The Syndicate

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:35 am**

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:56 am I kinda think LC is wolf. I'm not super confident because the Arts and Crafts did show he can play a decent wolf game, but from ALL of the other wolfgames including JOATED he doesn't show the same solvy approach I see in every one of his town games.

Also Arts and Crafts was a fluke win I didn't play that great of a game. Town ate itself alive starting with the CFD on a town when the wagon was on a maf member Day 1. I should not have won that.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:35 am**

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:54 am OKAY SO:

Lime Coke as Blue Kang:

GAME 1:
Lime's Light Matrix 13er: (TOWN)
God townread on Alexa > Defends hard
#139 - Solvy post where he outs reasons on a non-Alexa (LDies - Susses him for reasons that aren't related to going after Alexa)
#234 - Reads Dota town and outlines the thought process. This is in line with the town meta I think I have for LC
I'm going to ignore the aggro in this game as LC has explicitly said they're trying to tone that part down.

GAME 2:
Deck Mafia #002: (TOWN)
#151 slightly solvy on Appel not at the same level.
#164 More of what I expect out of town!LC, solid thought process explained
#298 Directly interacts with Wiml and bounces reads off him, explains his thought process again
#347 Is a bit weaker in terms of explanation but still an attempt to outline thought process.
#361 More explanation again

I'm going to skip lmao is scum.

GAME 3:
Insomnia can't rand noob Vig 10er: (MAFIA)
No real outing of reads thought process.
#106 where he outs townreads without much thought process added.
This feels like kinda a bad game, lemme look for another.

GAME 4:
Arts and Crafts: (MAFIA)
#37 and #38 actually involve attempts to explain the process of how he reaches the reads
Hmmmm
This game actually has some of what I was considering townier of BK. Though it's not as forceful and LC tries to be diplomatic a lot (#517 trying to avoid clashes)

these game are a better depictor of his town game.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/30377
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/31177 hes mystery player and also in a stacked lobby.

if you notice he just finds a few townreads and then just more or less trends downhill after that. if they get fossed he'll shield and if someone pushes them he'll vote them. other than that he doesnt go out of his way to fos people, you can see me pressure him for that in both games.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/31067

this is one scum game u linked, 5 posts into the game he feels compelled to make a sr, and the reasoning is " votes appletini-
Reads to me don't feel real and are just thrown together. She might not care because she's mafia."

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/se ... d=11830862

the other scum game u linked, he again makes a sr based on lvl 0 reasoning "votes awesome 5000- Awesome is doing nothing game related."

if u notice when hes scum, he feels pressured to look like hes contributing and he feels obliged he has to fos someone. he will often do so, and do it very early for very weak reasonings. so yeah, in contrary to most players, outing a few trs early game hes confident in and then coasting is just how LC plays as town.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:40 am**

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:35 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:56 am I kinda think LC is wolf. I'm not super confident because the Arts and Crafts did show he can play a decent wolf game, but from ALL of the other wolfgames including JOATED he doesn't show the same solvy approach I see in every one of his town games.
Also Arts and Crafts was a fluke win I didn't play that great of a game. Town ate itself alive starting with the CFD on a town when the wagon was on a maf member Day 1. I should not have won that.

You imitated town playstyle better than other scumgames so.

I'd say it was good work either way.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:41 am**

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:35 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:54 am OKAY SO:

Lime Coke as Blue Kang:

GAME 1:
Lime's Light Matrix 13er: (TOWN)
God townread on Alexa > Defends hard
#139 - Solvy post where he outs reasons on a non-Alexa (LDies - Susses him for reasons that aren't related to going after Alexa)
#234 - Reads Dota town and outlines the thought process. This is in line with the town meta I think I have for LC
I'm going to ignore the aggro in this game as LC has explicitly said they're trying to tone that part down.

GAME 2:
Deck Mafia #002: (TOWN)
#151 slightly solvy on Appel not at the same level.
#164 More of what I expect out of town!LC, solid thought process explained
#298 Directly interacts with Wiml and bounces reads off him, explains his thought process again
#347 Is a bit weaker in terms of explanation but still an attempt to outline thought process.
#361 More explanation again

I'm going to skip lmao is scum.

GAME 3:
Insomnia can't rand noob Vig 10er: (MAFIA)
No real outing of reads thought process.
#106 where he outs townreads without much thought process added.
This feels like kinda a bad game, lemme look for another.

GAME 4:
Arts and Crafts: (MAFIA)
#37 and #38 actually involve attempts to explain the process of how he reaches the reads
Hmmmm
This game actually has some of what I was considering townier of BK. Though it's not as forceful and LC tries to be diplomatic a lot (#517 trying to avoid clashes)
these game are a better depictor of his town game.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/30377
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/31177 hes mystery player and also in a stacked lobby.

if you notice he just finds a few townreads and then just more or less trends downhill after that. if they get fossed he'll shield and if someone pushes them he'll vote them. other than that he doesnt go out of his way to fos people, you can see me pressure him for that in both games.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/31067

this is one scum game u linked, 5 posts into the game he feels compelled to make a sr, and the reasoning is " votes appletini-
Reads to me don't feel real and are just thrown together. She might not care because she's mafia."

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/se ... d=11830862

the other scum game u linked, he again makes a sr based on lvl 0 reasoning "votes awesome 5000- Awesome is doing nothing game related."

if u notice when hes scum, he feels pressured to look like hes contributing and he feels obliged he has to fos someone. he will often do so, and do it very early for very weak reasonings. so yeah, in contrary to most players, outing a few trs early game hes confident in and then coasting is just how LC plays as town.

Read those town games again.

Outside of a shield, he also provides reads (Not always scum reads) where he doesn't just say "X is town" like he has in this game.

Both games there are reads where he's like "They did this which I think is a towny thought process because blah."

THAT is the thing I'm not seeing in non-Arts&Crafts wolf games.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:42 am**

That being said, I'll take a look back over for the scumread meta you just mentioned.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:42 am**

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Named-18er

thoughts on this BK scumgame? i'm going to run to the store but i'll look at it when im back because iirc he had people fooled for awhile

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:43 am**

Endsr’s push on LC is both towny and possibly decent

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:44 am**

I gotta be on a computer to be able to respond to your iso case on me because I post in a way to make it easier for people to read. Which won't be until later today when I'm off of work, very sorry about that but we have a full extra day so it shouldn't be THAT much of a loss time wise.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:44 am**

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:13 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:24 pm
Transcend wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:16 pm brad why are you voting ilario
Because Illario does whatever he can to NOT townread me when he and I are town. Even when I'm obvious as fuck town through a WHOLE game, he'll keep me at null and refuse to move me.
This game he started off with a townread on me. That actually caught me off guard and pinged me.
This is the closest read he has to a thought process this game.

ill be honest, i havent read his iso this game,

but ill defs keep all this in mind when i do get to iso'ing him

if this is his only read then ig ill be concerned

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:46 am**

LMAOOOOOO I’m kinda laughing but I also feel very bad for transcend just thinking of the idea that he was very towny in hindsight and he got yeeted for pushing LC and he might have been right

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:46 am**

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:42 am https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Named-18er

thoughts on this BK scumgame? i'm going to run to the store but i'll look at it when im back because iirc he had people fooled for awhile

This is probably my best scum game.

Which is a shame because the rest of my team sucked.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:48 am**

I gotta get off and be productive at work.

I'll be on after a few hours and will respond to the case as I said.

Later.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:48 am**

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:42 am That being said, I'll take a look back over for the scumread meta you just mentioned.

Did you read the vigilante 18er?

That's the one BK wolf game where he actually fooled me, although admittedly because he invoked his emotional tell when I pushed him that made me back off him at the time.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:49 am**

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:42 am https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Named-18er

thoughts on this BK scumgame? i'm going to run to the store but i'll look at it when im back because iirc he had people fooled for awhile

Oh this one lol.

I hadn't noticed it was the same alexa linked.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:50 am**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:23 am
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:21 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:17 am
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:16 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:53 am
ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:52 am If I am misreading someone It is likely mac, but this is my own personal pet read that nobody is obliged to follow.
Your read on me is unwelcome and I dismiss it. Go back to scumreading me if your conviction on it is like this. You may as well.
i have conviction on the read, but im not gonna drown everyone out and tell them my opinion>theirs and they have to listen to it.
that is not what the post I quoted was doing in the slightest
i get tthat, but u think my tr on u lacks conviction, but it doesnt. im like 95% sure ur just town, like i would put u on vvv of my list. the disclaimer "If I am misreading someone It is likely mac" is added because majority of the lobby doesnt feel the same way, so if everyone is against me it could simply be that i am wrong and tunneled to think my tr on u is correct.
if you need to randomly point out under no pressure that its your worst read it doesn't sound like 95% unless you have the solve

i think im pretty close to the solve

essoa u alexa have been consistently towny
ender has been towny today, tsp has been towny in his own unique way

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:50 am**

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:46 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:42 am https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Named-18er

thoughts on this BK scumgame? i'm going to run to the store but i'll look at it when im back because iirc he had people fooled for awhile
This is probably my best scum game.

Which is a shame because the rest of my team sucked.

It wasn't a shame for me when I buried them though.

Sorry, couldn't resist lol.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:52 am**

illario remind me why you're acumreading me outside of preflight associations with Nanook?

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:52 am**

*preflip

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:53 am**

LC's play in the 18er is kinda like his town meta.

Or what I'm calling his town meta at least?

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:53 am**

But like

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:54 am**

That doesn't remove that his play in this game I have only noticed in scum games.

And maybe a bit in that one 3 hour towngame.

I don't think that can be put on the same level as a 48hr day game.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:54 am**

I am really bad at getting to sleep help.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:54 am**

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:53 am LC's play in the 18er is kinda like his town meta.

Or what I'm calling his town meta at least?

I actually mistakenly said he was in town meta that game lol.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:56 am**

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:54 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:53 am LC's play in the 18er is kinda like his town meta.

Or what I'm calling his town meta at least?
I actually mistakenly said he was in town meta that game lol.

I mean I can see why you thought so.

Actually solid game from him.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:59 am**

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:52 am illario remind me why you're acumreading me outside of preflight associations with Nanook?

Oh it has nothing to do with nanook,

Essentially: I think ur playing with a survival mindset more than a solving mindset. An example is that u trd trans when the lobby was townrrading him, then found him scummy when his consensus changed. You looked to reconsider you read on him towards eod when essoa was thinking he’s town and when trans had towny moments but you also said lines such as “trans has to be the hammer today” and that type of suggestion didn’t line up with everything else you were saying imo.

A similar thing happened a bit earlier just when u cased mac, the timing of it felt right at the same time that people were ganging up on mac tthe most. Ender has been getting townier today and myself and essoa are starting to tr him, u mentioned him being towny pretty recently too despite being at odds with him for most of d1. It just feels like ur adjusting ur read a lot based around what essoa and other consensus slots are saying, instead of organically coming to those conclusions yourself through your own scumhunting.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:01 am**

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:52 am illario remind me why you're acumreading me outside of preflight associations with Nanook?

And comments like that feel like they’re made to discredit the validity of reads, you’re trying to make my read seem weak my labeling it as a pre-flip association when my read on you has nothing to do with nanooks alignnment. I just independently find other slots in the poe to be very towny rn, combined with the points mentioned in my previous post as well as the points esooa brought up earlier

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:01 am**

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:59 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:52 am illario remind me why you're acumreading me outside of preflight associations with Nanook?

Oh it has nothing to do with nanook,

Essentially: I think ur playing with a survival mindset more than a solving mindset. An example is that u trd trans when the lobby was townrrading him, then found him scummy when his consensus changed. You looked to reconsider you read on him towards eod when essoa was thinking he’s town and when trans had towny moments but you also said lines such as “trans has to be the hammer today” and that type of suggestion didn’t line up with everything else you were saying imo.

A similar thing happened a bit earlier just when u cased mac, the timing of it felt right at the same time that people were ganging up on mac tthe most. Ender has been getting townier today and myself and essoa are starting to tr him, u mentioned him being towny pretty recently too despite being at odds with him for most of d1. It just feels like ur adjusting ur read a lot based around what essoa and other consensus slots are saying, instead of organically coming to those conclusions yourself through your own scumhunting.

Im mildly disappointed but also not surprised lol.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:03 am**

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:01 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:52 am illario remind me why you're acumreading me outside of preflight associations with Nanook?
And comments like that feel like they’re made to discredit the validity of reads, you’re trying to make my read seem weak my labeling it as a pre-flip association when my read on you has nothing to do with nanooks alignnment. I just independently find other slots in the poe to be very towny rn, combined with the points mentioned in my previous post as well as the points esooa brought up earlier

I was mostly asking out of interest tbh.

I mean I the nicest way possible I don't think you need my help to discredit that read on me lol.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:10 am**

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:59 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:52 am illario remind me why you're acumreading me outside of preflight associations with Nanook?

Oh it has nothing to do with nanook,

Essentially: I think ur playing with a survival mindset more than a solving mindset. An example is that u trd trans when the lobby was townrrading him, then found him scummy when his consensus changed. You looked to reconsider you read on him towards eod when essoa was thinking he’s town and when trans had towny moments but you also said lines such as “trans has to be the hammer today” and that type of suggestion didn’t line up with everything else you were saying imo.

A similar thing happened a bit earlier just when u cased mac, the timing of it felt right at the same time that people were ganging up on mac tthe most. Ender has been getting townier today and myself and essoa are starting to tr him, u mentioned him being towny pretty recently too despite being at odds with him for most of d1. It just feels like ur adjusting ur read a lot based around what essoa and other consensus slots are saying, instead of organically coming to those conclusions yourself through your own scumhunting.

So to actually address all of this:

- The thread never townread Transcend.
- Even if the thread did townread Transcend me changing my read wouldn't mean much anyway because there must have been valid reasons for the other people to townread him as well.
- You literally acknowledged at EoD1 that I was attempting to save matt and gave up once he started self voting. Don't act like I stopped trying to save him because he got scumread lol.
- Yes, I said that matt had to be a policy chop if he insisted on self voting when he was at tied wagons with Mac. That was while I was defending him yes.
- I was LITERALLY asked to explain my scumread on Mac by Esooa. Read the post I'm responding to first please.
- I also mentioned why Ender was town earlier. "Ender is getting townier today" and then you scumread me for agreeing? Yes I also think he has been townier today that's not a read personal to you surprisingly.

I'll make my own reads and not be dictated by others but thanks.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:15 am**

Lol oops I didn't actually expect to get annoyed by that as much as I did.

It's just that completely discrediting the way I'm playing the game as "oh you're not even trying to solve" is bad and you should probably feel a little bad for it lol.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:20 am**

Okay so what’s ur poe rn?

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:20 am**

In light of everything that happened the last hour or so

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:23 am**

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:20 am Okay so what’s ur poe rn?

My immediate PoE is Mac/Nook/TSP.

If there's a wolf outside of that then it's probably exactly one in Ender/LC.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:24 am**

What’s ur opinion on tsps little gambit thing he tried to do with Alexa just then? Or like anything he’s done today

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:25 am**

I don't even know what the gambit was

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:25 am**

I think Ender doing a full meta dive on LC is in his wolf range but it seems weird he'd try so hard when if he's a wolf he's firmly in his slank meta.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:25 am**

ugh i think fedex lost my package

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:25 am**

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:25 am I don't even know what the gambit was

^^^

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:26 am**

Do you mean TSP voting alexa?

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:28 am**

i assume that's what he means but i don't understand why it was villagery

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:30 am**

@ilario want to look at this Wiml wolf game with me for comparisons?
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ame-Thread

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:33 am**

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:42 am https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Named-18er

thoughts on this BK scumgame? i'm going to run to the store but i'll look at it when im back because iirc he had people fooled for awhile

The first thing I notice: His immediate treatment of my slot in that game is very different to this game. It’s like he was approaching me very carefully in that game. And when he tries to defend me and anne calls him out on it he doesn’t really stand his ground. He asks a bunch of questions that go nowhere. Throws a random vote, which aligns with my meta of him outting very weak random votes as scum to look like he’s solving. His reasoning here was “throwing this on. Few things I’m not a fan of there”

Seems like very generic scumtells tbh

Tbh I didn’t find him that game until some point after d2 since I didn’t notice him that much. He fell under the radar quite hard

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:33 am**

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:30 am @ilario want to look at this Wiml wolf game with me for comparisons?
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ame-Thread

LMAOO @alexa i had a feeling youd ask that so I already started

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:36 am**

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:26 am Do you mean TSP voting alexa?

Yeahh

Idk it just seems random and like I can’t fathom why he would be doing anything he’s doing if he was mafia
What does he gain by doing that as scum?

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:36 am**

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:33 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:42 am https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Named-18er

thoughts on this BK scumgame? i'm going to run to the store but i'll look at it when im back because iirc he had people fooled for awhile
The first thing I notice: His immediate treatment of my slot in that game is very different to this game. It’s like he was approaching me very carefully in that game. And when he tries to defend me and anne calls him out on it he doesn’t really stand his ground. He asks a bunch of questions that go nowhere. Throws a random vote, which aligns with my meta of him outting very weak random votes as scum to look like he’s solving. His reasoning here was “throwing this on. Few things I’m not a fan of there”

Seems like very generic scumtells tbh

Tbh I didn’t find him that game until some point after d2 since I didn’t notice him that much. He fell under the radar quite hard

i agree, think from memory he's been at lot less awkward this game but i need to spot-check

ilario wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:33 am
alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:30 am @ilario want to look at this Wiml wolf game with me for comparisons?
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ame-Thread
LMAOO @alexa i had a feeling youd ask that so I already started

LMAOOO

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:37 am**

i am honestly really bad at effective meta casing/reading based on games i'm not in

the main thing i usually do is if i see a generic "towntell" from someone i check and see if it's in their scumrange or not / if they can post that way as scum

but some people are really good at it lol

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:38 am**

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:51 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:50 pm [VOTE: wiml] aubergine

Ilario still scum too tbh
Do you genuinely think I could be partnered with illario?

I don't see a compelling reason you can't be?

Regardless they're independent scum reads

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:38 am**

He also spends a lot of time trying to look like he’s solving without actually solving. Look at post #872 in that game.

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:40 am**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:46 am ilario why is nanook a better slanker chop than tsp?

ironically theyre both townreading me and literally nobody else

I'm townreading a lot more than just you lolol

Alexa, ender, esooa

Posted: **Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:40 am**

alexa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:37 am i am honestly really bad at effective meta casing/reading based on games i'm not in

the main thing i usually do is if i see a generic "towntell" from someone i check and see if it's in their scumrange or not / if they can post that way as scum

but some people are really good at it lol

Same, I almost never read past games. I only do it if someone asks me to. I need to understand the context to be able to make meta reads and it’s hard to know the context by just reading an iso of one person.

The Syndicate

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