The Syndicate

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:30 pm**

I agree it makes more sense to lynch circle. But I also don't think we can depend on them to kill who we want to.

Who do I think are Timmer's teamies?

I'm not sure. I think Golden's trust in Sorsha may be misplaced--I think she could be bad. TH seems less and less likely to be good. Possibly Splints--need to go and read back, I know I had some eyebrow raising thoughts about her earlier, but I can't remember why right now. I have no read on Draconus, and have no read on him.

I don't think you're evil, but I don't actually have much of a read on you. But I've slot you in as a civie for now.

What makes you think that I'm circle?

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:30 pm**

Turnip Head wrote:Why can't MM win with the civs?

The general assumption is that I am a non-civvie, non-baddie role or something.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:32 pm**

Hey timmer, remember that other map game where I tried to vote for you every single day.

Good times.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:49 pm**

See, I don't think Tranq is a civvie at all

I think he's on the same team as the Trickster, and they fudged Floyd's flip to lure us into a false sense of security. I do not think Floyd was bad, but he flipped bad, and Tranq was his harshest critic. As such, I doubt that team is only down to one member. His logic for going after Circle today is sound, but he's going after the wrong target in me, and he might have an ulterior motive in trying to keep SVS alive.

Tranq, do you know how you were rezzed? Who brought you back2lyfe?

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:50 pm**

LoRab wrote:TH seems less and less likely to be good.

Is this a math joke?

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:55 pm**

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Why can't MM win with the civs?
The general assumption is that I am a non-civvie, non-baddie role or something.

Who can you win with?

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:16 pm**

Turnip Head wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Why can't MM win with the civs?
The general assumption is that I am a non-civvie, non-baddie role or something.
Who can you win with?

The awesome-possum people.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:11 pm**

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Hey timmer, remember that other map game where I tried to vote for you every single day.

Good times.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:42 pm**

I'm not bad LoRab and Goldens trust in me isn't misplaced. I'm a civ and always have been.

To me, preventing the creation of a serial killer seems important. If we lynch the wrong person (if the watched person is not SVS) then we will have an extra kill at night and at this point in the game that seems really dangerous!

I was asking about the hall of mirrors because I thought maybe that's where timmer is and not the tribunal. I don't want to underestimate the numbers on his team but maybe it isn't as many as we think. It doesn't sound like they even attempted a kill on their last night which could be because there was no one near. But I don't know. It's most likely the tribunal, I'm just trying to look at other angles.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:47 pm**

Sorsha wrote:I'm not bad LoRab and Goldens trust in me isn't misplaced. I'm a civ and always have been.

To me, preventing the creation of a serial killer seems important. If we lynch the wrong person (if the watched person is not SVS) then we will have an extra kill at night and at this point in the game that seems really dangerous!

I was asking about the hall of mirrors because I thought maybe that's where timmer is and not the tribunal. I don't want to underestimate the numbers on his team but maybe it isn't as many as we think. It doesn't sound like they even attempted a kill on their last night which could be because there was no one near. But I don't know. It's most likely the tribunal, I'm just trying to look at other angles.

I'm pretty sure he's at tribunal. Or at least was yesterday. Don't have map in front of me so don't know if he could be moving between the 2.

And I want to trust you. I'm just in completely paranoid so hard to trust anyone on faith.

I agree about not creating a serial killer. But I also think we should get at least 1 circle first. What are the chances of the watched person not being svs?

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:05 pm**

I don't remember exactly where the hall is... D2 I think? But if you know he was at the tribunal then that must be one of the ways it's happening so there are a minimum of three then.

I think that chances of it not being svs are extremely unlikely, as in nil.

What do you think of Tranq? I forgot that he'd been rezzed.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:05 pm**

Tranq wrote: - lynch a role nobody needs dead

The only way you don't need his role dead is if you are Cabal.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:45 pm**

Something else just occurred to me as I was washing dishes.

Golden shouldn't have too much doubt over my role. Iirc I was able to prove it to him before he even checked me. So as far as me not being the trickster there shouldn't be a doubt in his mind, and if I'm not the trickster then there would be no way for me to fool his check.

I have no problem with him checking again or whatever but if golden is to be believed then I don't know how he could seriously be doubting me. But paranoia, so yeah.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:47 pm**

Sorsha wrote:Something else just occurred to me as I was washing dishes.

Golden shouldn't have too much doubt over my role. Iirc I was able to prove it to him before he even checked me. So as far as me not being the trickster there shouldn't be a doubt in his mind, and if I'm not the trickster then there would be no way for me to fool his check.

I have no problem with him checking again or whatever but if golden is to be believed then I don't know how he could seriously be doubting me. But paranoia, so yeah.

My own challenge is trusting you myself. Not trusting Golden to trust you. Proving yourself to another player, or your saying that that player should hav no doubt, doesn't help my own trust level at all.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:05 pm**

Understood!

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:06 pm**

I'm absolutely certain Sorsha is not the trickster. She is one of the few people that I have actual evidence that is clearly the role I believe her to be. I wasn't implying otherwise, I hope no one thought I was?

Sorry - I haven't put very much eye on this thread recently, I've been too focussed on the other game. My bad. I'm going to try and get back into this one shortly. It's just that the other has been taking a lot of my energy.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:47 pm**

Sorsha wrote:Something else just occurred to me as I was washing dishes.

Golden shouldn't have too much doubt over my role. Iirc I was able to prove it to him before he even checked me. So as far as me not being the trickster there shouldn't be a doubt in his mind, and if I'm not the trickster then there would be no way for me to fool his check.

I have no problem with him checking again or whatever but if golden is to be believed then I don't know how he could seriously be doubting me. But paranoia, so yeah.

I don't think anybody thinks your the Trickster.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:08 pm**

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Sorsha wrote:Something else just occurred to me as I was washing dishes.

Golden shouldn't have too much doubt over my role. Iirc I was able to prove it to him before he even checked me. So as far as me not being the trickster there shouldn't be a doubt in his mind, and if I'm not the trickster then there would be no way for me to fool his check.

I have no problem with him checking again or whatever but if golden is to be believed then I don't know how he could seriously be doubting me. But paranoia, so yeah.
I don't think anybody thinks your the Trickster.

her the trickster?

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:12 pm**

Dom wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Sorsha wrote:Something else just occurred to me as I was washing dishes.

Golden shouldn't have too much doubt over my role. Iirc I was able to prove it to him before he even checked me. So as far as me not being the trickster there shouldn't be a doubt in his mind, and if I'm not the trickster then there would be no way for me to fool his check.

I have no problem with him checking again or whatever but if golden is to be believed then I don't know how he could seriously be doubting me. But paranoia, so yeah.
I don't think anybody thinks your the Trickster.
her the trickster?

If you want to find the Trickster, you gotta think like a Trickster. They're tricksy like that.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:14 pm**

I know I never thought Sorsha was the Trickster; I think the role I believe her to be in not clearly a civvie role.

Sorry so absent, Saturdays are generally family days for me.

Voting TH, MM is not bad, TH is. If not the Lich, he is the Lichs' teammate.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:32 pm**

Well then MM and SVS, explain to me then how I've "tricked" or "played" Golden. You both seem to believe him civ, I have proven my role to him beyond his checks and you guys know I'm not the trickster. So how would I possibly be anything but civ here? I'm not understanding.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:34 pm**

Sorsha wrote:Well then MM and SVS, explain to me then how I've "tricked" or "played" Golden. You both seem to believe him civ, I have proven my role to him beyond his checks and you guys know I'm not the trickster. So how would I possibly be anything but civ here? I'm not understanding.

Role =/= Alignment

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:35 pm**

And you don't know Goldens role?

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:37 pm**

I may or may not know Golden's role. What does that have to do with this?

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:39 pm**

Because he is basically an alignment checker.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:42 pm**

Not a fan of some of this stuff.

I get where sorsha is coming from, and I still feel like she is more likely civ, I don't feel like there is a huge amount of room for doubt, but there is still room for doubt and for constructive and critical thinking.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:42 pm**

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I may or may not know Golden's role. What does that have to do with this?

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:47 pm**

Wait, you guys think MM is the Golem, and that he's protecting SVS? Is that why you're voting MM over her?

Because I don't think the Golem is protecting SVS at all, I think he's protecting me

The Golem killed Mac right after Mac voted for me.

MM, if it's true, and if I'm lynched, I know I can count on you to avenge me. Don't hurt my boy Draconus though, I think he's civ. I think Tranq fed him a pack of lies in square chat tbh. Hard to defend against these baddies if they're talking about me behind my back. Anyways I don't know that the civs have much of a chance after Golden led us like lemmings off a cliff, but maybe a serial killer on a rampage isn't the worst way for us to get back in this game.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:09 pm**

Sorsha wrote:Well then MM and SVS, explain to me then how I've "tricked" or "played" Golden. You both seem to believe him civ, I have proven my role to him beyond his checks and you guys know I'm not the trickster. So how would I possibly be anything but civ here? I'm not understanding.

Well to be blunt I think you are the Master Thief. That was why I wanted to know the MTs alignment. I think you told him your role, but lied about your alignment.

Posted: **Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:11 pm**

I mean, it is possible to trick people without being named "the Trickster", lol.

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:49 am**

Turnip Head wrote:Wait, you guys think MM is the Golem, and that he's protecting SVS? Is that why you're voting MM over her?

Because I don't think the Golem is protecting SVS at all, I think he's protecting me The Golem killed Mac right after Mac voted for me.

MM, if it's true, and if I'm lynched, I know I can count on you to avenge me. Don't hurt my boy Draconus though, I think he's civ. I think Tranq fed him a pack of lies in square chat tbh. Hard to defend against these baddies if they're talking about me behind my back. Anyways I don't know that the civs have much of a chance after Golden led us like lemmings off a cliff, but maybe a serial killer on a rampage isn't the worst way for us to get back in this game.

Where did this come from?

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:24 am**

After thinking on it more, you're right, I should not have even said anything

The drunk is strong in this one. Help the civs Obi-Marmot, you're our only hope.

I only said it because I want to picture the terror in the baddies' eyes as their best laid plans go to shit by getting the facts wrong

It's basic mathematics.

Why does everyone think you're protecting SVS, Marsh?

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:32 am**

If Gollem were protecting you, th, why have we only seen 1 gollem kill? And wouldn't the gollem have changed to sk when you died briefly?

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:01 am**

@ TH: Hmm. If the Golem is protecting you, then you shouldn't have any problem voting SVS today, right?

Dom wrote:
Tranq wrote: - lynch a role nobody needs dead
The only way you don't need his role dead is if you are Cabal.

Wrong. Read the roles :P

@ Hosts: Would the civvies need the Tarnished Golem dead if he chose a baddie as his watched over player?

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:20 am**

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Tranq wrote:@ MM: How realistic do you think the odds of a Sorsha lynch are today? I'd say pretty low, and i'm not even fully convinced she's bad atm. Vote TH if you want to lynch a Circle member.

Which reminds me. Golden, did you learn anything from your backtracking of Sorsha?
You keep telling me I can't win, yet you want me to do what you say?

I said if you want to lynch a Circle. If you'd rather see yourself lynched today, well that's up to you

LoRab wrote:I agree it makes more sense to lynch circle. But I also don't think we can depend on them to kill who we want to.

What makes you think that I'm circle?

Timmer has atleast 2-3 teammembers left. If it isn't Sorsha, then given his behavior Dom would make the most sense and as i think you and Dom are on the same team, that means you aswell. It's also possible you are civ and wrong about Dom. Or you are Circle and are playing him. Either way, my suspicion of you isn't set in stone and you helping to lynch a Circle member today could clear things up.

You said you agree it makes more sense to lynch Circle today. Where do you think your vote is going to?

In light of Matt's flip, what do you think of the Dom vs Matt stuff?

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:02 am**

Golden wrote:Sorry - I haven't put very much eye on this thread recently, I've been too focussed on the other game. My bad. I'm going to try and get back into this one shortly. It's just that the other has been taking a lot of my energy.

Jesus. Here i think we're in a possibly LYLO situation and you're off playing other games

Where do you think your vote is going to?
What do you think of the Golem protecting TH? :P

Turnip Head wrote:See, I don't think Tranq is a civvie at all I think he's on the same team as the Trickster, and they fudged Floyd's flip to lure us into a false sense of security. I do not think Floyd was bad, but he flipped bad, and Tranq was his harshest critic. As such, I doubt that team is only down to one member. His logic for going after Circle today is sound, but he's going after the wrong target in me, and he might have an ulterior motive in trying to keep SVS alive.

Tranq, do you know how you were rezzed? Who brought you back2lyfe?

If the Trickster is responsible for Floyd's flip (which is an if), i'd say it was to give Draconus or DFaraday some cred. They had been voting Floyd with me since i got rezzed and started voting Floyd. I feel like i can trust Draconus so i'm considering DFaraday as a possible dead Cabal. A better use of the Trickster ability would've been to mask DrWilgy's flip.

Either way, nice try

Yes i know how i was rezzed. My own actions brought me back

TH: You say my logic for going after the Circle today is sound. Who do you think Timmer's 2-3 teammates are? Where do you think your vote is going to?

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:08 am**

Tranq wrote:@ TH: Hmm. If the Golem is protecting you, then you shouldn't have any problem voting SVS today, right?

Dom wrote:
Tranq wrote: - lynch a role nobody needs dead
The only way you don't need his role dead is if you are Cabal.
Wrong. Read the roles :P

@ Hosts: Would the civvies need the Tarnished Golem dead if he chose a baddie as his watched over player?

No, I think you need to read the roles.

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:09 am**

It is painfully obvious that Floyd was not Cabal. Look at how SVS voted.

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:09 am**

Dom wrote:
S~V~S wrote:I don't know if Tranq is stupid enough to kill someone on the same square as he is, but I am not. Even if I had a kill, which I don't.

So Dom, who told you about MMs role?
Weren't you after TH for using Wifom????

Did you ever answer this Dom; who told you about MMs role?

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:15 am**

LoRab wrote:If Gollem were protecting you, th, why have we only seen 1 gollem kill? And wouldn't the gollem have changed to sk when you died briefly?

Because as I've said before, I was never really dead. I don't know why he hasn't killed more, maybe the Golem is trying to be discerning. Maybe he's not paying enough attention. I thought maybe he was dead, so

Tranq wrote:@ TH: Hmm. If the Golem is protecting you, then you shouldn't have any problem voting SVS today, right?

In theory I have no problem with this, but I thought we were going after Circle today.

Tranq wrote:If the Trickster is responsible for Floyd's flip (which is an if), i'd say it was to give Draconus or DFaraday some cred. They had been voting Floyd with me since i got rezzed and started voting Floyd. I feel like i can trust Draconus so i'm considering DFaraday as a possible dead Cabal. A better use of the Trickster ability would've been to mask DrWilgy's flip.

I don't think that makes sense. Literally everyone voted for Wilgy, why does it make sense to use the Trick on him? What would a baddie flip for Wilgy have told us about anyone? What did a civvie flip for Wilgy tell us about anyone? I don't see anyone making cases or earning cred based on Wilgy's flip.

Tranq wrote:TH: You say my logic for going after the Circle today is sound. Who do you think Timmer's 2-3 teammates are? Where do you think your vote is going to?

My vote is currently on Golden. Can we talk about Golden? Maybe Sorsha right there with him. You, if the Trickster is on the Circle team. fingersplints? She says I've given up... where has fingersplints been lately? She has barely participated and we're getting down to crunch time. Why are none of these players even being discussed? Maybe because they're all on the same team

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:20 am**

Tranq, you think Lorab is bad, and that Wilgy's flip was Trickster influenced... which team do you think Lorab is on, and which team is the Trickster on? Lorab is the only player I can see negatively benefiting from a Tricky Wilgy flip. Do you think the Trickster changed Wilgy's alignment to make Lorab look bad?

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:21 am**

I still think it makes much more sense that Floyd's role was Tricksterfied. Just trying to understand your point of view.

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:25 am**

Tranq wrote:@ Hosts: Would the civvies need the Tarnished Golem dead if he chose a baddie as his watched over player?

No, we would just need him to kill only baddies and to take his loss gracefully

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:27 am**

Turnip Head wrote:
Matt wrote:Turnip - What do you make of Dr Dre being on the bad guy team? You were insistent earlier that he was a civ in the first World game, as if by bringing that up, maybe people would leave you alone about it. I appreciate you voting Bass but I think seeing Dre with the baddies is kind of interesting.
I was not "insistent" about anything, you are rewriting history. Here is the post I made on the subject, you'll see it was made in direct response to Golden asking me what alignment I thought the doctor could be. You're acting like I was waving my arms around insisting he's a civvie role; I only brought it up because Golden questioned me, and I made no conclusion one way or the other.

But allow me to be more insistent now. Here are 8 roles I think are more likely to be bad than Dr. Von Drezenstein:

Long Con wrote:
Cursecrafter - Can create items to leave on a location that seem to have a minor positive effect, but may hide a greater negative one.
Misinformation/manipulation.

Long Con wrote:
Grim Shaman - Can use the powers of dead players, one-time use. *secrets*
Confirmed bad. Offensive/discovery role.

Long Con wrote:
Infectious Goblin - Targets a player to poison each night. Players who are poisoned get votes for them multiplied by their poison counters. Poison counters increase each night. Can poison an Item and leave it in a square for a player to find.
Confirmed bad. Offensive/vote manipulation.

Long Con wrote:
Lich of Khastor Keep - Cannot be nightkilled while his phylactery exists. Each night, the Lich may discover the location of one player. Can stop one lynch.
Bad based on name alone. Godfather type role.

Long Con wrote:
Possessing Entity - *secrets*
No way this creep is civvie.

Long Con wrote:
Puppet Master - Can control the night powers of another player in close proximity.
Nightmare Fuel. Manipulation of others.

Long Con wrote:
Scrippleskitz - Starts out each lynch with -3 votes. *secrets*
Negative votes is not typically a civvie power, but *secrets* makes it hard to know for sure.

Long Con wrote:
Trickster - The Trickster can appear as any role to a role check, even after death. Can appear as any player in temp BTSC. The Trickster may leave a message behind in a square twice in the game, and may cast an illusion once in the game, causing a lynched person to seem as though they were the role of his choice.
Manipulation/misinformation.

You might notice somebody missing So as a bonus, here's #9:

Long Con wrote:
Splinter Twin - In addition to moving, Splinter Twin can choose to send his holographic self out two squares. He will enter BTSC with people on the same square as his holographic self, and only his physical form can suffer from targeted effects. His physical form can only been seen from one square away by ranged targeters.
I know we got a baddie result with this role with Floyd. But when I look at this role it doesn't scream baddie to me. It is defensive in nature, able to protect itself from harm. No offensive capabilities whatsoever.

I think Floyd's flip might have been Trickster influenced.

TH your last post just reminded me of this one; I see you do not have the MasterThief in there. That role steals items in addition to possibly info. Did this role not strike you as potentially baddie? More so than Skippleskrits, whom you say is potentially a civ?

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:33 am**

I don't think Master Thief has to be bad. Llama's game had a civvie item-stealer. No, I do not think the Thief is more likely to be bad than Skrippleshitz. If you think Sorsha is the Thief... well how long have you thought that? You haven't mentioned her until lately. When did it strike you that that role could potentially be baddie?

You did not comment on that post at the time I made it SVS... what do you think of the point I was making with it, that Floyd's role does not seem baddie in nature?

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:08 pm**

Tranq wrote:@ Hosts: Would the civvies need the Tarnished Golem dead if he chose a baddie as his watched over player?

No team needs the Tarnished Golem dead to win. He mimics the Win Condition of the player he's watching over, but doesn't technically join their team.

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:15 pm**

I thought he might have been recruited

His buddy Luke was on the team, and I thought his activity level changed. Also, if they flipped Floyd bad, why not use a baddier sounding role name? That was another reason I thought he might have been recruited.

I think my thoughts on Sorsha changed when she led the lynch on Bass, a civ. I thought she was an info role, and she was single minded on Bass, and I thought she had info. But he wasn't, I think she really thinks I am bad, and she believes she needs me dead to win, and lynching Bass, who many thought to be the last Cabal, was the best way to do that.

Not an immensely civvie move in my eyes. Neither is going after MM, who is not bad, JUST to get to me. That was when I changed my mind, when she lynched Bass, Yeah.

And I disagree;I think the Master Thief sounds worse than both Skippleskritz & The Splinter role.

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:32 pm**

See I thought Golden had info on that same lynch. He said he was "more or less 100% sure" Bass was bad; as I've been harping on, what does that even mean? He hedged his bets there while still sounding confident.

I think if Sorsha is bad, it's likely she is working with Golden. So what do you think of Golden? And where has Golden been during this crucial lynch?

I could vote for Sorsha though. Would you consider voting that way too?

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:37 pm**

Long Con wrote:
Tranq wrote:@ Hosts: Would the civvies need the Tarnished Golem dead if he chose a baddie as his watched over player?
No team needs the Tarnished Golem dead to win. He mimics the Win Condition of the player he's watching over, but doesn't technically join their team.

Is this the answer you were looking for Tranq? No we don't need the Golem dead. I suppose we can ask him nicely to not kill anyone and lose the game for himself.

Posted: **Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:43 pm**

I have also been leery of her since the day G9 blew up.

Since Mac is dead, I told LC I wanted to do this, and he did not tell me no, so..

Mac claimed to be a secret role. He explained how a hidden role worked, which involves another player, and is not important or anything I think LC would be OK with me discussing, but it was plausible, and I was not the only one to be told this. After G9 blew up, I checked the map, and hit the magnifying glass, and it took me to the hosts photobucket for Mafia. I got nosy, and in the middle of the role pictures for the game was this:

Amnesiac Psychopath. This is NOT the role he claimed to be.

NOT a friendly looking guy, and not in the role list. And I got the impression Sorsha trusted him, and she got pretty upset when he died. So there was that too.

But mainly it was the Bass lynch. She threw Bass to the wind in order to get to me, that is the short and the long of it imo.

Linki, I think Golden is a civvie.

The Syndicate

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Re: Mafia: A World Reborn Game Thread - Day 13

Re: Mafia: A World Reborn Game Thread - Day 13

Re: Mafia: A World Reborn Game Thread - Day 13

Re: Mafia: A World Reborn Game Thread - Day 13

Re: Mafia: A World Reborn Game Thread - Day 13

Re: Mafia: A World Reborn Game Thread - Day 13