The Syndicate

Maybe I should ask you another question - who do you believe is a Nked member of the Cabal?

I know my assumption of TH being the Puppet Master was revealed to be wrong when he flipped. You should know who and what i mean with that.

Tranq wrote:I know my assumption of TH being the Puppet Master was revealed to be wrong when he flipped. You should know who and what i mean with that.

I do. I feel that role is bad and have for a long time. But I have no reason to slot them in to one team over the other. Why do you?

In fact, I believe the Cabal killed the puppet master... which is why I believe that role was on the circle team.

Based on a post i made Day 9 + looking at the voting records. SVS didn't confirm it if that's what you're asking

Tranq wrote:Based on a post i made Day 9 + looking at the voting records. SVS didn't confirm it if that's what you're asking

Well I just read your posts on Day 9 and... they could go either way, but you did expressly state you didn't think the person was cabal and if they were bad they would be circle, so...

And why do you think the Cabal killed one of their own? Manipulation?

I'm aware. It made sense at the time, Occam's razor and all, but i guess i was wrong. I expect an NK deflection or NK reversal occurred, either through square, item or role. Timmer's death by the Golem for example can't be explained by anything if we're strictly going by the roles.

Is your reason for believing Occam's Razor is wrong something you are taking on faith/trust/hope? Or do you feel there is objective evidence that points to this. I guess something Chaos Wizardy could do it.

Timmer's death may be unexplained, but it makes rational sense that the golem would choose to kill him.

As i said, It's thread behaviour + voting records. It makes sense

Golden, I do see what you're saying and I understand your reasoning. Like I said, I'm torn. What are your thoughts/feelings on a Dom lynch, atm?

My deal with SVS involves getting her revenge on the Circle for killing MM, plus obviously not killing me. Ideally this is achieved through lynching Dom today and her NK'ing LoRab tonight, though i'm not sure if LoRab is in her NK range tonight. Even so, i feel it's the safest move to get a civ win atm. I realise this doesn't make sense to most of you, but this is SVS and i trust her word as a mafia player.

Or what if there is no deal and Tranq is just a member of the cabal with svs?

Draconus wrote:Golden, I do see what you're saying and I understand your reasoning. Like I said, I'm torn. What are your thoughts/feelings on a Dom lynch, atm?

I do currently have what I'd call my 'order of trust' and it looks like this:

Splints
Sorsha
Dom
Draco
LoRab
Tranq/SVS (flip flopping on these two)

At this point, I'm ruling some connections out. Is tranq or SVS on a team with dom or LoRab? I doubt it. But mostly I'm at the point where more or less anyone could be on any team.

But I'm really not on board for either of them today. I'd probably be on board tomorrow, but frankly either tranq is honest and SVS has admitted straight up to being bad, or tranq is a lying baddie. I'm also sure one of them did attempt to kill splints. I have to vote for evidence over gut.

@Tranq - I did an iso. I mean, its ambiguous. A bus of luke here, a possible save attempt on juliets there. I guess I could see it if something really went wrong.

I'll be honest, your conversation today does somewhat make me feel better about you and make me think you do, at least, have a rational explanation for your motivations. I don't know really how strong or likely your reasoning for cabal being down to one is. I don't know how strong or likely your reasoning for circle having more than one is (I do see, however, that our feelings on this are probably somewhat opposite because of the same role).

I don't, however, share your opinion that there are better baddies to keep around. I'd soonest take out the person I am most sure is a baddie. I understand your point about using SVS to kill circle, but she 1) has to have the target correct and 2) has to kill them. If I'm right about LoRab's role, then I don't think there is any guarantee she is easier to NK than dom and, in fact, I think you weren't wise spilling that as the plan.

I'm shifting my vote to SVS - because tranq has done enough here for me to at least trust him somewhat.

I feel like a victim, lol. I keep looking over my shoulder expecting to see Ramsey Snow. Instead I see tranq & Sorsha

I would rather vote for Dom, he is not even trying to be objective, even remotely. But if it is Lorab, so be it. Dom has been *rabid* for me to an extent that is almost frightening. Since he & Lorab appear to be hand in glove, I have to assume she feels the same way, even if she is more circumspect.

Linki~ you trust Dom?

More than me, apparently

I mean, I've said this over and over, but maybe people don't understand it yet.

I have objective reason to trust every single person in the game. By my account, there should be no baddies left and the civs should have won.

Except there are. Two teams are still alive.

So, all I can do is measure the weight of evidence and try and figure out where I've gone wrong. I feel like I'm less likely to have gone wrong with Dom. This isn't like a scale of massive degrees or anything. It's just my feelings on a page.

Draconus wrote:More than me, apparently

That's ridiculous.

I am not 100% sure Golden is actually paying attention. Who needs to read the thread if you have info?

linki @ Golden, well good luck with that.
Linki @ MM <3

Add to it this...

If I was SVS... and yes, I know SVS and I don't think the same... but if I was SVS... and tranq was lying about this 'deal'.

I'd be ripping down the door to vote tranq and get everyone else on board right now.

Well,I know I am gonna lose today. Lorab has basically implied she is Skittlebitz, making preemptive excuses for having less votes than it seems. I know when I flip everyone is gonna say, "Oh well Trickster".

But um,no,

Please lynch Dom next. He is so bad it isn't funny.

Taking a note from Matts book, Peace

Linki, but you & I don't think at all alike as we know

I think Tranq is trying to lynch the Circle, and I am ALL about lynching them dead.

Well, Golden, I think one plan of the baddies is certain. They've sought to divide the remaining civs on which way to vote and who to trust, and I think they have succeeded. I don't think there will be a landslide lynch today. So I'm moving my vote to myself for the time being. I haven't thrown in the towel just yet. I have to head home from work now. I'll move my vote to the majority when I get back on (if there is one). If Tranq and SVS move their votes to Dom, I may move my vote there, too. We'll see.

Linki: Good luck Golden. I hope to share a winners banner with you soonish.
And SVS I agree with your Skettiobits comment completely.
Lol to the rest of your post.

Draconus wrote:Well, Golden, I think one plan of the baddies is certain. They've sought to divide the remaining civs on which way to vote and who to trust, and I think they have succeeded.

I agree. The problem is figuring out who is responsible.

One of the reasons I put you below Dom. Your support of tranq makes me paranoid you are!

I wish I understood where SVS head is at. She has never outright said tranq is lying... she even told dom to ask TH if she would make the kind of plan that tranq said she did (implying tranq was telling the truth).

SVS says we will all just think 'trickster' when we see her reveal, but I won't feel certain of anything on any lynch unless we see an affiliation or the end of a team announced.

SVS is certainly good at making me paranoid.

Death to the circle, that's all I'm saying. Killing someone you don't need dead for your win cons simply to get to someone else sucks.

Draconus wrote:@Lorab: I understand where you're coming from. I was actually hoping someone else would come in and confirm whether or not that behavior is metta for you. Rest assured my vote will likely not stay on you unless something else arises.

And a bit frustrating that no one has. There are plenty of people who know my meta to be able to say that. But, unfortunately, I think that some of them are bad and some of them don't know how to read me and think I'm bad and some of them--well, I don't know why they haven't said anything.

Tranq wrote: Tbh i'd also rather lynch Dom over LoRab as LoRab might be NK'able while Dom is not. I know SVS agrees. But there seemed to be more momentum against LoRab, so
I'll change to Dom if you agree. We need a landslide lynch today.

And by we you mean the baddies? Because momentum is something that one looks for when one is trying to control a lynch and create a lynch train. Which is generally not something civies do.

And I'm not bad.

S~V~S wrote:

Dom wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Dom wrote:

Draconus wrote:

Dom wrote:I can't fathom how someone would hear that Tranq and SVS made a deal so don't worry about it and not think WTF.

I'm not worried because I trust Tranq and I'm not on the other team

....so you trust SVS because you trust Tranq... you trust someone who openly admitted to being bad?

When did this happen?

Semantics, but:

S~V~S wrote: So I am not a huge fan of this being discussed this way, since it is not true, and I have not admitted I was bad to anyone.

When will you admit you're bad?

Oh OK,so you are kind of stretching here; rather misleading of you. You kind of totally ignored the "since it is not true part", but that is just semantics, too, eh?

I was half expecting you to post the parrot picture, so this is better than I expected.

And I am not admitting anything anytime soon since there really is nothing to admit

I had actually made this comment about your post, as well. Admit isn't a word choice for what you say you were trying to convey. I think it was a freudian slip.

Tranq wrote:My deal with SVS involves getting her revenge on the Circle for killing MM, plus obviously not killing me. Ideally this is achieved through lynching Dom today and her NK'ing LoRab tonight, though i'm not sure if LoRab is in her NK range tonight. Even so, i feel it's the safest move to get a civ win atm. I realise this doesn't make sense to most of you, but this is SVS and i trust her word as a mafia player.

No, it is not. But it's a pretty good way to assure a baddie win.

S~V~S wrote:Well,I know I am gonna lose today. Lorab has basically implied she is Skittlebitz, making preemptive excuses for having less votes than it seems. I know when I flip everyone is gonna say, "Oh well Trickster".

But um,no,

Please lynch Dom next. He is so bad it isn't funny.

Taking a note from Matts book, Peace

I did not imply that. I simply reminded people that roles are not the only way through which vote manipulation can happen. And that I like Chinese Food and have made other good choices in life.

I am not Scrippleskitz. I am not any baddie role.

And this is really looking more and more like baddies (who know my game well) are working together to try to get a lynch train against someone they know full well is a civ. And that the civs are falling for it.

I kind of think you did,maybe another of those freudian slips

The people I do think are the Circle are people I don't want to think would kill someone they did not need dead to win. So I really hope I am wrong. But someone has to be the circle, and I don't think it is Draco, Golden, Tranq, Splints or me. Jurys still out on Sorsha tbh. But you & Dom, yeah,I don't see any other solution.

Who do you think is the circle,Lorab?

S~V~S wrote:I kind of think you did,maybe another of those freudian slips

I didn't. Because I'm not. Again, read the post--it was a reminder that there are other vote manipulations. So that someone doesn't come back if I'm not lynched and say...oooo...you're scripplewhatever.....

S~V~S wrote:The people I do think are the Circle are people I don't want to think would kill someone they did not need dead to win. So I really hope I am wrong. But someone has to be the circle, and I don't think it is Draco, Golden, Tranq, Splints or me. Jurys still out on Sorsha tbh. But you & Dom, yeah,I don't see any other solution.

In answer to your question the post after this one, I posted that list during the last lynch. My thoughts haven't changed much, other than adding Tranq to the list.

And if you lynch me, you will see that there is another solution.

And voting SVS, at least for now, because self-preservation.

you won't just say a name again?

If you are a civ, you must want to make people aware of ALL the baddies whose lynch might save you, not just me.

This board is hard to search,I would appreciate it if you would list your Circle suspects again

I just looked,I did not see that post. Can you help me out?

It's that hard to click on the posts in this game button and read my posts from the last lynch?

LoRab wrote:I agree it makes more sense to lynch circle. But I also don't think we can depend on them to kill who we want to.

Who do I think are Timmer's teamies?

I'm not sure. I think Golden's trust in Sorsha may be misplaced--I think she could be bad. TH seems less and less likely to be good. Possibly Splints--need to go and read back, I know I had some eyebrow raising thoughts about her earlier, but I can't remember why right now. I have no read on Draconus, and have no read on him.

I don't think you're evil, but I don't actually have much of a read on you. But I've slot you in as a civie for now.

What makes you think that I'm circle?

Obviously, changed my mind on Tranq.

Sorry for all the multi posts. I amwaiting for someone to say something, anything, and it isn't happening.

SVS LIST OF WHO IS NOT CIRCLE

Draco
Golden
Splints
SVS
Tranq

COULD BE CIRCLE

Sorsha

If there are 2 original circle left plus the recruit, then it has to be Sorsha. If only one,I apologize, Sorsha. Telling me you stabbed my raccoon was not helpful.

NO REASON TO THINK THEY ARE ANYTHING BUT CIRCLE

Lorab
Dom

Everyone on that first list i have very very very good reasons to think they are either civs, or people not involved in the death of Metalmarsh.

If you know different, Lorab, please tell me

Linki,so Sorsha,maybe Draco,maybe Splints? Maybe Tranq?

That is who you think is potentially in the circle?

Why are you not trying to lynch these people? So close to the end and all?

Very vague Lorab. Kinda funny you are complaining about people not giving any reason for suspecting you and then you give no reasons with your "suspects".

I noticed Timmer wasn't listed in her possible circle either and he was alive at the time.

S~V~S wrote:Sorry for all the multi posts. I amwaiting for someone to say something, anything, and it isn't happening.

SVS LIST OF WHO IS NOT CIRCLE

Draco
Golden
Splints
SVS
Tranq

COULD BE CIRCLE

Sorsha

If there are 2 original circle left plus the recruit, then it has to be Sorsha. If only one,I apologize, Sorsha. Telling me you stabbed my raccoon was not helpful.

NO REASON TO THINK THEY ARE ANYTHING BUT CIRCLE

Lorab
Dom

Everyone on that first list i have very very very good reasons to think they are either civs, or people not involved in the death of Metalmarsh.

If you know different, Lorab, please tell me

Linki,so Sorsha,maybe Draco,maybe Splints? Maybe Tranq?

That is who you think is potentially in the circle?

Lol... That raccoon thing was a joke svs, come on. That's not even something that could happen...

S~V~S wrote:Sorry for all the multi posts. I amwaiting for someone to say something, anything, and it isn't happening.

SVS LIST OF WHO IS NOT CIRCLE

Draco
Golden
Splints
SVS
Tranq

COULD BE CIRCLE

Sorsha

If there are 2 original circle left plus the recruit, then it has to be Sorsha. If only one,I apologize, Sorsha. Telling me you stabbed my raccoon was not helpful.

NO REASON TO THINK THEY ARE ANYTHING BUT CIRCLE

Lorab
Dom

Everyone on that first list i have very very very good reasons to think they are either civs, or people not involved in the death of Metalmarsh.

If you know different, Lorab, please tell me

Linki,so Sorsha,maybe Draco,maybe Splints? Maybe Tranq?

That is who you think is potentially in the circle?

Well yes. Sorry if you don't like my list of suspects. I have not had BTSC with many players in the game, so have not been able to gain a breadth of knowledge about others to gain/lose trust/suspicion through that means.

I realize that the statue could have been recruited by circle. I don't think he was. But I recognize the possibility that I'm wrong.

And I do know different--that I am a civ. And that is a reason to not think that I am circle.

And I'm not going to answer the ethical argument that you're making against me--because I don't think it's true that I would do that. And I don't think that you really believe it, either.

@SVS: I'm not making cases because I'm defending myself. And I need to vote out of self preservation. And I am much more confident in the fact that you are bad than any of them.

@splints: It was a list of suspects, but not a case against htem. I named people because I was point blank asked. AND, the question was (as I introduced it): Who are timmer's teammates. So, no, I didn't name him as one of his teammates.

Sorsha wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Sorry for all the multi posts. I amwaiting for someone to say something, anything, and it isn't happening.

SVS LIST OF WHO IS NOT CIRCLE

Draco
Golden
Splints
SVS
Tranq

COULD BE CIRCLE

Sorsha

If there are 2 original circle left plus the recruit, then it has to be Sorsha. If only one,I apologize, Sorsha. Telling me you stabbed my raccoon was not helpful.

NO REASON TO THINK THEY ARE ANYTHING BUT CIRCLE

Lorab
Dom

Everyone on that first list i have very very very good reasons to think they are either civs, or people not involved in the death of Metalmarsh.

If you know different, Lorab, please tell me

Linki,so Sorsha,maybe Draco,maybe Splints? Maybe Tranq?

That is who you think is potentially in the circle?

Lol... That raccoon thing was a joke svs, come on. That's not even something that could happen...

Ha ha I know ...but I did PM LC to check

Skimmed the beginning to find the list I retract that bit. Still seems like more suspects then needed for that team and you have been very vague at your reasons for suspecting any.

So Lorab,if you did NOT have to save yourself, if I was already dead, who would you be voting for?

S~V~S wrote:So Lorab,if you did NOT have to save yourself, if I was already dead, who would you be voting for?

Hard to say. Because if I didn't have to save myself, I'd have more time to be able to look back at the people I have vague suspicion of (which is really lack of trust more than suspicion) and either confirm my inklings or discard them.

At this point, I find you and Tranq to be the 2 most suspicious people. I'd likely still be voting for you, or maybe for him.

But the fact is, at this point at least, I don't really have a choice.

So none of your Circle suspects, Draco, for instance? With only 8 people left you only find 2 people suspicious?

Pretty sure the game would be over