The Syndicate

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I would say the scum are just hiding their votes on non viable candidates and lying low mostly. I would say there are two scum at most voting for me, a serial killer, two OMGUS votes and elohcin.

I'm not a scum, serial killer, OMGUS, or Elohcin.

Nah you are one of those.

RadicalFuzz wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Because he is obvscum. Bullzeye is scum. Fuzz is scum. Look to the throwaway votes imo.

You got me excited that you actually thought I was scum, but then you don't list me in your next post. I feel neglected. I also feel annoyed that you asked me to put in work on post analysis and then call the result of that post analysis a throwaway vote. Would you rather me ignore the conclusions I've come to?

You are correct, however, that the inverse is true for you. With so many players pushing your lynch that's a slight indication that you're not scum.

So if players are pushing against his lynch, then he might be scum?

I don't follow this logic. Not enough players have voiced any input on MacDougall to derive anything from it.

Linki: that simple huh Mac?

Epignosis wrote:

motel room wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Self pres voting wilgy

I'll get on Epi if you go back to voting there.

Not anti wilgy atm. Out of the other 2-vote "wagons" I'd go Diiny or I guess Black Rock.

No one wants to stacks-on Choutas with me? Carn.

Why?

I've been suss of you for ages. You don't seem town to me, your answers are short and sharp and feel like you're trying to keep things at arms distance. There were a lot of locals vouching for you before but now I read just as many suggesting you're off meta and yet you're not a lynch candidate.

I don't know or care if you're specifically the SK or not, you just dont seem to barrack for town.

Epignosis wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

motel room wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Self pres voting wilgy

I'll get on Epi if you go back to voting there.

Not anti wilgy atm. Out of the other 2-vote "wagons" I'd go Diiny or I guess Black Rock.

No one wants to stacks-on Choutas with me? Carn.

Why?

Probably because you are the serial killer and you missed your kill last night.

Bitch, I don't miss PMs.

Mac, why would you self-preserve vote DrWilgy?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

RadicalFuzz wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Because he is obvscum. Bullzeye is scum. Fuzz is scum. Look to the throwaway votes imo.

You got me excited that you actually thought I was scum, but then you don't list me in your next post. I feel neglected. I also feel annoyed that you asked me to put in work on post analysis and then call the result of that post analysis a throwaway vote. Would you rather me ignore the conclusions I've come to?

You are correct, however, that the inverse is true for you. With so many players pushing your lynch that's a slight indication that you're not scum.

So if players are pushing against his lynch, then he might be scum?

I don't follow this logic. Not enough players have voiced any input on MacDougall to derive anything from it.

Linki: that simple huh Mac?

Who hasn't made their opinion on mac clear? pretty sure he's been the main topic of conversation for two days.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Mac, why would you self-preserve vote DrWilgy?

Reckon I can get the sucker lynched.

RadicalFuzz wrote:MM, my logic is as follows. If Wilgy was town and I was wrongly pushing him, Mafia would want to help me push his mislynch, and there would be at least some mention of him. However, the opposite applies, it's very hard to get the ball rolling to lynch Mafia because a portion of the game is actively working to prevent that. It's a small thing, but enough to irk me. I'm not asking players to talk about Wilgy, everyone will naturally talk about their preferred topic, but I'm observing a disconcerting silence. Were you buddying with me on this topic because you wanted to push Wilgy or wanted to get me to look at you favorably?

Wilgy I'm asking J3 many questions because he's both around to answer them and I want him to answer them incorrectly. To my dismay he hasn't yet responded illogically. And if that's your roundabout way of asking me whether I think J3 is town or not, the answer is complicated. I would vote for him in lieu of concrete evidence for anybody else, but my suspicion of him is still extremely circumstantial.

Nobody else has been pushing the DrWilgy lynch?

I don't think that's entirely true. I did vote for him for a short time at the beginning of this day phase, and I thought at least one player other than you was trying to get him lynched sometime in the last two day phase.

I do like your logic, but I want to verify this.

Linki: I bet you can.

motel room wrote:Diiny

No Wilgy.

For the purposes of this explanation let's assume that neutral refers to 50%, absolute town and scum are 0% and 100% respectively.

When I say that a player is hard to get lynched, that at most adds 3%. The opposite is also true, if the wagon on a player forms very quickly then that's 3% deducted at most. That is extremely minor.

motel room wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

RadicalFuzz wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Because he is obvscum. Bullzeye is scum. Fuzz is scum. Look to the throwaway votes imo.

You got me excited that you actually thought I was scum, but then you don't list me in your next post. I feel neglected. I also feel annoyed that you asked me to put in work on post analysis and then call the result of that post analysis a throwaway vote. Would you rather me ignore the conclusions I've come to?

You are correct, however, that the inverse is true for you. With so many players pushing your lynch that's a slight indication that you're not scum.

So if players are pushing against his lynch, then he might be scum?

I don't follow this logic. Not enough players have voiced any input on MacDougall to derive anything from it.

Linki: that simple huh Mac?

Who hasn't made their opinion on mac clear? pretty sure he's been the main topic of conversation for two days.

That's mainly because the most vocal participants in the thread have been talking about him, not because everybody has been talking about him.

I looked through your posts, you have him as a townread, and you also said you would vote to save him. Jay also has him as a townread.

MacDougall wrote:

motel room wrote:Diiny

No Wilgy.

well gee

why though? I dont see it.

RadicalFuzz wrote:For the purposes of this explanation let's assume that neutral refers to 50%, absolute town and scum are 0% and 100% respectively.

When I say that a player is hard to get lynched, that at most adds 3%. The opposite is also true, if the wagon on a player forms very quickly then that's 3% deducted at most. That is extremely minor.

I don't follow.

Is a followup post coming?

motel room wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

motel room wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Self pres voting wilgy

I'll get on Epi if you go back to voting there.

Not anti wilgy atm. Out of the other 2-vote "wagons" I'd go Diiny or I guess Black Rock.

No one wants to stacks-on Choutas with me? Carn.

Why?

I've been suss of you for ages. You don't seem town to me, your answers are short and sharp and feel like you're trying to keep things at arms distance. There were a lot of locals vouching for you before but now I read just as many suggesting you're off meta and yet you're not a lynch candidate.

I don't know or care if you're specifically the SK or not, you just dont seem to barrack for town.

If those are truly your thoughts, then you don't know me and/or don't read the thread carefully.

Pushing for a lynch is different than having your vote on him for a few hours at the beginning of the day, Metalmarsh. What you've done does not qualify as pushing for a lynch. I know why you don't want Wilgy lynched today, but that's selfish behavior and we can't afford to waste time.

Scum will be available to actively stop lynches against other scum and promote lynches against town. They know who their teammates are and want to avoid sending them to the gallows. As a rule of thumb, it stands that it's more difficult to lynch scum and easier to lynch town.

Motel I listed my reasons in an earlier post. He provides data but doesn't draw conclusions from it. The tone of his posts is that he's talking because he has to, not because he legitimately wants to spark useful discussion. He's banking his entire in-thread contribution into an infodumping plot that's was shot down before he could even get it started. Give me three stances Wilgy has taken in the thread in the last two phases.

RadicalFuzz wrote:For the purposes of this explanation let's assume that neutral refers to 50%, absolute town and scum are 0% and 100% respectively.

When I say that a player is hard to get lynched, that at most adds 3%. The opposite is also true, if the wagon on a player forms very quickly then that's 3% deducted at most. That is extremely minor.

Points for comment\user pic synchronicity.

motel room wrote:

RadicalFuzz wrote:For the purposes of this explanation let's assume that neutral refers to 50%, absolute town and scum are 0% and 100% respectively.

When I say that a player is hard to get lynched, that at most adds 3%. The opposite is also true, if the wagon on a player forms very quickly then that's 3% deducted at most. That is extremely minor.

Points for comment\user pic synchronicity.

SILENCE!

Epignosis wrote:

motel room wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

motel room wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Self pres voting wilgy

I'll get on Epi if you go back to voting there.

Not anti wilgy atm. Out of the other 2-vote "wagons" I'd go Diiny or I guess Black Rock.

No one wants to stacks-on Choutas with me? Carn.

Why?

I've been suss of you for ages. You don't seem town to me, your answers are short and sharp and feel like you're trying to keep things at arms distance. There were a lot of locals vouching for you before but now I read just as many suggesting you're off meta and yet you're not a lynch candidate.

I don't know or care if you're specifically the SK or not, you just dont seem to barrack for town.

If those are truly your thoughts, then you don't know me and/or don't read the thread carefully.

I don't know you. And I may not have read the thread carefully so I clicked that one.

Not sure why you highlighted that post - your response to meta?

motel room wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

motel room wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

motel room wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Self pres voting wilgy

I'll get on Epi if you go back to voting there.

Not anti wilgy atm. Out of the other 2-vote "wagons" I'd go Diiny or I guess Black Rock.

No one wants to stacks-on Choutas with me? Carn.

Why?

I've been suss of you for ages. You don't seem town to me, your answers are short and sharp and feel like you're trying to keep things at arms distance. There were a lot of locals vouching for you before but now I read just as many suggesting you're off meta and yet you're not a lynch candidate.

I don't know or care if you're specifically the SK or not, you just dont seem to barrack for town.

If those are truly your thoughts, then you don't know me and/or don't read the thread carefully.

I don't know you. And I may not have read the thread carefully so I clicked that one.

Not sure why you highlighted that post - your response to meta?

That, and the fact that 3J was anticipating a terse response from me (which you claim is something suspicious).

RadicalFuzz wrote:I think Wilgy is dirtier than Mac. My preference would be to lynch the player I am most confident in being scum. In addition, Mac is a strange individual that I am unfamiliar with, while I've known Wilgy for years. Speaking for myself, I'd rather lynch Wilgy, because he's aware of the responsibility to play correctly that all civilians have. He hasn't been contributing what he should be contributing as a townie if he is one, and that leads me to believe that he's not. The Mac lynch is more complex, both the case and the player (to me), so I'd rather take the action that I believe to be more correct with the information I have available to me.

Lol explain this responsibility Fuzz. Obviously I'm incorrect somewhere.

Also, you seem to be obsessing with me, while only looking at my interactions with you. Do you have anything to say about my interactions with, bcornett, or mac?

Epi don't steal my lines without giving me credit.

RadicalFuzz wrote:Pushing for a lynch is different than having your vote on him for a few hours at the beginning of the day, Metalmarsh. What you've done does not qualify as pushing for a lynch. I know why you don't want Wilgy lynched today, but that's selfish behavior and we can't afford to waste time.

Scum will be available to actively stop lynches against other scum and promote lynches against town. They know who their teammates are and want to avoid sending them to the gallows. As a rule of thumb, it stands that it's more difficult to lynch scum and easier to lynch town.

Motel I listed my reasons in an earlier post. He provides data but doesn't draw conclusions from it. The tone of his posts is that he's talking because he has to, not because he legitimately wants to spark useful discussion. He's banking his entire in-thread contribution into an infodumping plot that's was shot down before he could even get it started. Give me three stances Wilgy has taken in the thread in the last two phases.

His "ugh.." post after this italicized bit rubbed me the wrong way, I remember reading that. I guess yeah that was Wilgy (there are a lot of players in this game). Ok noted.

RadicalFuzz wrote:Pushing for a lynch is different than having your vote on him for a few hours at the beginning of the day, Metalmarsh. What you've done does not qualify as pushing for a lynch. I know why you don't want Wilgy lynched today, but that's selfish behavior and we can't afford to waste time.

Scum will be available to actively stop lynches against other scum and promote lynches against town. They know who their teammates are and want to avoid sending them to the gallows. As a rule of thumb, it stands that it's more difficult to lynch scum and easier to lynch town.

Motel I listed my reasons in an earlier post. He provides data but doesn't draw conclusions from it. The tone of his posts is that he's talking because he has to, not because he legitimately wants to spark useful discussion. He's banking his entire in-thread contribution into an infodumping plot that's was shot down before he could even get it started. Give me three stances Wilgy has taken in the thread in the last two phases.

Saying that I don't want to lynch DrWilgy is untrue. You are right that I have not pushed his lynch. I don't think I've pushed anyone's lynch today. I'm still reaction-bating and trying to decide where I do want to place my vote.

But Jay is on my shortlist, and per your argument regarding DrWilgy, I will add him to the list as well.

DrWilgy wrote:

RadicalFuzz wrote:I think Wilgy is dirtier than Mac. My preference would be to lynch the player I am most confident in being scum. In addition, Mac is a strange individual that I am unfamiliar with, while I've known Wilgy for years. Speaking for myself, I'd rather lynch Wilgy, because he's aware of the responsibility to play correctly that all civilians have. He hasn't been contributing what he should be contributing as a townie if he is one, and that leads me to believe that he's not. The Mac lynch is more complex, both the case and the player (to me), so I'd rather take the action that I believe to be more correct with the information I have available to me.

Lol explain this responsibility Fuzz. Obviously I'm incorrect somewhere.

Also, you seem to be obsessing with me, while only looking at my interactions with you. Do you have anything to say about my interactions with, bcornett, or mac?

where did bcornett come from here?

I was trying to get bcornett to answer a question for almost 3 days straight to no avail. Fuzz is only looking at a select group of what I have done and or what I have had to say, and ignoring such interactions.

Then, he says that I have a responsibility, but a post or so before makes an excuse as to why that responsibility doesn't apply to Floyd. What about Roxy? What about bcornett who still hasn't explained his JJJ vote?

MacDougall wrote:You Americans and your death penalties. Another in a long line of innocents put to death by a disgusting and stupid system.

I'm going to assume your an Australian like me.

If we're not lynching Black Rock, which I strongly believe we should be, then:

DIINY > Mac > Doc

"There's no alternate bandwagon, so Mac must be good. Let's make an alternate bandwagon"

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:If we're not lynching Black Rock, which I strongly believe we should be, then:

DIINY > Mac > Doc

Mac over wilgy even?

Epignosis wrote:"There's no alternate bandwagon, so Mac must be good. Let's make an alternate bandwagon"

Is this at someone? Is this suspicion?

Diiny

Hello Floyd. I see you have your vote on Matt F. ok

Out of Mac or Diiny who do you think should be lynched?

motel room wrote:

Epignosis wrote:"There's no alternate bandwagon, so Mac must be good. Let's make an alternate bandwagon"

Is this at someone? Is this suspicion?

It's what just happened.

Upon a brief scan of Diiny's posts, he has managed to only post in the last few hours of the last 3 day phases. Aside from that, nothing at Night, and nothing in the early parts of the Days.

I take that back, a couple posts early Night 4.

Epignosis wrote:

motel room wrote:

Epignosis wrote:"There's no alternate bandwagon, so Mac must be good. Let's make an alternate bandwagon"

Is this at someone? Is this suspicion?

It's what just happened.

Hey killer. What's your beef with me? You've barely outlined a case on me. You've just silently attached yourself to my wagon since I pointed out that you are the serial killer. Yeah granted you said you had doubts about me and suspicions etc. before I found out you were the serial killer, but you've not formulated much thought on me aside from blatant absolute OMGUS. Things like;

"You little shit, I want your head." in reply to a taunt.

And. "Really bad." When I asked how it felt to miss your kill.

Your vote is meaningless, worthless and anybody on the same wagon as you is playing into your rogue agenda.

"

Epignosis wrote:

motel room wrote:

Epignosis wrote:"There's no alternate bandwagon, so Mac must be good. Let's make an alternate bandwagon"

Is this at someone? Is this suspicion?

It's what just happened.

, said Epignosis in the thread that contained the mafia game being played.", said motel room, implying that commentary is more arms-length distancing shit but whatever.

motel room wrote:"

Epignosis wrote:

motel room wrote:

Epignosis wrote:"There's no alternate bandwagon, so Mac must be good. Let's make an alternate bandwagon"

Is this at someone? Is this suspicion?

It's what just happened.

, said Epignosis in the thread that contained the mafia game being played.", said motel room, implying that commentary is more arms-length distancing shit but whatever.

motel room asks epi a question that he sarcastically replies to and then motel room is starting to see just how not town epi really is itt right now.

Epignosis wrote:"There's no alternate bandwagon, so Mac must be good. Let's make an alternate bandwagon"

Your wagon is shit, I'm going with a different one.

motel room wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:If we're not lynching Black Rock, which I strongly believe we should be, then:

DIINY > Mac > Doc

Mac over wilgy even?

I haven't really felt anything stated against Wilgy has been convincing. Mac is a town read too, but at this point I don't see how he survives the game and that makes him a late-game weapon for the scum if I'm right.

I think Black Rock is more suspicious than whoever you've voted for (unless you're Russ).

Review the following string of posts and tell me she isn't absolutely lying about her treatment of Roxy:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Spoiler: show

Black Rock wrote:Now that I'm all caught up, does anyone else get the feeling that Roxy could be the SK?

Just a feeling I had as I was catching up. Her tone when discussing such matters... I don't know seems a bit off.

The read on Roxy could be dead on for all I know, but the language is elite-tier vague. Mafia members would love to find the SK too, so it's noteworthy that BR joined this discussion despite having a somewhat limited focus as a baddie-hunter prior to this.

Spoiler: show

Black Rock wrote:The whole time I was catching up and actually reading Roxys posts I thought it was Unfurl. While I was writing the post I noticed Unfurl was not playing. I then went back and saw it was in fact Roxy and changed the name in my post. Because of her Avatar I have two very different opinions on Roxy. Does she know something about Matt or is she a killer? By her posts I am leaning towards killer, by her voting record I am leaning towards info. What is a lady to do.

I'm willing to believe this mixup was genuine, but I'd expect it to have some impact on her read. If the read is entirely based on tone (see prior post), then the identity of the player conveying that tone should be pretty critical. She might have forced herself to maintain her read.

Spoiler: show

Black Rock wrote:

fingersplints wrote:No, BR I do not think Roxy is the SK. I have a hard time believing someone who knows her like you do would actually think that she would Nk a fairly new player to the site N1.

I agree with the kill inheriting discussed. If I had one faction killing one night, and the second another, whatever team left would inherit the kill regardless of size. I think I've seen it eliminated, but this is most likely imo

I should probably just be lynched because I deserve to die on account of missing the vote and all.

I think that is a bit narrow minded. I wouldn't knock her off the list just because of a night one kill.

I must admit I have no idea who was killed night one. I decided to move forward to keep up with the game as it is playing out.

I like your soft defend coupled with a soft accuse. Well played.

I see how you think you deserve to die, but I deserve to die because I missed a lynch and then didn't complete my punishment.

Throws shade at splints for "soft defending" Roxy, which is an interesting accusation if she thinks of Roxy as a SK candidate and not a mafia candidate.

Spoiler: show

Black Rock wrote:

fingersplints wrote:I don't think it's narrow minded at all. I think her posts, and her votes have been civvie minded, plus I don't think the kills match Rox at all. So it's many reasons. It seems like just trying to find reasons to suspect her. What posts specifically make you think she might be the SK then?

I deserve to die more

You are literally making a mountain out of a mole hill. The post was designed to get Roxy in here so I could have a more solid read on her. Instead I have her knight riding in here on her white horse. What should I make of that Splints? Now my post is meaningless for what it was designed to do. I guess I will put a big ? mark beside her and read more up on you.

Okay, I outright don't believe the highlighted sentence. I think BR was genuinely trying to generate lynch-inclined pressure on Roxy as a SK suspect -- and that she'd claim it merely for pressure's sake is a bad look.

Spoiler: show

Black Rock wrote:I read Splints posts. She came into the game assuming Roxy is civvie because of who was killed night 1. I know Roxy doesn't like to pick on new players but I also know she can be pretty ruthless. If she didn't want to kill new players she would be less likely the SK but Splints doesn't think she could be on the baddie team either?

I still am leaning one way towards Roxy more than the other but I am going to reserve judgement for now. I find it more interesting that she has voted for Matt 5 times in a row.

I am undecided on Matt vs Mac. I'm hoping to see what I perceive to be an honest reaction from Roxy about my theories.

I deserve to die because I am an awful player who should have a better memory regarding punishments.

I think I can see splints' beef with BR pretty clearly now. I think my reads on these two have reversed.

Spoiler: show

Black Rock wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:fingersplints was highly aggressive against Black Rock in Economics Mafia. Turned out she was town and BR was mafia, so her read was accurate. Does anyone who played in or observed that game feel this parallel is meaningful?

That's not the first incident. We are at odds frequently. Sometimes we are civ vs civ, sometimes she's bad and sometimes I am.

I'm having a day. When I say a day, I mean I have been very angry all day and want to punch someone in the face. I am only coming in here to vote. I am going to vote Devin.

I am going to leave the Roxy and Splints thing alone for now. It turns out some of the shit I was reading in Roxy had other things going on that I was unaware of. With respect to Roxy I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt.

I deserve to die for various reasons.

Potentially an important vote contributing to the eventual demise of Devin, and it came after his self-vote.

~~~

Black Rock is suspicious. I endorse her lynch, and offer my apologies to both Epi and splints for taking this long to do this analysis and come to the conclusions you've been pushing for a while.

I could do a black rock vote. Dunno if it'd pick up enough steam

I'll be honest though: I haven't had time to thoroughly review and process the points people have raised against DrWilgy. I'll give you the opportunity now:

Is there more to it than this, which is what it appears on the surface:

"His posts are designed to appear helpful but really aren't, he's just giving us filler material. He hasn't drawn as much information from his own workload as I would like, and I think he is avoiding taking many stances."

motel room wrote:I could do a black rock vote. Dunno if it'd pick up enough steam

It can if you help me. There's still time to lynch anyone.

BLACK ROCK

alrighty, Black Rock

Wilgy you, as a Mafia player who understands the game, are aware of something. Information is king. Suspicions, reads, inklings, any game-relevant information helps town (barring extremes like knowing who Medic/UC are), and every civilian should aim to increase the total knowledge base of the town by giving their information as best they can. Your contributions have been raw vote data, trying to get bcornett to answer a question, and now implying you believe I'm dirty. If this is all you have to your name after six days, you are not helping the town win.

I thought my stance on Floyd was clear earlier but I'll reiterate. He looks bad, for the most part completely objectively. The logical conclusion if he looks objectively bad is that he is most likely bad. I will not be voting for him for illogical reasons. The reason I'm not going over any other players for the particularly same reason as you, Wilgy, is because I don't know them. I'm not going to assume that I know what Roxy believes to be good town play. I know that you're aware of your low contribution, but rather than trying to fix the problem you're attempting a No U, and that's not the correct move for town Wilgy here.

Motel, since you're familiar with the series, let's play a game. If I was L, who would Near be?

Epi, I'm trying to stress that ease of lynching is a minimal factor for my decision making process. Blame me for suggesting a Chinese fire drill, as I did, but don't omit that I wanted a Chinese fire drill onto my suspect in Wilgy.

J3, those are my suspicions against him. They're amplified because I know he doesn't believe in playing town like he currently is, however. I don't expect other players to have that coefficient due to familiarity, but I'll offer a substitution. Wilgy stated that he and I play very well off of each other. Has he made attempts to reach out to me in the thread, or has it been me attempting to work with him?

I have a very clear understanding in my head of why Ricochet wants to lynch Mac.

I have a decent understanding of why Matt F wants to lynch Mac.

I have a decent understanding of why DrWilgy wants to lynch Mac.

I don't know much about why Metalmarsh wants to lynch Mac.

I don't know much about why Epignosis wants to lynch Mac.

I don't know much about why Elohcin wants to lynch Mac.

MacDougall wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

motel room wrote:

Epignosis wrote:"There's no alternate bandwagon, so Mac must be good. Let's make an alternate bandwagon"

Is this at someone? Is this suspicion?

It's what just happened.

Hey killer. What's your beef with me? You've barely outlined a case on me. You've just silently attached yourself to my wagon since I pointed out that you are the serial killer. Yeah granted you said you had doubts about me and suspicions etc. before I found out you were the serial killer, but you've not formulated much thought on me aside from blatant absolute OMGUS. Things like;

"You little shit, I want your head." in reply to a taunt.

And. "Really bad." When I asked how it felt to miss your kill.

Your vote is meaningless, worthless and anybody on the same wagon as you is playing into your rogue agenda.

motel room wrote:alrighty, Black Rock

I'd recommend keeping your finger near the trigger in case it doesn't happen.