The Syndicate

Dyslexicon wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:Alright. Can we revisit the Golden/Eloh/Fred/JJJ target switch mindfuckery?
Golden said he targeted JJJ, but got Fred as a result.
Golden was probably full of shit, but not so shitty that it could easily be discovered he was lying.
MP says Eloh targeted Golden and Fred and switched them.
Would it be reasonable to assume that Golden tried watching himself?

Of course, MP could be lying too.

Actually it says in Golden's flip that he could not self target. So that means there is some monkey business here.

Juliets, that post looks pretty bad for Fred indeed. Will need to come back to this as I really have to go now, I'm already late..

MP has 3 stars by his name designating he's asked to be replaced?? Has that been there the whole time? I don't understand...he just got here...

MovingPictures07 wrote:Something to keep in mind:

If the indy demo-man is the reason Golden and LC were marked, it's possible either or both of those players wasn't his original target. That makes analysis more unfortunately complicated, but perhaps there's a way we can determine the likelihood that this was the case?

Sure there's a way. If you/Elohcin redirected actions for the confirmed markees (Golden and Quin), then it's plausible. You claimed Golden was such a player on N1. Was Quin ever a redirect target of yours?

Would those that think I fit the profile of final mafia please explain why rather than lumping it in with other reads? Because wow, I have no idea how anyone is getting that.

Agreed that Fredwood doesn't look the greatest. I'll be around today, reviewing.

speedchuck wrote:Would those that think I fit the profile of final mafia please explain why rather than lumping it in with other reads? Because wow, I have no idea how anyone is getting that.

Agreed that Fredwood doesn't look the greatest. I'll be around today, reviewing.

What about you do you believe should definitively separate you from the mafia team?

Dyslexicon wrote: Spped:

speedchuck wrote:Hey guys, I'm back.

I'm crying right now I just can't.

What.

Hammer Long Con

This "Hey, guys, I'm back" is suspicious to me. Looks like putting emphasis on being away.
Can someone check if Speed has had posts like that earlier in this game? (I have to go now, or else I'll check this myself tonight).

I found this post that he posted after he had been out of the thread for several hours:

speedchuck wrote:Hello, yes, I am speedchuck. How may I be of service?

I also see three posts that started with "catching up" indicating he had been away.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

speedchuck wrote:Would those that think I fit the profile of final mafia please explain why rather than lumping it in with other reads? Because wow, I have no idea how anyone is getting that.

Agreed that Fredwood doesn't look the greatest. I'll be around today, reviewing.

What about you do you believe should definitively separate you from the mafia team?

Actions of speedchuck:

Lynched Marmot when he didn't have to, giving town an early start on killing mafia.
Pulled support from the LC lynch to the Soneji lynch, which then incriminated LC even more. (LC himself would have been a better lynch for mafia)
Was the first to speculate/push that Golden's watcher claim didn't seem town-fit, balance-wise.

The first was pointless even if I wanted to bus and look good. I would have looked fine anyway.
The second was just stupid for scum to do. If I wanted to bus, I could have bussed LC all day and Soneji would have had a chance to keep going.
The third didn't lead anywhere before Golden got massacred, but everyone was leaning town because of Golden's role claim. I kept things going on him a bit, though not much happened that day.

I was instrumental in guaranteeing lynches on three of the mafia. I would have been there for a fourth on Golden. Admittedly, I townread Quin this whole game, and that may not look good, but you can't get them all.
Not to mention that, if you look at my past mafia games (which you specifically have), you know that I don't do gambits. I don't take chances. And my survivability is way too crap to kill my teammates.

But please, go ahead and look at my interactions with scum all game. See what you find. I'm a town dude, and I've been scumhunting in this game to decent, but not perfect effect.

You didn't answer my question, though. As you can see, I have no idea why anyone would consider me scum, and I doubt you'll convince me, but if you really think I should be suspected, explain for the benefit of others. You too, Dizzy. You've been scumreading me all game.

Sorry if this feels like venting, but I feel like I just played by best town game in all of my history of mafia. To be a top mafia suspect at the end of it? #feelsbadman

Oh, congrats on the 10k posts as of this game, JJJ. I'm a bit late, but that's cool.

speedchuck, since you hail from sprityo's site what's your thought on what kind of bad person we have left? Do you think it's more likely just a serial killer who's inherited the baddie kill? Or do you think there are two people, another baddie and a serial killer marker? Also, do you think this marker is like the arsonist role that Dys talked about?

juliets wrote:speedchuck, since you hail from sprityo's site what's your thought on what kind of bad person we have left? 1. Do you think it's more likely just a serial killer who's inherited the baddie kill? 2. Or do you think there are two people, another baddie and a serial killer marker? 3. Also, do you think this marker is like the arsonist role that Dys talked about?

1. No.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.

Never heard of a 3p inheriting the mafia kill before, I don't think. I mean, I've never seen an arsonist either, but the evidence points to that, I think, and I have seen markers before.

Anyway, yeah. My guess would be that there is one more mafia, and one marker/arsonist.

Urgency analysis:

Left alive: 6
JJJ
Speedchuck
juliets
Dyslexicon
Fredwood
Strawhenge

Best guess: Marker gets one mark per night, and scum gets one kill per night.
That means that someone is marked right now, unless they marked scotty. 5 left
Tonight will be a lynch, then a kill and a mark. Two left. Scum overrun, or if scum is dead, marker overrun.

Good news for us: The anti-town parties should really want each other dead. Because...
Bad news: In the worst case scenario above, in which there is no overlap between lynch, mafia kill, and marker mark, this is actually kind of MYLO. Let me know if I calculated wrong.

Seeing as how we only have one protective role, a bodyguard, flipped as town, I think there's another present. Dizzy is my most likely suspect for that.
Fred most likely marker.
Juliets or Strawhenge for last scummate?

Despite the urgency, we've got pretty good chances. Need to go back and do some reading. Now or never, right?

What would lead you to believe that I am a baddie?

juliets wrote:What would lead you to believe that I am a baddie?

Currently, Process of Elimination.
It's not Me, it's not JJJ, and I feel like you didn't claim protective, so I'm tentatively giving that to Dizzy. That leave you, Straw, and Fred in my focus right now. I'll be reading over you three today.

You're looking the best of the three before a reread though, if that makes you feel better.

Also, I went back to the beginning. MP is still around. That makes this not MYLO in any way, shape, form, stench, gesture, pose, or fashion. Good news there. More good news: He's basically confirmed town with the busdriver thing. Doesn't change my area of suspicion much, but it does make me happier about the situation.

Still gonna look over Dizzy, though.

speedchuck wrote:

juliets wrote:What would lead you to believe that I am a baddie?

Currently, Process of Elimination.
It's not Me, it's not JJJ, and I feel like you didn't claim protective, so I'm tentatively giving that to Dizzy. That leave you, Straw, and Fred in my focus right now. I'll be reading over you three today.

You're looking the best of the three before a reread though, if that makes you feel better.

Also, I went back to the beginning. MP is still around. That makes this not MYLO in any way, shape, form, stench, gesture, pose, or fashion. Good news there. More good news: He's basically confirmed town with the busdriver thing. Doesn't change my area of suspicion much, but it does make me happier about the situation.

Ok thanks for the explanation.

juliets wrote:MP has 3 stars by his name designating he's asked to be replaced?? Has that been there the whole time? I don't understand...he just got here...

Mp is temporary.

He told me when replacing in that if anyone else were to want to replace in, they may. Not sure if that decision has changed at all

Thanks sprityo.

I also have another mechanics question for anyone who wants to answer it. Since the mafia had a doctor, does that mean they could protect one of their own against the marker's blow up? Or would they have protected against the mark itself?

I'm not the marker simply because I simply wasn't on Sunday. I don't know if that's a great defense, I don't see how I could set off the bomb if I wasn't near my PC and I don't mafia on phone if I'm playing catch up.

Second, and probably the better reason, I'm also not the one who ended the phase 2 hours early with a hammer vote. Just saying.

As to me bringing up the marker to MP...it was literally brought up a few hours before MP replaced Eloh, and I've never even heard of that role and it's a good role (from a mod perspective) and scary from a player perspective. Seeing as the only person that I knew had targeted me was Eloh it was an excuse to get in a Kermit gif.

juliets wrote:Thanks sprityo.

I also have another mechanics question for anyone who wants to answer it. Since the mafia had a doctor, does that mean they could protect one of their own against the marker's blow up? Or would they have protected against the mark itself?

Doctors usually work at night. Mafia blow-up happened during the day.
And if doctors worked against marks, we wouldn't need an anti-marker.

Fredwood wrote:I'm not the marker simply because I simply wasn't on Sunday. I don't know if that's a great defense, I don't see how I could set off the bomb if I wasn't near my PC and I don't mafia on phone if I'm playing catch up.

Second, and probably the better reason, I'm also not the one who ended the phase 2 hours early with a hammer vote. Just saying.

I mean, I was at church when the explosion happened. I could literally show a schedule and everything. But that isn't the point. We have no way of getting knowledge on whether the marker could schedule or delay activations, and out-of-game pleas are icky.

As for your second, and 'better' reason, I'm not sure what you're on about. Clearly a jab at me, but I have no idea how it pertains to the marker. I don't see a two hour early hammer as being scummy.

speedchuck wrote:

juliets wrote:Thanks sprityo.

I also have another mechanics question for anyone who wants to answer it. Since the mafia had a doctor, does that mean they could protect one of their own against the marker's blow up? Or would they have protected against the mark itself?

Doctors usually work at night. Mafia blow-up happened during the day.
And if doctors worked against marks, we wouldn't need an anti-marker.

Fredwood wrote:I'm not the marker simply because I simply wasn't on Sunday. I don't know if that's a great defense, I don't see how I could set off the bomb if I wasn't near my PC and I don't mafia on phone if I'm playing catch up.

Second, and probably the better reason, I'm also not the one who ended the phase 2 hours early with a hammer vote. Just saying.

I mean, I was at church when the explosion happened. I could literally show a schedule and everything. But that isn't the point. We have no way of getting knowledge on whether the marker could schedule or delay activations, and out-of-game pleas are icky.

As for your second, and 'better' reason, I'm not sure what you're on about. Clearly a jab at me, but I have no idea how it pertains to the marker. I don't see a two hour early hammer as being scummy.

I was trying to figure out why the mafia had a doctor at all but I just remembered there was an alternate night vig so it makes sense now.

I also don't see the relationship between the hammer and baddie play. Fred could you explain what you are seeing there?

Dyslexicon wrote:@Golden, you're being dense about the fact that it's me that's having your back, and not Soneji.

So I'll just make that official, cause it's creating confusion, I've given Golden a vest on N2, because I was told I could give someone a vest and I had to make up my mind in no time and my head just said "let's give it to Golden". This means Soneji had time to give out a gun, and probably didn't give out a vest at all.

Dizzy, is there anything we should know about this interaction? I have an idea of what happened, but I want to see your response first.

Considering we've been avoiding the hammer the entire game all of the sudden we're not worried about it? I mean we had people warning against the hammer when there was 3 votes on Sig on day 1.

How are they Icky? If I wasn't here I wasn't here. What, I should get voted because I wasn't around? People post in thread about not being around because of out of thread reasons. In fact nearly everyone has posted one, and additionally I posted one that I was going to miss almost the entire weekend. I don't see how pointing that out is "icky" if people pre-emptively explain their absence, why is it out of bounds to point to the fact that I said I wasn't going to be around?

Time delay is a stretch, the marker already has built in defense against being watched or tracked, can bypass protection, and can set the bombs off during the day...giving them a time delay is totally skewed in his favor, it breaks the role.

Fredwood wrote:Considering we've been avoiding the hammer the entire game all of the sudden we're not worried about it? I mean we had people warning against the hammer when there was 3 votes on Sig on day 1.

How are they Icky? If I wasn't here I wasn't here. What, I should get voted because I wasn't around? People post in thread about not being around because of out of thread reasons. In fact nearly everyone has posted one, and additionally I posted one that I was going to miss almost the entire weekend. I don't see how pointing that out is "icky" if people pre-emptively explain their absence, why is it out of bounds to point to the fact that I said I wasn't going to be around?

Time delay is a stretch, the marker already has built in defense against being watched or tracked, can bypass protection, and can set the bombs off during the day...giving them a time delay is totally skewed in his favor, it breaks the role.

Thanks Fred. Sorry to be a pest about role things but what does it mean that the marker already has built in defense against being watched or tracked? Can a tracker or watcher not see a marker for some reason?

Fredwood wrote:Considering we've been avoiding the hammer the entire game all of the sudden we're not worried about it? I mean we had people warning against the hammer when there was 3 votes on Sig on day 1.

Hammer is now required to lynch, and two hours is not a significant amount of time, especially when the lynch was decided two days beforehand.
Then again, where I come from, hammer is almost always reached sometime the last day, or even earlier.

Fredwood wrote: How are they Icky? If I wasn't here I wasn't here. What, I should get voted because I wasn't around? People post in thread about not being around because of out of thread reasons. In fact nearly everyone has posted one, and additionally I posted one that I was going to miss almost the entire weekend. I don't see how pointing that out is "icky" if people pre-emptively explain their absence, why is it out of bounds to point to the fact that I said I wasn't going to be around?

For one, they're icky because of the meta level, in the same way that I find "I wouldn't kill this player because he's new to the forum, and I'm not like that" arguments icky. It turns the game from a question of truthfulness to a question of real-life integrity, and I don't like that.
They're also icky because they're unverifiable. Marker could say "hey, I'm gone for the next few hours" then not post, but sneak in for a half second and throw in a day action. They may have been playing video games. Again, it's an unverifiable, icky move of RL integrity, which has no place in this game.
That's a personal thing, though. Probably just me, given how people didn't flinch at JoH's NK self-analysis.

Fredwood wrote: Time delay is a stretch, the marker already has built in defense against being watched or tracked, can bypass protection, and can set the bombs off during the day...giving them a time delay is totally skewed in his favor, it breaks the role.

I don't follow the watching or tracking bit. And you may be right about the time delay, but I feel like it's hard to break a role that has so little chance of winning. If it is a LMS role (which evidence points to), then the chance of victory is slim. I've never seen a LMS win in any game.
Not sure I've seen a time delay/scheduling role before though, so I'll defer that one.

speedchuck wrote:

Fredwood wrote: Time delay is a stretch, the marker already has built in defense against being watched or tracked, can bypass protection, and can set the bombs off during the day...giving them a time delay is totally skewed in his favor, it breaks the role.

I don't follow the watching or tracking bit.

Wait, is this a slip?

juliets wrote:

Fredwood wrote:Considering we've been avoiding the hammer the entire game all of the sudden we're not worried about it? I mean we had people warning against the hammer when there was 3 votes on Sig on day 1.

How are they Icky? If I wasn't here I wasn't here. What, I should get voted because I wasn't around? People post in thread about not being around because of out of thread reasons. In fact nearly everyone has posted one, and additionally I posted one that I was going to miss almost the entire weekend. I don't see how pointing that out is "icky" if people pre-emptively explain their absence, why is it out of bounds to point to the fact that I said I wasn't going to be around?

Time delay is a stretch, the marker already has built in defense against being watched or tracked, can bypass protection, and can set the bombs off during the day...giving them a time delay is totally skewed in his favor, it breaks the role.

Thanks Fred. Sorry to be a pest about role things but what does it mean that the marker already has built in defense against being watched or tracked? Can a tracker or watcher not see a marker for some reason?

If a watcher seems them target someone, and if nothing untowards happened that night, there's no way for the Tracker to know that they were marked. Similar to why the Doctor won't be able to protect them. It is interesting that Dys vest didn't block the kill as well.

Additionally, it really doesn't make sense why the marker would choose that time to blow up the people who they did when they did. They weren't in danger of being lynched or pressured, in fact there was very little talk of the marker or push to get the marker after it was brought up. Town was preoccupied with trying to eliminate all the targets, then they go an blow up the people that are buying them time. Conceivably we would have had to take 3 days to lynch all the people that were killed that day thus giving the marker relative freedom to continue doing his dirty deeds.

I haven't really seen anyone comment on the strategy, I really don't know if it gives us any leads, just seems very bizarre to blow their wad at that time.

speedchuck wrote:

Fredwood wrote:Considering we've been avoiding the hammer the entire game all of the sudden we're not worried about it? I mean we had people warning against the hammer when there was 3 votes on Sig on day 1.

Hammer is now required to lynch, and two hours is not a significant amount of time, especially when the lynch was decided two days beforehand.
Then again, where I come from, hammer is almost always reached sometime the last day, or even earlier.

Fredwood wrote: How are they Icky? If I wasn't here I wasn't here. What, I should get voted because I wasn't around? People post in thread about not being around because of out of thread reasons. In fact nearly everyone has posted one, and additionally I posted one that I was going to miss almost the entire weekend. I don't see how pointing that out is "icky" if people pre-emptively explain their absence, why is it out of bounds to point to the fact that I said I wasn't going to be around?

For one, they're icky because of the meta level, in the same way that I find "I wouldn't kill this player because he's new to the forum, and I'm not like that" arguments icky. It turns the game from a question of truthfulness to a question of real-life integrity, and I don't like that.
They're also icky because they're unverifiable. Marker could say "hey, I'm gone for the next few hours" then not post, but sneak in for a half second and throw in a day action. They may have been playing video games. Again, it's an unverifiable, icky move of RL integrity, which has no place in this game.
That's a personal thing, though. Probably just me, given how people didn't flinch at JoH's NK self-analysis.

Fredwood wrote: Time delay is a stretch, the marker already has built in defense against being watched or tracked, can bypass protection, and can set the bombs off during the day...giving them a time delay is totally skewed in his favor, it breaks the role.

I don't follow the watching or tracking bit. And you may be right about the time delay, but I feel like it's hard to break a role that has so little chance of winning. If it is a LMS role (which evidence points to), then the chance of victory is slim. I've never seen a LMS win in any game.
Not sure I've seen a time delay/scheduling role before though, so I'll defer that one.

I don't know. If others view it as untowards, I apologize.


I've seen them win, in fact one won one of my games. It's a very rare occurrence and it does usually include bastardry of some sort, but if any role could, this one would I think. Especially in a mechanics heavy game.

speedchuck wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Fredwood wrote: Time delay is a stretch, the marker already has built in defense against being watched or tracked, can bypass protection, and can set the bombs off during the day...giving them a time delay is totally skewed in his favor, it breaks the role.

I don't follow the watching or tracking bit.

Wait, is this a slip?

You wish

(irreverent gif)

Fair enough about the hammer I guess, just thought it was a change, and I didn't realize we needed hammer now to lynch.

Fredwood wrote:

juliets wrote:

Fredwood wrote:Considering we've been avoiding the hammer the entire game all of the sudden we're not worried about it? I mean we had people warning against the hammer when there was 3 votes on Sig on day 1.

How are they Icky? If I wasn't here I wasn't here. What, I should get voted because I wasn't around? People post in thread about not being around because of out of thread reasons. In fact nearly everyone has posted one, and additionally I posted one that I was going to miss almost the entire weekend. I don't see how pointing that out is "icky" if people pre-emptively explain their absence, why is it out of bounds to point to the fact that I said I wasn't going to be around?

Time delay is a stretch, the marker already has built in defense against being watched or tracked, can bypass protection, and can set the bombs off during the day...giving them a time delay is totally skewed in his favor, it breaks the role.

Thanks Fred. Sorry to be a pest about role things but what does it mean that the marker already has built in defense against being watched or tracked? Can a tracker or watcher not see a marker for some reason?

If a watcher seems them target someone, and if nothing untowards happened that night, there's no way for the Tracker to know that they were marked. Similar to why the Doctor won't be able to protect them. It is interesting that Dys vest didn't block the kill as well.

Additionally, it really doesn't make sense why the marker would choose that time to blow up the people who they did when they did. They weren't in danger of being lynched or pressured, in fact there was very little talk of the marker or push to get the marker after it was brought up. Town was preoccupied with trying to eliminate all the targets, then they go an blow up the people that are buying them time. Conceivably we would have had to take 3 days to lynch all the people that were killed that day thus giving the marker relative freedom to continue doing his dirty deeds.

I haven't really seen anyone comment on the strategy, I really don't know if it gives us any leads, just seems very bizarre to blow their wad at that time.

That's very true, the timing doesn't make a lot of sense. We were all about getting a baddie, not the marker. The only people that seemed in danger of being lynched were Golden, Quin, and LC. Nobody else was even in the picture so it doesn't make sense that the marker was scared he was going to be lynched. I don't get it unless there is something about the role we are not understanding.

Yeah that would be my guess as well. My first thought is some kind of day limit, Though if there was a day limit, why didn't it go off at the end of the phase? That time seems odd, there was like 6 hours left?

Also, putting myself in the shoes of the role...why Quin? Golden I can see, because up until the last two days he was not viewed as much of a subject irrc. It also stands to reason that there were probably other marks that died before they could activate. If I'm picking targets to mark, I'm not picking Quin outside of a dice role on day 1 he was a suspect by day 2 and a serious one by day 3. If I'm the marker, I want to go after people who aren't in danger of being lynched.

Lynch or Nightkilled*

Fredwood wrote: If a watcher seems them target someone, and if nothing untowards happened that night, there's no way for the Tracker to know that they were marked. Similar to why the Doctor won't be able to protect them. It is interesting that Dys vest didn't block the kill as well.

Additionally, it really doesn't make sense why the marker would choose that time to blow up the people who they did when they did. They weren't in danger of being lynched or pressured, in fact there was very little talk of the marker or push to get the marker after it was brought up. Town was preoccupied with trying to eliminate all the targets, then they go an blow up the people that are buying them time. Conceivably we would have had to take 3 days to lynch all the people that were killed that day thus giving the marker relative freedom to continue doing his dirty deeds.

I haven't really seen anyone comment on the strategy, I really don't know if it gives us any leads, just seems very bizarre to blow their wad at that time.

Ah, okay, that clears things up. Still, do we have all of JJJ's tracking results? Were there any targets that visited Quin or Golden on a day prior?

Agreed. Makes no sense. Ignoring wine, we could always look at people less experienced with 3p killing roles or something.

I also agree with your latter post. I can't imagine a limit that makes things go off at a random time. BUT maybe there was a limit at End-Of-Day, and the marker went ahead and blew before reaching it, giving them time to assess the results before nightfall.

(Btw if we want an item we should all be voting for east. I trust even scum Golden on that.)

speedchuck wrote:Lynched Marmot when he didn't have to, giving town an early start on killing mafia.

I haven't agreed with your rationale on this point at any point of the game. I do think you had to lynch Marmot at that moment regardless of your alignment. The alternative was to allow a no lynch to resolve which would have been a terrible look. Instead of the default terrible look, you'd have taken the bus in front of you. Anyone would do that.

speedchuck wrote:Pulled support from the LC lynch to the Soneji lynch, which then incriminated LC even more. (LC himself would have been a better lynch for mafia)

This one I can appreciate, but it only matters if you believed your calling for the Soneji lynch was actually likely to result in the Soneji lynch. At the time you made that appeal, he was not the leader -- indeed he may have been in third place. I'd have to go back and look.

speedchuck wrote:Was the first to speculate/push that Golden's watcher claim didn't seem town-fit, balance-wise.

The third didn't lead anywhere before Golden got massacred, but everyone was leaning town because of Golden's role claim. I kept things going on him a bit, though not much happened that day.

This is not a true reflection of events. At the time Golden died, he was a consensus suspect of most remaining players by process of elimination. I know I didn't trust him, and I can't recall anyone else who did frankly other than members of his team.[/quote]

I think the best look for speedchuck in terms of not being a member of the mafia team is from Day 1, the same moment where my spat with Golden began:

Golden wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Golden wrote:This is what a real slip looks like.

I disagree. I also don't like this post, which condemns Dizzy and then does nothing about it.

VOTE GOLDEN.

This deserves a sirengif

Even without you catching up, this is plainly misrepresentative. You clipped half of my post - the half that said 'if the original post doesn't say the number of mafia'. And what I did was go back and read the original post for myself.

Unless by 'does nothing about it' you mean I didn't vote, in which case - get used to it. I'm not a prolific voter. When I host I generally make votes unchangeable. I find changeable votes do nothing that basic case making doesn't do (in fact, I think they put on less pressure than questions and cases in the thread).

Golden made no effort to question speedchuck or learn about his motives, he went straight to the sharp retort. This was what I disliked so much at the time and I think with present information available it's a solid look for speedchuck. "Plainly misrepresentative" is itself a plainly misrepresentative statement.

Let's also state: if we're really dealing with a scum team that went 6-deep, bussing Marmot on Day 2 was not a big deal for them. We already know Long Con did it. I don't really think that lynch is a great indicator for anyone.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

speedchuck wrote:Lynched Marmot when he didn't have to, giving town an early start on killing mafia.

I haven't agreed with your rationale on this point at any point of the game. I do think you had to lynch Marmot at that moment regardless of your alignment. The alternative was to allow a no lynch to resolve which would have been a terrible look. Instead of the default terrible look, you'd have taken the bus in front of you. Anyone would do that.

The vote switched to Marmot with less than 2 minutes on the clock, and with linkis pouring in so quickly that I almost missed the vote change.
I agree that if I saw the lynch had changed, to where I could hammer Marmot, and then sat by and did nothing... that would look bad.

But I feel I had plausible deniability because of the rush of things.
I could have missed the vote in the storm of posts.
I could have missed where the tally was at the time.
I could have failed to post before deadline, stopped by the thread locking. This almost happened. I was stopped a couple of times during the literal last minute, and began to spam the post reply button while sweating the fact that the forum's linki design choice might have given us a no lynch.

It wasn't my place on the wagon that I felt looked good, nor my choice to lynch Marmot.
It was the active effort.

I can see where it would be harder to see that, since you weren't at my desk, but I thought it was pretty obvious that getting in that vote was difficult, nearly to the point of failure.


linki: Though your most recent point is fair. TBH I think 6 scum is kinda ridiculous.

speedchuck wrote:But I feel I had plausible deniability because of the rush of things.
I could have missed the vote in the storm of posts.
I could have missed where the tally was at the time.
I could have failed to post before deadline, stopped by the thread locking. This almost happened. I was stopped a couple of times during the literal last minute, and began to spam the post reply button while sweating the fact that the forum's linki design choice might have given us a no lynch.

I like this more. I'll consider it.

One thing I considered was that Scotty wasn't actually night killed, but he died by virtue of his role. The flavor text kind of gives that impression. However, the OP features the term "died" for all players lost in night phases.

speedchuck wrote:Also can linkis be disabled?

They can be for an entire thread -- that's what we do for our fast-paced Burglary (aka turbo) games. I don't believe an individual user has that power; I'd have to look into it.

Fredwood wrote:Additionally, it really doesn't make sense why the marker would choose that time to blow up the people who they did when they did. They weren't in danger of being lynched or pressured, in fact there was very little talk of the marker or push to get the marker after it was brought up. Town was preoccupied with trying to eliminate all the targets, then they go an blow up the people that are buying them time. Conceivably we would have had to take 3 days to lynch all the people that were killed that day thus giving the marker relative freedom to continue doing his dirty deeds.

Not a fan of this thought process. If the marker had left all of those people alive, potentially [in the mind of the marker] with mafia among them, they'd be further exposed to night kills from their opposing anti-town faction. Moreover, if we lynch all of the marker's targets one by one, then the eventual detonation is going to be an anticlimactic dud. They need their marks alive to get anything out of blowing them up. Otherwise it's a bunch of flippy-floppy smoldering corpses.

JJJ, while you're around, could you repost whatever tracking results you've already posted, as well as clarify if anyone targeted Quin or Golden at any point?

Jack targeted Quin on Night 1.

Long Con targeted nobody on Night 2.

I still have the third one.

Well.

I guess Quin wasn't marked on night 1, then.

speedchuck wrote:Well.

I guess Quin wasn't marked on night 1, then.

I wouldn't take it as gospel with the redirections and shit everywhere. There's evidence of that though, yes.

JJJ, are there reasons that you are not considering Strawhenge for 3P? (Based on your lack of Golden/Quin analysis on him)

What are they?

speedchuck wrote:JJJ, are there reasons that you are not considering Strawhenge for 3P? (Based on your lack of Golden/Quin analysis on him)

What are they?

I just haven't gotten there yet. Everyone's going to get a look.