The Syndicate

Golden wrote:Another quick hit, though. I like Quin so far.

You better.

Golden wrote:Another quick hit, though. I like Quin so far.

Get outta here. Wilgy and I have claimed him already.

There's enough of me to go around. I signed up twice, after all.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I gather that you think Dizzy made a fakeslip. I also thought you were asserting you would make a fakeslip. I think I misread your post.

I find Dizzy's responses genuine, but frankly the link will be determinative either way. I would probably make a fakeslip if the right circumstance presented itself, but I'd never really considered it before. I'm not sure what the right circumstances would be.

linki @quin - yeah, I think you feel genuinely hunty. It makes a change, me not actively suspecting you

Long Con wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm okay with that response, LC. I don't think you're a Day 1 lynch type guy anyway.

Well, sometimes. It has been a while. That's a funny thing to say though.

And you guys are posting a lot for it being so late. Can't get a post in for linkitis. Of course, I'm Mafia-ing, catching up on TV, drinking with my wife, and by the time I type a post, there's 20 posts to catch up on!

Dyslexicon, I don't want you to be soured on this site over this Scumslip Issue. Just take 20 seconds and link the game where you did it before. I am not finding your explanation to be all that compelling. How do you catch Mafia with it if EVERYONE is suspicious of you for it? You're so blasé about the whole thing, where you need to be forthcoming. Surely you can see that.

Alternatively, call upon some players who regularly play with you (there's some here, right? Fredwood, Stonehenge... JJJ, right?) and have them vouch for this being a normal, unsuspicious thing where you come from. I really prefer not to slam-lynch you when it's going to make you hate us, but you have to give us something.

Make this make sense. You have to be capable of that, if you're going to intentionally fake-slip for *reasons*.

Yeah, I agree with this. I'm not fully buying it until Dys shows us the proof of the precedent. And preferably actually goes somewhere with reading reactions. At this point I'm definitely leaning toward believing the fake slip story, but it seemed kind of poorly thought out. I wouldn't have tried something that risky without a better plan for how I'd reveal it was fake and how I'd "catch" people with it to turn it around. Like I guess the point is that the real scum would know the truth about the team numbers and so would react somehow differently, but how? What's the intended snare?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Some thoughts regarding the "slip":

~ To make the mistake being associated with Dizzy here, to accidentally reveal the number of players on the mafia team in a closed setup, would be a very rookie error. If you, dear reader, have played in a closed setup before even once, I think it would be difficult for you to make that mistake. This demands a total ignorance of the OP both now and in the sign-up thread. It demands a total ignorance of what's happening in the mafia BTSC, where the dialogue isn't likely to have strayed 100% away from the notion of the setup being closed. Dizzy is not a rookie: this is a player who participated in the same championship tournament that Golden, Sloonei, and Nacho just did in 2016. It is technically plausible that this was a mistake that Dizzy feels very silly right now -- but it'd probably be among their biggest flops ever as a player. It'd fit that description for anyone who made that mistake.

~ Fake slips are not an usual thing. I wouldn't say I see them all the time in closed setups, but it's not something I am ever going to be surprised to encounter. It's as much a matter of personality as it is that the setup is closed: some people just like to draw negative attention to themselves because it's funny and because there are reactive qualities to that behavior. I am not personally the type to do that stuff, but I have known a number of players who are.

~ If there is a concern that I have here with Dizzy, it's that they employed this "method" that can be a way to lure people into a trap (to make oneself an easy button target and then watch who capitalizes) and after the fact have no reads to show for it. They've expressed some "disappointment" with Golden, but not by qualifying that as a scum read -- indeed there are no reads to be found. So if this was a fake slip for the sake of seeing what happens, it would appear nothing happened; this is hard to understand considering the flurry of votes and suspicion that followed it. Please talk about that Dizzy.

And all this said, I still demand the link to the game you mentioned, Dizzy. I will harp on this until the link is on my computer screen.

This is all pretty reasonable too. As others have said I do think it's possible for even seasoned players to make dumb slips like that (especially if used to open setups where team size is common knowledge), but in these circumstances I am finding the fake slip claim to be much more probable. Especially given Dyslexicon's implication that it's a classic and obvious move/common strategy elsewhere and apparent surprise at how many of us took the bait.

I really would like that link, but in rereading the tone of those posts I'm growing more and more confident that Dys is telling the truth. Makes the most sense.

Unvote

Long Con wrote:Dyslexicon, do you drink and Mafia? I think my slips happen most when I do. Anyways, get that link, I really want to let you off for this, I'm going to bed now, good night.

I want you to fit in here, don't be discouraged by speed bumps. We will incorporate your style into our games, as long as you aren't ika and silverwolf.

Oh man, I'd forgotten about those two. What a trip.

Honey, I'm home!



Awkward clarification: My "I don't think I fit in" wasn't really meant to be me feeling sorry for myself, but thanks for the encouragement. Was more a jokey statement about different game philosophies. Also, I'm annoying in the way that I want to get reactions, and when I do I start rolling me eyes anyway. Whoops.

I'm home now and can start catching up/playing for real. Also, I'm in proximity to redbull, which is fortunate on a Monday.

Here's the link that some players are craving. Use it with care. http://personalitycafe.com/mafia/991154 ... st33762833 The post is #1630, and the game thread is long as fuck.

At my home site I guess it's more typical with a big variety of play styles, and definitely more experimental play overall. Plus, a lot of fun. :3 In general, I like to create [stuff] that can be read into, especially D1. So some kind of controversy can be useful imo. Scum knows I'm not scum, so if someone truly believes in my slip that would make them likelier town for me. Of course, since we don't know the setup, there might be more than one non-town faction, however it's likely that scum would at least know that I could not have the information I pretended to have. But we'll see, maybe I just derailed the thread and pissed players off, in which case I'm sorry. o.o

What is certain is that this thread need more gifs.

Catch up part 1

Strawhenge wrote:I'm curious why Dyslexicon felt it necessary to respond to my fairly nothing-posts with just, 'No.'

They read awkward to me. You were pointing out your own paranoia and it read weird. Consider it a spontaneous, guttural response.

Fredwood wrote:Again, the lack of experience forces me to defer on this argument. I probably shouldn't apply logic based on personal experience to people I've never met.

What experience are you talking about here? Can you clarify?

Silver Lantern wrote:You guys normally cannot change votes?

How uncivilized... heh.

My reaction too.

Golden wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:JJJ faking having the map is a decent towntell for me on top of fairly good engagement/content so far.

Is this fishing?

I like this observation.

- I like JJJ's description of Sorsha. The "distant" feeling is something I can agree to.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Alright, I'll hold off for now while I catch up.

Unvote

Vote Strawhenge

This is a bit curious.

Catch up Part 2

Golden wrote:Others more familiar - is dizzy correct when he says 'fake slips' such as this are common?

To me, they're almost boring.
But in mafia environments that play by the "lynch all liars" rule I guess it would be unheard of. I mean, if I were to post what I did as scum it would be me pretending to emulate my town play, so me playing like town that pretended to slip. That is possible, I guess, but if I were scum here I'd likely just go for a standard doing "pro-town" things. But that is up to town to judge.

Quin wrote:I've got some stuff to say too, if you'd be so kind as to answer to the contradiction I pointed out in your posts, Dys.

I didn't understand what you meant, so please explain?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Dyslexicon is taking his time creating about 20 fake accounts, posting 1,000 times in a fake Mafia game thread of his own creation, alternating each fake account so it looks real, and strategically placing the appropriate fake slip with his true account. He's modifying dates and time stamps with his moderator powers to keep it authentic. Counterfeit Mafia.

Lol, that would be THE BEST.

- It's actually blowing my mind that players can't see a possible benefit of a fake slip. Creating drama forces players to react. Town and scum would have a different reaction based on what information they already possess. The trick lies in the nuances and how well scum are able to fake their reactions. Reactions and interaction is what reads are made of.

Long Con wrote:Dyslexicon, I don't want you to be soured on this site over this Scumslip Issue. Just take 20 seconds and link the game where you did it before. I am not finding your explanation to be all that compelling. How do you catch Mafia with it if EVERYONE is suspicious of you for it? You're so blasé about the whole thing, where you need to be forthcoming. Surely you can see that.

Oh, I'm not going to be soured on this site, I like it here a lot, and didn't mean to give that impression! Also, I had all intentions of being forthcoming, but not immediately, cause that would defeat the prupose lol. None of the players here plays with me regularly, but I just did the same thing in a different town game, which is probably why it popped up as something I felt like doing. I'm not as original or creative as I like to come across.

- JJJ is talking about mafia philosophy about "slips" and his experience with them matches my own.

- Nutella is right that I'm doing things that is poorly thought out. That is my personality. Throw the shit on the fan first, and then bade in the poop. \o/

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:Peeps, what do we all think of what I said about Fredwood?

I just looked back and I don't quite understand what you're saying. Could you expand on your point?

I'm saying that Fredwood gave a soft defence of Dyslexicon while simultaneously using his lack of familiarity with the people in the game as a reason to 'defer' from taking a stance. Never mind that in 'deferring' to give his opinion, he already did.

I don't see the post in a bad light. I see a guy who is confused by a supposed blatant slip happening from a player he doesn't know, and feeling obliged to defer to the people who know him better (Fredwood doesn't know how new Dizzy is to The Syndicate). I'd like to see Fred answer to your accusation though.

It's more of a personal experience thing. In 7 or 8 years of playing or modding closed "Mayhem" games as the norm, I have never personally witnessed a slip of that magnitude, and I have played with a couple of absolute dumdums. There has been instances of them occurring but they are mythical stories of lore that old timers reflect on fondly as they regail the new players on how good Mafia used to be.

Typically the slips I've witness have been when someone is making a fake claim that turns out to be the "theme of the mafia" and we're able to catch it later when it becomes obvious.

My point is really, that unless Dys was severely handicapped it read as just fucking with everyone to create drama not a genuine slip. I like to assume that everyone who goes out of their way to play mafia is of median to above average intelligence unless their name is Linkor.

Alternatively this could have represented standard behavior by Dys to create a pattern of behavior so outlandish with the benefit of giving cover in a game where they actually are scum. Seeing as this is my first game with Dys, I would not know if this is the type of player they are. It appears to Dys' own statement that Dys is that type of player so strap in boys and girls it's gonna get crazy.

Long Con wrote:Fun fact: "Linkitis" was coined WAY back on Lostpedia Forums, where, for many of us, the concept of online Mafia was born. There was a player named Link McCloud who regularly was tripped up by posting when other posts had been made since the time he pressed 'Reply'. That's why we call it linkitis to this day.

Fun Fact rebuttal: We have our own version of Linkitis. We had a player on HCR named Linkor (I referred to him in my last post) for a while that was incredibly frustrating to play against and with. It was such an easy tactic for Mafia to push for lynches on him because Link would routinely be extremely suspicious in his responses and reactions regardless of if he was town.

In the game I first modded, he was the town vig/enforcer. We have a soft rule about not vigging someone on night one unless you had good reason or you are doing the low post count method. So as town vig he decides to cash in a revenge token on a guy and kills him, the guy he kills is town. Because Link is such a magnet for bad behavior the town tracker/watcher witnesses Link kill this guy and pressures him the next day. Instead of owning up to being the Vig he pretends to be the SK (a neutral killer role that has to be the last man standing to win) and claims the town needs his help to finish off the mafia. Needless to say he was lynched and Mafia steamrolled the town. Link was fun, always made games exciting.

Somewhat casual observations

- Quin posts 2min after slip. Don't see much wrong with the response.

- Golden doesn't think I'm very good at mafia.

- Strawhenge flags it, but doesn't vote me.

- Nutella is impressed and joins the vote. Nothing wrong with this it feels like.

- Scotty joins vote, say "watch this just being an arbitrary number". I find this curious.

- Quin seems pleased with himself.

- JJJ warns that I shouldn't be hammered (that would've been lol though). Still not calling me outright mafia.

- Silver indicates that it's "suspicious enough for a vote".

- Fredwood is the first one to suggest the post doesn't make sense. Unsure of mafia motive for doing this.

Some players comments later, but I'm unsure how much can be read into that as it's not as immediate.
I was going to ask why JJJ did not declare me scum or town, but didn't contest anyone who declared me sure or almost sure scum. But it was answered later with his long post. The fact that he held on to it is probably town indicative. Which is a shame, cause I really wanted to scum read JJJ for some reason. Also, the last time I played here the player I was suspicious towards in the start, but then grew to be everyone's top town read turned out to be scum, and I felt like crying. Fact is, the early JJJ stuff did not make me confident in him being town, but the later is better, I think. It would be very helpful if players who has meta on JJJ can tell me if this is very typical of his town play (as I understand nobody really knows what his scum play is like (?)).

Actually, meta in general would help a bunch. But I don't have that, so let's just get on with the (early) impressions I have so far:

Townish:

Quin seems town enough to me. A bit stubborn, but that may just be a general thing (?).

I guess I should trust JJJ as I find no real reason to scum read him even if I want to for unknown raisins.

I think nutella seems alright. Has a rather innocent way of posting, and the need to understand reads town to me. Also think JJJ mentioned meta to back this up.

Slight towny:

I remember liking Long Con's post, but I can't really remember why. I think it was something about suspecting INH for having an unchronological reason to suspect someone (suspecting them before they do what could be potentially suspicious). This just seemed like a good level of thinking, so it's at least not lazy at least. I'm keeping in mind though that I thiiink he comes off a bit different than the last game I played here and iirc he was town in that? This is a long time ago, so don't remember it well. Still more town than not.

I don't know SilverLantern, but his attitude reads more town than scum to me. Also his awareness of being defensive and the "oh no, now I'll be seen as suspicious" read more like annoyed at maybe having to deal with that as town, cause he'd rather just be town read (?). Making guesses, or call it a gut read.

Um, I could mention Fred and Nacho as slight town leans, but there's really not much basis to it other than feels. Also pretty sure Sig's tone is a bit different from last game (again, ages ago), where he was scum.

Suspect:

I don't trust Marmot. I don't like the way he's emphasizing claiming map, as it reads more like trying to "be out there" or gain town cred for (possibly) faking that after other more present players had done the same. Doesn't really seem to care about my slip too much, seems uninterested.

I don't get good feels from Strawhenge. If someone has meta arguments here, I'd like to hear it, cause I saw people reading him town. He also flagged my post without voting me (but kept on shading me), without giving a reason for not voting. I also didn't like his first posts pointing out his own paranoia, and possible buddying of JJJ D0.

I agree that Sorsha read somewhat distant and not wanting to engage, which is possibly suspicious.

Scotty is a name I remember I was suspicious of, but I don't remember why.

---

I make gut reads/feels/impressions that is somewhat hard to explain. Especially when not knowing players well. Deal with it and take it for what it's worth. \o/

Players not mentioned is some shade of null. I expect much scum wow to be within the null range. Also, a lot of people have posted very little, and chances of scum being within those players is pretty high in general.

I distrust JJJ immensely because everyone trust him so completely. The man is truly devious.

Fredwood wrote:Alternatively this could have represented standard behavior by Dys to create a pattern of behavior so outlandish with the benefit of giving cover in a game where they actually are scum. Seeing as this is my first game with Dys, I would not know if this is the type of player they are. It appears to Dys' own statement that Dys is that type of player so strap in boys and girls it's gonna get crazy.

I am, but I'm also lazy. So take from that what you want.

You and Silver were from the sites that don't give a lot of reads (which seems foreign to me, but makes sense if it's muchos mechanicos playos gamos)? I still want to ask you if you have opinions relating to players' alignments?

Lynch: Marmot

I do not feel the warm fuzzies, MM. =/
Why do you feel so distant? Why do you feel so cold?

Long Con wrote:Dyslexicon, do you drink and Mafia? I think my slips happen most when I do. Anyways, get that link, I really want to let you off for this, I'm going to bed now, good night.

I want you to fit in here, don't be discouraged by speed bumps. We will incorporate your style into our games, as long as you aren't ika and silverwolf.

Why do you want to let me off? Are you just an incredibly nice guy? I seem to remember you being more snap snap when I played here ages ago?

I really don't understand this map thing or what we're supposed to vote for in the poll. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TBH not a ton. I'm used to crazy mechanics bearing out results.

I do think you're town...this being a rather new site for you the overt mayhem you're creating is endearing.

SIlver is extremely aggressive as town in my experience, so meta read on Silver is town.

I'm reading slight scum on Jack, again from experience with him.

Marmot appears to just want to have fun, giving 0 shits is a hard thing to decipher for me so I'm reading scum

I am serious about not trusting JJJ because there has to be one dissenter among us, but I don't really feel scum from him. He's trying to incite activity not control the phase.

Golden, has been pretty helpful. And the flip flop makes sense if he didn't want to be caught in a lie. It would be easier to just leave it at not having the map instead of drawing attention to himself to say he did in fact have the map. Reads Town

Quin seems to run the pressure and is directing the day phase. Seeing as it is day one I'm getting a slight scum read. That is from experience again as it is usually a strong player's mafia tell to run the early day phases, both to garner trust because no one knows what else to do and to screen the other mafia from pressure.


The rest aren't really registering one way or another.

That's the first time I've ever made day one reads made solely on posts that were made not on mechanics. Praise me because I crave approval.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Dizzy is not a rookie: this is a player who participated in the same championship tournament that Golden, Sloonei, and Nacho just did in 2016.

My memory has it's definite limits - Did you mod the game I played here a year ago, or where does this omniscience come from? Do you just keep a dossier of all mafia related knowledge? (In which case you shoul try to play at PerC - you'd love this player, Braided Pain )

@Fred, That is interesting about Quin. He seemed very inflexible about the slip thing. If he's a confident scum player I will take that into consideration. Can't remember anything from Jack. Am hesitant to read Golden, but no reason to think scum for now at least.

@Fred, Also, when you say "experience", do you mean experience with that particular player or just experience in general? In other words, have you played with Quin and Jack before?

Well, if it was just the slip, there wouldn't be an issue I think. However the interaction with Silver, and the one about lady's being town Sorsha I think? (name of the player escapes me), and INH the interaction (Which I actually think Quin is correct for putting him to taks). Basically anything that flared up or was debated Quine was in the middle of it.

It's something to keep in mind not something to take as gospel. Just my experience with good players. Quin may just be the thread enforcer in general, and this probably just increases my likelihood of being scum in their eyes.

Dyslexicon wrote:@Fred, Also, when you say "experience", do you mean experience with that particular player or just experience in general? In other words, have you played with Quin and Jack before?

Sorry I guess I should clarify.

I have only played games with Silver and Jack before. So my reads on them are based on personal experience with the both of them.

My read on Quin is based as my experience as a player and a mod, this is my first time playing with Quin. I put less trust in that read then I do in my read on Silver. I would bet that there is about 80 percent probability that SIlver is town. I would say I'm only about 36.7 percent sure about Quin being scum because it's not based on previous interactions with Quin.

Alright, that makes sense then.

I want to hear more from Sorsha. She should hold the mic for a while.

Dyslexicon wrote:Lynch: Marmot

I do not feel the warm fuzzies, MM. =/
Why do you feel so distant? Why do you feel so cold?

This is the sort of feeling you get when you say things like "There are five (5) scum to lynch, etc."

My question to you is: Why have you been so cold? Why have you been so distant?

Fredwood wrote:Marmot appears to just want to have fun, giving 0 shits is a hard thing to decipher for me so I'm reading scum

At this moment, I give about 20% of the shits, and 80% just want to have fun.

I also 30% want to lynch Strawhenge, 70% want to keep things between Quin, DrWilgy and I good, and 100% want to win this game.



But it's occurred to me that 3 complex mafia games is too many to handle.

Golden wrote:I've never come across an intentional fake slip before.

What did you hope to achieve with it?

I'm not really that bothered about your expectations of me. I haven't played very many closed role madness games and they still have plenty of surprises for me. I might be innovative but that doesn't mean I imagine everything that others think of. When quin posted about a slip it felt like an epiphany.

Others more familiar - is dizzy correct when he says 'fake slips' such as this are common?

Marmot has already fakeslipped. I have already fakeslipped. Dizzy was just more subtle than either of us, but at the same time even more fake.
As I pointed out in a previous post (I am invisible this game, as a busy seldom-poster), there were three scumslips/classic scumtells in that one post. I can't see that as an accident.

And even if Dizzy is too lazy to capitalize on the reads, there's more information/discussion to be had on the way people treated Dizzy's 'slip'.
I've seen people fakeslip to get D1 rolling. I've seen fakeclaims. I've seen people start fabricating scumreads to get people pressured/riled.

This isn't that weird.

Dang you kids post a lot. I'll have thoughts on some other people later today.

Vote: Scotty

I failed a quickhammer in LyLo as scum before!

***

I probably would have unvoted without the link; my big problem with his posting was the "I guess I don't fit in here" post which looked a lot more like scum giving up and feeling bad after slipping than it did fakeslipping town.

Fred, if you're suspecting JJJ for the sake of suspecting him then I think you're taking a silly approach; making sure everyone gets attention is good but you're better off questioning people than you are artificially dragging them down in your reads list and telling them that's what you're doing.

Nachomamma8 wrote:Vote: Scotty

I failed a quickhammer in LyLo as scum before!

***

Which, coincidentally, ended up being ignored partially because it was "too obvious" and I "wouldn't make such a silly mistake as scum".

What does this mean, to "fail a quickhammer"?

Dyslexicon wrote:

Long Con wrote:Dyslexicon, do you drink and Mafia? I think my slips happen most when I do. Anyways, get that link, I really want to let you off for this, I'm going to bed now, good night.

I want you to fit in here, don't be discouraged by speed bumps. We will incorporate your style into our games, as long as you aren't ika and silverwolf.

Why do you want to let me off? Are you just an incredibly nice guy? I seem to remember you being more snap snap when I played here ages ago?

I don't know if I'm snap snap or not, but it is important to me to have an open and welcoming Mafia community here. You upset me when you said maybe you just don't fit in here, like we needed to try harder to make you feel comfortable. I didn't want you to feel bullied out, but I also don't have much experience with fake slips like that, so I couldn't let it go until you gave that link.

That said, I haven't clicked the link... I just trust that someone will, and most likely will find that you told the truth about it. OR they'll come back with "WTF there's nothing like that there!"

Nachomamma8 wrote:my big problem with Dizzy's posting was the "I guess I don't fit in here" post which looked a lot more like scum giving up and feeling bad after slipping than it did fakeslipping town.

My only problem was how forced it felt when he was being all nonchalant about the suspicion. It felt like he was trying not to let it get to him because messing up under pressure seems scummy.

Still think he's town, though.

Golden wrote:This is what a real slip looks like.

I disagree. I also don't like this post, which condemns Dizzy and then does nothing about it.

VOTE GOLDEN
Haven't looked at any of your other content yet, but I like voting.

Scotty's vote looks pretty bad as well. Generally, the spot that he's in is around where mafia bandwagoning begins to start, and his committal is weak. He practically argues against his own vote in a joking way that gives him an out no matter what happens with Dizzy. Scum generally fear early committal, in my experience.

The other votes don't look quite as bad, IMO. Though, there aren't many. I suggest looking at the immediate reaction of the people rather than just the vote totals, because plenty of people gave a rain check on the dizzy vote, or voted later.
Discuss?

Preview reply:
To fail a quickhammer means that scum had the means to hammer (end) a majority vote, turning the tables on a critical day and winning the game for scum.
Basically, in quickhammer, scum all jump votes onto the accused person at the same time, as soon as that person has a townie vote on them. This would end the final day with a mislynch, as quickhammering usually only happens in MYLO ot LYLO. (Myslynch and lose/lynch or lose)
To fail a quickhammer would be to not vote at the right time, resulting in scum possibly outing themselves in the grouphammer.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I don't take issue with Silver Lantern's defensiveness in response to Quin given that it was a misunderstanding anyway, and I also just generally think "defensiveness" isn't a very interesting tell in the first place. I feel like I see that accusation hurled constantly in Mafia and that it falls flat considerably more often than not. I don't have the hard numbers to prove that theory.

However, SL's content has otherwise been poll and map oriented, which is to say that the hunting content remains limited. That will need to change.

Why should a tell need to be interesting to be correct? It is not a hard tell for sure, which is why you pressure them on it and see how they react. From a general standpoint, mafia is more invested in their individual lives than townies as they don't want to let their teammates down, so defensiveness can come from trying to dissuade any suspicion big or small.

Silver Lantern's response to me was calm and read genuine, so I'm not inclined to keep my vote there unless my catch-up offers more evidence against him/her.

[Unvote]

Golden wrote:LC, the benefit is that it allows an item owner to get info into the thread.

Unless Spirityo reveals that a dead player was in possession of an item, how is everyone claiming an item really that helpful in terms of getting info to the thread?

Silver Lantern wrote:I am expecting the mafia will not vote as a block, at least not early.

That brings to mind, are the poll results stored anywhere or do I need to do a screenshot to retain that info?

What was the point in stating this?

insertnamehere wrote:I have no problem with people lying in order to protect the person with the actual map.

The part I have a problem with is fake-claimers taking votes away from the person with the REAL map, causing us to go places we don't want to go.

insertnamehere wrote:MM, Golden, and 3J all want us to go to a different destination.

Only one of them will benefit the civilians (assuming whoever has the map is a civilian).

That's a problem.

From what the OP says, the areas just give us different items to use, which we still vote on to give to someone. There is likely more to it, else I don't see why a map would be of any real use, though any region can potentially benefit us if we vote for a civilian to get the item. I was starting to think you might be getting a bit paranoid with this whole map business but seeing JJJ, MM and Golden all vote for different directions in the poll lends some weight to your argument.

Fredwood wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There are 159 posts in this thread, and 102 of them belong the last four players to make a post plus the host.

To be fair the next two are us new folks. 8 posts is actually pretty good for me this early. I'm not a quiet player by any means but I'm also not a 800 post per game player like yourself.

I will say generating day 1 reads is viewed as kind of pointless where I play. It's always a point of contention on whether or not day 1's should be as useless as it is and whether or not we should have more games start on Night 0. As a result I've gotten in the bad habit of just checking in once on Day 1 just to say hello.

Additionally it is interested in seeing the push on civ reads. Usually I'm trying to play the fine line between appearing town and scum. If you're too town you usually get killed early. I will see how this develops.

You seem to be reading an accusation into JJJ's post, when there is not explicitly one. Then you go on to have meta excuses not only for lack of day 1 reads but for intentionally appearing scummy. I'm not unfamiliar with those that approach the town aspect of mafia like its a game of Survivor, especially in backwards places that only have living town players as winners, though usually that is expressed more by not being overly outspoken rather than intentionally making themselves look scummy. Only top tier players that have a history of being N1 may try to toe the line to strike a heavy blow in later phases.

Fredwood wrote:Seems like an odd thing to slip up on. I can't really be sure because I don't have an expanded Dossier on anyone particularly Dyslexicon. Seems odd that literally nothing else they posted took anything seriously then all of the sudden they post game relevant information that would get them lynched. It just appears counter intuitive to the representation of their character.

Again, the lack of experience forces me to defer on this argument. I probably shouldn't apply logic based on personal experience to people I've never met.


As to Sorsha, the comment barely registered at the time as anything signifigant, but since it gives us something else to talk about, I guess it serves a purpose, still think it was a joke. As someone who posts a lot of jokes that people don't register I am sympathetic and perhaps too lenient in my view of failed attempts at humor.

That is how people end up slipping a fair amount of the time, they post in a way that seems like they're not taking anything seriously and end up being careless with the contents of their post. Dys was still posting in a non-serious manner in that post he potentially slipped, saying he has three scumreads with there being five scum, so lynch the inactives.

You really shouldn't be deferring on anything, the game of mafia is all about going after what your gut tells you seems off. You gain experience by striding forward with your own viewpoint, not giving up accountability to other more experienced players.

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:Hi everyone. Apologies for dumb questions ahead of time, I will be asking them all game and for games to come too.

DO NOT GIVE ME THE MAP, I REPEAT, DO NOT GIVE ME THE MAP.

Alright, now that I got the reverse psychology argument out of the way, should we try to coordinate the poll votes, or would that be against the spirit of the game? And would there be a benefit in doing so? I am guessing not much aside from pissing off the mod.

You guys call the mod the host here from what I gather, right?

What is BTSC?

What is Civ or Civilian? Is that like a regular townie?

I skimread Soneji voting this slot and now find myself wondering why.

Vote: Soneji

being able to change my vote continues to feel wonderful.

It is rather disingenuous to quote something other than the post I voted Silver for and presenting that as reason to vote for me. You did fix this later and even agreed with me on the Quin suspicion part, yet are still out for my blood later for what was essentially a pressure vote made with little other content to work with at the time.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'd get into more of it right now if I wasn't in a rush but in a nutshell making Day 1s useful is one of the first steps people take before they go from okay players to good ones.

I just got done yelling at an entire forum about this! Day 1 is crucial and I hate to see it treated like it's a joke.

This is hardly relevant to the current proceedings, just felt like saying it.

I apologize for NF's sake for those with that belief. I and other several others there have yelled into that abyss many a time to little avail.

nutella wrote:OK, so the other thing I was confused about was the whole deal between Silver Lantern/Quin/Soneji/Nacho. I've reread enough to get the gist of it but I still feel like I'm missing a couple things, namely (a) why Nacho immediately placed a vote on Soneji just because he disagreed with his vote/didn't think SL was suspicious (? at least that's how I interpreted that?) and (b) in SL's original overreactive response to Quin, did he ever actually express suspicion of Quin for it? Because I didn't get that impression, but Soneji thought he was "backhandedly" accusing Quin of being scum and Nacho wondered why SL didn't go ahead and vote for Quin. And SL's response about that just now doesn't really elucidate for me whether or not he did find Quin suspicious in the first place and/or still does.

Sorry if the wording of this post is a mess/hard to follow, but that's how I've felt about much of this discussion anyway, so my stream of consciousness here may reflect that


linki: Again, nacho, why do you think Soneji is automatically bad for suspecting SL from that one post? That's still the only post Soneji has made in the game, and I admit I find it a little odd that he found it worthy of an immediate vote (but that could just be a style thing/excusable by it being a changeable vote game), but he could come back any time and clarify or revise his viewpoint. That you're so hellbent against him based on a single and his only post in the game is a little odd to me. I do have a good read on you so far, I'm just having trouble understanding a few of your perspectives.

I called it a backhanded accusation because he never expressly accused Quin but he called his post a fake argument. Generally only mafia would have reason to fabricate an argument, so SL calling Quin's accusation a fake argument is tantamount to saying he is scum.

It is rare for me to make my first post in any day 1 and not vote for somebody.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Fredwood wrote:Additionally it is interesting* to see the push on appearing overly Civilian*

I guess that conditioning has made me not trust people who appear blatantly town (CIV). TBF I really only trust myself, and even the, just on special occasions.

I think there are two reasons for this.

1) There are lots of misdirection/cloak powers on hcrealms

2) There is a clear skill gab between the top...let's say four players and the rest at any given point

This means that the "most town" players could just be bad night results or good players pulling the wool over your eyes, hence the inherit distrust of early trusted players in hcrealms meta. The mafia "kill confirmed townies" meta reinforces this. I'm glad we've moved off the "target skilled players early" meta and onto "who hasn't died on night one in awhile" meta but it doesn't undo points 1 and 2.

I found the mafia kill targets in Unfortunate Events (my only other Syndicate game) totally perplexing. Not sure what to expect here.

Sounds a lot like how Narutoforums/My Hero Academia Forums mafia is at times. We have developed a more serious culture over time but there is a definite large gap between the top players and the rest, along with misdirection/cloak powers in our role madness games. A nice middleground between The Syndicate and your home site.

Dyslexicon wrote:Also, I'm not a dumb player. I don't obv-slip like that if scum. It would be me pretending to be town that fake slipped to emulate my town game.

Would expect more from Golden. "A great catch", really? Glaringly ovbious and classic I'd say.

Anyways, people are biting. Rawr.

When does day end?

So you're taking the route of "it was bait". This is generally the most desperate reaction to being caught slipping. I've seen intelligent people make slip-ups as bad or worse than what you look to have.

The "I guess I don't fit in here" post also seems like playing the victim to me. Dys has provided the links to the games he was talking about which I'll look into when I can, since I'm pretty much out of time for the moment. I can see the value in reaction fishing but when you do it for something that townies will react strongly to as well, it muddies the waters.

Soneji wrote:Why should a tell need to be interesting to be correct?

In that context I meant "interesting" to be related to correctness/incorrectness. I don't think it's an accurate tell very often. I don't mind the accusation being thrown out there, anything's worth exploring.

I see I missed a lot in being gone from the thread. I'm real busy y'all, Donny participation is highly dragging on all fronts going forward.

I'm caught up, and realize that this is why I prefer to vote no-shows on day 1. I'm not sure who's bad. I thought Nutella was playing the fences early on with her first few posts, but I like her recent posts. The golden thing seems like a pretty good place to continue down I guess.

Not liking Wilgy's entrance. Any time he plays the WIFOM card my eyebrow twitches. Both he and MM.

I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

Scotty wrote:I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

So, given that you've caught up, is this to say that Dyslexicon's link to a prior game example of the same phenomenon is meaningless to you?

What I'm not used to is this type of soft lynch style. Makes me nervous either we won't get there, or there'll be a runoff/CFD last second.

In any case, I'm quite lacking on a place to start this game except what's given to me. I've also never had a role like this one and I'm literally doing the opposite of what I should be doing to make my role fully effective.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

So, given that you've caught up, is this to say that Dyslexicon's link to a prior game example of the same phenomenon is meaningless to you?

I can't open the link right now

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

So, given that you've caught up, is this to say that Dyslexicon's link to a prior game example of the same phenomenon is meaningless to you?

I can't open the link right now

Here's a more direct link for everyone else

A screencap:
And for a little extra fun, a few posts later:
Thoughts immediately, Scotty.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

So, given that you've caught up, is this to say that Dyslexicon's link to a prior game example of the same phenomenon is meaningless to you?

I can't open the link right now

Here's a more direct link for everyone else

A screencap:

Spoiler: show

And for a little extra fun, a few posts later:

Spoiler: show

Thoughts immediately, Scotty.

Yeah that looks identical to this one.



Unvote Dyslexicon

Worth note:

The parallel is close, but it doesn't inherently make Dizzy a townie. I have to ask the following question though:

~ Does Dizzy have any reason to fake fakeslip as a bad guy to appear like their town self (typing that feels hilarious) in this environment where nobody really knows their town self anyway? I'm going to say no.

Silver Lantern wrote:You guys normally cannot change votes?

How uncivilized... heh.

I really prefer it.

Hammering leads to the violent "aha! gotcha townies" moment @lynch or lose.

Requiring you leave a vote in one place instills a sense of ownership and care over your vote.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:You guys normally cannot change votes?

How uncivilized... heh.

I really prefer it.

Hammering leads to the violent "aha! gotcha townies" moment @lynch or lose.

Requiring you leave a vote in one place instills a sense of ownership and care over your vote.

I get it, but very harsh and unforgiving for my taste.

I'm voting Wilgy. Don't know who hasn't checked in yet, if anyone. Nor can I currently find the vote totals.

Vote Wilgy

Silver Lantern wrote:I am expecting the mafia will not vote as a block, at least not early.

That brings to mind, are the poll results stored anywhere or do I need to do a screenshot to retain that info?

Soneji wrote:What was the point in stating this?

Which part, the top or bottom? And why do I need a point to make a random comment?

Are you really not able to tell that the top part is merely context for the second part? If the polls are not tracked somewhere, which I don't think anyone answered, then it makes sense for us to track them with screenshots to have another measure of where mafia could have potentially voted on a poll as a block. Makes no sense for them to block vote together on something that is public information at this stage of the game. So we can safely assume that if 3 guys voted mutant for example they're probably not Mafia together.

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Golden wrote:Nacho, you were quieter in Unfortunate Events, and then turned out to be bad. This reminds me much more of your civ game on here (Monkey Island). Do you believe this is a meta tell I should read into, or just a matter of your circumstances at the time of each game?

Unvote

Circumstances.
Unfortunate events was unfortunately a very weak showing from me.

The people who are good at reading me tend to read me by tone/strength of my scumreads; my tone as town/mafia is quite different (although most people struggle with picking up on it) and I tend to overextend myself as scum with some of my mislynch pushes.

You do this as town, too.