The Syndicate

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:22 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:15 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:10 pm I think I need to give Neon a pass for my bad memory and let other people suss/find her

There was a host post saying Wilgy replaced her but I saw no posts or mentions of him. It was confusing, there wasn’t even a list of who was what role in the thread that I could find.

See I know Neon / Aero were the F5 wolves so you saying she subbed makes no sense to me

I was not wolf in this game. It was aro/Anne/SPF

I'm like 90% sure

Dennis wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:53 pm Town

Me
Golden
SVS
Falcon
Splints

Everyone below is on the chopping block until further notice

Almost certainly town

Rondo
Seanzie



Roxy
Neon

Congrats this is an awful rainbow.

Well. Maybe not. I'm wrong a lot. But. I hate it.

If Roxy flips wolf I'm just confused by what this wolf team ever even did ...

And more so I'm confused by their actions. Lack of thread control. Basically like...wtf.

But Roxys big first post this phase is pinging the fuck out of me so...

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:27 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:15 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:10 pm I think I need to give Neon a pass for my bad memory and let other people suss/find her

There was a host post saying Wilgy replaced her but I saw no posts or mentions of him. It was confusing, there wasn’t even a list of who was what role in the thread that I could find.

KotH

I was town
I subbed out cause I was extremely depressed irl

@RondoDimBuckle

I'm confused.

yeah I think I fucked up. I think that makes you town but also I dont know what that means for my reads

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:38 am But Roxys big first post this phase is pinging the fuck out of me so...

Same right? Throwing some good sus on me that post is. Ill be honest I didnt read the rest

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:37 am If Roxy flips wolf I'm just confused by what this wolf team ever even did ...

And more so I'm confused by their actions. Lack of thread control. Basically like...wtf.

Exerting thread control is a characteristic of individual players. Mata and Roxy are, by their nature, lower posters who don’t seek to exert thread control. This can be an effective tactic if the town is eating itself.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:43 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:27 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:15 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:10 pm I think I need to give Neon a pass for my bad memory and let other people suss/find her

There was a host post saying Wilgy replaced her but I saw no posts or mentions of him. It was confusing, there wasn’t even a list of who was what role in the thread that I could find.

KotH

I was town
I subbed out cause I was extremely depressed irl

@RondoDimBuckle

I'm confused.

yeah I think I fucked up. I think that makes you town but also I dont know what that means for my reads

Perhaps it just means Roxy is wolf.

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:46 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:43 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:27 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:15 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:10 pm I think I need to give Neon a pass for my bad memory and let other people suss/find her

There was a host post saying Wilgy replaced her but I saw no posts or mentions of him. It was confusing, there wasn’t even a list of who was what role in the thread that I could find.

KotH

I was town
I subbed out cause I was extremely depressed irl

@RondoDimBuckle

I'm confused.

yeah I think I fucked up. I think that makes you town but also I dont know what that means for my reads

Perhaps it just means Roxy is wolf.

Probably, I was just super pinged by Neons defense of Lucy into the wolf flip. I am willing to release my asshole and let things happen. If its not Roxy then Sean can have me and then you will all have to just solve the game without me

You know what I am just going to say Neon is town till F3 then do a proper re-eval on her. No wolf wants to look that shitty going into a lucy flip

Let me separate this Roxy post into two halves:

1) confbias reasons to suspect Roxy:

Day 1. “I’m catching up”. “Whoops didn’t catch up, I’ll self vote”.

Didn’t love this progression at the time, don’t love it now.

Day 6 - Roxy dislikes a meta in which lucy wolfclaims and spews Dennis and rondo as town. Hey, I’d be pissed at that if I was Roxy and Lucy’s teammate too.

Somewhere in the middle - lucy says ‘fucking Roxy’ and literally everyone who knows roxy is expecting a sharp response that didn’t really come.

2) reasons to doubt the confbias

Fingersplints is hard-reading roxy as tow
Roxy’s activity is essentially in line with her civ game.
Neon’s hard-read, as a stranger to roxy

Which is more likely? Wolf on wagon or off?

Finger and Roxy havent voted in above

@fingersplints @Roxy pls vote for waganomics ty

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:57 am Finger and Roxy havent voted in above

To be fair the day starts for splints at like 2am

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:59 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:57 am Finger and Roxy havent voted in above

To be fair the day starts for splints at like 2am

no excuses, game has been going for 24 hours now I should vote her just for not having a vote and turbo her till f3

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:56 am d62.PNG

Which is more likely? Wolf on wagon or off?

In a world where Roxy is town… on.

In a world where roxy is wolf… id guess the wolf is someone who hasn’t voted yet.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:00 am

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:59 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:57 am Finger and Roxy havent voted in above

To be fair the day starts for splints at like 2am

no excuses, game has been going for 24 hours now I should vote her just for not having a vote and turbo her till f3

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

this is a joke

Oh yeah now it’s me that can’t keep days straight

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:01 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:56 am d62.PNG

Which is more likely? Wolf on wagon or off?

In a world where Roxy is town… on.

In a world where roxy is wolf… id guess the wolf is someone who hasn’t voted yet.

This.... this is very helpful

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:43 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:27 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:15 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:10 pm I think I need to give Neon a pass for my bad memory and let other people suss/find her

There was a host post saying Wilgy replaced her but I saw no posts or mentions of him. It was confusing, there wasn’t even a list of who was what role in the thread that I could find.

KotH

I was town
I subbed out cause I was extremely depressed irl

@RondoDimBuckle

I'm confused.

yeah I think I fucked up. I think that makes you town but also I dont know what that means for my reads

All good I wish I had connected the dots that your call back was to a town game but I didn't realize it til catch up.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:42 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:43 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:27 am

S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:15 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:10 pm I think I need to give Neon a pass for my bad memory and let other people suss/find her

There was a host post saying Wilgy replaced her but I saw no posts or mentions of him. It was confusing, there wasn’t even a list of who was what role in the thread that I could find.

KotH

I was town
I subbed out cause I was extremely depressed irl

@RondoDimBuckle

I'm confused.

yeah I think I fucked up. I think that makes you town but also I dont know what that means for my reads

All good I wish I had connected the dots that your call back was to a town game but I didn't realize it til catch up.

I think we can both agree its something SPF would do

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:45 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:37 am If Roxy flips wolf I'm just confused by what this wolf team ever even did ...

And more so I'm confused by their actions. Lack of thread control. Basically like...wtf.

Exerting thread control is a characteristic of individual players. Mata and Roxy are, by their nature, lower posters who don’t seek to exert thread control. This can be an effective tactic if the town is eating itself.

It's an absolute disaster. With prs and God doc Scotty they should have adjusted

Further 1 of them was inactive and no voted at least one time

Two of them self voted at different points I believe both on day 1 and one stayed on themself thus losing their vote day 2. This is actually a huge reason why I've town read Roxy that play makes 0 sense as mafia if i was on thee team I'd be screaming in scum chat to just log in for one second stealth vote and leave.

Like... there's just so much huh and very little where I can go oh I see the plan.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:45 am

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:45 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:37 am If Roxy flips wolf I'm just confused by what this wolf team ever even did ...

And more so I'm confused by their actions. Lack of thread control. Basically like...wtf.

Exerting thread control is a characteristic of individual players. Mata and Roxy are, by their nature, lower posters who don’t seek to exert thread control. This can be an effective tactic if the town is eating itself.

It's an absolute disaster. With prs and God doc Scotty they should have adjusted

Further 1 of them was inactive and no voted at least one time

Two of them self voted at different points I believe both on day 1 and one stayed on themself thus losing their vote day 2. This is actually a huge reason why I've town read Roxy that play makes 0 sense as mafia if i was on thee team I'd be screaming in scum chat to just log in for one second stealth vote and leave.

Like... there's just so much huh and very little where I can go oh I see the plan.

You think posting in wolf chat asking Roxy to ignore a robbery she’s dealing with would help or even be seen?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:44 am [VOTE: SPF ] aubergine

True. [VOTE: SPF] aubergine

My tinfoil is solely on Dennis now I've dropped my tin foil on Sean SVS and obvs Golden but I'm extremely nervous about Dennis for a variety of reasons.

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:47 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:45 am

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:45 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:37 am If Roxy flips wolf I'm just confused by what this wolf team ever even did ...

And more so I'm confused by their actions. Lack of thread control. Basically like...wtf.

Exerting thread control is a characteristic of individual players. Mata and Roxy are, by their nature, lower posters who don’t seek to exert thread control. This can be an effective tactic if the town is eating itself.

It's an absolute disaster. With prs and God doc Scotty they should have adjusted

Further 1 of them was inactive and no voted at least one time

Two of them self voted at different points I believe both on day 1 and one stayed on themself thus losing their vote day 2. This is actually a huge reason why I've town read Roxy that play makes 0 sense as mafia if i was on thee team I'd be screaming in scum chat to just log in for one second stealth vote and leave.

Like... there's just so much huh and very little where I can go oh I see the plan.

You think posting in wolf chat asking Roxy to ignore a robbery she’s dealing with would help or even be seen?

I think self voting means it was possible to just not vote at all or vote off wagon. So yes.

Ultimately it didn't matter town died

But I'd be a little frustrated if my team had lost vote power day 2.

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:47 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:45 am

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:45 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:37 am If Roxy flips wolf I'm just confused by what this wolf team ever even did ...

And more so I'm confused by their actions. Lack of thread control. Basically like...wtf.

Exerting thread control is a characteristic of individual players. Mata and Roxy are, by their nature, lower posters who don’t seek to exert thread control. This can be an effective tactic if the town is eating itself.

It's an absolute disaster. With prs and God doc Scotty they should have adjusted

Further 1 of them was inactive and no voted at least one time

Two of them self voted at different points I believe both on day 1 and one stayed on themself thus losing their vote day 2. This is actually a huge reason why I've town read Roxy that play makes 0 sense as mafia if i was on thee team I'd be screaming in scum chat to just log in for one second stealth vote and leave.

Like... there's just so much huh and very little where I can go oh I see the plan.

You think posting in wolf chat asking Roxy to ignore a robbery she’s dealing with would help or even be seen?

woah she was dealing with a robbery? Man that sucks.

It does suck I feel horrible honestly

I've townread Roxy all game... and until that catchup post I was still town reading Roxy so I dunno

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:49 am

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:47 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:45 am

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:45 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:37 am If Roxy flips wolf I'm just confused by what this wolf team ever even did ...

And more so I'm confused by their actions. Lack of thread control. Basically like...wtf.

Exerting thread control is a characteristic of individual players. Mata and Roxy are, by their nature, lower posters who don’t seek to exert thread control. This can be an effective tactic if the town is eating itself.

It's an absolute disaster. With prs and God doc Scotty they should have adjusted

Further 1 of them was inactive and no voted at least one time

Two of them self voted at different points I believe both on day 1 and one stayed on themself thus losing their vote day 2. This is actually a huge reason why I've town read Roxy that play makes 0 sense as mafia if i was on thee team I'd be screaming in scum chat to just log in for one second stealth vote and leave.

Like... there's just so much huh and very little where I can go oh I see the plan.

You think posting in wolf chat asking Roxy to ignore a robbery she’s dealing with would help or even be seen?

I think self voting means it was possible to just not vote at all or vote off wagon. So yes.

I think perhaps our difference in perspectives is generational. If I’m dealing with a work crisis I am not reading wolfchat. I don’t have time for that.

Maybe. I still town read the self vote. I still think it's less likely to come from a wolf and I still think if this is the wolf team they never could've won.

2 of them have less posts than Marmot had in 1 day.

You need SOME semblance of thread control as wolf and they did not ever have it. Lucy like maybe did for 1.5 days but...I dunno I don't think I could possibly ever see this team with this game and vote into it comfortably.

I want to switch off so bad lol

I mean okay put another way. In Sabi invitational our team had relative to the overall volume of the game 3 ish low posters but I'd argue we always had thread control.

It's why we won in fact.

So it scares me that our entire poe is low thread presence... mostly. In a game where 1/3rds of the team already has low thread presence.

Like... my brain tells me this is all wrong.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:08 am So it scares me that our entire poe is low thread presence... mostly. In a game where 1/3rds of the team already has low thread presence.

Like... my brain tells me this is all wrong.

This game has always had the vibe of being solved, even when we’ve had the wolves wrong.

That’s why I’ve always said it doesn’t feel like there’s a deepwolf. And imo roxy and Lucy were never deepwolves, I agree.

It flies in the face of everything I know.

I hate it

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:50 am It flies in the face of everything I know.

Have you ever experienced it before?

It has a vibe. And what I'd call mafia 1.0, the mafia I grew up on and played with Roxy and mata, was very different. You lost if you died. Taking thread control was inherently bad play (which is why I always lost).

I never minded if my team won, and funnily enough I felt very resistant to deadies being able to win. I do think it’s good now, but the other way has it’s charms.

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:50 am I never minded if my team won, and funnily enough I felt very resistant to deadies being able to win. I do think it’s good now, but the other way has it’s charms.

nah slankers need to die

The point of mafia is to engage in the game and fool people not just coast and win

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:55 am

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:50 am I never minded if my team won, and funnily enough I felt very resistant to deadies being able to win. I do think it’s good now, but the other way has it’s charms.

nah slankers need to die

The point of mafia is to engage in the game and fool people not just coast and win

Oh, it was the opposite of coasting. Role madness games leave nowhere to hide, and people still asked deeply probing questions. One wrong thing could crater your game in an instant. It was just very different.

I remember one win I had as wolf, for instance, where a town member had a role that could force BTSC with another player each night, and they picked me very early and forced me to role claim in BTSC. I had to pick, and happened to pick the role of the first person who died (unflipped), and it allowed me some cover to weather heavy suspicion from others.

You could never have a moment off as wolf. You had to consider everything you knew about the game set up, what was your answer to each thing that could go wrong, how would you handle it.

In my opinion it remains a very fun game mode (minus the alive to win condition) which is why I created an entire role madness matrix with the goal of creating balanced role madness games.

As you can see, I remember how to hunt for power roles perfectly

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:42 am

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:50 am It flies in the face of everything I know.

Have you ever experienced it before?

I think one time in hundreds of games.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:55 am

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:50 am I never minded if my team won, and funnily enough I felt very resistant to deadies being able to win. I do think it’s good now, but the other way has it’s charms.

nah slankers need to die

The point of mafia is to engage in the game and fool people not just coast and win

<3

Role madness is what I grew up on but slankers were killed by vig or vote slanking didn't work I learned how to woof in a world where you needed to keep the narrative under control how can you win when you can't fight information with misinformation. It's easy to confuse town when you exert control.

Like usually what I learned was at most one slanker wolf is okay but more than that is a death sentence

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:13 am Role madness is what I grew up on but slankers were killed by vig or vote slanking didn't work I learned how to woof in a world where you needed to keep the narrative under control how can you win when you can't fight information with misinformation. It's easy to confuse town when you exert control.

Was it alive to win?

Because I think that’s the fundamental difference.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:13 am Role madness is what I grew up on but slankers were killed by vig or vote slanking didn't work I learned how to woof in a world where you needed to keep the narrative under control how can you win when you can't fight information with misinformation. It's easy to confuse town when you exert control.

like you're doing right now bragging to us

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:14 am Like usually what I learned was at most one slanker wolf is okay but more than that is a death sentence

I think that may have always been true. But in this era wolf also very rarely bussed because your wolfmate would fight back since you’re costing them the game. The whole meta was massively different.

The key point I’m making is that it’s not necessarily that mata and Roxy don’t understand the need for thread control, but that it’s hard to exert when it’s not your natural instinct.