and going to bed. wisp and spacedaisy, it is optimal afor you two to coordinate investigates on a nonmiller target, and for hally to voyeur that target

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:11 pm**

all I want is to wake up and read that the correct night actions were performed and nobody went rogue

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:11 pm**

if all the miller claims are not, I will eat a sock

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:11 pm**

Wisp wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:11 pm if all the miller claims are not, I will eat a sock

are town*

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:13 pm**

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:11 pm all I want is to wake up and read that the correct night actions were performed and nobody went rogue

I will absolutely NOT be investigating someone publicly announced. I know we have a role director and all three of us investigating the same person makes it so easy to fuck with our results. There is a very obvious way that can go wrong and I won't go down that path.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:19 pm**

Wisp wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:11 pm
Wisp wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:11 pm if all the miller claims are not, I will eat a sock
are town*

Meaning you meant to say its unlikely all the miller claims are valid? I mean yeah I think that's possible. It would have been easy for at least one scum to sneak a claim in there.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:24 pm**

Hally wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:59 pm @nutella talk to me about jay?

I think he's most likely town and the claim definitely helps there as well. I have a pretty good track record of catching when he's scum just based on vibes that his "exercises"/analysis/approaches to solving are sort of exaggerated or limited in the conclusions that he ends up with, and for the most part I haven't gotten that sense here, I think he's mostly been in his legit town meta. What gave me pause earlier was his progression on TSP feeling potentially forced into being stronger than it should have been in my view.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:27 pm**

Downton Abbey is over and the family is off.

I'll resume where I left off.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:29 pm**

I agree with the general sentiment that Epi doesn't look good here.

I also think sabie is deserving of more scrutiny but am fine waiting til we resolve more consensus poe suspects i guess. I dont find much inspiring in her iso though and particularly some of the way she talks about the miller stuff feels off.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:30 pm**

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:29 pm I agree with the general sentiment that Epi doesn't look good here.

Tell the General Sentiment that I don't care how I look.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:34 pm**

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:29 pm I agree with the general sentiment that Epi doesn't look good here.

I also think sabie is deserving of more scrutiny but am fine waiting til we resolve more consensus poe suspects i guess. I dont find much inspiring in her iso though and particularly some of the way she talks about the miller stuff feels off.

In what way is the miller thing an issue? I was trying to clarify what wisp was saying in his post. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that a scum would claim to be a miller?

I have no problem with people checking my alignment/role. Feel free I'm town.

Posted: **Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:36 pm**

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:34 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:29 pm I agree with the general sentiment that Epi doesn't look good here.

I also think sabie is deserving of more scrutiny but am fine waiting til we resolve more consensus poe suspects i guess. I dont find much inspiring in her iso though and particularly some of the way she talks about the miller stuff feels off.
In what way is the miller thing an issue? I was trying to clarify what wisp was saying in his post. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that a scum would claim to be a miller?

I have no problem with people checking my alignment/role. Feel free I'm town.

No, I think he may well be right. Also I didn't just mean your last post about it, but kind of your general approach to the original claimfest early in your iso. It's an underdeveloped tone read though, I'm not calling you a major suspect yet.

The Syndicate

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