Death Note Mafia [END]

[Zombarella]

Eloh, please ignore anyone who votes for you first and asks questions later. Flat out ignore.

I am finding myself agreeing with Epi a lot today.

[Turnip Head]

I think it's a good question regardless of who asked it

[Epignosis]

Two observations from a reread of Elo:
1. She caught a little heat earlier for suggesting that we not think of Kira sympathizers as baddies. What do people think of that in light of L's post?
2. Epignosis, I noticed in my reread (through a quoted post) that FZ was one of your original suspicions. How do you feel about her today?

1. I think that was blown out of proportion. We're watching the show, and I myself commented on how morally ambiguous the characters were (along the lines of one man's terrorist being one man's freedom fighter). Would a Kira sympathizer try to convince everyone else that Kira was good in the context of this present enterprise? I don't see it.

2. About the same. I have started a couple of posts getting ready to refute what she has posted only to find that I could see how she came to the conclusion she did. However, I cannot shake the feeling that she is just playing along, only getting into the trenches when she gets called out. Tough call for me.

[Elohcin]

Elo who do you think could be a Kira sympathizer?

[thellama73]

Elo who do you think could be a Kira sympathizer?

Your head is on the chopping block and you really have no thoughts?

[Elohcin]

ebwop: that was an ignore.

linki....I don't know what to say to TH b/c he's TH...I am not supposed to trust him, right?

[Epignosis]

I would feel more comfortable if we all just stopped quoting Turnip Head's posts.

[Turnip Head]

Can somebody please ask Elo who she thinks is Kira?

[thellama73]

I would feel more comfortable if we all just stopped quoting Turnip Head's posts.

Yes, good point.

[Epignosis]

I would also propose this: Anyone who is unable to catch up/ having a hard time / can't decide / whatever - please vote Turnip Head.

You will out him as Shinigami, lynch him as Higuchi, or nothing will happen. That's my thinking. But please don't bandwagon someone else you haven't read.

[DharmaHelper]

Does anyone else feel like Eloh dodged Llama's inquiries?

[AceofSpaces]

I would also propose this: Anyone who is unable to catch up/ having a hard time / can't decide / whatever - please vote Turnip Head.

You will out him as Shinigami, lynch him as Higuchi, or nothing will happen. That's my thinking. But please don't bandwagon someone else you haven't read.

I thought you wanted us to ignore Turnip Head.

[Made]

I would also propose this: Anyone who is unable to catch up/ having a hard time / can't decide / whatever - please vote Turnip Head.

You will out him as Shinigami, lynch him as Higuchi, or nothing will happen. That's my thinking. But please don't bandwagon someone else you haven't read.

I thought you wanted us to ignore Turnip Head.

Ignore what he has to say. he very much needs to stay on our radar. What?

[DharmaHelper]

God bless 'em its the Epignosis Effect.

[AceofSpaces]

Well, that's interesting. Repeat for Shinigami, or is he Higuchi or a currently unlynchable detective?

Lynch him again after a few Day phases. If he's Higuchi, and he has a death note, he'll die. If he's Higuchi and does not have a death note, nothing will happen. If he's Shinigami, then he'll be outed.

This changed after L's potential role outing. Now he wants the floater votes to go to TH *today*. I'm curious why.

[AceofSpaces]

Does anyone else feel like Eloh dodged Llama's inquiries?

Yes. But I can understand why she might be a bit flustered right now.

[Epignosis]

Nothing changed.

It was an idea I considered making then, but didn't.

[Epignosis]

That was in response to this:

Well, that's interesting. Repeat for Shinigami, or is he Higuchi or a currently unlynchable detective?

Lynch him again after a few Day phases. If he's Higuchi, and he has a death note, he'll die. If he's Higuchi and does not have a death note, nothing will happen. If he's Shinigami, then he'll be outed.

This changed after L's potential role outing. Now he wants the floater votes to go to TH *today*. I'm curious why.

To further clarify, I also don't believe my approaches are incompatible.

[Made]

Well, that's interesting. Repeat for Shinigami, or is he Higuchi or a currently unlynchable detective?

Lynch him again after a few Day phases. If he's Higuchi, and he has a death note, he'll die. If he's Higuchi and does not have a death note, nothing will happen. If he's Shinigami, then he'll be outed.

This changed after L's potential role outing. Now he wants the floater votes to go to TH *today*. I'm curious why.

This actually fits into a thought i had but never said:
What if the point of a baddie saying what they did through L was less about Elo and more about suspicious players who have been drawing attention. that doesn't really fit into a theory with Th, but maybe Russ?

Speaking of which, he voted if no one else noticed.

[Made]

Well, that's interesting. Repeat for Shinigami, or is he Higuchi or a currently unlynchable detective?

Lynch him again after a few Day phases. If he's Higuchi, and he has a death note, he'll die. If he's Higuchi and does not have a death note, nothing will happen. If he's Shinigami, then he'll be outed.

This changed after L's potential role outing. Now he wants the floater votes to go to TH *today*. I'm curious why.

This actually fits into a thought i had but never said:
What if the point of a baddie saying what they did through L was less about Elo and more about suspicious players who have been drawing attention. that doesn't really fit into a theory with Th, but maybe Russ?

Speaking of which, he voted if no one else noticed.

Redax the above, i have no clue what i'm talking about. Heading to bed, tired af

[Turnip Head]

I bet Kira and his friends would love for me to keep getting votes and distracting from the real baddies. And now they all have excuses for not participating and just tossing their votes onto me. They must be thrilled that you suggested it, Epi.

[DharmaHelper]

I bet Kira and his friends would love for me to keep getting votes and distracting from the real baddies. And now they all have excuses for not participating and just tossing their votes onto me. They must be thrilled that you suggested it, Epi.

FWIW I'm glad we at least voted for you that one time. It revealed/confirmed a lot about you and your potential motives. While I don't think lynching you is our *Right now* priority, there is a more than good chance you are not to be trusted and your style thusfar has suggested nothing to the contrary. Fortunately for you there are people I would rather lynch, and suspects I would rather see discussed.

Epi's stance for example, seems counter intuitive. Especially regarding our earlier talks of voting accountability. Very easy to avoid accountability when voting for a possibly unlynchable/unkillable target. Advocating that option does him little favors.

[FZ.]

I, for one, do not intend to ignore TH, because no matter his alignment, he's asking good questions, and I disagree with everyone saying he's doing counter productive things. The only thing he's doing that's problematic is his early voting, and we have too many players doing that.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. If Epi wants to suspect me for that, haha, newsflash: Seems you're already suspicious of me, so whatever.

I have no idea what to make of this L thing, but since I wasn't feeling very good about Elo in the first place, this just adds to it. I have no problem voting for her, but if I find a better option, I'll go with that.
I'm still interested in what Bea has to say in reply to Boo. I'd like to see the exchange there.

[Epignosis]

Epi's stance for example, seems counter intuitive. Especially regarding our earlier talks of voting accountability. Very easy to avoid accountability when voting for a possibly unlynchable/unkillable target. Advocating that option does him little favors.

You have to get rid of Higuchi at some point, don't you?

If Misa is lynched, lynch Turnip Head again right after. That's my opinion.

[Ricochet]

Well, the recent developments won't make my gaming any easier in the following days. Disclaimer: Much of this is because I'll be in London from Monday until Friday, with business on Wednesday specifically, otherwise pretty much spending my days exploring the city (second time visiting). I'll try my very best to remain active, generally depending on how much time and fuel I'll have left in me at the end of each day, but I anticipate catching up will be a pain.

My thoughts so far:

A secret reveal may have just dispelled much of my suspicions on a certain player.

I am not drawn towards the idea of an "L manipulator or impersonator". Light's revealed secrets point to nothing of the sort he's done in the show (i.e. working with the detectives after giving up DN ownership and losing his memories of being Kira, or impersonating L after his death). (Also, it is true that L often came very close in his assumptions on who's Kira and his "sympathizers", but I don't really see MP adding a game mechanism such as "if L checks someone from Kira camp, he automatically learns their role". Could be wrong, though). As far as I noticed, TH and Made have been proposing these theories. TH initially also realized Light's secrets would contradict this theory, but upon Made pushing for it, seemed to have forgot about this part. Made's way of putting it sounded even weirded. BTW, Made, could you perhaps give us a second read on your thoughts? Honestly, I found your posts a bit messy and confusing.

That being said, I also have to think hard about L's message. I am pretty much in agreement with Epig's analysis of it, it's a real jump from his previous two messages.

I can see Elo being suspected for a couple of statements throughout her game: her ideas about Kira Symphatizers being bad or not (but I personally interpreted this as part of a sort of philosophical ponder on how much we should adopt or adapt the "civ/bad clear sides" into this particularly challenging game); her idea that Kira changing the timing of the kill is "cool" (although she also misread that LC would have been a Day kill, not a sudden Night kill) and her "very little BTSC" remarks/assumptions from last Night. But these are things for which she could draw suspicion from basically everybody hunting the "baddies". This could even realilstically be L's interpretation of her being a possible Sympathizer, but I still don't how he could have reached real certainty only from this.

If there are other suspicions regarding Elo, can anyone please state them again?

For the record, if I won't manage to catch up, I would be ok with flushing TH out right now, but it won't be because of Epignosis' advice. Also, yeah, TH is getting pretty detestable with his early voting.

[DharmaHelper]

Well, the recent developments won't make my gaming any easier in the following days. Disclaimer: Much of this is because I'll be in London from Monday until Friday, with business on Wednesday specifically, otherwise pretty much spending my days exploring the city (second time visiting). I'll try my very best to remain active, generally depending on how much time and fuel I'll have left in me at the end of each day, but I anticipate catching up will be a pain.

My thoughts so far:

A secret reveal may have just dispelled much of my suspicions on a certain player.

I am not drawn towards the idea of an "L manipulator or impersonator". Light's revealed secrets point to nothing of the sort he's done in the show (i.e. working with the detectives after giving up DN ownership and losing his memories of being Kira, or impersonating L after his death). (Also, it is true that L often came very close in his assumptions on who's Kira and his "sympathizers", but I don't really see MP adding a game mechanism such as "if L checks someone from Kira camp, he automatically learns their role". Could be wrong, though). As far as I noticed, TH and Made have been proposing these theories. TH initially also realized Light's secrets would contradict this theory, but upon Made pushing for it, seemed to have forgot about this part. Made's way of putting it sounded even weirded. BTW, Made, could you perhaps give us a second read on your thoughts? Honestly, I found your posts a bit messy and confusing.

That being said, I also have to think hard about L's message. I am pretty much in agreement with Epig's analysis of it, it's a real jump from his previous two messages.

I can see Elo being suspected for a couple of statements throughout her game: her ideas about Kira Symphatizers being bad or not (but I personally interpreted this as part of a sort of philosophical ponder on how much we should adopt or adapt the "civ/bad clear sides" into this particularly challenging game); her idea that Kira changing the timing of the kill is "cool" (although she also misread that LC would have been a Day kill, not a sudden Night kill) and her "very little BTSC" remarks/assumptions from last Night. But these are things for which she could draw suspicion from basically everybody hunting the "baddies". This could even realilstically be L's interpretation of her being a possible Sympathizer, but I still don't how he could have reached real certainty only from this.

If there are other suspicions regarding Elo, can anyone please state them again?

For the record, if I won't manage to catch up, I would be ok with flushing TH out right now, but it won't be because of Epignosis' advice. Also, yeah, TH is getting pretty detestable with his early voting.

Can you explain what you mean in the highlighted part?

[Ricochet]

Certainly. Highlights made by me in both quotes.

Night 2: So Long Con

LONG CON: Well, that was an interesting and illuminating lynch period!

At that moment, Long Con suffered a heart attack, and collapsed to the ground.

S~V~S: What the....??
BLACK ROCK: Kira, you sick bastard!!!!!!!


Long Con has been killed by Kira.

It is still Night 2.

You still have 24 hours to send in your night actions.

Also, I think that the time of the NK being controlled by the killer is a pretty cool aspect to the game. At least I am guessing that's why LC was killed now instead of during the night. In fact....if I were the decider, I think I would have them die in the middle of the day phase and MP would be posting about a NK at say 2:30pm and everyone would be like, "WHAAA?"

[Marmot]

Epi's stance for example, seems counter intuitive. Especially regarding our earlier talks of voting accountability. Very easy to avoid accountability when voting for a possibly unlynchable/unkillable target. Advocating that option does him little favors.

You have to get rid of Higuchi at some point, don't you?

If Misa is lynched, lynch Turnip Head again right after. That's my opinion.

This makes sense to me.

[DharmaHelper]

Epi's stance for example, seems counter intuitive. Especially regarding our earlier talks of voting accountability. Very easy to avoid accountability when voting for a possibly unlynchable/unkillable target. Advocating that option does him little favors.

You have to get rid of Higuchi at some point, don't you?

If Misa is lynched, lynch Turnip Head again right after. That's my opinion.

This makes sense to me.

Yes, that makes sense. Giving people an excuse not to catch up and then dump their vote on a useless option today doesn't though.

[Marmot]

Epi's stance for example, seems counter intuitive. Especially regarding our earlier talks of voting accountability. Very easy to avoid accountability when voting for a possibly unlynchable/unkillable target. Advocating that option does him little favors.

You have to get rid of Higuchi at some point, don't you?

If Misa is lynched, lynch Turnip Head again right after. That's my opinion.

This makes sense to me.

Yes, that makes sense. Giving people an excuse not to catch up and then dump their vote on a useless option today doesn't though.

What does that have to do with today's lynch? This appears to be a conditional strategy, not an immediate one.

[DharmaHelper]

I would also propose this: Anyone who is unable to catch up/ having a hard time / can't decide / whatever - please vote Turnip Head.

You will out him as Shinigami, lynch him as Higuchi, or nothing will happen. That's my thinking. But please don't bandwagon someone else you haven't read.

[thellama73]

Epignosis, do you plan on voting DH again today, or have your opinions on him changed?

[Marmot]

I would also propose this: Anyone who is unable to catch up/ having a hard time / can't decide / whatever - please vote Turnip Head.

You will out him as Shinigami, lynch him as Higuchi, or nothing will happen. That's my thinking. But please don't bandwagon someone else you haven't read.

I see the huge inconsistency here, but can you make a good argument to NOT vote for TH.

The only thing I don't like about this post is that Epi has been talking all game about taking responsibility for one's vote, but here he is giving players the chance to avoid that responsibility.

[Marmot]

I don't think we should lynch DH today, or TH.

[thellama73]

I don't think we should lynch DH today, or TH.

I'm not inclined to vote for either of them. It's between Eloh and FZ for me.

[thellama73]

What do you think of FZ, MM?

[Marmot]

I've felt better about FZ lately llama. What is it you see in her?

I also haven't reread Eloh which I will do today.

Linki: Oh ninja.

[thellama73]

I've felt better about FZ lately llama. What is it you see in her?

I also haven't reread Eloh which I will do today.

Linki: Oh ninja.

I am suspicious of her for claiming to know how much BTSC is currently active in the game (which Eloh did as well) and for saying I used the assumption of BTSC as a reason to suspect people "from the start of the game" which is simply not not true.

[thellama73]

There's also this from Day 1. I kind of dropped it because I was suspicious of how many people seemed eager to vote for her (too many) but then almost nobody ended up actually voting for her, so I don't know.

So TH is bad:

I noticed somebody has already voted for Llama. They must feel pretty confident about their vote.

When I said I was waiting to see something, it was regarding TH. all the last games I've played with him (at least to the extent I remember), when he was a civ, he voted almost last. He's a lot more indecisive. This very early vote gets you the and maybe even my vote

TH is acting out of character:

Two things are catching my eye at the moment:

1. Way too many people are behaving out of character.
Epi wants to vote for an absent player.
TH is voting early for llama without any reason whatsoever.
Ace is apparently posting a lot more than people are used from him.
I had more, but I forgot by the time I got here.

2. There seems to be some very strong 1 on 1 battles, which is something I'm not used to seeing in these games, especially not on day 1
DH and Epi
Ace and Trice
TH and llama

I'm assuming this is somehow related to the nature of the game, but I'm also thinking that maybe there are roles of winning terms that require taking out a specific player. Not sure what it says about the alignment of the players. I've played games where one of the mafia had to kill another in order to win, and I know the opposite can be done as well.

But these strong convictions are worrying on day 1 to say the least.

TH is suddenly good:

SVS, you said that you expect baddies not to be as aggressive because they don't know who they are lynching. But the thing is, they'll probably be voting anyway, and the chances of them getting a baddie are just as high when they play a less aggressive game. I would say this is their chance to go really strongly after players because if they take out one of their own, they'll just end up looking good without having to carry the guilt of throwing a team mate under the bus ("hey, I didn't know").

So maybe those going so strongly after others have an agenda after all

linki: llama, the thing that's making me hesitate with TH is the fact that he seems so casual and laid back, which I agree with SVS is more indicative of his civ game

TH continues to act out of character:

It's funny how TH is not even trying to come up with a reason to vote llama

TH CONTINUES to act out of character:

I can think of a few reasons for TH to not want to vote for somebody he thinks is bad

1) TH is bad and doesn't want to kill a teammate
2) TH is bad and knows that's not his teammate, but doesn't want to be involved with lynching a civ
3) TH threw out a random idea he doesn't even believe

anyone got other theories?

FWIW, I never made the connection before that the strict daily regimen thing would mean posting challenges, but it seems possible now that it's been pointed out

I have not ruled out voting for Russ in subsequent lynches, and hopefully by then we'll also hear his side of the story (if the silence only lasts today).

Did you get a challenge to vote for llama and get people talking about how ridiculous your vote is?

TH is good and anyone who says otherwise must die. This emerged slightly after TH openly said he doesn't want to lynch baddies.

Crazy enough, I'm actually contemplating voting for llama. I don't feel like he's his usual self. I feel like he knows TH's reason for voting him can't be true baddie TH, because he wouldn't do that, yet he's going after him and trying to find something to justify it with. I also don't think that TH's indecisiveness regarding the D0 vote was fishy in any way, and I don't think llama really thought it was either.
Something about how llama is playing strikes me as not genuine

Also there's this. People defending Yotsuba are likely bad:

The person most likely to feel it's important to depict Yotsuba as good guys is the one who's a Kira

Discussing Yotsuba is a waste of time. Nothing to see here.

Why does it even matter at this point? If you think Epi is a Yotsuba, do you really think he's the one we should be focusing on now? Unless you think he's a baddie talking about the Yotsuba. If he's a baddie, making the Yotsuba seem baddies to us is much better strategy. Either way, it's a waste of time

Nobody's buying what you're selling, FZ.

[DharmaHelper]

I would also propose this: Anyone who is unable to catch up/ having a hard time / can't decide / whatever - please vote Turnip Head.

You will out him as Shinigami, lynch him as Higuchi, or nothing will happen. That's my thinking. But please don't bandwagon someone else you haven't read.

I see the huge inconsistency here, but can you make a good argument to NOT vote for TH.

The only thing I don't like about this post is that Epi has been talking all game about taking responsibility for one's vote, but here he is giving players the chance to avoid that responsibility.

That was my point.

As for an argument against voting for TH, The only one that makes sense to me is "There are other more viable suspects."

[Turnip Head]

I know who I'm voting tomorrow and it's not Epig.

Who was this referring to, Marshmallow?

[Turnip Head]

TH initially also realized Light's secrets would contradict this theory, but upon Made pushing for it, seemed to have forgot about this part.

That's not true, I just had no reason to repeat myself.

[Turnip Head]

I am suspicious of her for claiming to know how much BTSC is currently active in the game (which Eloh did as well) and for saying I used the assumption of BTSC as a reason to suspect people "from the start of the game" which is simply not not true.

How much BTSC did FZ claim to know was in the game? I cannot find such a claim. Please advise.

And I know nobody cares about my opinion these days, but I really don't think FZ is bad. Frankly she would have no reason to defend me if she were.

[Matahari]

Apologies to hosts and players, I am sick and out of it. I will try to catch up today when I'm not sleeping.

[Spacedaisy]

Apologies to hosts and players, I am sick and out of it. I will try to catch up today when I'm not sleeping.

feel better wifey!

[Marmot]

Apologies to hosts and players, I am sick and out of it. I will try to catch up today when I'm not sleeping.

feel better wifey!

Get well and stuff.

[Epignosis]

I would also propose this: Anyone who is unable to catch up/ having a hard time / can't decide / whatever - please vote Turnip Head.

You will out him as Shinigami, lynch him as Higuchi, or nothing will happen. That's my thinking. But please don't bandwagon someone else you haven't read.

I see the huge inconsistency here, but can you make a good argument to NOT vote for TH.

The only thing I don't like about this post is that Epi has been talking all game about taking responsibility for one's vote, but here he is giving players the chance to avoid that responsibility.

Hmm?

Most people have avoided responsibility with their votes. They haven't needed my help to do that.

Anybody stringing up Boomslang or FZ. for leading the bwt debacle? No?

Anybody stringing up Bass_the_Clever or Aces for leading the Trice brigade? No? Okay then.

My point was this: If you are pressed for a vote but aren't prepared to make an educated one, the safest choice is TH, and I won't begrudge anyone for voting there because of the rationale I provided previously:

Lynch him again after a few Day phases. If he's Higuchi, and he has a death note, he'll die. If he's Higuchi and does not have a death note, nothing will happen. If he's Shinigami, then he'll be outed.

[juliets]

I am back in the thread and have decided to continue with the game because it keeps my mind occupied. Thank you to those of you who passed on good thoughts and yes DH, jokes would be good, especially if they are about llama and Epi.

[thellama73]

I am back in the thread and have decided to continue with the game because it keeps my mind occupied. Thank you to those of you who passed on good thoughts and yes DH, jokes would be good, especially if they are about llama and Epi.

Hey!

[Black Rock]

Maybe I just don't understand everything from not watching the show but why shouldn't I trust L? Why wouldn't we want to vote a sympathizer? I consider them a mafia group and I thought the object of the game was to lynch them. Maybe it's as simple as L outing Eloh and that just happens. Am I crazy here?