Re: Jack Attack Mafia (Day 3)
Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:30 am
[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] why are you doubting the POE at this stage in the game?
so what makes you think this is mafia alison trying to get a misexecute on innocent tony rather than innocent alison disbelieving tony's explanationJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:04 pm Also put off by this. I deliberately exaggerated my angst about Tony's "slip" and this is precisely the kind of post I thought a mafioso might come up with if he is innocent.
Because it is objectively correct to do so. Epi was 100% not the execute on Day 2. At that point in time, Pawn/Colin were the best execute targets. Even if I believe Epi is scum, it is still better to go after people who have higher scum equity. I don't appreciate being told I am scum because I am playing the game correctly
good. help me execute epi thenHally wrote: ↑Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:14 pm yea i like the epi/alison world
i think they each have relatively high chance of being a wolf individually and they also make sense as a pair
think this is the pair i wanna yeet in today
if this is the correct world we’ll have plenty of time to find the third, whether it’s kitsu or colin or whoever
why are you pushing a me/epi/kitsu world then?
You didn’t give the explanation a chance.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:31 amso what makes you think this is mafia alison trying to get a misexecute on innocent tony rather than innocent alison disbelieving tony's explanationJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:04 pm Also put off by this. I deliberately exaggerated my angst about Tony's "slip" and this is precisely the kind of post I thought a mafioso might come up with if he is innocent.
I’m not chopping Kitsu before you. That’s the point. I don’t think Kitsu looks bad except with very specific pairings (you and/or Epi).Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:41 amwhy are you pushing a me/epi/kitsu world then?
also I suggest you vote epi if you believe in that world since I'm going to help you execute him but he isn't going to help you execute me, so unless you have compelling reason to believe that I am significantly more likely to be scum than epi, you should be helping me bus my scum buddy.
Who are you talking to? The current wagons are in that group of four you provided.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:40 am I'm going to say it right now: if you are suspecting Kitsu, you are wrong to do so. If you genuinely think Kitsu is scum, then catch her at endgame. It is important to sort the POE [Alison/Epi/TSP/Colin] first before even thinking about executing Kitsu. I would go so far to say that it is wrong to execute or investigate anyone outside of the POE barring strong new revelations like a bad scumslip or a cop check. I strongly believe that it is in town's best interests to sort those that need the most sorting first before bringing people out of the towncore. I still believe Kitsu is town, both from her posts and I believe that the miller misclaim points to her being town as well.
why would I give an explanation to which my first reaction was disbelief and skepticism a chanceJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:42 amYou didn’t give the explanation a chance.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:31 amso what makes you think this is mafia alison trying to get a misexecute on innocent tony rather than innocent alison disbelieving tony's explanationJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:04 pm Also put off by this. I deliberately exaggerated my angst about Tony's "slip" and this is precisely the kind of post I thought a mafioso might come up with if he is innocent.
I'm talking to all the people who are theorizing about Epi/Alison/Kitsu universes. I think that universe is silly and that theorizing about it should be left until endgameJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:46 amWho are you talking to? The current wagons are in that group of four you provided.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:40 am I'm going to say it right now: if you are suspecting Kitsu, you are wrong to do so. If you genuinely think Kitsu is scum, then catch her at endgame. It is important to sort the POE [Alison/Epi/TSP/Colin] first before even thinking about executing Kitsu. I would go so far to say that it is wrong to execute or investigate anyone outside of the POE barring strong new revelations like a bad scumslip or a cop check. I strongly believe that it is in town's best interests to sort those that need the most sorting first before bringing people out of the towncore. I still believe Kitsu is town, both from her posts and I believe that the miller misclaim points to her being town as well.
Because that’s how the town mind tends to work in a state of uncertainty.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:46 amwhy would I give an explanation to which my first reaction was disbelief and skepticism a chanceJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:42 amYou didn’t give the explanation a chance.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:31 amso what makes you think this is mafia alison trying to get a misexecute on innocent tony rather than innocent alison disbelieving tony's explanationJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:04 pm Also put off by this. I deliberately exaggerated my angst about Tony's "slip" and this is precisely the kind of post I thought a mafioso might come up with if he is innocent.
The current motion of the game is already in alignment for what you’re calling for.
I don't give things that I find obviously scummy a chance, and neither should you. If something could go one way or another, feel free to weigh the possibilities and to think about all sides of the equation, but if something is scum, it's scum, and doubting yourself about it is more likely to lead to you being manipulated by TWTBW arguments than to actual lead you in the direction of the truth. Will you be wrong sometimes anyway? Yes. But the possibility of being wrong shouldn't preclude you from going "you know what, this is scum. Exe it." Sometimes you will not be correct, as I was incorrect on LC day 1. But you should do it anyway because when something is obviously scummy, most of the time it's going to be scum. That is what it means to be scummy.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:48 am Because that’s how the town mind tends to work in a state of uncertainty.
Please read my posts and see how I am explicitly arguing against people theorizing that Kitsu is scum in the first place. I don't really care if they're voting Kitsu or not. It is incorrect to undermine the integrity of the towncore, and by extension the integrity of the POE, by casting doubt on Kitsu.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:51 am Hell now Kitsu has NO votes. You’re preaching to the choir.
This is fear-mongering. Kitsu is fine. The connections folks have drawn only matter if you and/or Epignosis flip mafia, and even then it’s still a dialogue. If you in particular were to flip town after going on about this, it’s something people would have to consider.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:54 amPlease read my posts and see how I am explicitly arguing against people theorizing that Kitsu is scum in the first place. I don't really care if they're voting Kitsu or not. It is incorrect to undermine the integrity of the towncore, and by extension the integrity of the POE, by casting doubt on Kitsu.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:51 am Hell now Kitsu has NO votes. You’re preaching to the choir.
I don’t believe that you believe it is so obviously scummy that it warrants this perspective. I don’t think Tony’s explanation is even unreasonable.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:53 amI don't give things that I find obviously scummy a chance, and neither should you. If something could go one way or another, feel free to weigh the possibilities and to think about all sides of the equation, but if something is scum, it's scum, and doubting yourself about it is more likely to lead to you being manipulated by TWTBW arguments than to actual lead you in the direction of the truth. Will you be wrong sometimes anyway? Yes. But the possibility of being wrong shouldn't preclude you from going "you know what, this is scum. Exe it." Sometimes you will not be correct, as I was incorrect on LC day 1. But you should do it anyway because when something is obviously scummy, most of the time it's going to be scum. That is what it means to be scummy.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:48 am Because that’s how the town mind tends to work in a state of uncertainty.
which is why I'm saying it, so it's my legacy when I flip townJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:56 amThis is fear-mongering. Kitsu is fine. The connections folks have drawn only matter if you and/or Epignosis flip mafia, and even then it’s still a dialogue. If you in particular were to flip town after going on about this, it’s something people would have to consider.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:54 amPlease read my posts and see how I am explicitly arguing against people theorizing that Kitsu is scum in the first place. I don't really care if they're voting Kitsu or not. It is incorrect to undermine the integrity of the towncore, and by extension the integrity of the POE, by casting doubt on Kitsu.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:51 am Hell now Kitsu has NO votes. You’re preaching to the choir.
Tony's explanation was hella unreasonable sorry. It creates ludicrous leaps of logic where those leaps are extremely unjustified. For it to make sense, he would have to come to the conclusion that there exists some kind of serial killer meta that sprityo would follow, that this meta consists of staying in a game despite being inactive instead of subbing out, and that he can assess all of this based on a sample size of one game. That is unreasonable thinking and its conclusions have been proven very wrong.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:58 amI don’t believe that you believe it is so obviously scummy that it warrants this perspective. I don’t think Tony’s explanation is even unreasonable.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:53 amI don't give things that I find obviously scummy a chance, and neither should you. If something could go one way or another, feel free to weigh the possibilities and to think about all sides of the equation, but if something is scum, it's scum, and doubting yourself about it is more likely to lead to you being manipulated by TWTBW arguments than to actual lead you in the direction of the truth. Will you be wrong sometimes anyway? Yes. But the possibility of being wrong shouldn't preclude you from going "you know what, this is scum. Exe it." Sometimes you will not be correct, as I was incorrect on LC day 1. But you should do it anyway because when something is obviously scummy, most of the time it's going to be scum. That is what it means to be scummy.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:48 am Because that’s how the town mind tends to work in a state of uncertainty.
because he has an established meta of not bussing? you know, the meta that you told me about?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:01 amVery well. I promise to take that legacy seriously if you should end up chopped/killed and flip town.
Why do you suggest Epignosis would not help chop you?
I didn’t realize you were still operating exclusively in the “bussing” territory with that comment. Okay.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:02 ambecause he has an established meta of not bussing? you know, the meta that you told me about?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:01 amVery well. I promise to take that legacy seriously if you should end up chopped/killed and flip town.
Why do you suggest Epignosis would not help chop you?
Your arguments have been terrible.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:07 am [epi/TSP/colin/alison] <- sort these. I don't care if you execute me as long as you follow the POE on everyone else and listen to my fucking legacy after I'm dead.
if the game still hasn't ended, execute JJJ (his arguments these past few pages have been extraordinarily bad) and sabie. If the game still hasn't ended, only then do you start tinfoiling about who in the towncore is a deep wolf.
I don't care what you think. I'm writing how I see the game and I expect that legacy to be followed when I am proven to be a townie one way or another. Your attempts to attack me have been extremely misguided at best, and outright wolf-motivated at worst. Nothing you have said or alleged about me has been correct and I am extremely annoyed that people like Wisp and sabie are actually taking the case on me seriously. I basically disagree with everything they've done over the course of this game so I'm not surprised that they're doing something else I disagree with though.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:07 amYour arguments have been terrible.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:07 am [epi/TSP/colin/alison] <- sort these. I don't care if you execute me as long as you follow the POE on everyone else and listen to my fucking legacy after I'm dead.
if the game still hasn't ended, execute JJJ (his arguments these past few pages have been extraordinarily bad) and sabie. If the game still hasn't ended, only then do you start tinfoiling about who in the towncore is a deep wolf.
just reread the page and realized that this could be construed as an instruction to vote epi. no clue if that was what motivated the vote on epi a couple of posts above, but just to be extra safe, I am instructing JaggedJimmyJay to vote for whoever they wish to.Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:41 amwhy are you pushing a me/epi/kitsu world then?
also I suggest you vote epi if you believe in that world since I'm going to help you execute him but he isn't going to help you execute me, so unless you have compelling reason to believe that I am significantly more likely to be scum than epi, you should be helping me bus my scum buddy.
Fair enough. I don't think that is getting us anywhere either.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:14 am Anyway, further debate over whose logic is the most valid and sound does not win this game. This dialogue has served it’s purpose for me and I will sleep on it. I hope others will share their perspectives.
Whaddya think of Alison’s most recent posts?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:06 am Hey, I know I'm dropping off today. Heart's not in it right now. Ping me with questions.
Valid concern, and I appreciate you fighting for it. Whether the mafia lie in the "generic" POE group we've been rehashing for days or more on the fringe (a la Kitsu), I think the game is okay. The worrisome scenarios come if someone being "confirmed" is a mafioso, or someone just outside the suspect group like sabie. Do you have any such concerns?ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:29 amI’m telling you it’s a good idea to keep other suspects in mind.
You keep raising this point in defense of yourself. Who are my teammates?Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:02 ambecause he has an established meta of not bussing? you know, the meta that you told me about?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:01 amVery well. I promise to take that legacy seriously if you should end up chopped/killed and flip town.
Why do you suggest Epignosis would not help chop you?
Not really right now. Will have to see the game get whittled down a little before I start to majorly rethink some people I’ve sorted in my head.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:36 amValid concern, and I appreciate you fighting for it. Whether the mafia lie in the "generic" POE group we've been rehashing for days or more on the fringe (a la Kitsu), I think the game is okay. The worrisome scenarios come if someone being "confirmed" is a mafioso, or someone just outside the suspect group like sabie. Do you have any such concerns?ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:29 amI’m telling you it’s a good idea to keep other suspects in mind.
Your vote is on Tony. Does this still reflect your current feelings? I'd call him a "generic POE" name.ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:39 amNot really right now. Will have to see the game get whittled down a little before I start to majorly rethink some people I’ve sorted in my head.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:36 amValid concern, and I appreciate you fighting for it. Whether the mafia lie in the "generic" POE group we've been rehashing for days or more on the fringe (a la Kitsu), I think the game is okay. The worrisome scenarios come if someone being "confirmed" is a mafioso, or someone just outside the suspect group like sabie. Do you have any such concerns?ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:29 amI’m telling you it’s a good idea to keep other suspects in mind.
He remains a suspect but I can’t say I feel very sure of his status. I still have to check out Epi’s posts so if I switch it’s probably either him, Kitsu (also in my POE) and maybe Alison because I feel like I have to check that out now.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:40 amYour vote is on Tony. Does this still reflect your current feelings? I'd call him a "generic POE" name.ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:39 amNot really right now. Will have to see the game get whittled down a little before I start to majorly rethink some people I’ve sorted in my head.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:36 amValid concern, and I appreciate you fighting for it. Whether the mafia lie in the "generic" POE group we've been rehashing for days or more on the fringe (a la Kitsu), I think the game is okay. The worrisome scenarios come if someone being "confirmed" is a mafioso, or someone just outside the suspect group like sabie. Do you have any such concerns?ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:29 amI’m telling you it’s a good idea to keep other suspects in mind.
This is the only time Alison has directly addressed Colin in the last 36 hours or so. I'm not seeing much effort from her to sort this slot beyond "chop it".Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:33 pmhave you not ever looked at kitsu's posts and go "this is obvious town"?ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:56 amVery blendy in general. I don’t have a meta read to rely on so I have to judge hunting/contributions/tone and nothing there inspires me to confidence. I gave KitsuShel a clear earlier in the game because of the notion that claiming miller without knowing what it’s called would be the kind of mistake a townie would make, but I think now that that is a bad reason to clear somebody. I struggle to find a reason to townread her.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:50 am @ColinIsCool could you please describe the progression of your thoughts about KitsuShel since you first arrived?