Firefly, The Game [GAME OVER]

[Turnip Head]

I'm not anti examination, and yeah I'm definitely wondering why speed was killed over what I perceive were better targets on Yunk. We have Glorf/juliets on our ship for goodness sakes and the target is speed? That doesn't make much sense to me either. So in conclusion I have no idea why someone would kill him, and why does any of that lead you to say I'm "anti-examination" because I'm definitely trying to make sure we don't have leaks on the Yunk right now.

[Turnip Head]

Pretty sure I said "kumbaya" in Yun qui chat so yeah I think we've got a leak

[Turnip Head]

Oh it was probably DDL

[Golden]

Pretty sure I said "kumbaya" in Yun qui chat so yeah I think we've got a leak

[Turnip Head]

Haters gonna hate

[Turnip Head]

hate hate hate hate

[Golden]

Oh it was probably DDL

Because it’s not the obvious name in the circumstances, eh?

[Turnip Head]

Huh

[Golden]

I'm not anti examination, and yeah I'm definitely wondering why speed was killed over what I perceive were better targets on Yunk. We have Glorf/juliets on our ship for goodness sakes and the target is speed? That doesn't make much sense to me either. So in conclusion I have no idea why someone would kill him, and why does any of that lead you to say I'm "anti-examination" because I'm definitely trying to make sure we don't have leaks on the Yunk right now.

You asked me what I thought.

I said I thought you aren’t examining each other enough.

You called this manipulative.

I don’t think you had any difficulty guessing what my answer was. I feel like you were just smearing me. The thing I just don’t get with you at all is that you do this all the time and others don’t seem to see it as bad. I don’t get it.

What was your end goal with this convo?

Here’s the thing from my perspective - I think there’s a decent chance if two remaining baddies, based on jays balance chart. I’m fairly confident it’s not INH and it’s not me. That means even if DDL is one there’s still likely one on your ship. If DFL isn’t one there’s likely two on your ship.

[juliets]

I don't think we are against examining each other on the Yun Qui. I feel strongly TH is town but I'm only pretty sure everyone else is. I'm willing to look at everyone and if there is some good evidence I would vote there. I'm even starting to believe DH may be scum after all and accepted TH's offer so he could try and throw us into chaos. He certainly had no interest in scum hunting or anything else productive last night.

But I'm also asking why, if a scum bought the grenade like speed thought, why would they throw it into a ship that had one of their scum mates or two on it? Or, why did they throw it into their own ship and risk killing themselves? It's interesting to note that DH was not on our ship when the grenade came in.

[nutella]

Why sit on it?

Golden what do you think of Yun Qui in general

That you’ve played ship games far worse than my crew ever has, and that I’m extremely confident you have at least one wolf if not both and I’m worried your crew unity will lose the town the game.

I think you all need to scrutinise each other more than you have.

wasn't there just a discussion on whether there is one or two mafia left? you sound certain there are two

Yun Qui is like a cult you should see the ship thread they have zero interest in hunting mafia its pretty scary I was scared.

Bullshit. I mean we haven't had a ton of discussion, but we have brought up reasons we suspect people/want to look more into them. Like we were talking about Golden's weird vote switch for a while last night.

Why sit on it?

Golden what do you think of Yun Qui in general

That you’ve played ship games far worse than my crew ever has, and that I’m extremely confident you have at least one wolf if not both and I’m worried your crew unity will lose the town the game.

I think you all need to scrutinise each other more than you have.

Sounds pretty manipulative dude

Let’s imagine for a moment there’s two wolves left and they’re, for arguments sake, me and DDL. Why do we kill speed and leave your kumbaya tribe all alive to pick us off together?

Easy. Because you know we got the crew protection item.

Why sit on it?

Golden what do you think of Yun Qui in general

That you’ve played ship games far worse than my crew ever has, and that I’m extremely confident you have at least one wolf if not both and I’m worried your crew unity will lose the town the game.

I think you all need to scrutinise each other more than you have.

Sounds pretty manipulative dude

Let’s imagine for a moment there’s two wolves left and they’re, for arguments sake, me and DDL. Why do we kill speed and leave your kumbaya tribe all alive to pick us off together?

I think what’s manipulative is whoever is most responsible for refusing to allow suspicion on their crew. Right now I perceive that person to be Nutella. But it could be you...

I don’t know why any townie would be anti examination of their own crew

I am not anti-examination of my crew. I have reasons to believe everyone on my crew is town (though least sure about DH).

[nutella]

Pretty sure I said "kumbaya" in Yun qui chat so yeah I think we've got a leak

Oh it was probably DDL

[nutella]

I don't think we are against examining each other on the Yun Qui. I feel strongly TH is town but I'm only pretty sure everyone else is. I'm willing to look at everyone and if there is some good evidence I would vote there. I'm even starting to believe DH may be scum after all and accepted TH's offer so he could try and throw us into chaos. He certainly had no interest in scum hunting or anything else productive last night.

But I'm also asking why, if a scum bought the grenade like speed thought, why would they throw it into a ship that had one of their scum mates or two on it? Or, why did they throw it into their own ship and risk killing themselves? It's interesting to note that DH was not on our ship when the grenade came in.

True, DH really still looks like the most likely grenade-thrower.

OK, I've revised my order, I think in order of likelihood to be mafia Golden > DH > DDL > everyone else. Golden and DH could be mafia together, if so they've both played an amazing game but I could see it at this point.

[Epignosis]

Derpwolf lol

[DharmaHelper]

See I told you Yun Qui is mad because I'm spittin' hot fire and now suddenly they all think I'm bad hmmmmm

[juliets]

See I told you Yun Qui is mad because I'm spittin' hot fire and now suddenly they all think I'm bad hmmmmm

I'm not mad. I'm just digging for the reasons why you are behaving the way you are. I think it might be because you want to disrupt us because you are bad. And who threw the grenade if not you?

[DharmaHelper]

See I told you Yun Qui is mad because I'm spittin' hot fire and now suddenly they all think I'm bad hmmmmm

I'm not mad. I'm just digging for the reasons why you are behaving the way you are. I think it might be because you want to disrupt us because you are bad. And who threw the grenade if not you?

It was me I did it. I announced that I did it in the thread so that you'd catch me doing it.

[juliets]

See I told you Yun Qui is mad because I'm spittin' hot fire and now suddenly they all think I'm bad hmmmmm

I'm not mad. I'm just digging for the reasons why you are behaving the way you are. I think it might be because you want to disrupt us because you are bad. And who threw the grenade if not you?

It was me I did it. I announced that I did it in the thread so that you'd catch me doing it.

If you did I missed it. Why did you want us to catch you doing it?

[DharmaHelper]

See I told you Yun Qui is mad because I'm spittin' hot fire and now suddenly they all think I'm bad hmmmmm

I'm not mad. I'm just digging for the reasons why you are behaving the way you are. I think it might be because you want to disrupt us because you are bad. And who threw the grenade if not you?

If you did I missed it. Why did you want us to catch you doing it?

Sorry, I meant

It was me I did it. I announced that I did it in the thread so that you'd catch me doing it.

[DharmaHelper]

I couldn't have thrown the grenade at the Yun Qui for the same reason I couldn't possibly be mafia. And that reason is:

I'm good.

[juliets]

I couldn't have thrown the grenade at the Yun Qui for the same reason I couldn't possibly be mafia. And that reason is:

I'm good.

If you are good and wanted more discussion about who was bad why didn't you engage and try to contribute to the discussion? Or even say "Hey guys I think we should be spending more time examining each other."?

[DharmaHelper]

I couldn't have thrown the grenade at the Yun Qui for the same reason I couldn't possibly be mafia. And that reason is:

I'm good.

If you are good and wanted more discussion about who was bad why didn't you engage and try to contribute to the discussion? Or even say "Hey guys I think we should be spending more time examining each other."?

I didn't want to.

[juliets]

I couldn't have thrown the grenade at the Yun Qui for the same reason I couldn't possibly be mafia. And that reason is:

I'm good.

If you are good and wanted more discussion about who was bad why didn't you engage and try to contribute to the discussion? Or even say "Hey guys I think we should be spending more time examining each other."?

I didn't want to.

Because you weren't trying to solve the game or show leadership - you just wanted to disrupt - and why would you want to do that? To cause civs to turn against civs within the crew. If this is not right, feel free to explain what you were doing and are still trying to accomplish.

[DharmaHelper]

I couldn't have thrown the grenade at the Yun Qui for the same reason I couldn't possibly be mafia. And that reason is:

I'm good.

If you are good and wanted more discussion about who was bad why didn't you engage and try to contribute to the discussion? Or even say "Hey guys I think we should be spending more time examining each other."?

I didn't want to.

Because you weren't trying to solve the game or show leadership - you just wanted to disrupt - and why would you want to do that? To cause civs to turn against civs within the crew. If this is not right, feel free to explain what you were doing and are still trying to accomplish.

I wanted very much to be Captain, and not to fail the mission.

[Golden]

Why sit on it?

Golden what do you think of Yun Qui in general

That you’ve played ship games far worse than my crew ever has, and that I’m extremely confident you have at least one wolf if not both and I’m worried your crew unity will lose the town the game.

I think you all need to scrutinise each other more than you have.

wasn't there just a discussion on whether there is one or two mafia left? you sound certain there are two

Yun Qui is like a cult you should see the ship thread they have zero interest in hunting mafia its pretty scary I was scared.

Bullshit. I mean we haven't had a ton of discussion, but we have brought up reasons we suspect people/want to look more into them. Like we were talking about Golden's weird vote switch for a while last night.

Why sit on it?

Golden what do you think of Yun Qui in general

That you’ve played ship games far worse than my crew ever has, and that I’m extremely confident you have at least one wolf if not both and I’m worried your crew unity will lose the town the game.

I think you all need to scrutinise each other more than you have.

Sounds pretty manipulative dude

Let’s imagine for a moment there’s two wolves left and they’re, for arguments sake, me and DDL. Why do we kill speed and leave your kumbaya tribe all alive to pick us off together?

Easy. Because you know we got the crew protection item.

Why sit on it?

Golden what do you think of Yun Qui in general

That you’ve played ship games far worse than my crew ever has, and that I’m extremely confident you have at least one wolf if not both and I’m worried your crew unity will lose the town the game.

I think you all need to scrutinise each other more than you have.

Sounds pretty manipulative dude

Let’s imagine for a moment there’s two wolves left and they’re, for arguments sake, me and DDL. Why do we kill speed and leave your kumbaya tribe all alive to pick us off together?

I think what’s manipulative is whoever is most responsible for refusing to allow suspicion on their crew. Right now I perceive that person to be Nutella. But it could be you...

I don’t know why any townie would be anti examination of their own crew

I am not anti-examination of my crew. I have reasons to believe everyone on my crew is town (though least sure about DH).

Not by any means certain there are two. But most regular hosts balance according to Jay’s balance guidelines and I think it likely that this includes daisy. I check every setup I make against it. In a vanilla set up this would be 5/17. So I’m seeing it through my own lens as host I guess but in order to make sense of the game I have to start with a baseline.

[Golden]

And ok nutella how would a team of DDL and I, or just one of us, know you got the crew protection item?

[Golden]

And now that you’ve mentioned your crew had it - was that public information? Or did you buy it and just reveal that now?

[Golden]

Nutella from what I can tell ‘hunting scum’ in the Yun Qui thread is always ‘talking about golden’ but never talking about who might be bad amongst yourselves.

Why my weird vote switch? Why not DDLs?

[Golden]

And if you are not anti-examination of your own crew why don’t you do any?

[Golden]

Question to epi and Juliets specifically.

In the Yun Qui thread, do you think there is evidence of serious scum hunting unrelated to me being bad? Or is it overwhelmingly TH and nutella talking about me?

All of the ‘golden is like courage’ talk seems confined to this echo chamber, even though no one can point to an actual similarity. Both nut and TH have brought up an idea about that, which under any examination demonstrates that it’s incorrect. I can’t help but feel as though the tone in there is very slanted to a world view.

I feel so sure that whoever is fuelling that the most, be it nut or TH, has a strong possibility of being bad. I just don’t understand a mindset of, like, the starting point being assuming I’m bad and then being desperate to find some way to prove it.

Nutella, you’ve stated I’m bad with what at times feels like ludicrous certainty without actually being able to identify any specific thing I’ve done to make you feel this way. There’s a reason you can’t find it - it’s not there.

I even gave you a lock town tell to research - you haven’t bothered. It feels like you want me to be bad rather than believing I am.

[Turnip Head]

Nutella from what I can tell ‘hunting scum’ in the Yun Qui thread is always ‘talking about golden’ but never talking about who might be bad amongst yourselves.

This is reductive and doesn't at all address the nuances of our ship chat. Where are you getting your Intel from anyway? Have you read our thread?

[nutella]

And ok nutella how would a team of DDL and I, or just one of us, know you got the crew protection item?

You'd know it was gone from the shop yeah? Or if someone from your crew tried to get it and missed their chance you'd know someone from the yun qui got it

[nutella]

Question to epi and Juliets specifically.

In the Yun Qui thread, do you think there is evidence of serious scum hunting unrelated to me being bad? Or is it overwhelmingly TH and nutella talking about me?

All of the ‘golden is like courage’ talk seems confined to this echo chamber, even though no one can point to an actual similarity. Both nut and TH have brought up an idea about that, which under any examination demonstrates that it’s incorrect. I can’t help but feel as though the tone in there is very slanted to a world view.

I feel so sure that whoever is fuelling that the most, be it nut or TH, has a strong possibility of being bad. I just don’t understand a mindset of, like, the starting point being assuming I’m bad and then being desperate to find some way to prove it.

Nutella, you’ve stated I’m bad with what at times feels like ludicrous certainty without actually being able to identify any specific thing I’ve done to make you feel this way. There’s a reason you can’t find it - it’s not there.

I even gave you a lock town tell to research - you haven’t bothered. It feels like you want me to be bad rather than believing I am.

I already answered your question about examining my crew, I have strong reasons to believe they're town except DH.

And I do believe you are likely bad. I don't know what the town tell you're talking about is. I'm sorry I can't put my finger on a good case but pretty much every post you have made for the last several phases has read to me like you are faking your town game. I think it's been a lot of little things that have built up and maybe some of it is seeing what I want to see but there have been enough bad feelings I've gotten from your posts and it's late enough in the game that I think it is very very plausible that I am right about you and should follow my gut.

[Golden]

Nutella from what I can tell ‘hunting scum’ in the Yun Qui thread is always ‘talking about golden’ but never talking about who might be bad amongst yourselves.

This is reductive and doesn't at all address the nuances of our ship chat. Where are you getting your Intel from anyway? Have you read our thread?

[Golden]

And ok nutella how would a team of DDL and I, or just one of us, know you got the crew protection item?

You'd know it was gone from the shop yeah? Or if someone from your crew tried to get it and missed their chance you'd know someone from the yun qui got it

No... it could have been DDL or speed or inh who got it (and I didn’t notice it was gone until you mentioned it actually)

[Golden]

Question to epi and Juliets specifically.

In the Yun Qui thread, do you think there is evidence of serious scum hunting unrelated to me being bad? Or is it overwhelmingly TH and nutella talking about me?

All of the ‘golden is like courage’ talk seems confined to this echo chamber, even though no one can point to an actual similarity. Both nut and TH have brought up an idea about that, which under any examination demonstrates that it’s incorrect. I can’t help but feel as though the tone in there is very slanted to a world view.

I feel so sure that whoever is fuelling that the most, be it nut or TH, has a strong possibility of being bad. I just don’t understand a mindset of, like, the starting point being assuming I’m bad and then being desperate to find some way to prove it.

Nutella, you’ve stated I’m bad with what at times feels like ludicrous certainty without actually being able to identify any specific thing I’ve done to make you feel this way. There’s a reason you can’t find it - it’s not there.

I even gave you a lock town tell to research - you haven’t bothered. It feels like you want me to be bad rather than believing I am.

I already answered your question about examining my crew, I have strong reasons to believe they're town except DH.

And I do believe you are likely bad. I don't know what the town tell you're talking about is. I'm sorry I can't put my finger on a good case but pretty much every post you have made for the last several phases has read to me like you are faking your town game. I think it's been a lot of little things that have built up and maybe some of it is seeing what I want to see but there have been enough bad feelings I've gotten from your posts and it's late enough in the game that I think it is very very plausible that I am right about you and should follow my gut.

Go look at my scum games and see how few posts I make compared to my town games.

I mentioned it right in the middle of your biggest push against me.

If you were genuinely hunting, I feel like you would be taking this stuff seriously and trying to consider what I have to say and take it seriously.

[DharmaHelper]

V. spice.

[nutella]

I think too highly of you as a player to be convinced that you couldn't fake your town play/maintain high post count as mafia.

[Golden]

I think too highly of you as a player to be convinced that you couldn't fake your town play/maintain high post count as mafia.

Then find any example where I’ve ever managed it. I haven’t gone and researched it, but I’d be very surprised if you can, or if you can even find one where I’ve got 300 posts.

The thing that bothers me isn’t so much that you don’t believe it. It’s that you didn’t even care to pause to listen or think about what I said. It might be that you would check to see if it’s true and then consider if you buy it. Instead you just ignored it and now you dismiss it out of hand.

People think far too highly of my scum game. In courage I slipped twice. I leave fingerprints everywhere. It’s just that they aren’t in my tone.

[Golden]

V. spice.

What are your thoughts on the Yun Qui thread?

[DharmaHelper]

V. spice.

What are your thoughts on the Yun Qui thread?

I didn't read much of Pre-DH but last night was a very Golden-focused night.

[Golden]

V. spice.

What are your thoughts on the Yun Qui thread?

I didn't read much of Pre-DH but last night was a very Golden-focused night.

You should be able to read pre-DH and form a view now.

[juliets]

Golden, I'll do a more thorough search of our thread tomorrow but though you have been mentioned (including by Colin and maybe some others that I haven't seen yet), nutella and TH have not been driving a hard charge against you. We discussed your Enrique vote, that we didn't understand it, and as you saw we asked you about it this morning. I disagree with DH's assessment that last night was very Golden focused. I only remember us talking about that one thing. I don't feel in the least bit pressured to vote for you and in fact even joked somewhere (maybe the ship thread, maybe this thread) that it's funny they see you as bad initially based on some parallels with another game and I've been reading you as good based on some parallels with another game.

Other people have been discussed including Enrique and DFaraday. So no, it's not overwhelmingly a discussion about Golden being bad. Nowhere near that. I didn't review the thread all the way back to the beginning but I will do so and let you know if I see anything else.

[juliets]

[mention]Golden[/mention], just went and counted and you were mentioned 5 times total last night that I saw and only by me and Turnip. nutella didn't mention you once.

[nutella]

I think too highly of you as a player to be convinced that you couldn't fake your town play/maintain high post count as mafia.

Then find any example where I’ve ever managed it. I haven’t gone and researched it, but I’d be very surprised if you can, or if you can even find one where I’ve got 300 posts.

The thing that bothers me isn’t so much that you don’t believe it. It’s that you didn’t even care to pause to listen or think about what I said. It might be that you would check to see if it’s true and then consider if you buy it. Instead you just ignored it and now you dismiss it out of hand.

People think far too highly of my scum game. In courage I slipped twice. I leave fingerprints everywhere. It’s just that they aren’t in my tone.

Well I think (and I'm shooting myself in the foot by saying this since I'm not actually pulling any examples) I feel like I've seen things in this game that could almost be "slips" if you're bad. I guess there's the two baddies left thing but not even that, idk just ways you have approached crew discussions and suspicions and some of your "defenses" that have mostly been "I wouldn't do this if I were bad." Anyway I could be wrong about you, though you keep insisting that I'm not considering that possibility, believe me I am and I have considered being wrong about TH as well but I feel like I have enough evidence that he is town and from my perspective of the game so far occam's razor tells me TH is town and you are bad.

[nutella]

Skipping through your ISO a bit and pulling things that stand out.

Can someone who is generally regarded as likely to be a civ give me the general thread consensus on who bad here? I stopped paying attention after you savages lynched me while I was watching preseason football.

If you ignore scum!Golden, I'm the towniest of Townies around. There is no general consensus, but I'll let you in on a secret: Golden and DDL are bad, but they aren't on the poll unfortunately.

Dude with no experience of me thinks I’m activelu defending and protecting my baddie teammate.

Yeah no.

There was this whole thing. Maybe I should believe that you weren't actively defending a teammate, but wifom and all that, and this really just reads like a fake/forced statement.

Put it this way Enrique. If I’m right about TH, I think you’re town. If I’m wrong about TH, I think you could be bad. I can see both worlds.

WTF is up with this? Looks like you thought one of TH and Enrique was bad and not both. Since Enri flipped bad you have still been in hot pursuit of TH. I don't get it. What was the point of this post, why did you think this and why did it not hold?

Oh hey look I found this post later:

If Enrique is good can we please get TH tomorrow. If Enrique is bad then I think I’m wrong about TH.

Seriously wtf please explain.

I can't wait to see Glorfindel's reaction when Golden flips bad

You’ll be waiting a while.

What, you a godfather/seemed or something so I have to wait for the end of the game?

We are all vanilla as you know full well.

You’ll be waiting a while because I’m town here and then I’m going into mostly-retirement.

This is weird actually. We don't know that everyone's vanilla -- I'm pretty sold by now that all the civs are just vanilla with stats and types, but we have no idea about the mafia. I jokingly speculated about a godfather, and I don't actually think there'd be a godfather in this game, but we don't know for sure and you act like we do in this post. It's not anywhere in the first post. We don't know what the mafia might have up their sleeves.

I finally understand when people tell me I’m so arrogant with my opinion that they want to be lynched to prove me wrong lol.

Nutella, remember this one.

(And everyone else. I just gave away a massive scum tell I have just to avoid my mislynch. Pay attention, please!).

Not gonna quote a ton more posts but there's also a lot of you minimizing and devaluing the suspicions that I and others (TH, Colin) had on you at various points. You kept insisting it was only about the Courage game when I repeatedly said it wasn't. So many of your posts this game have a manipulative feel to them in which you are appealing to the set of players who are more likely to assume you are supatown and invalidating my suspicion of you as unrealistic.

[nutella]

[VOTE: golden] aubergine "if enrique is bad I guess I'm wrong about TH" is preemptive CYA if I ever saw it

[Golden]

I think too highly of you as a player to be convinced that you couldn't fake your town play/maintain high post count as mafia.

Then find any example where I’ve ever managed it. I haven’t gone and researched it, but I’d be very surprised if you can, or if you can even find one where I’ve got 300 posts.

The thing that bothers me isn’t so much that you don’t believe it. It’s that you didn’t even care to pause to listen or think about what I said. It might be that you would check to see if it’s true and then consider if you buy it. Instead you just ignored it and now you dismiss it out of hand.

People think far too highly of my scum game. In courage I slipped twice. I leave fingerprints everywhere. It’s just that they aren’t in my tone.

Well I think (and I'm shooting myself in the foot by saying this since I'm not actually pulling any examples) I feel like I've seen things in this game that could almost be "slips" if you're bad. I guess there's the two baddies left thing but not even that, idk just ways you have approached crew discussions and suspicions and some of your "defenses" that have mostly been "I wouldn't do this if I were bad." Anyway I could be wrong about you, though you keep insisting that I'm not considering that possibility, believe me I am and I have considered being wrong about TH as well but I feel like I have enough evidence that he is town and from my perspective of the game so far occam's razor tells me TH is town and you are bad.

Why does Occam’s razor force one of us to be bad? Why does your read of me hinge on TH?

Fair enough that you are considering - believe me I understand the idea of genuinely seeing things both ways but not letting the person you suspect know that because you want to put the pressure on. I do it all the time. Also the fact juliets says you weren’t the one mentioning me at all last night doesn’t hurt my belief that you are open-minded.

[Golden]

[VOTE: golden] aubergine "if enrique is bad I guess I'm wrong about TH" is preemptive CYA if I ever saw it

In your world, I know Enrique is bad. Why preempt a change of perspective on TH?

Also, you cut the fact that the statement also came with an ‘if Enrique is good’ statement.

[Golden]

Ok thx nutella for giving me lots to answer to that’s more like it. Unfortunately if I try to respond on phone I’ll spam the whole quote over and over so when I get home I’ll respond on pc.