The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:It could also be civvies that play their roles as individuals rather than as members of a team; everyone wants to be a chief, no one wants to be an Indian. And civvies need Indians more than chiefs; too many chiefs, and the Indians lose interest. A trend I have noticed here is the civvies waste too much time suspecting each other becasue they are not even trying to play together or as a group.

I could be wrong, but IMO the games here are not any more out of, or in, balance than they are, or were, anywhere else

Are you implying that all Native Americans are followers?



Seriously, I think the issue is more that, in a full game, there's 48 hours to talk, but many people (mostly civilians) will wait until the last few hours to "catch up" and vote. These people have not allowed themselves the luxury of processing and digesting the information. Then what ends up happening is that they vote between the two (or three) people who have the most votes (or self vote- even worse) and call it a day. They're okay because it isn't them. If I have one skill as a FEB, it's forcing the false dilemma between two civilians. And most of the time it works like a charm.

But every other place I have played it was 50/50 tbh, and the games had balance similar to ours. Except STV, where the civvies won more often than not, and that's because they were all very active for the most part. No chiefs. Here a lot of people seem to be playing to win THEMSELVES, rather than playing for the civvie cause. Perhaps because so many of our players started playing here, we grew our own culture. But I think the "*I* wanna win" culture we have going would see more civvie wins if it became "*WE* wanna win".

S~V~S wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:It could also be civvies that play their roles as individuals rather than as members of a team; everyone wants to be a chief, no one wants to be an Indian. And civvies need Indians more than chiefs; too many chiefs, and the Indians lose interest. A trend I have noticed here is the civvies waste too much time suspecting each other becasue they are not even trying to play together or as a group.

I could be wrong, but IMO the games here are not any more out of, or in, balance than they are, or were, anywhere else

Are you implying that all Native Americans are followers?



Seriously, I think the issue is more that, in a full game, there's 48 hours to talk, but many people (mostly civilians) will wait until the last few hours to "catch up" and vote. These people have not allowed themselves the luxury of processing and digesting the information. Then what ends up happening is that they vote between the two (or three) people who have the most votes (or self vote- even worse) and call it a day. They're okay because it isn't them. If I have one skill as a FEB, it's forcing the false dilemma between two civilians. And most of the time it works like a charm.

But every other place I have played it was 50/50 tbh, and the games had balance similar to ours. Except STV, where the civvies won more often than not, and that's because they were all very active for the most part. No chiefs. Here a lot of people seem to be playing to win THEMSELVES, rather than playing for the civvie cause. Perhaps because so many of our players started playing here, we grew our own culture. But I think the "*I* wanna win" culture we have going would see more civvie wins if it became "*WE* wanna win".

I don't really understand the distinction. How can you play as a team when you don't know who is on your team or who is trying to betray you? YOU are the only person you can really trust, so it makes fusing as a team difficult.

I think uninterested civvies who don't really do any analysis and just follow the crowd is a bigger problem.

I think S~V~S is signifying that perhaps people are too focused on NO U'ing those who suspect them and aren't as willing to cooperate as perhaps they should be even when they have reason to. But maybe I misunderstand?

Anyway, I think this is an interesting discussion, but for most of the Job games here I've seen so far, I think the most contributing reason is the one Epig pointed out: disinterested civilians.

Additionally, it could be argued that even though the probability of a coin flipping 10 times and landing on heads each time is unlikely, but it is still a possibility nonetheless. Obviously mafia games are incredibly complicated and depend on the personality, effort, and luck regarding each individual, but it's entirely possible that the explanation is that mafia have won just because they have won.

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Good game guys. Another baddie win, lol.

I can't believe the dismal Civvie track record in the Jobs section of the Hall of Fame. Wow! Do we need more powerful Civvie teams in this meta?

It's an issue I've tried to address here:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... ?f=8&t=404

I find two reasons for the rampant string of Mafia victories:

1. Overpowered Mafia with an unbalanced ratio.
2. Apathetic or uninvested civilians.

I agree bc it is what happened in this game.
Not the overpowered mafia obv as there was a trio of players that were alive longest all from different teams.
Uninterested civs.
I cannot tell you how MANY PM's I sent out prior to the start of night literally BEGGING the civ players to use their power.

Never in any game that I have hosted have I seen so many civs not bothering to post, play or use their night action(s). It really bummed me out after all the work that went into creating a fun and balanced game - to have to beg people to use their ability. As a matter of fact there were a few that NEVER got used r if they had the civs would have had better chance than what they did.

My favorite completely unused role - The Dead Collector could choose any dead power they wanted to - they had kills, blocks, protections etc at their disposal and yet never used - a real bummer especially as it was my favorite role.

Roxy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Good game guys. Another baddie win, lol.

I can't believe the dismal Civvie track record in the Jobs section of the Hall of Fame. Wow! Do we need more powerful Civvie teams in this meta?

It's an issue I've tried to address here:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... ?f=8&t=404

I find two reasons for the rampant string of Mafia victories:

1. Overpowered Mafia with an unbalanced ratio.
2. Apathetic or uninvested civilians.

I agree bc it is what happened in this game.
Not the overpowered mafia obv as there was a trio of players that were alive longest all from different teams.
Uninterested civs.
I cannot tell you how MANY PM's I sent out prior to the start of night literally BEGGING the civ players to use their power.

Never in any game that I have hosted have I seen so many civs not bothering to post, play or use their night action(s). It really bummed me out after all the work that went into creating a fun and balanced game - to have to beg people to use their ability. As a matter of fact there were a few that NEVER got used r if they had the civs would have had better chance than what they did.

My favorite completely unused role - The Dead Collector could choose any dead power they wanted to - they had kills, blocks, protections etc at their disposal and yet never used - a real bummer especially as it was my favorite role.

I've had this experience as a host as well, and it is very frustrating. Especially when you have crafted the rolls to be balanced, and then one player not using their ability throws the game out of balance.

thellama73 wrote:

Roxy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Good game guys. Another baddie win, lol.

I can't believe the dismal Civvie track record in the Jobs section of the Hall of Fame. Wow! Do we need more powerful Civvie teams in this meta?

It's an issue I've tried to address here:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... ?f=8&t=404

I find two reasons for the rampant string of Mafia victories:

1. Overpowered Mafia with an unbalanced ratio.
2. Apathetic or uninvested civilians.

I agree bc it is what happened in this game.
Not the overpowered mafia obv as there was a trio of players that were alive longest all from different teams.
Uninterested civs.
I cannot tell you how MANY PM's I sent out prior to the start of night literally BEGGING the civ players to use their power.

Never in any game that I have hosted have I seen so many civs not bothering to post, play or use their night action(s). It really bummed me out after all the work that went into creating a fun and balanced game - to have to beg people to use their ability. As a matter of fact there were a few that NEVER got used r if they had the civs would have had better chance than what they did.

My favorite completely unused role - The Dead Collector could choose any dead power they wanted to - they had kills, blocks, protections etc at their disposal and yet never used - a real bummer especially as it was my favorite role.

I've had this experience as a host as well, and it is very frustrating. Especially when you have crafted the rolls to be balanced, and then one player not using their ability throws the game out of balance.

This. It can be incredibly disappointing.

LoRab wrote:And, LC, I'll be totally shameless: in honor of your win and totally snowing me in this game, you should totally donate to my cause to fight childhood cancer. Seriously--no donation is too small, and can make a huge difference. Cancer sucks.



https://www.stbaldricks.org/participant ... 60938/2014

No PayPal?

I didnt know what would be the right first-time host gift for a Porcupine, but facebook once again comes to the rescue. So thanks DP and enjoy all the pumpkins this halloween!

Well that was a fail.

S~V~S wrote:But I think the "*I* wanna win" culture we have going would see more civvie wins if it became "*WE* wanna win".

My personal issue with that philosophy is Civvies don't know who other civvies are. I rarely trust anyone at all when i play mafia, so while i attempt to help the civvie cause with perspectives that can help civvies make informed decision, I don't feel comfortable giving up my chief headdress.

Playing as a team is hard when you don't know exactly who your team is.

Yet somehow it worked at the other forums where I have played.

I do sort of agree; there seems to be more of a streak of extremely paranoid civvies constantly suspecting everyone and refusing to put out the necessary trust to win in full games here.

Banners!

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Should I take a player banner and further clutter up my sig needlessly? I think I should.

Where's my Newt banner?