The Syndicate

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sorsha has voted for an awful lot of civilians lately.

I was going to say the same thing about Golden.

I think I have voted for everyone who has been lynched.

Not quite true - I voted for you one day when you weren't, and I voted Juliet on the Canuck day, but juliet did have more votes, and was actually bad.

I haven't evaluated 'who has been lynching the civilians', but I'm willing to bet your name is right there on the list. Didn't you also vote both Matt and Bass?

I didn't vote Wilgy... although I did start the suspicion on him, but I also advocated holding off another day on the day he was lynched. Those who know me well in this game, might have given some thought as to why that was. That's a good point, actually. I might need to go back and see who ignored that advice on Wilgy.

Let me point out... NOONE has successfully lynched a circle yet, although I am trying hard.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I was under the belief that Sorsha was on a civilian power bloc. But now, I have a very hard time believing that Sorsha is who I thought she was.

There is too much evidence for me to not believe she is who I think she is, in terms of role. In terms of affiliation - I have only the same that I have with any other person I trust. But I also have that she has been very in sync with my thoughts in this game, which for me has been a positive.

Right now, I think it is fair and appropriate for me to re-evaluate everyone I've trusted. That includes Sorsha. The only person who I feel completely fine not reevaluating at all is splints.

You know, the more I begin to think on this the more I realise there are actually quite a few possibilities for how I have been thinking some people are civ that clearly, at this stage, are not.

Trickster being on one team and possessing entity being on the other is one thing. Actually, that could still account for a lot.

Matt has been talking about some people knowing what HIS role is. Is there any possibility the trickster could have tricked us about Matt, and be on team circle?

But of this list of people... Lorab, Tranq, SVS, MM, Draconus, Sorsha.... there is at least one and I think now at least one from each team that I can't trust. And that prospect scares me.

I come to this view because even if timmer and TH are circle, they need a third person (I don't know who it could be) and there still needs to be at least one Witherdeath alive.

Draconus wrote:I just said a bunch of words out loud that I would not be comfortable posting on any website.

That aside Matt. I'm sorry. I don't know who to trust anymore, and it's giving me very mixed emotions. I'm voting with MM for the Thief. No offense meant to any player in particular. I just have to know who I can trust. Why not the others? I think it's pretty clear what alignment the Trickster holds (and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the answer we get is a lie). I'm pretty sure the Soul Shade is dead. So let's not waste this vote.

I agree with this. Knowing who to trust is key at this point.

@Golden: How sure are you about Dom? I have him as a possibility for both teams.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sorsha has voted for an awful lot of civilians lately.

Lately yes, I can't argue that my recent voting has been great. Looking over your vote history is interesting though... You've managed to keep your hands quite clean. You've not once voted for a player who has been lynched. In fact nearly all of your votes have been on players with no other votes. That's what I call blendy.

What I found particularly interesting was your double vote on TH on day three. Now that we know TH was poisoned on night one by a Cabal member it really just makes my theory about you being linked to a Cabal member stronger. By day three those two votes would have actually been worth 2 or 3 points each if I'm understanding the poisoning role correctly. And look... SVS voted for TH on day 8 when the poison counter should have been up to at least 8, he would have died that day if he hadn't been cured somehow.

Yes, I think my theory about the two of you is correct. The only way I see this being wrong is if the trickster is civ, so I'll be voting trickster.

@Sorsha: You've mostly been focussing on the Cabal recently. I don't think your theory is wrong as i have either SVS or Dom down as Cabal. What are your thoughts on the Circle? How sure are you about Dom? How many teammates do you think Timmer has left and who do you think they are?

Sorry I even opened the can of worms there Matt, once I saw the way the people whom I suspect reacted to suspicion on you, like ravenous hounds,actually, I stepped back. But I am the one who started the whole thing,and I am sorry

How can anyone think the Master Thief is a civvie? Thieves eventually all get caught & go to jail to live with the other baddies, lol.

Might vote there or might vote Trickster, either one will clear up a lot of things, I think.

I posted a couple days ago about why I'm focused on Cabal:

Sorsha wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Personally I think, as I said regarding Bass, that letting the Circle entrench further and then handing them the Cabals kill is a bad idea. Especially if Sorsha is wrong about this person.

I am sure about 3 out of 4, not so much the 4th. I need to do some reading today.

Normally I agree, but if we eliminate one team and are all focused towards the same goal of eliminating the circle I think the lynches are going to become clearer for us.

I think if we eliminate one team and are just civs vs 1 baddie team it's going to be much easier to come together. Rather than civ v bad team 1 vs bad team 2. Its easier to fight a war on one front than two. If timmer is on the poll tomorrow I'll likely go for him though I'm very, very concerned about a potential SK working with the Cabal though so I don't know for sure.

I think the circle has a minimum of three left. Timmer and anyone of TH, LoRab, Dom, Draco or you could be even. I thought I could trust who Golden trusted but now it seems like he's not even trusting who he trusted which really upsets me tbh. I was the one who pointed out a few days ago that I believed he was mistaken about someone and its led to him not trusting anyone it seems.

If you think Dom is Cabal do you think he is the last one?

Matt - a combination of site issues/falling asleep lead me to miss the vote. Sorry hosts and players.

Sorsha - I think it's a little strange/suspicious that you seem to think pointing out to Golden someone may be fooling him should make you immune from suspicion. He can be pretty paranoid anyways, and it's a pretty natural assumption to make so not sure why you should have civvie credit for suspecting it.
It just sounds like you are upset he isn't trusting you anymore. He seems to trust me fine still so your point "he isn't trusting anyone" isn't true.

I'm more upset that he seems to be doubting everything when not everything he knows is wrong than I am that he may or may not trust me anymore.

There's also the possibility that he isn't distrusting as much as he seems to be I don't know, I'm tired.

See I've felt like Golden has been talking out of his butt for a while now.

Golden wrote:I haven't evaluated 'who has been lynching the civilians', but I'm willing to bet your name is right there on the list. Didn't you also vote both Matt and Bass?

Yeah, but what I didn't do was say

Golden wrote:I'm more or less 100% sure he is bad.

or

Golden wrote:Right now, I believe the civs will win if they lynch all of you, th, timmer and bass. That's only four people, so I'm feeling good about our odds.

or

Golden wrote:You have to understand Matt - at some point this game becomes numbers. If I have 9 people I think are good and 4 that I don't know about, I don't need to feel sorry about lynching the four... even if one comes back civ. Each time the lynch goes for one of those 4, I'm confident I'm one step closer to getting the civs the win. Do you understand this? It's maths. It's the odds.

or

Golden wrote:It's also not 'I got vibes from bass he was bad'.

It was 'there is no mathematical way Bass could be good'. And yet he was.

I voted for Bass and Matt because I suspected them for their thread play. You voted for them because they mathematically had to be bad, in fact you specifically said it was not due to vibes that you voted for Bass.

You said Matt, Bass, timmer and myself all had to be the last 4 baddies because you trusted everyone else. You were wrong about Bass, and Matt, and you're wrong about me. timmer doesn't count, he's the free square in Baddie Bingo. So I think we need to hold you accountable for your actions now... why have you come to the conclusions that you have?

I also notice you didn't include yourself in the underlined statement above.

If Timmer is going to keep hiding for the rest of the game in the Get Out of Lynch Free square, why are the rest of us even playing? He wins then, right?

Right.

Golden wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sorsha has voted for an awful lot of civilians lately.

I was going to say the same thing about Golden.

I think I have voted for everyone who has been lynched.

Not quite true - I voted for you one day when you weren't, and I voted Juliet on the Canuck day, but juliet did have more votes, and was actually bad.

I haven't evaluated 'who has been lynching the civilians', but I'm willing to bet your name is right there on the list. Didn't you also vote both Matt and Bass?

I didn't vote Wilgy... although I did start the suspicion on him, but I also advocated holding off another day on the day he was lynched. Those who know me well in this game, might have given some thought as to why that was. That's a good point, actually. I might need to go back and see who ignored that advice on Wilgy.

Let me point out... NOONE has successfully lynched a circle yet, although I am trying hard.

I've never voted for Bass. I've voted for, or tried voting for timmer the past few days.

When timmer was not on the poll, I did vote for Matt once (when Bass edged him) and Dom once.

I found Matt's quest believable, which is why I didn't vote him yesterday.

Also, if Golden and Sorsha are bad, I quit < Ignore the "good night." I'm digging my own grave.

Linki: I believed Matt's quest, but I still voted for him

Sorsha wrote:What I found particularly interesting was your double vote on TH on day three. Now that we know TH was poisoned on night one by a Cabal member it really just makes my theory about you being linked to a Cabal member stronger. By day three those two votes would have actually been worth 2 or 3 points each if I'm understanding the poisoning role correctly. And look... SVS voted for TH on day 8 when the poison counter should have been up to at least 8, he would have died that day if he hadn't been cured somehow.

Oh damn I did. I almost lynched Turnip Head all by myself.

And what, pray tell, would have been wrong with lynching Turnip? Is he a civilian?

S~V~S wrote:If Timmer is going to keep hiding for the rest of the game in the Get Out of Lynch Free square, why are the rest of us even playing? He wins then, right?

Well he can't beat us all by his lonesome.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Oh damn I did. I almost lynched Turnip Head all by myself.

rude

Metalmarsh89 wrote:And what, pray tell, would have been wrong with lynching Turnip? Is he a civilian?

What do you think?

Turnip Head wrote:

S~V~S wrote:If Timmer is going to keep hiding for the rest of the game in the Get Out of Lynch Free square, why are the rest of us even playing? He wins then, right?

Well he can't beat us all by his lonesome.

Sure he can:

Each baddie team of 4 must eliminate the other baddies, and have sufficient control of the game to ensure that no other faction can win, in order to achieve their Win Condition. Normally, this will occur when their team outnumbers the living Civvies.

So if his team eliminates the opposing kill, then there is no one to NK him if he never comes out of hiding, and eventually he will be alone with one other player, who he then NKs. Not likely but possible. He has been minimally meeting the participation criteria

He can't stay off the poll by himself, someone has to be helping him.

Atleast 2 players have to be helping him. Possibly 3. If Timmer only has 2 teammates left, someone else should've gotten a vote in taking him off the poll.

@ Everyone: Was anyone asked if they agreed to taking Timmer off the poll?

No, I have not and would not help him.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
I found Matt's quest believable, which is why I didn't vote him yesterday.

At it's core, the case on Matt was not predicated on his "quest".

Tranq wrote:Atleast 2 players have to be helping him. Possibly 3. If Timmer only has 2 teammates left, someone else should've gotten a vote in taking him off the poll.

@ Everyone: Was anyone asked if they agreed to taking Timmer off the poll?

No.

Draconus wrote:I'm pretty sure the Soul Shade is dead.

Which team do you think the Soul Shade was on?

I'm thinking this could be a pretty straightforward poll. 1 civvie, 1 cabal, 1 circle

Tranq wrote:@Golden: How sure are you about Dom? I have him as a possibility for both teams.

For me his odds of being bad went down when circle tried to night kill him. Before that, I would have said he was circle. I see his chance of being witherdeath as smaller.

Tranq wrote:Atleast 2 players have to be helping him. Possibly 3. If Timmer only has 2 teammates left, someone else should've gotten a vote in taking him off the poll.

@ Everyone: Was anyone asked if they agreed to taking Timmer off the poll?

I was not asked about taking Timmer off of the poll.

I could easily see the Circle NK'ing Dom, knowing he'd survive, if they had no other targets in range. Especially since last time they had a kill, they apparently chose not to kill.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Golden wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sorsha has voted for an awful lot of civilians lately.

I was going to say the same thing about Golden.

I think I have voted for everyone who has been lynched.

Not quite true - I voted for you one day when you weren't, and I voted Juliet on the Canuck day, but juliet did have more votes, and was actually bad.

I haven't evaluated 'who has been lynching the civilians', but I'm willing to bet your name is right there on the list. Didn't you also vote both Matt and Bass?

I didn't vote Wilgy... although I did start the suspicion on him, but I also advocated holding off another day on the day he was lynched. Those who know me well in this game, might have given some thought as to why that was. That's a good point, actually. I might need to go back and see who ignored that advice on Wilgy.

Let me point out... NOONE has successfully lynched a circle yet, although I am trying hard.

I've never voted for Bass. I've voted for, or tried voting for timmer the past few days.

When timmer was not on the poll, I did vote for Matt once (when Bass edged him) and Dom once.

I found Matt's quest believable, which is why I didn't vote him yesterday.

Well, I also voted timmer on each occasion or tried to.

linki @tranq - that possibility does make sense. Timmer/TH/dom would work for that team.

The thing is, i think Dom and LoRab are linked together. I think they're either civvie together, or baddies together.
If they're civvie together or Cabal, i'm at a loss as to Timmer's final teammate. Which is making me consider Master Thief as being one of them. I mean, i doubt it, but i don't like considering it.

What are your thoughts on Draco's post about figuring out who we can trust 100% being more important than figuring out which baddie team the Trickster is on? Would you be willing to change your poll vote?

I just think lorab knows dom is a civ.

For me, I think it is easily timmer and TH first from that team... after that, figuring out who else is on the team is a possibility. The dom thing makes sense, but I don't really think it is true.

@tranq - every player needs to be out there. I'm even including thinking you could be one of them, at this point.

As for trickster - I don't think it it necessarily is as straightforward as 'finding out which team they are on'. The person I am suspecting right now for being trickster has even either voted or considered voting trickster. For me, that reinforces that trickster is a good vote... it may be the only way we can figure out that roles affiliation. If I find out that role is civ, it changes the complexion of the game from here significantly.

I can find other ways to double back on the Master Thief.

Golden wrote:For me, I think it is easily timmer and TH first from that team... after that, figuring out who else is on the team is a possibility.

I'm confident that you will eventually explain why you keep bringing up my name with nothing to back it up.

S~V~S wrote:Sorry I even opened the can of worms there Matt, once I saw the way the people whom I suspect reacted to suspicion on you, like ravenous hounds,actually, I stepped back. But I am the one who started the whole thing,and I am sorry

How can anyone think the Master Thief is a civvie? Thieves eventually all get caught & go to jail to live with the other baddies, lol.

Might vote there or might vote Trickster, either one will clear up a lot of things, I think.

Um Golden? I can follow flimsily veiled innuendo as well as the next person And Sorsha did not even bother to drape even a very wispy flimsy innuendo on it.

@ Golden: I don't blame you. I'm also considering all options at this moment
Do you think Timmer-TH-LoRab is a possibility, with Dom being civ and SVS being Cabal?

I trust Draco fwiw.

@TH - I've explained it over and over and over and over again. You just don't like the explanation.

It's basic mathematics.

@Tranq - yes, I could see that as a possibility. If I'm honest, I could also see you in the LoRab spot.

@SVS - I don't know what to say to that. I wasn't trying to veil anything thinly, but I did think you would take from it that I think maybe you are trying to clear your name.

The point is that the person you suspect DID actually say they would consider voting for the Trickster.

S~V~S wrote:The point is that the person you suspect DID actually say they would consider voting for the Trickster.

I don't understand what you are getting at.

Golden wrote:@TH - I've explained it over and over and over and over again. You just don't like the explanation.

It's basic mathematics.

Yeah... that's what you said about Matt and Bass too... may they rest in peace.

Tranq wrote:Atleast 2 players have to be helping him. Possibly 3. If Timmer only has 2 teammates left, someone else should've gotten a vote in taking him off the poll.

@ Everyone: Was anyone asked if they agreed to taking Timmer off the poll?

No.

Tranq wrote:

Draconus wrote:I'm pretty sure the Soul Shade is dead.

Which team do you think the Soul Shade was on?

I'm thinking this could be a pretty straightforward poll. 1 civvie, 1 cabal, 1 circle

I think the Trickster is Cabal, I WANT TO BELIEVE the Shade is Circle, and the Thief is Civ. That's why I want to know the Thief's alignment. If we figure out that one, then I will have an immediate vote for the next Day phase.

TH, I can't explain exactly how, but if the Thief comes back bad, you will look really good in my book. There's incentive for switching your vote.

Turnip Head wrote:

Golden wrote:@TH - I've explained it over and over and over and over again. You just don't like the explanation.

It's basic mathematics.

Yeah... that's what you said about Matt and Bass too... may they rest in peace.

Well, not every single person in the game can be pulling the wool.

Golden wrote:I just think lorab knows dom is a civ.

For me, I think it is easily timmer and TH first from that team... after that, figuring out who else is on the team is a possibility. The dom thing makes sense, but I don't really think it is true.

@tranq - every player needs to be out there. I'm even including thinking you could be one of them, at this point.

As for trickster - I don't think it it necessarily is as straightforward as 'finding out which team they are on'. The person I am suspecting right now for being trickster has even either voted or considered voting trickster. For me, that reinforces that trickster is a good vote... it may be the only way we can figure out that roles affiliation. If I find out that role is civ, it changes the complexion of the game from here significantly.

I can find other ways to double back on the Master Thief.

I hadn't seen this yet. What do you think the odds are that role is civ? I find it highly unlikely.

@Draconus - I don't know, but for me it would avoid the necessity for two lynches, so it would be a pretty big swing.

Plus, you know what I mean when I say I could double back and get the Master Thief in other ways. With the trickster, I feel blind.

Draconus wrote:TH, I can't explain exactly how, but if the Thief comes back bad, you will look really good in my book. There's incentive for switching your vote.

Also, allow me to backtrack for a sec and clarify. You will look better to me. Not 100% better. But a little bit better.

Linki @Golden: I do understand what you mean... I'll think on it some more today, but you may be right.

Golden wrote:@Draconus - I don't know, but for me it would avoid the necessity for two lynches, so it would be a pretty big swing.

Plus, you know what I mean when I say I could double back and get the Master Thief in other ways. With the trickster, I feel blind.

Maybe you could double back on the Master Thief, but i can't. Knowing whether or not that role is 100% good or bad without a doubt would be a huge help.
Also, who says the Trickster can't fake his appearance from this poll?

Draconus wrote:

Draconus wrote:TH, I can't explain exactly how, but if the Thief comes back bad, you will look really good in my book. There's incentive for switching your vote.

Also, allow me to backtrack for a sec and clarify. You will look better to me. Not 100% better. But a little bit better.

Linki @Golden: I do understand what you mean... I'll think on it some more today, but you may be right.

Interesting How does this work? I wish you could elaborate... are you still near where you talked about going the other day?

Turnip Head wrote:

Draconus wrote:

Draconus wrote:TH, I can't explain exactly how, but if the Thief comes back bad, you will look really good in my book. There's incentive for switching your vote.

Also, allow me to backtrack for a sec and clarify. You will look better to me. Not 100% better. But a little bit better.

Linki @Golden: I do understand what you mean... I'll think on it some more today, but you may be right.

Interesting How does this work? I wish you could elaborate... are you still near where you talked about going the other day?

Sad to say, I am long gone because I found I have trust issues (and that's not directed at you).

Tranq wrote:

Golden wrote:@Draconus - I don't know, but for me it would avoid the necessity for two lynches, so it would be a pretty big swing.

Plus, you know what I mean when I say I could double back and get the Master Thief in other ways. With the trickster, I feel blind.

Maybe you could double back on the Master Thief, but i can't. Knowing whether or not that role is 100% good or bad without a doubt would be a huge help.
Also, who says the Trickster can't fake his appearance from this poll?

That's what I've been saying!!!