Firefly, The Game [GAME OVER]

[Epignosis]

I'm not particularly keen on talking about what was said in our ship. If I think something is relevant to my primary objective, I'll consider it.

I have not had an opportunity to study, and tomorrow is going to be a rather busy day. The one thing that stands out to me is this:

Anybody dicks up this three way tie and I'll come getcha.

But I want to vote Golden.

DDL is reading totally genuine to me and his outbursts feel like genuine civ frustration, while Golden's reactions feel more manufactured. I'm not really examining things in-depth at this point, just going off reads.

I don't have much of an opinion on Enrique one way or another, but I could vote there if someone sums up why I should.

Linki: Golden's legacy post isn't making me feel better about him. Votes [VOTE: Golden] aubergine

We know DFaraday was direct in his dealings with his teammate Sokoth. However, his "criticism" of Sokoth was tied to a civilian (nova).

The commentary on Golden is based on "feelings," is not tied to a civilian, and even gets its own qualifying sentence right after, which serves as a preemptive covering of the ass (funny that I see nutella has used that very expression against Golden just now).

Speaking of asses and covering, with regard to Enrique, there were ass cheeks covering both sides of the chain link.

The postscript is empty, and doesn't address anything Golden said or didn't say. It's another comment based on "feelings."

The issue for consideration, then, becomes this:

If Golden is bad, then DFaraday had to dance around two teammates who could be lynched. He placed a vote on Golden "backed up" by vague and unceremonious reasons. Golden, at the time, was a leading contender to be lynched, and Enrique was not. When DF voted for Sokoth, he had specific reasons, while here, there are none. This is a very different play.

[Epignosis]

I have a long day ahead of me, so now I must retire.

[Golden]

PS have not been in hot pursuit of TH since Enrique was lynched.

I haven’t voted for him since then yet. I’m still considering I could be wrong about being wrong especially in light of macs read. But it’s for evaluation and I haven’t gone out of my way to push a TH vote at all. I wouldn’t say I don’t suspect him, but I’m very mindful that Enrique’s flip looks good for him.

[Golden]

Nutella - your points about things like me guessing 5 mafia or guessing the mafia are vanilla. You can go to many other games where it’s known I was civ and find the same.

If the mafia aren’t vanilla but the town are the game is unbalanced. Here’s a question for you - if you had to guess at the same facts, what would your guess be?

Perhaps this is just the difference of perspective from you not having hosted yet, but I’m constantly assessing this stuff in a closed set up. But actually I have since day one - my first game on RM I hadn’t even hosted or been mafia yet and I was accurately guessing at mechanics. I try to play at all times with a theory of the game in mind.

Could I be wrong? Yes. I have allowed for that possibility. It’s what I believe to be true, not what I know to be. I also say things like ‘I’m 100% sure’ when I’m not. It’s just how I am.

[Golden]

Also “you know full well” was an emotive statement but it wasn’t me saying I know. It was me accusing you of knowing. That was the point.

[nutella]

Nutella - your points about things like me guessing 5 mafia or guessing the mafia are vanilla. You can go to many other games where it’s known I was civ and find the same.

If the mafia aren’t vanilla but the town are the game is unbalanced. Here’s a question for you - if you had to guess at the same facts, what would your guess be?

Perhaps this is just the difference of perspective from you not having hosted yet, but I’m constantly assessing this stuff in a closed set up. But actually I have since day one - my first game on RM I hadn’t even hosted or been mafia yet and I was accurately guessing at mechanics. I try to play at all times with a theory of the game in mind.

Could I be wrong? Yes. I have allowed for that possibility. It’s what I believe to be true, not what I know to be. I also say things like ‘I’m 100% sure’ when I’m not. It’s just how I am.

Also “you know full well” was an emotive statement but it wasn’t me saying I know. It was me accusing you of knowing. That was the point.

Alright sure.

[nutella]

Wait that maybe sounds sarcastic it's not supposed to be, I mean your responses are reasonable

[Golden]

Nutella ISO

Spoiler: show

Nutella re people generally

I just realised TH offered jobs to all three people I publicly said I was offering jobs to

This after he deliberately voted in a way that pushed me out of top 4 when he voted.

Before I overreact, opinions please. Would town TH deliberately bait me?

My crew picks have nothing to do with whatever you're doing. I've got #squad #goals

This is a #TownieTurbup.

You were on the "TH is town" train very early. Why?

A lot of back and forth with DH about Enrique eg

I agree that Enri is salad-y. But "indecisiveness is not civ behavior" is utter bullshit.

Cool that you chopped half of what I said off here. Cool.

What's the relevant other half of which you speak? The part where you say "but he is putting his thoughts out there" and "but it's not a slam dunk"? So basically the parts where you do the exact thing you are accusing him of?

MIssed it again. Fun. Cool and definitely not intentional.

Don't get it, sorry. What am I missing?

Nutella, what do you think about this exchange now? Were you misunderstanding DH? He accused you of 'manufacturing things to be mad about' - what do you think about that now?

First mention of speed:

Nutella was here reading the thread mere minutes ago I wonder if she saw my suspicion of her. I hope so anyway.

I did and it was bunk. Speed's answer was pretty on point. Also it's my birthday so buzz off.

Next mention of speed:

I am likely to vote one of:
DrWilgy
SokothQultuq
Kylemii
speedchuck

But nut then does go on to quantify this read pretty well in my opinion, except for this jump:

....k dude. maybe your thoughts on inh aren't half bad, but it just so happens he's not on the poll, so it's maybe not the best thing to pursue right now

Yeaaaahhhh [VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

That INH "case" is so beyond fake

What happened to turn his thoughts on inh from 'not half bad' to 'beyond fake', nut?

So, this seems to be the first time nutella actually mentions that she might feel I'm bad, and it's connected to her speed read:

DharmaHelper - Tinfoiling but felt pretty good earlier, so like the opposite of inh
DrWilgy - idk feels like we did good not lynching him last time, but who knows
Enrique - no opinion whatsoever
Glorfindel - town
insertnamehere - feels good somehow despite his glowing green SQ love
lapluie - needs replaced unless we kill her dead lol
Turnip Head - Pshfah

I have an appointment at 7:40 in the morning. Seeya.

You're bad and golden is bad for not putting you on the poll again

It's around here that nut really does start going after me for my captaincy. It's the first time I realise the context. For me, this is the first time I felt the slightest vibe that nutella wasn't town, I had no doubt until here. But I did not understand her insistence about the captaincy stuff. Now I get it a bit more, it's associated with a read on speed. But I still really don't like it. This was the start of what caused me to throw in the towel on being captain. It's also the start of when nutella started being a hypocrite (nut, please don't take that personally - I think being an in game hypocrite is entirely ok and justified at times, I do it too). This is because she tries to distinguish between me and TH based on him putting himself on the poll. I hate this distinction, primarily because it makes no sense that the person putting himself on the poll is more likely to be town. If you're a town captain, you're the only person on your crew that you know is town. This is where I struggle to understand if nutella is potentially just captured by being on a good crew or deliberately taking a position that suits her. She does seem to get my point eventually though.

Oh and marmot's on your crew. Why not him? If you wanted to protect DDL and speed, and feel 100%about glorf, and I guess understandably don't want to submit yourself, why not the other guy who doesn't seem to have much going for him either way? I don't think he would have been likely to get lynched, but at least there is a chance he's bad, right?

Here’s the thing...

People can make cases about who is bad. I will engage in them. I will listen. If I agree, I’ll either put them on the poll or I’ll fire them. I don’t see the merit in putting someone on the poll because they are the most lynchable person who I think could be bad. The most lynchable is also the most mislynchable. I’d prefer to have a clear read before throwing someone to the wolves.

Now there’s one thing here I admit that I’ve just thought about for the first time... which is what if all crews win and take my approach. And then I’d agree we have a problem.

But right now, this poll looks juicy indeed. I knew wilgy would be back up. THs form was to put himself up and I didn’t see that changing. That’s two people I actively think are bad and want to see lynched right there. Putting glorf up aids that end.

Okay. The bolded part satisfies me.

I'm still concerned on a more general scale about the challenge of this game setup in that as crews succeed and more people are off the poll we may have a tough time.

PS nut - if I'd been reading the thread properly, you suspecting me wouldn't have been a blindside. At this point I honestly had no idea that you did, I never really read your speed suspicion properly until now and didn't get how much you linked me not putting him on the poll with being bad. But this still makes no sense to me. You know how much of a busser I am - do you really think I'm the type to protect my teammates?

Holy fuck I just noticed something. DH thank you for quoting this post:

I trust the people on the Wilgy wagon more than the people on my wagon. Should I switch, or would that ruin more things?

Go with your gut. I think wilgy is more likely to be bad, but with each of the other two options we may get decent reads out of the flips. In some ways there are no bad options here.

IIRC Golden said the exact same thing when his teammate LC was up for lynch in courage.

Bam.

Fuck never mind I just looked and I must be misremembering something. oh well

On day four, this was one push to see me as bad where nut was completely wrong about the reasoning. It adds to my feeling she was trying to push me as bad without substance.

Then there's this, which nutella should honestly put in her sig. It's the post I hate the most out of anything I've ever read in mafia lol:

like, Golden said he trusted his crew and that got a little out of hand and I think he might be a baddie manipulating the crew game, but that's to be expected. TH deliberately picked people he trusted and we all ended up trusting each other. Not just because we were on the same crew. We're not that dumb

This post reads like a pretzel to me. At the time it made me think nut/TH is a team. I still haven't ruled it out.

Then this:

I’m having a revelation here

Expand.

It's coming

Oooh this should be good. If it's the same one your buddy speedchuck is having you're toast.

Hmm ok that is better than I expected. I will consider it assuming ddl flips bad.

Nut, something that doesn't make sense to me is that you seem disappointed every time you manage some kind of zinger where you think you might have caught me and then you haven't. This is what really gets me - why is it so 'oh dear that wasn't so bad from golden he has a point' instead of just... taking it as it comes? This is one of a few times when you frame what is coming from me before it comes?

Also, at this point, all of your suspicion on me is directly linked to speed. I don't think I appreciated this so much until reading back. Now that speed is dead, what do you think about the fact that so much of it was connected to speed?

Spoiler: show

Nutella re DF

Unless I missed something, Nut's first mention of DF is about his relative position to her in voting for sokoth.

Next mention is this, after Mac's apparent 'info claim':

I don’t like that everyone jumps on macs claim. I don’t like DFs self vote. I don’t like any of it.

Speed, nut, DDL, explain what was in your head?

I think DF is the most likely to have bussed Sokoth, and don't think he has anything going for him otherwise.

In the moment, I didn't get this. I was town reading DF, and had no idea why he was 'the most likely to have bussed sokoth'. Obviously he did, but I still don't understand why this would have appeared this way. Nut, why did it look that way to you?

It's worth noting DF also jumped on immediately. At this point I see no reason not to believe that the mafia thought Mac had info. The others who jumped straight on were speed and DDL. So either nut, or DDL, could be bad here.

There is also this:

I don’t like that everyone jumps on macs claim. I don’t like DFs self vote. I don’t like any of it.

Speed, nut, DDL, explain what was in your head?

I think DF is the most likely to have bussed Sokoth, and don't think he has anything going for him otherwise.

I saw DH say this. But why do you think that? What was it about his posts?

I looked at him after he made what I thought could be a slip when I said Luna looked worse, and looking back in his iso history his suspicion of sokoth seemed consistent. Much more consistent than, say, TH, who some have said started it. I came out with a light town read of DF after that iso.

I think TH is the most likely to have bussed sokoth.

You could be right I'll try to look into it more

Nut, did you ever look into this more? You didn't post about it if you did.

Then nut did take my opportunity to jump off:

looked at DF's (teeensy-tiny) ISO and actually feel better about his sokoth vote, but wish he was participating more.

gonna switch to a pressure vote on [VOTE: sig] aubergine he was apparently online on monday but hasn't posted since last thursday, including night ship chat when he was on the yq. @sig wot hoppen

Spoiler: show

Nutella re Sokoth

First post about Sokoth comes on day 2, and is followed immediately by:

You know after thinking about it further. I can't really drop the hammer on Wilgy just because of lack of Activity and what I have just yet. I think I'll keep him on my list of suspects and : [VOTE: LUNA] for now.

I'll keep an eye on the thread to see if anyone can give me anything that might swing my vote.

So what makes the case on luna better?

For me its substance. She's got more posts to read into. She's kind of been all over the place from the get go in my opinion. But her behavior towards DDL just to dump them mainly based on what I feel is kind of very loose information. I'm not convinced that DDL is bad. And booting them from the crew kind of feels like a gambit to show poise. Get rid of the dead weight, but it also hurts her crew and her chances. So I donno. She's the only one that really stands out other than Wilgy and to me no activity isnt' enough.

"Only one that stands out" oooof that's the most classic bullshit right there.

[VOTE: sokoth] aubergine who's with me? if nobody will join me on speed this feels just as good

For clarity, nutella claimed she was the FIFTH vote. So this first mention of sokoth and vote came late in the piece.

Spoiler: show

Nutella re Enrique

First post she didn't like Enri

I have to agree with Colin on Enrique. Felt like he was just saying stuff to say stuff.

Haven't sorted out where I am on Golden/Nova yet. Which is kinda weird because usually I'd be on Golden's side in a heartbeat, but I'm not feeling it so far.

Next post it's switched:

I feel like a lot of the ongoing discussions are dead-ends. GTH I don't think DDL is bad, he's just being really clumsy lol. Mac is laying pretty low, but we did just start and I don't think his activity so far is indicative of alignment. Glorfindel is all over sig for what looks like nothing to me but... I remember Glorf's first game, and I believe the talk about his meta. sig has been fine.

Got a funny feeling about speedchuck but he hasn't been around a lot and I don't want to contribute to a possible pile-up. Leaving a placeholder vote on Colin for now for no good reason.

If Ifs and buts were candy and nuts, huh Enrique?

This is the post that has everybody at half-mast ready to get their lynch on. As things go its not the most suspicious thing that's happened today. Much like Colin, very indecisive and straddling the fence as to what Enrique actually thinks. Not a civ quality, I would think.

Enri's putting his thoughts out there, but he's hedging his bets way too much here and way too early on in the day phase. I don't like this post, but I don't think its a slam dunk either.

Bitch please. Weak shit.

I agree that Enri is salad-y. But "indecisiveness is not civ behavior" is utter bullshit.

Then immediately this. At the time I read this as 'nutella suspects Enri but points out things that she does as civ as a bad reason to scum read'. This could still be what this is, it could be either really.
It's a good defence of enrique because I agree with her point...

I agree that Enri is salad-y. But "indecisiveness is not civ behavior" is utter bullshit.

I agree with this statement, especially because I see people like you get lynched far too much for it.

But I can't tell where you stand on Enrique right now and why. This looks like a flip-flop.

I hated the post that Colin called out, but I think I've liked his defenses since then. I think I am more likely to vote for Mac at the moment since he hasn't really been doing his thing the way he usually does when civ.

But she's definitely townreading him at this point.

uh guys this is literally the wilgy lynch again?

As in we have some reason to suspect a sokoth partner? Do you have a better idea?

It's taking a Sokoth quote on a random AWOL poster going "uh i dunno i suppose he's playing", taking his self-vote as any meaningful statement when it's just Wilgy being Wilgy and Marmot being Marmot, but especially focusing on somebody we all know will offer very little resistance (the same way Mac1 got got). I don't buy any of it. You've been a part of all these low resistance lynches so you can see the pattern, right?

I would still be ok with a DF lynch as well, but I'm sure you'll just say that's low resistance as well. I'm just trying to vote for who I think is most likely to be bad. Make your case for TH or me or whomever, but my intention is not just an easy lynch, it's a well-reasoned and as promising to be right as I can come up with.

This, several days later, is the next real mention of Enrique. She's bantering about the Marmot lynch. Enrique is against, she's for.

Anyway screw that tangent, I'm really liking Mac's analysis of Enrique/DDL.

Hm. I don't like this.

[VOTE: DFaraday] aubergine

Ya cause marmot's your teammate eh

Nobody is seriously talking about Marmot. He's basically not playing. It's more made up bullshit that will give the scum an easy lynch.

False. Nova made a very good case based on sokoth's comments about/toward marmot.

Enrique is marmot's teammate... I suspect Enrique, I'll lynch marmot...

I think at this particular moment I am more convinced that Enrique is bad than that DDL is. It will be interesting to see what happens next phase though.

The next day:

I'm not really feeling a bad DDL at the moment but could be wrong, I'm leaning bad on Enri but not totally convinced yet. Let's [VOTE: golden] aubergine for now.

I suspect Enrique, I'll lynch Golden

And then she accepts an out on Enrique from Mac:

The people who are being the most convincing in swaying me to a DDL vote are Speed and Enri. That scares me.

I actually don't want to vote for Enrique anymore after just ISOing him.

So DDL it is?

How are you feeling about speed atm also?

Then there's this post. Could be genuine, but also reads as though you are setting up mislynches out of an enrique lynch.

Nutella could you ex[plain your speed suspicion in more depth? It's persisted all game but I admit I haven't really paid much attention to it because I've been reading him differently. But to be honest both you and speed I've put in my 'sounds like your town selves, not paying that much attention to you' basket and having just found my mojo again I think it's time I pay attention to everyone.

For a while it was mostly a gut/tone thing I couldn't quite pit my finger on, like he didn't really feel organic to me somehow or his posts sounded almost forced or robotic. Lately I have more of a theory that he's compatible with you and Enrique, and that would especially make sense if DDL flips civ because a few posts ago speed kinda sounded like he knew ddl was gonna flip civ. we'll see.

[VOTE: Enrique ] aubergine for TH's sake. Sorry Enri love you hope you're bad.

Then this post when she votes Enrique. Ugh.

And then she engages fully in the shitposting with Enrique while he's on death row

Conclusions:

I don't love the stuff with speedchuck/me, but I can at least see the logical progression. There's plenty in there for nutella to answer to.

But that's not what bothers me. What bothers me is what I found when I looked for connection to the others.

She never mentions Sokoth and then just jumps on him fifth.
She barely mentions DF, jumps on him when Mac calls info, but takes reasons to hop off when they present themselves.
She goes back and forth on Enrique but always finds a reason not to vote for him until she has to do it to 'save TH', and then she apologises.

Looking through that iso in depth I have to say - I think I've got you red handed, nut. Like, ignore all the stuff with me, put that aside. Just focus on the interactions with the other three... and that's where I think the case on nut is strong.

Sorry for making you all read through all of that. It took a while.

I'm not going to do TH, I've said a tonne about him and don't have much more to say. But I'll try to do some of DH in the morning.

I do genuinely want defences, nut. I don't think any of us can afford to be wrong here. If you have answers to this stuff, by all means bring it!

For now, though, that was enough for me to vote [VOTE: nutella] aubergine.

[Golden]

Oops, screwed up one of the spoilers. Never mind, I was close.

[Golden]

And now that you’ve mentioned your crew had it - was that public information? Or did you buy it and just reveal that now?

No one has answered this yet...

[Golden]

Replies in green

Skipping through your ISO a bit and pulling things that stand out.

Can someone who is generally regarded as likely to be a civ give me the general thread consensus on who bad here? I stopped paying attention after you savages lynched me while I was watching preseason football.

If you ignore scum!Golden, I'm the towniest of Townies around. There is no general consensus, but I'll let you in on a secret: Golden and DDL are bad, but they aren't on the poll unfortunately.

Dude with no experience of me thinks I’m activelu defending and protecting my baddie teammate.

Yeah no.

There was this whole thing. Maybe I should believe that you weren't actively defending a teammate, but wifom and all that, and this really just reads like a fake/forced statement.

Why does it read fake/forced to you? I get suspected for the fact I talk about my own meta all the time, but I feel like you would be aware of this. Are you not? Or are you saying this feels different to my other meta claims?

Put it this way Enrique. If I’m right about TH, I think you’re town. If I’m wrong about TH, I think you could be bad. I can see both worlds.

WTF is up with this? Looks like you thought one of TH and Enrique was bad and not both. Since Enri flipped bad you have still been in hot pursuit of TH. I don't get it. What was the point of this post, why did you think this and why did it not hold?

I think it probably does hold. It's possible I just don't understand TH or his game at all. But I'm not suddenly going to ignore him either.

[Golden]

Anyway I could be wrong about you, though you keep insisting that I'm not considering that possibility, believe me I am and I have considered being wrong about TH as well but I feel like I have enough evidence that he is town and from my perspective of the game so far occam's razor tells me TH is town and you are bad.

Why does Occam’s razor force one of us to be bad? Why does your read of me hinge on TH?

Can you please answer this one too.

Alright that's me done for now.

[Golden]

One last thing...

Because of being blocked at work, I know that I realistically have to curb my mafia posting behaviours significantly, and I had to anyway. I'm way too busy. This could be the last game where I'll post anywhere near this number of posts (it's why I was willing to give up my tell now). I said I was 'probably retiring' earlier in this game. The truth is I don't think I can fully retire, I have to hang around and play the odd game (World Asunder, eg). But I know I have to become a new golden. My life is just becoming too complicated.

For this reason... I feel like this casing could be the last time I'll get to do proper casing. It feels cathartic.

Yes, I'm being overdramatic. I'm sure it will still happen on the odd occasion. But, yknow... that was an hour and a half I don't regret spending. Because I've enjoyed my supatown ways over the years and if this is the last time, I enjoyed it!

OK, now I'm done for the night.

[Turnip Head]

Hmmm lots of new developments to read this morning

[Turnip Head]

Epi I concur with the thought process behind your analysis of Df's vote for Golden It's something to consider. Who are you looking at, then?

[juliets]

I have two doctor's appointments today so I won't be here consistently until about 3 or even after. I'll be around for the next 30 minutes or so if anyone has any morning questions.

[Turnip Head]

Juliets what do you think of Golden after his responses to Nutella?

[juliets]

Juliets what do you think of Golden after his responses to Nutella?

In general I'm still leaning town on him. He could always be faking his civ meta by posting a lot but I don't think so. I haven't, though, examined that iso of nutella so I may feel differently after reading it. I'm not sure what he's saying about you as he said if Enrique is bad you are good. Is he going back on that now or is he sticking with it? For some reason I couldn't tell. So in short, I lean town for the moment but if he goes after you again my lean could change or if I think he is imagining things in nuts iso. I do like the fact he is willing to take a look at DH who I'm still not sure about.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Oh it was probably DDL

wat

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Easy. Because you know we got the crew protection item.

And how is anyone supposed to know that? Did you guys announce it out loud yesterday that you bought it?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

And ok nutella how would a team of DDL and I, or just one of us, know you got the crew protection item?

You'd know it was gone from the shop yeah? Or if someone from your crew tried to get it and missed their chance you'd know someone from the yun qui got it

We don't know anything, because we don't announce out loud when we get such an item. That's moronic.

I did announce I might try to get one of the $650 items, but didn't say which one.

[Turnip Head]

[Dragon D. Luffy]

[mention]Epignosis[/mention]
[mention]Turnip Head[/mention]
[mention]juliets[/mention]
[mention]nutella[/mention]
[mention]DharmaHelper[/mention]

Did anyone in your crew announce out loud that they bought the crew protection item last night?

Because if that happen we now why mafia killed speedchuck. Either one of you really shit the bed hard, or mafia just bought the item themselves.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

If there is a single baddie in the yun qui and the buyer of that item announced when they bought it, all mafia had to do was plan in BTSC to kill someone fron the Bonnie Mac.

[Turnip Head]

That's exactly what I think happened

[DharmaHelper]

That seems likely.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Mentions of nutella by Enrique

I agree it's a bad look for DDL. His votes are completely arbitrary, you can't expect a lot more from a Day 0 poll, but he still awkwardly emphasizes the completely normal ways in which nutella and Epi voted.

Hey that thing Golden explained above in his nutella ISO where she is mad that people are accusing Enrique of doing nutella-like things? The vice-versa also happens. Enrique is mad that DDL is accusing nutella for doing stuff that nutella usually does.

Also Epi.

Calling it now: one of nutella/Epi is bad. Definitely not both.

But besides DDL, who is very blatantly bad and there's no excuse for not lynching him before Day 5...

The Mac lynch was also seriously so fucking stupid, if we'd like to review it. I mean, I don't think anyone ever seriously thought that because he was inactive he had to be bad. I can't read stuff like this and see anything besides opportunism:

[VOTE: macdougall] aubergine not entirely caught up but doing stuff w friends atm. Hanging back from golden vs nova, I think golden is probably civ but I don't think I see what he sees in nova (although this is by far the most active I've ever seen nova which I may count as a point against him). Mac's iso is far too dull and it might be burnout but it might be that he's bad (or both).

Reading Mac's ISO should have told you exactly one thing, that he wasn't really involved in the game. That's it. That's not a sign of anything besides itself.

First dirt thrown at nutella. A classic case of blaming the town for the mislynch. He uses nutella as an "example of opportunism" but doesn't develop that thought any further.

You know after thinking about it further. I can't really drop the hammer on Wilgy just because of lack of Activity and what I have just yet. I think I'll keep him on my list of suspects and : [VOTE: LUNA] for now.

I'll keep an eye on the thread to see if anyone can give me anything that might swing my vote.

I've gotten this far in my reading.

I'm moving my vote to DrWilgy.

O wow u rite. Dat stink. [VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine

I'm in the golden's-full-of-crap camp re: glorf on the poll. Like unless you seriously believe your whole crew is town at the same level of confidence you trust glorf, it's the wrong choice for the town. And thinking about it speed is probably right that the whole crew mechanic can be bad for the town if we don't think really carefully about strategy and motives. My thoughts on this are complicated so I'll try to say more later.

Joke image making fun of nutella's case.

uh guys this is literally the wilgy lynch again?

As in we have some reason to suspect a sokoth partner? Do you have a better idea?

It's taking a Sokoth quote on a random AWOL poster going "uh i dunno i suppose he's playing", taking his self-vote as any meaningful statement when it's just Wilgy being Wilgy and Marmot being Marmot, but especially focusing on somebody we all know will offer very little resistance (the same way Mac1 got got). I don't buy any of it. You've been a part of all these low resistance lynches so you can see the pattern, right?

That's when he opposes the Marmot lynch. Calls nutella out on being part of low-resistances lynches.

Holy fuck I just noticed something. DH thank you for quoting this post:

I trust the people on the Wilgy wagon more than the people on my wagon. Should I switch, or would that ruin more things?

Go with your gut. I think wilgy is more likely to be bad, but with each of the other two options we may get decent reads out of the flips. In some ways there are no bad options here.

IIRC Golden said the exact same thing when his teammate LC was up for lynch in courage.


Bam.

Fuck never mind I just looked and I must be misremembering something. oh well

It's still a bad as hell post. Sounds like he knows exactly how it's gonna flip and is preparing for it without having to join the wagon.

linki: eh

This part is weird. Nutella attacks Golden then changes her mind. Enrique doubles down on it, though.

This is not the first time nutella has said something about me and Enrique has just sheeped it.

How much of Enrique’s content is sheeping?

I pulled the quote from DH first, said it was bad, then nutella agreed for a moment and took it back and then I made a post to tell her that it actually is bad. Cool narrative, though.

Fair enough, sheeping DH then. It makes no odds to my “narrative”.

DH didn’t treat it like a silver bullet. Nutella briefly did for a justified reason - she thought it was identical to other baddie behaviour she’d seen from me. You’re acting like it’s a silver bullet just... because?

Because it reads like you're intentionally playing it safe. Preemptively absolving yourself for not voting SQ even though you know he will turn bad. I'm not asking you to tell me I'm right and out yourself right now, but surely you can see why it looks terrible.

linki: there's the fact that Marmot made like one on topic post among a sea of shitposts. The rest literally doesn't say anything. "That tells something" is not worth anything if you can't tell what that something is.

Golden accuses Enrique of sheeping on other people, and he defends himself. The subject is more about DH, though.

Mac you need to be able to read posts and know when I'm mocking somebody or ironically using their words against them. lol.

Could a TH CFD possible take off here? Golden?

If it can happen I’m still in. But I do find it weird that you suspect me on one hand and go with my TH stuff on the other. This is the one thing that keeps me from an out-and-out scum read on you.

I really do think TH is bad. People should read his iso and I posted a longer post about why on day three.

How can you not have a scum read on him for this? He has a scum read on you and just asked to participate in a CFD with him?

Day 1 and 3 went like this.

Lynch candidate/s are fairly clear
Someone suggests a CFD on a separate player
Things devolve into an end of day clusterfuck
Someone else entirely gets lynched and flips town

Can we avoid that today please?

I do have a scum read on him. But it’s this that gives me pause on it.

This is new, isn't it? I've come after you several times and you argued back but I don't remember you ever saying you scum read me before.

Yeah, it’s mostly developed today. Mac has been influential, but it started when you were sheeping Nutella in her opinions of my use of captaincy. I now feel it firmly after you treating that one quote from me as a silver bullet.

The captaincy thing was my thing and I've been talking about it for days. What the fuck sheeping nutella? Can you show me the posts? Does anybody actually read me or does whatever's convenient to you automatically become true? I have no idea what you're talking about.

More defense against the accusation of sheeping on nutella.

Glorfindel
Epignosis
DharmaHelper
insertnamehere
speedchuck
Mac
nutella
DFaraday
Turnip Head
Golden
Dragon D. Luffy

Golden and TH are probably not both bad but I think one of them is.
Still green on Glorfindel but the fact that he's not voting is very frustrating and it feels like he's coasting at this point.
speedchuck reminds me of FWWM, laying pretty low, possible third party.
Mac I don't think you're scum because this is you every game. Unfortunately, this is just how you play and we gotta get on with it. Let's lynch DDL and worry about whatever crap later.

Posts his rainbow and nutella is the top orange name. I wish I was everyone's top orange name all the time. No explanation on it.

Veredict: Enrique throws shade on nutella all game, though he also piggybacks a lot on what she says. He never outright calls people to lynch nutella, though. She is his "rival", someone he dislikes but doesn't particularly want to see dead.

Bad look for nutella imo.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Golden already did the other half for me so I won't bother. This leaves us with Epi, Golden and juliets. Will probably do the first two today and skip juliets because I'm not here to doubt 3yo truth metas no sir.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Also I'm just doing Enrique interactions because I want to finish what I've started. Interactions with DF/Sokoth are also welcome but I don't have all day for this, and I assume Enrique will be the most juicy of the three since he was the most active.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

That's exactly what I think happened

That seems likely.

"think"

"likely"

Did they announce that they bought the item in your chat or not?

[nutella]

k responding point by point without quotes bc fuck that


re: "the TH is town train" lol buddy I am the TH is town train


re: exchange with DH, I legitimately misunderstood what he was trying to say and rereading it now I still don't get it.


re: speed, the two posts you quote about his thoughts on INH are from different times and responding to different things. the "fake case" was in between the two.


as for the captaincy stuff, I did suggest at one point you could put yourself on the poll a la TH. But I also started to disagree with putting TH on the poll shortly after that exchange. I know that I have sounded hypocritical about the crews but for much of the game I have legitimately been so confident that the yun qui was all civs and that has so far been true.

goes along with the next post you call a "pretzel" -- I realized how that sounded at the time but I honestly believed it. I really think that we just got lucky. I didn't townread people on the yun qui because they were on the yun qui, I just townread them.

My suspicion of you was not linked to speed nearly as much as you paint it to be. I theorized a couple times that you could be teammates but I suspected you both for enough separate reasons that his death doesn't diminish my suspicion of you (though if you thought it would maybe that's why you killed him? ) In fact it technically makes you more likely bad because there are fewer players remaining lol

on DF: The way and time that he came in to vote Sokoth was sketchy as hell, as were most of the other times he came in to post/vote, lol. I was not alone in thinking he most likely bussed sokoth (I think DH said it first and I agreed).

I don't remember if I ever looked into the TH thing, sorry. But my evidence that he is town is quite strong and I will elaborate more if he is in danger of being lynched.

I was not the 5th vote on Sokoth, I was the 3rd. Not sure where you got that. I remember distinctly when I voted Sokoth that TH and Nova were on him and I was the 3rd.

The points about Enrique, sure you can paint that as teammate-looking but were all my genuine thoughts at the time. I went back and forth on him a few times, he's hard to read. Don't understand your "setting up mislynches" point in my reply to Mac.

And of course I engage in shitposting with him. He's been one of my best internet friends for like 10 years.

Main points. You are just objectively wrong about the Sokoth vote. I was the 3rd vote and I'm pretty sure mine is what turned the lynch around to him. Read it again. I wasn't sure about DF when we had several other promising suspects, but it became increasingly clear that he was obv bad. I wasn't sure on Enrique, I flip flopped a lot and was relieved he flipped bad.

You don't have me redhanded because I'm not bad. You can read into interactions as if they are teammate interactions but they are not. I am always uncertain as a townie and you damn well know that. Just because I didn't champion all the baddie lynches doesn't mean I'm their teammate. And yes, you can't afford to be wrong. But if you're mafia you can afford to champion a mislynch.

Posting now bc have to leave for work, not caught up post- golden's iso

[nutella]

And now that you’ve mentioned your crew had it - was that public information? Or did you buy it and just reveal that now?

No one has answered this yet...

The whole yun qui knows we got it. And since it's gone I figured you guys would know that too, but apparently you guys don't tell each other when you get items. Since we all trust each other (except DH lol) we discussed which items we were thinking of getting amongst ourselves, so I guessed you'd do the same but I guess not

[nutella]

Replies in green

Skipping through your ISO a bit and pulling things that stand out.

Can someone who is generally regarded as likely to be a civ give me the general thread consensus on who bad here? I stopped paying attention after you savages lynched me while I was watching preseason football.

If you ignore scum!Golden, I'm the towniest of Townies around. There is no general consensus, but I'll let you in on a secret: Golden and DDL are bad, but they aren't on the poll unfortunately.

Dude with no experience of me thinks I’m activelu defending and protecting my baddie teammate.

Yeah no.

There was this whole thing. Maybe I should believe that you weren't actively defending a teammate, but wifom and all that, and this really just reads like a fake/forced statement.

Why does it read fake/forced to you? I get suspected for the fact I talk about my own meta all the time, but I feel like you would be aware of this. Are you not? Or are you saying this feels different to my other meta claims?

Put it this way Enrique. If I’m right about TH, I think you’re town. If I’m wrong about TH, I think you could be bad. I can see both worlds.

WTF is up with this? Looks like you thought one of TH and Enrique was bad and not both. Since Enri flipped bad you have still been in hot pursuit of TH. I don't get it. What was the point of this post, why did you think this and why did it not hold?

I think it probably does hold. It's possible I just don't understand TH or his game at all. But I'm not suddenly going to ignore him either.

Ok these replies are pretty empty. Maybe you haven't been going as super hard against TH since then as you had been, but you certainly gave no indication until now that you might decide he's town.

And idk maybe it does feel different to your other meta claims, I'm not one to go read other games unless I have the extra time which I don't rn. I'm not interested in this argument though. If you are actually town here maybe I should remember it for future games but this is the most confident I have ever been that you are bad so I am going to follow my gut. Sure I can't afford to be wrong. I don't think I'm wrong.

[nutella]

Anyway I could be wrong about you, though you keep insisting that I'm not considering that possibility, believe me I am and I have considered being wrong about TH as well but I feel like I have enough evidence that he is town and from my perspective of the game so far occam's razor tells me TH is town and you are bad.

Why does Occam’s razor force one of us to be bad? Why does your read of me hinge on TH?

Can you please answer this one too.

Alright that's me done for now.

It doesn't? What? I did not at all imply that the two things are linked.

[nutella]

And ok nutella how would a team of DDL and I, or just one of us, know you got the crew protection item?

You'd know it was gone from the shop yeah? Or if someone from your crew tried to get it and missed their chance you'd know someone from the yun qui got it

We don't know anything, because we don't announce out loud when we get such an item. That's moronic.

I did announce I might try to get one of the $650 items, but didn't say which one.

Yeah it would be moronic cause all the baddies are on your crew lol.

[DharmaHelper]

That's exactly what I think happened

That seems likely.

"think"

"likely"

Did they announce that they bought the item in your chat or not?

We had a pretty good hearty discussion about what to buy and landed on the night kill protection. So someone other than me ratted on YQ, or the mafia just don't like Chuck.

[nutella]

If there is a single baddie in the yun qui and the buyer of that item announced when they bought it, all mafia had to do was plan in BTSC to kill someone fron the Bonnie Mac.

Then I guess DH is bad. I have other thoughts on why speed may have been killed though even if the mafia didn't know we had the protection.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I said I was going to buy either the investigation or the protection and implied I was more interested on the investigation.

I never said what I bought though, assuming I bought either.

[DharmaHelper]

If there is a single baddie in the yun qui and the buyer of that item announced when they bought it, all mafia had to do was plan in BTSC to kill someone fron the Bonnie Mac.

Then I guess DH is bad. I have other thoughts on why speed may have been killed though even if the mafia didn't know we had the protection.

You guess huhehuehuehuehuehuehehuh

[nutella]

Or potentially Epi but I don't think so.

[DharmaHelper]

Or potentially Epi but I don't think so.

Mhmhmhmhmhm potentially.

[nutella]

Or potentially Epi but I don't think so.

Mhmhmhmhmhm potentially.

Tbh I can't really remember/quantify why I think epi is town so I should more seriously consider that potential.

What are you doing in these posts though

[nutella]

Golden, if you are not bad then the baddies are out of DH, Epi, and DDL. That's it. Those are your choices. Assume you know that TH and I are town (and juliets). Who's it gonna be

[nutella]

Oh I forgot inh. I think he's town but he's in the pool too.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Golden, if you are not bad then the baddies are out of DH, Epi, and DDL. That's it. Those are your choices. Assume you know that TH and I are town (and juliets). Who's it gonna be

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

[nutella]

Golden, if you are not bad then the baddies are out of DH, Epi, and DDL. That's it. Those are your choices. Assume you know that TH and I are town (and juliets). Who's it gonna be

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

Explain

[DharmaHelper]

Golden, if you are not bad then the baddies are out of DH, Epi, and DDL. That's it. Those are your choices. Assume you know that TH and I are town (and juliets). Who's it gonna be

"Assume me and my baddie partner are civ pls lynch everyone else pls we're dyin' out here"

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So I was in a restaurant thinking about this game while I'm eating.

I finish eating and move to the nearest ice-cream box. First thing I see is this:[/OT]

Spoiler: show

That is a sign. I gotta buy this ice cream.

(and vote for dnutella too)

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Golden, if you are not bad then the baddies are out of DH, Epi, and DDL. That's it. Those are your choices. Assume you know that TH and I are town (and juliets). Who's it gonna be

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

Explain

I just did. Big post above. Same page. Consider reading.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Golden's vice-versa post counts too.