The Syndicate

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:27 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:26 pm

Millium wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:19 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:12 pm Uhhh clearly the only reasonable elim today is either Belzy or Mac.

no, Mac isn't part of that picture, if Mac kills a town with this he just looks bad, could probably walk out of it
but if he is a wolf and alison is town, there is literally no need to derail the Alison train with something like that

+ belzy is the key to everything, if they are town, Mac is confirmed
if they are a wolf, Mac is still cleared honestly, cause why the hell do this

I mean, I don't disagree with you, but anytime anyone claims something as damning as Mac did, you resolve between the claimer and the claimee. That's all I'm saying.

What if I believe Belzy was telling the truth and merely forgot to mention it was a oneshot until they realised Mac was assuming it wasn't?

I don't see how that's not a world that exists with this claim. I don't see why we are required to resolve there.

Then that will be cleared up and the situation changes.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:27 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:26 pm

Millium wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:19 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:12 pm Uhhh clearly the only reasonable elim today is either Belzy or Mac.

no, Mac isn't part of that picture, if Mac kills a town with this he just looks bad, could probably walk out of it
but if he is a wolf and alison is town, there is literally no need to derail the Alison train with something like that

+ belzy is the key to everything, if they are town, Mac is confirmed
if they are a wolf, Mac is still cleared honestly, cause why the hell do this

I mean, I don't disagree with you, but anytime anyone claims something as damning as Mac did, you resolve between the claimer and the claimee. That's all I'm saying.

What if I believe Belzy was telling the truth and merely forgot to mention it was a oneshot until they realised Mac was assuming it wasn't?

I don't see how that's not a world that exists with this claim. I don't see why we are required to resolve there.

it would depend on the wording I guess in their chat, and how Betzy responds to all this in this thread
I find it hard to believe u forget to mention that
but people do mess with their wordings of their roles when they talk about them

I dont think we need to resolve there, but if that ends up being the case, its always Betzy over Mac

wait, why is belzy mafia here?

The longer this goes on the less likely that the town that are not following closely will really understand what's happening but to summarise for those who are only loosely paying attention or engaged in your own heated dialogue.

Alison made a legacy post. In it Alison claimed that Santy was pursuing her all game with bad faith arguments.

Unequivocal facts can show that Santy had townread Alison the entirety of day 1 and then significantly into day 2. So Alison was incorrect.

When I pointed that out, Alison pursued a line of defense that was a series of misrepresentations, trying to modify the crux of my issue with Alison to improve Alison's ability to reason. For example by saying I was townreading Santygrass for trying to kill town etc and by trying to imply that the idea of townreading a town who is egregiously wrong is weird for me (or anyone). I refuted this by pointing out that Alison is not pursuing Dyachei with any vigour despite Dyachei being the primary exponent of the Arogame wagon on day 1. I also pointed out that between Dya and Santy if either of them were to be scumread for pushing town it would make more sense for Dya to be as Dya has better reads accuracy than Santy and Santy has a history of hard pushing onto town. This was stepped around.

Alison then made a comment that only the wolves and honorary wolves didn't think Santy's case was illogical and bad. When asked to name people Alison named Nanook, Dya and Lily.

Neither Nanook or Dya were able to verify that they ever said this, though both did attempt to defend Alison.

I believe the above makes Alison near confirmed mafia.

I do not think it reflects well on Nanook and Dya either, but I doubt Alison buries them both this way in self defense. I think Dyachei is much more likely to be mafia than Nanook.

Consider the above my final comment on the previous events.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:33 pm The longer this goes on the less likely that the town that are not following closely will really understand what's happening but to summarise for those who are only loosely paying attention or engaged in your own heated dialogue.

Alison made a legacy post. In it Alison claimed that Santy was pursuing her all game with bad faith arguments.

Unequivocal facts can show that Santy had townread Alison the entirety of day 1 and then significantly into day 2. So Alison was incorrect.

When I pointed that out, Alison pursued a line of defense that was a series of misrepresentations, trying to modify the crux of my issue with Alison to improve Alison's ability to reason. For example by saying I was townreading Santygrass for trying to kill town etc and by trying to imply that the idea of townreading a town who is egregiously wrong is weird for me (or anyone). I refuted this by pointing out that Alison is not pursuing Dyachei with any vigour despite Dyachei being the primary exponent of the Arogame wagon on day 1. I also pointed out that between Dya and Santy if either of them were to be scumread for pushing town it would make more sense for Dya to be as Dya has better reads accuracy than Santy and Santy has a history of hard pushing onto town. This was stepped around.

Alison then made a comment that only the wolves and honorary wolves didn't think Santy's case was illogical and bad. When asked to name people Alison named Nanook, Dya and Lily.

Neither Nanook or Dya were able to verify that they ever said this, though both did attempt to defend Alison.

I believe the above makes Alison near confirmed mafia.

I do not think it reflects well on Nanook and Dya either, but I doubt Alison buries them both this way in self defense. I think Dyachei is much more likely to be mafia than Nanook.

Consider the above my final comment on the previous events.

you expecting me to have super accurate reads on people I havent played many long games with is nice, but not reality

On the subject of Belzy, it is plausible that Belzy is town and just fumbled their claim. The way the claim was handled in the chat wasn't entirely outing, it was just bad.

The main reason I them was because Belzy is just wolfy in the thread, in the chat, fumbled the claim and their actual stated claim is nothing more than an expired green check on a slot that probably dies tonight anyway and a hood they weren't even contributing to.

@dyachei that's fair. I am not actually saying that you should tbh. I am merely pointing out that if there is an argument between who is more likely to be mafia who brutally killed town between:

Dyachei who buried Arogame and in the process saved Porscha who appears to be outed wolf
or
Santygrass who buried Alison who has not even flipped yet and seems to be an outed wolf

I think you profile as more likely.

And yet Alison is making the argument that Santy is more guilty for "ruthlessly killing townies" than you are.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:37 pm @dyachei that's fair. I am not actually saying that you should tbh. I am merely pointing out that if there is an argument between who is more likely to be mafia who brutally killed town between:

Dyachei who buried Arogame and in the process saved Porscha who appears to be outed wolf
or
Santygrass who buried Alison who has not even flipped yet and seems to be an outed wolf

I think you profile as more likely.

And yet Alison is making the argument that Santy is more guilty for "ruthlessly killing townies" than you are.

He is, dya never pushed aro as hard as Santy pushed me, dya's reasons were much less BS. I would say I killed aro more than dya did, and if you wanna scumread me off that I'm fine with it.

my push on aro convinced no one to move their vote. it wasnt until aro started posting badly towards the end of day that people started to move. I had been there much earlier. I think it's disingenuous to say that I killed aro. There were multiple people pushing aro and I was probably listened to the least

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:27 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:26 pm

Millium wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:19 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:12 pm Uhhh clearly the only reasonable elim today is either Belzy or Mac.

no, Mac isn't part of that picture, if Mac kills a town with this he just looks bad, could probably walk out of it
but if he is a wolf and alison is town, there is literally no need to derail the Alison train with something like that

+ belzy is the key to everything, if they are town, Mac is confirmed
if they are a wolf, Mac is still cleared honestly, cause why the hell do this

I mean, I don't disagree with you, but anytime anyone claims something as damning as Mac did, you resolve between the claimer and the claimee. That's all I'm saying.

What if I believe Belzy was telling the truth and merely forgot to mention it was a oneshot until they realised Mac was assuming it wasn't?

I don't see how that's not a world that exists with this claim. I don't see why we are required to resolve there.

It's possible, but the thing is that there was like 12 hours between me and Belzy discussing plans around Belzy hard claiming today so town would know who they put the check on tonight, and then me asking them to full claim and getting the claim I got.

And Belzy has also been just a potato in the chat and really not been any better in the thread either.

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:41 pm my push on aro convinced no one to move their vote. it wasnt until aro started posting badly towards the end of day that people started to move. I had been there much earlier. I think it's disingenuous to say that I killed aro. There were multiple people pushing aro and I was probably listened to the least

I think it's disingenuous to say that Santy killed Alison too tbh.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:42 pm

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:41 pm my push on aro convinced no one to move their vote. it wasnt until aro started posting badly towards the end of day that people started to move. I had been there much earlier. I think it's disingenuous to say that I killed aro. There were multiple people pushing aro and I was probably listened to the least

I think it's disingenuous to say that Santy killed Alison too tbh.

probably true. you're pushing her more than he is

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:38 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:37 pm @dyachei that's fair. I am not actually saying that you should tbh. I am merely pointing out that if there is an argument between who is more likely to be mafia who brutally killed town between:

Dyachei who buried Arogame and in the process saved Porscha who appears to be outed wolf
or
Santygrass who buried Alison who has not even flipped yet and seems to be an outed wolf

I think you profile as more likely.

And yet Alison is making the argument that Santy is more guilty for "ruthlessly killing townies" than you are.

He is, dya never pushed aro as hard as Santy pushed me, dya's reasons were much less BS. I would say I killed aro more than dya did, and if you wanna scumread me off that I'm fine with it.

Santy only started casing you after being persuaded to reevaluate by others. You are giving dyachei benefit of the doubt you aren't applying to Santy.

You still have yet to actually argue against any of the specific points that he made. You are just playing the whole series of posts off like they're moronic and the whole world should agree when realistically everyone in the game either actually agrees with Santy or never actually read his posts.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:43 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:38 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:37 pm @dyachei that's fair. I am not actually saying that you should tbh. I am merely pointing out that if there is an argument between who is more likely to be mafia who brutally killed town between:

Dyachei who buried Arogame and in the process saved Porscha who appears to be outed wolf
or
Santygrass who buried Alison who has not even flipped yet and seems to be an outed wolf

I think you profile as more likely.

And yet Alison is making the argument that Santy is more guilty for "ruthlessly killing townies" than you are.

He is, dya never pushed aro as hard as Santy pushed me, dya's reasons were much less BS. I would say I killed aro more than dya did, and if you wanna scumread me off that I'm fine with it.

Santy only started casing you after being persuaded to reevaluate by others. You are giving dyachei benefit of the doubt you aren't applying to Santy.

You still have yet to actually argue against any of the specific points that he made. You are just playing the whole series of posts off like they're moronic and the whole world should agree when realistically everyone in the game either actually agrees with Santy or never actually read his posts.

so why does that make us partners instead of alison trying to pocket me?

Alisons's legacy summarised - Since Alison is off to watch a movie we can have a chat about this without running the risk of being accused of misunderstanding her meta or whatever lol.

Santygrass is mafia because "he is the architect of most of the bad arguments and has been attacking me in bad faith for the entire game". Alison has too much respect for Santy to let him get away with it.

EnderWiggin has done absolutely nothing that is townie but Aro shielded him so I guess he can live for a while more. But he has a pretty bad track record reads wise so I'd say he's on thin ice and should be made to do townie things.

Chamomile is playing exactly as I would expect a 3P to play. Because they are playing weird without self pres instinct which isn't scummy so must be 3p.

I'll sheep Illario on Neon and say she is mafia especially since she has weird mech question marks surrounding her.

Nanook has been playing in a very scum sided way. But it's justified and so pick off obvious mafia (Neon, Santy etc.) before you resolve this.

Rest of solve

Tilg/Porscha top sus - Doesn't elaborate just says reasons already explained

Mac/Lily top town - playing obscenely close to our town meta. I'm shielding Belzy so Belzy must be town.

Illario is maybe snowing but is probably just town because his reads and solves are great. dyachei has been townie because agreeable but "chance they are wolf skating by but the correct way to deal with this possibility is simply to catch their teammates" - Same way they asked us to handle Nanook.

Offers no read on Millium or Rondo cuz Alison thinks they are policy or whatever.

Seanzie is obscenely town.

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:53 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:43 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:38 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:37 pm @dyachei that's fair. I am not actually saying that you should tbh. I am merely pointing out that if there is an argument between who is more likely to be mafia who brutally killed town between:

Dyachei who buried Arogame and in the process saved Porscha who appears to be outed wolf
or
Santygrass who buried Alison who has not even flipped yet and seems to be an outed wolf

I think you profile as more likely.

And yet Alison is making the argument that Santy is more guilty for "ruthlessly killing townies" than you are.

He is, dya never pushed aro as hard as Santy pushed me, dya's reasons were much less BS. I would say I killed aro more than dya did, and if you wanna scumread me off that I'm fine with it.

Santy only started casing you after being persuaded to reevaluate by others. You are giving dyachei benefit of the doubt you aren't applying to Santy.

You still have yet to actually argue against any of the specific points that he made. You are just playing the whole series of posts off like they're moronic and the whole world should agree when realistically everyone in the game either actually agrees with Santy or never actually read his posts.

so why does that make us partners instead of alison trying to pocket me?

Is it a requirement for me to consider every possible angle and state every possible wrinkle to pass your scumhunting standards?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:55 pm Alisons's legacy summarised - Since Alison is off to watch a movie we can have a chat about this without running the risk of being accused of misunderstanding her meta or whatever lol.

Santygrass is mafia because "he is the architect of most of the bad arguments and has been attacking me in bad faith for the entire game". Alison has too much respect for Santy to let him get away with it.

EnderWiggin has done absolutely nothing that is townie but Aro shielded him so I guess he can live for a while more. But he has a pretty bad track record reads wise so I'd say he's on thin ice and should be made to do townie things.

Chamomile is playing exactly as I would expect a 3P to play. Because they are playing weird without self pres instinct which isn't scummy so must be 3p.

I'll sheep Illario on Neon and say she is mafia especially since she has weird mech question marks surrounding her.

Nanook has been playing in a very scum sided way. But it's justified and so pick off obvious mafia (Neon, Santy etc.) before you resolve this.

Rest of solve

Tilg/Porscha top sus - Doesn't elaborate just says reasons already explained

Mac/Lily top town - playing obscenely close to our town meta. I'm shielding Belzy so Belzy must be town.

Illario is maybe snowing but is probably just town because his reads and solves are great. dyachei has been townie because agreeable but "chance they are wolf skating by but the correct way to deal with this possibility is simply to catch their teammates" - Same way they asked us to handle Nanook.

Offers no read on Millium or Rondo cuz Alison thinks they are policy or whatever.

Seanzie is obscenely town.

she updated her reads from this though

Holy shit, im really behind but I’m guessing by dizzys post I missed out on a lot

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:55 pm Alisons's legacy summarised - Since Alison is off to watch a movie we can have a chat about this without running the risk of being accused of misunderstanding her meta or whatever lol.

Santygrass is mafia because "he is the architect of most of the bad arguments and has been attacking me in bad faith for the entire game". Alison has too much respect for Santy to let him get away with it.

EnderWiggin has done absolutely nothing that is townie but Aro shielded him so I guess he can live for a while more. But he has a pretty bad track record reads wise so I'd say he's on thin ice and should be made to do townie things.

Chamomile is playing exactly as I would expect a 3P to play. Because they are playing weird without self pres instinct which isn't scummy so must be 3p.

I'll sheep Illario on Neon and say she is mafia especially since she has weird mech question marks surrounding her.

Nanook has been playing in a very scum sided way. But it's justified and so pick off obvious mafia (Neon, Santy etc.) before you resolve this.

Rest of solve

Tilg/Porscha top sus - Doesn't elaborate just says reasons already explained

Mac/Lily top town - playing obscenely close to our town meta. I'm shielding Belzy so Belzy must be town.

Illario is maybe snowing but is probably just town because his reads and solves are great. dyachei has been townie because agreeable but "chance they are wolf skating by but the correct way to deal with this possibility is simply to catch their teammates" - Same way they asked us to handle Nanook.

Offers no read on Millium or Rondo cuz Alison thinks they are policy or whatever.

Seanzie is obscenely town.

I think alison being wary of santy is valid if she’s a villa. My biggest paranoia that I had the hours I was away from the game is that santy is mafia who has just been going hard to pocket me. His strong shift on alison came right around the time I started to get wary of alison being scum. Before that he trd her when I trd her. Similarly, aro was someone I was sketchy of at times on d1, who santy went on to push. It could just be co-incidence, but I will make a mental note to relook at santy in worlds
Where alison flips villa

Did alison explain why she didn’t push wisp today? I feel like after his play on d1 alison would normally push him for it today?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:55 pm Alisons's legacy summarised - Since Alison is off to watch a movie we can have a chat about this without running the risk of being accused of misunderstanding her meta or whatever lol.

Santygrass is mafia because "he is the architect of most of the bad arguments and has been attacking me in bad faith for the entire game". Alison has too much respect for Santy to let him get away with it.

EnderWiggin has done absolutely nothing that is townie but Aro shielded him so I guess he can live for a while more. But he has a pretty bad track record reads wise so I'd say he's on thin ice and should be made to do townie things.

Chamomile is playing exactly as I would expect a 3P to play. Because they are playing weird without self pres instinct which isn't scummy so must be 3p.

I'll sheep Illario on Neon and say she is mafia especially since she has weird mech question marks surrounding her.

Nanook has been playing in a very scum sided way. But it's justified and so pick off obvious mafia (Neon, Santy etc.) before you resolve this.

Rest of solve

Tilg/Porscha top sus - Doesn't elaborate just says reasons already explained

Mac/Lily top town - playing obscenely close to our town meta. I'm shielding Belzy so Belzy must be town.

Illario is maybe snowing but is probably just town because his reads and solves are great. dyachei has been townie because agreeable but "chance they are wolf skating by but the correct way to deal with this possibility is simply to catch their teammates" - Same way they asked us to handle Nanook.

Offers no read on Millium or Rondo cuz Alison thinks they are policy or whatever.

Seanzie is obscenely town.

My response to each read.

Santy - We know how I feel. Alison is objectively incorrect about her reasoning. Santy townread her most of the game and his arguments were fine. I don't think anyone disagrees but if you do then feel free to state that.

Ender - Ender has been actually the towniest slot in the game on reads and play imo so to say he's done nothing townie baffles me on a personal reads level. I remember Ender trying to shield himself with Arogame's legacy and failing before so it's a little bit sus that Alison is echoing that sentiment. This is possible antispew.

Cham - Cham pointed out how Alison's read makes sense as a "scum who thinks cham is scummy so must be 3p" I can see the logic in that. I think that it's perhaps not a bad thought though regardless of Alison's alignment.

Neon - Neon has been pretty townie imo. I am not even sure Ilario still scumreads Neon either? So this is another read that I think may be predicated on false information. @ilario can you clarify please?

Nanook - This is probably the most fair minded looking read but it's pretty weird from Alison cuz the way Nanook has treated Alison I would expect Alison to want to policy chop him. It's very strangely kid gloves for Alison.

Tilg/Porscha sus - I cannot argue.

Belzy - Given Belzy is sus and Alison shielded them with me, this is not gonna look good for Belzy if Alison is mafia.

Mac/Lily top town - I cannot argue much although I have some reservations on Lily that I don't really care to go into.

Illario/Dya reads - These feel weird. It feels like they are blowing smoke up Ilario's ass to me. The dya read feels like ... wifom. I don't think I should read into how Alison is handling Dya if they are mafia. It feels like intentional wifom.

No reads on Milly and Rondo - I think Alison said they townread Millium, and not giving Rondo the benefit of a town shield by proxy to Mac but giving it to Belzy is... a little strange. I think both of these are town slots anyway.

Seanzie being obscenely town. Just strange. He's like straight not been lol. It's really weird to me that people just let that read slide especialy dya who lock scumreads Seanzie.

What we think?

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:01 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:55 pm Alisons's legacy summarised - Since Alison is off to watch a movie we can have a chat about this without running the risk of being accused of misunderstanding her meta or whatever lol.

Santygrass is mafia because "he is the architect of most of the bad arguments and has been attacking me in bad faith for the entire game". Alison has too much respect for Santy to let him get away with it.

EnderWiggin has done absolutely nothing that is townie but Aro shielded him so I guess he can live for a while more. But he has a pretty bad track record reads wise so I'd say he's on thin ice and should be made to do townie things.

Chamomile is playing exactly as I would expect a 3P to play. Because they are playing weird without self pres instinct which isn't scummy so must be 3p.

I'll sheep Illario on Neon and say she is mafia especially since she has weird mech question marks surrounding her.

Nanook has been playing in a very scum sided way. But it's justified and so pick off obvious mafia (Neon, Santy etc.) before you resolve this.

Rest of solve

Tilg/Porscha top sus - Doesn't elaborate just says reasons already explained

Mac/Lily top town - playing obscenely close to our town meta. I'm shielding Belzy so Belzy must be town.

Illario is maybe snowing but is probably just town because his reads and solves are great. dyachei has been townie because agreeable but "chance they are wolf skating by but the correct way to deal with this possibility is simply to catch their teammates" - Same way they asked us to handle Nanook.

Offers no read on Millium or Rondo cuz Alison thinks they are policy or whatever.

Seanzie is obscenely town.

I think alison being wary of santy is valid if she’s a villa. My biggest paranoia that I had the hours I was away from the game is that santy is mafia who has just been going hard to pocket me. His strong shift on alison came right around the time I started to get wary of alison being scum. Before that he trd her when I trd her. Similarly, aro was someone I was sketchy of at times on d1, who santy went on to push. It could just be co-incidence, but I will make a mental note to relook at santy in worlds
Where alison flips villa

mostly just been trying to contemplate what wolf worlds would look like if wolves have mostly just been smoke up my ass all game

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:03 pm Did alison explain why she didn’t push wisp today? I feel like after his play on d1 alison would normally push him for it today?

from my understanding it had to do with Aro's reads
also I'm back, got pulled away for a bit

and just as i say that mac highlights someone who could have been doing that lol

Millium wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:04 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:03 pm Did alison explain why she didn’t push wisp today? I feel like after his play on d1 alison would normally push him for it today?

from my understanding it had to do with Aro's reads
also I'm back, got pulled away for a bit

whats ur take on how shes handled u today and her slot in general?

I think Nanook can easily be a wolf here, or 3p
still think his reasoning for keeping his vote on Alison was unreasonable, if there even was a reason
Im very accustomed to the Nanook vibing read, but this feels somewhat over the top

that's something I would look closer to if Alison is town

Ilario, your current read on Neon as per when Alison made this legacy post please?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:08 pm Ilario, your current read on Neon as per when Alison made this legacy post please?

last i left i had neon as back to being really towny

Okay so there's another fallacy in Alison's legacy post. Scumreading Neon because you did.

Alison clearly didn't have an accurate view of the gamestate when making the post.

In and of itself not entirely indictable but like ... why lash out and OMGUS when called out on it? Why promote so much confidence in reads that are so obviously predicated on a bad understanding of the game? Why not reevaluate instead?

Just a wolf.

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:27 am

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:24 am

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:18 am

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 7:12 am

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 6:42 am

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 6:39 am

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:14 am

Polarized means they are easy to find as scum basically

I think.

Porscha! Is this the game where I town read you and you are a wolf finally or the game where I town read you and you die D1 anyways and are town?

can u go over what u found towny with porcha on d1 and why ur read there has changed today?

i will admit if porcha is wolf this post doesnt feel w/w at first glance

Yeah I can expand but I have to go back to work right meow my break is in 20 mins I'll write up a full explanation than

@ilario

So I TRd Porscha early because Porscha in my experience is commonly wolfy day 1 and plays a lot like me in that early they post a lot of fluffy stuff and just kind of vibe in thread and talk about non game things.

This is my experience and why me and Porscha have had various conversations late at night in thread when nobody else is posting about stupid things like League. Porscha has become my friend thru us just vibing alone late night in thread in caps mafia games.

I've also seen Porscha die for being "scummy" early even when I've tried to defend them like in FoL or when I've tried to pocket them and exclaim their town. So they often die and flip town even when I express a different opinion.

However upon further review...Porscha is kind of doing what I expect right. Fluffy trying to vibe with me but it's...shallower than normal. Like the Overwatch thing with Lily and Me where Porscha was like "is like I don't exist over here" or something like that. That's what I'd expect and we vibed off it a little like I'd expect I've been struggling to express what felt off about Porscha and I think it's like I've given so much stuff I'd expect Porscha to vibe off of and they've only kinda done it.

Than they are being very defensive in their limited time in thread and I've seen that from town Porscha presumably from being tired of being miskilled so often day 1. But here even that defensiveness and the aggro off it just felt forced and than they disappeared again.

So combine that and the lack of presence and the lack of vibe and...I think I'm starting to see a wolf Porscha world.

I've been told Porscha is Polarized I've never played with wolf Porscha but I see someone trying to mimic their town game and getting halfway there... if that makes any sense.

Good enough that on first glance I was like this is town but on further scrutiny it didn't hold up.

kudos to u if ur a wolf

??

im saying this to indicate that i think ur posting really well. i already think ur recent wolf performances probably leave u as a very solid wolf but if ur a wolf this game then ill openly admit ur probs one of the strongest wolves ive come across. ill probs just occams razor u as town though,

this is the last i spoke about neon

if theyre a wolf this game theyre the alexa/lumi archetype of wolf where they focus on making really individually towny sounding posts but occams razor makes me just wanna call it a v

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:12 pm Okay so there's another fallacy in Alison's legacy post. Scumreading Neon because you did.

Alison clearly didn't have an accurate view of the gamestate when making the post.

In and of itself not entirely indictable but like ... why lash out and OMGUS when called out on it? Why promote so much confidence in reads that are so obviously predicated on a bad understanding of the game? Why not reevaluate instead?

Just a wolf.

tbf i was pushing neon sod, im not saying ur argument isnt correct. it just depends on which parts of my posting alison saw ig

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:05 pm

Millium wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:04 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:03 pm Did alison explain why she didn’t push wisp today? I feel like after his play on d1 alison would normally push him for it today?

from my understanding it had to do with Aro's reads
also I'm back, got pulled away for a bit

whats ur take on how shes handled u today and her slot in general?

im always gunna conf-bias myself into hating Alison because of the way she perceives me and certain others
Her handling of Nanook is the worst about that slot, cause it just doesn't add up with their claim at all
like they are picking and choosing what they consider to be outting at any given moment

as for moving me to a townlean or w/e it is they said because of Aro's legacy, I don't know how to feel about
I talk about my experiences with Alison in how I dont think they should necessarily be bad, but they told me to stop assuming things about their meta
so I'm dropping it

its also hard to draw the line between is Alison being maliciously ignorant, or are they just getting caught up in all the pressure
do they believe Santy is misrepresenting them, could be?

going through Santy's iso of them, some of the conclusions did bother me
specifically their original vote on Alison after linking them to Porsche
which was before a lot of the more tangible evidence
but im more if u are pre-flipping, why wouldn't u vote the person u pre-flipped, over the person u are connecting them too
that I dont like

Millium wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:07 pm I think Nanook can easily be a wolf here, or 3p
still think his reasoning for keeping his vote on Alison was unreasonable, if there even was a reason
Im very accustomed to the Nanook vibing read, but this feels somewhat over the top

that's something I would look closer to if Alison is town

which part feels over the top?

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:13 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:12 pm Okay so there's another fallacy in Alison's legacy post. Scumreading Neon because you did.

Alison clearly didn't have an accurate view of the gamestate when making the post.

In and of itself not entirely indictable but like ... why lash out and OMGUS when called out on it? Why promote so much confidence in reads that are so obviously predicated on a bad understanding of the game? Why not reevaluate instead?

Just a wolf.

tbf i was pushing neon sod, im not saying ur argument isnt correct. it just depends on which parts of my posting alison saw ig

Read what I just said man.

oh soz my bad mac i misinterpretedd

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:14 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:13 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:12 pm Okay so there's another fallacy in Alison's legacy post. Scumreading Neon because you did.

Alison clearly didn't have an accurate view of the gamestate when making the post.

In and of itself not entirely indictable but like ... why lash out and OMGUS when called out on it? Why promote so much confidence in reads that are so obviously predicated on a bad understanding of the game? Why not reevaluate instead?

Just a wolf.

tbf i was pushing neon sod, im not saying ur argument isnt correct. it just depends on which parts of my posting alison saw ig

Read what I just said man.

i have noticed alison skipping content this game, is it normal for her to ignore chunks of the thread in larger more spammy games?

no but it's abnormal for Alison to make blatantly fallacious arguments and purse them vigorously as though they are facts and when called out on them being fallacious and having it shown to them to double down and omgus instead of see that they were clearly wrong and immediately reevalaute.

it's almost like Alison is trying to spew Santy town.

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:14 pm

Millium wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:07 pm I think Nanook can easily be a wolf here, or 3p
still think his reasoning for keeping his vote on Alison was unreasonable, if there even was a reason
Im very accustomed to the Nanook vibing read, but this feels somewhat over the top

that's something I would look closer to if Alison is town

which part feels over the top?

to refrain from assuming meta, since apparently im not good enough to do that
I think there responses just arent vibey enough, I think they are being unnecessarily, whats the word, obtuse?

refuge in audacity

intentionally misrepresenting facts

making things up

inconsistent

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:19 pm no but it's abnormal for Alison to make blatantly fallacious arguments and purse them vigorously as though they are facts and when called out on them being fallacious and having it shown to them to double down and omgus instead of see that they were clearly wrong and immediately reevalaute.

it's almost like Alison is trying to spew Santy town.

which arguement are specifically referring to, here?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:19 pm no but it's abnormal for Alison to make blatantly fallacious arguments and purse them vigorously as though they are facts and when called out on them being fallacious and having it shown to them to double down and omgus instead of see that they were clearly wrong and immediately reevalaute.

it's almost like Alison is trying to spew Santy town.

so regardless of alisons flip i need to re-evaluate santy it seems..

if i were to pre-flip alison wolf would you do you think she could be trying to spew seanzie town as well? if i imagine a w!alison t!seanzie world im not really sure if hes someone she would try to pocket by signal boosting his towniness? seanzie seems like someone whose kinda immune to that kinda stuff and plays by his own accord is the vvibe i get

Wisp, Alison, and Nanook probably paired

!

Choppers *doctoring* in one piece

Chamomile wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:23 pm Wisp, Alison, and Nanook probably paired

!

Choppers *doctoring* in one piece

Nook paired with alison?? Woah that’s interesting, howd you get to that??

In sevens world the play would imply that alison came up with the claim, knew it wouldn’t self resolve so asked nook you park on her. Her and wisp agreed that wisp would selfvote after Alison’s push to make them look unpaired, and then alison would not push him today because of aros legacy. Is that sort of how you are envisioning what happened in that world? @Chamomile

Millium wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:22 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:19 pm no but it's abnormal for Alison to make blatantly fallacious arguments and purse them vigorously as though they are facts and when called out on them being fallacious and having it shown to them to double down and omgus instead of see that they were clearly wrong and immediately reevalaute.

it's almost like Alison is trying to spew Santy town.

which arguement are specifically referring to, here?

Specifically her reasons for scumreading Neon and Santygrass are based on objective falsehoods (Santy was not pushing her all game with bad faith, he shielded her most of the game and the case was fine - Ilario townread Neon when she made the post).

Before you annoy me by saying "yeah but she might just not have known" consider that I HAVE SAID THAT MULTIPLE TIMES and the reason it's a problem isn't the read itself but the fact that when it was shown to her that she was misrepping the situation she doubled down and omgussed me instead of reevalating (and I was her top town!).

I’m ngl if lily comes in tomorrow with a green on porcha I might just vote out lily if I’m still alive… because if porcha is v then what in the world is this game rn

ilario are you gonna try to catch up?

i feel like im going crazy and you're my top town

Chamomile wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:23 pm Wisp, Alison, and Nanook probably paired

!

Choppers *doctoring* in one piece

Yes I am paired with the person I have been at odds with all game and the person who has lock voted me all game for no reason.

SPF was right about the connection between Nanook wisp and Alison but she had it backwards. Nook wasn’t comfy switching his vote between them because they are town but because they are his scum mates. The partner equity between nook and Wisp is particularly strong.

!

In one piece solo is just like a samurai

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 9:30 pm I’m ngl if lily comes in tomorrow with a green on porcha I might just vote out lily if I’m still alive… because if porcha is v then what in the world is this game rn

lily wanted us to vote porscha if she didnt show up in 1.5 hrs....about that long ago i think?