The Syndicate

Black Rock wrote:Maybe I just don't understand everything from not watching the show but why shouldn't I trust L? Why wouldn't we want to vote a sympathizer? I consider them a mafia group and I thought the object of the game was to lynch them. Maybe it's as simple as L outing Eloh and that just happens. Am I crazy here?

I don't think you're crazy. I may well vote Eloh, and I don't have any reason to distrust L, but I want to think it through and not just react blindly.

Epi, since when have the "first" voters been the accountable ones?

Bass random-voted for IRL reasons.

Boomslang set the case up on BWT.

No one feels Aces is bad (feel free to prove me wrong).

As for FZ, well she is being held accountable, though there are various other reasons for it.

Looks like some of my questions might have been missed, so I'll repost them

@Metalmarsh:

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I know who I'm voting tomorrow and it's not Epig.

Who was this referring to, Marshmallow?

@llama:

Turnip Head wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I am suspicious of her for claiming to know how much BTSC is currently active in the game (which Eloh did as well) and for saying I used the assumption of BTSC as a reason to suspect people "from the start of the game" which is simply not not true.

How much BTSC did FZ claim to know was in the game? I cannot find such a claim. Please advise.

thellama73 wrote:

Black Rock wrote:Maybe I just don't understand everything from not watching the show but why shouldn't I trust L? Why wouldn't we want to vote a sympathizer? I consider them a mafia group and I thought the object of the game was to lynch them. Maybe it's as simple as L outing Eloh and that just happens. Am I crazy here?

I don't think you're crazy. I may well vote Eloh, and I don't have any reason to distrust L, but I want to think it through and not just react blindly.

I understand that, I have been thinking it through. This is why I haven't voted yet. I have read the thread. I have started to over think it. I keep coming back to the simplest answer.

Turnip Head wrote:Looks like some of my questions might have been missed, so I'll repost them

@Metalmarsh:

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I know who I'm voting tomorrow and it's not Epig.

Who was this referring to, Marshmallow?

It was a joke. Made and llama keep saying it, so I've been using it.

But I don't plan on voting Epig today.

Black Rock wrote:Maybe I just don't understand everything from not watching the show but why shouldn't I trust L? Why wouldn't we want to vote a sympathizer? I consider them a mafia group and I thought the object of the game was to lynch them. Maybe it's as simple as L outing Eloh and that just happens. Am I crazy here?

Do you believe that "L outing Eloh" or any other player in the future is an allowed or reasonable game mechanism?

Also inb4 Epignosis reminds you the detective objective is to lynch all Kiras.

thellama73 wrote:Epignosis, do you plan on voting DH again today, or have your opinions on him changed?

My opinions haven't really changed, but I'm looking over some other people.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Epi, since when have the "first" voters been the accountable ones?

Why can't they be? Are you suggesting that the people who jump on in the middle or at the end are the accountable ones?

Maybe they should all be equally accountable. But how do you manage that?

Ricochet wrote:

Black Rock wrote:Maybe I just don't understand everything from not watching the show but why shouldn't I trust L? Why wouldn't we want to vote a sympathizer? I consider them a mafia group and I thought the object of the game was to lynch them. Maybe it's as simple as L outing Eloh and that just happens. Am I crazy here?

Do you believe that "L outing Eloh" or any other player in the future is an allowed or reasonable game mechanism?

Also inb4 Epignosis reminds you the detective objective is to lynch all Kiras.

My personal thoughts are yes, I think it is.

I don't need to be reminded, that was me being dramatic for effect.

Caught up and, damn, Elo is in a tight spot here. I'm personally going to take L's posts firmly onboard because he is the only confirmed civ voice in this game. There could easily be secrets that could alter a message or something though, that would just be speculating.

Epignosis wrote:However, while L may be the best detective in the world, the person playing as L is not. Given the host's position on outing, I question info dumped into the thread by proxy of the host.

I agree with this. This latest L post is a complete departure from the previous ones and that is worrying to me. However, it doesn't mean I'm dicounting it, as if L were to find a Kira sympathizer after two fruitless investigations it would stand out.

All-in-all, I'd probably lean voting Elo but only slighly. A bit more discussion and I could vote elsewhere if there's enough doubt.

As for he-who-shall-not-be-quoted:

My opinion on L's Elo statement is pretty similar to Epi's. Given MP's stance on info dumping, why would he create a role that can freely into dump with no consequences? I just doubt that this role has a mechanic that allows for gaining information with absolute certainty. However, he obviously believes it to be true with a lot of confidence and it is good reason to give it consideration.

linki @BR and Rico: knowing MP, I doubt he would do that. Very much. He always has these percentage chances and opportunities for misinformation. I would be surprised if he had L able to gain info with absolute certainty.

thellama73 wrote:

Black Rock wrote:Maybe I just don't understand everything from not watching the show but why shouldn't I trust L? Why wouldn't we want to vote a sympathizer? I consider them a mafia group and I thought the object of the game was to lynch them. Maybe it's as simple as L outing Eloh and that just happens. Am I crazy here?

I don't think you're crazy. I may well vote Eloh, and I don't have any reason to distrust L, but I want to think it through and not just react blindly.

BR, I agree with what llama says here but I also have to reconcile why MP would allow an infodump like this. He said at the beginning he would go ballistic if it happened (this or outting someone) so why is it ok in this instance.

linki zeek, BR, daisy will read after posting

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Epignosis, do you plan on voting DH again today, or have your opinions on him changed?

My opinions haven't really changed, but I'm looking over some other people.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Epi, since when have the "first" voters been the accountable ones?

Why can't they be? Are you suggesting that the people who jump on in the middle or at the end are the accountable ones?

Maybe they should all be equally accountable. But how do you manage that?

Those voters can be accountable as well or instead of. But all lynches are not built the same. Or I guess we can go ahead and clear you and Zomba for being the first ones on the Snowman lynch.

Nope, I don't like that idea. Zomba might be a detective, but I don't think you are.

Spacedaisy wrote:My opinion on L's Elo statement is pretty similar to Epi's. Given MP's stance on info dumping, why would he create a role that can freely into dump with no consequences? I just doubt that this role has a mechanic that allows for gaining information with absolute certainty. However, he obviously believes it to be true with a lot of confidence and it is good reason to give it consideration.

linki @BR and Rico: knowing MP, I doubt he would do that. Very much. He always has these percentage chances and opportunities for misinformation. I would be surprised if he had L able to gain info with absolute certainty.

Here's a thought. Since L does not need Kira Sympathizers dead, maybe he has better "insight" in catching them. Those characters are not as slippery as Light or Misa.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Epignosis, do you plan on voting DH again today, or have your opinions on him changed?

My opinions haven't really changed, but I'm looking over some other people.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Epi, since when have the "first" voters been the accountable ones?

Why can't they be? Are you suggesting that the people who jump on in the middle or at the end are the accountable ones?

Maybe they should all be equally accountable. But how do you manage that?

Those voters can be accountable as well or instead of. But all lynches are not built the same. Or I guess we can go ahead and clear you and Zomba for being the first ones on the Snowman lynch.

Nope, I don't like that idea. Zomba might be a detective, but I don't think you are.

I don't think you're a detective either. Straw men would get very little sleuthing done.

I think it's worth noting that most, arguably all, Kiras have built in defenses for surviving lynches in the event that they are ever called out publicly as Kira. Light and Misa can both give up their Death Notes and gain lynch immunity. Higuchi has immunity before possessing a Death Note so he works a little differently, and Mikami can create a fake Death Note to avoid getting caught by Near.

In addition, we do not know the consequences, if any, of L's investigations. It would make sense to me that the closer he gets to discovering Kira, the more likely he is to die. Maybe there are risks on his end.

Just a thought. Epi only uses smilies when speaking to 4 players.

1) TH - but Epi plans on ignoring anyway for being a potential Death God.

2) DH - but Epi doesn't take him seriously.

3) Eloh - his wife.

4) Myself - Why? Where do I fall in your list of reaction posting?

Linki: Oh I see.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:My opinion on L's Elo statement is pretty similar to Epi's. Given MP's stance on info dumping, why would he create a role that can freely into dump with no consequences? I just doubt that this role has a mechanic that allows for gaining information with absolute certainty. However, he obviously believes it to be true with a lot of confidence and it is good reason to give it consideration.

linki @BR and Rico: knowing MP, I doubt he would do that. Very much. He always has these percentage chances and opportunities for misinformation. I would be surprised if he had L able to gain info with absolute certainty.

Here's a thought. Since L does not need Kira Sympathizers dead, maybe he has better "insight" in catching them. Those characters are not as slippery as Light or Misa.

I don't understand what you mean, could you clarify for me?

If you want to lynch TH to test your hypothesis, why not lynch Elo to test other hypotheses concerning L? If she comes out good, we know we can't trust what he says. If she comes out bad, we know that maybe he's come to that conclusion because he's very smart (like he's supposed to be), and what he's doing isn't exactly infodumping which we all ASSUME MP would not let him do

Also, at the risk of looking more suspicious in the eyes of the oh so smart ones, I think that ignoring TH is just rude. Whatever his role is, he's doing what he needs to do to win the game. You want to vote for him, do it. But rolling your eyes and asking people to ignore him is something I don't think should be done. I don't think I would enjoy playing the game if I were in his shoes. Just my two cents

Spacedaisy wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:My opinion on L's Elo statement is pretty similar to Epi's. Given MP's stance on info dumping, why would he create a role that can freely into dump with no consequences? I just doubt that this role has a mechanic that allows for gaining information with absolute certainty. However, he obviously believes it to be true with a lot of confidence and it is good reason to give it consideration.

linki @BR and Rico: knowing MP, I doubt he would do that. Very much. He always has these percentage chances and opportunities for misinformation. I would be surprised if he had L able to gain info with absolute certainty.

Here's a thought. Since L does not need Kira Sympathizers dead, maybe he has better "insight" in catching them. Those characters are not as slippery as Light or Misa.

I don't understand what you mean, could you clarify for me?

Since lynching non-Kira sympathizers does not complete the detectives' primary win condition, maybe L has better success when searching a Sympathizer who is not a Kira.

FZ. wrote:If you want to lynch TH to test your hypothesis, why not lynch Elo to test other hypotheses concerning L? If she comes out good, we know we can't trust what he says. If she comes out bad, we know that maybe he's come to that conclusion because he's very smart (like he's supposed to be), and what he's doing isn't exactly infodumping which we all ASSUME MP would not let him do

Not quite.

If Eloh comes out non-sympathizer, then L is probably just tacking on his opinions after his percentage (only in this case, it was phrased as a fact). That doesn't make L untrustworthy, just wrong (like any gossip). He's still civilian, so his opinion should still be welcome even if he's fallible.

If this was directed at me (it feels like it was), why do you think I want to lynch TH to test a hypothesis?

FZ. wrote:Also, at the risk of looking more suspicious in the eyes of the oh so smart ones, I think that ignoring TH is just rude. Whatever his role is, he's doing what he needs to do to win the game. You want to vote for him, do it. But rolling your eyes and asking people to ignore him is something I don't think should be done. I don't think I would enjoy playing the game if I were in his shoes. Just my two cents

Can't ignoring someone also be "doing what [someone] needs to do to win the game?"

FZ. wrote:Also, at the risk of looking more suspicious in the eyes of the oh so smart ones, I think that ignoring TH is just rude. Whatever his role is, he's doing what he needs to do to win the game. You want to vote for him, do it. But rolling your eyes and asking people to ignore him is something I don't think should be done. I don't think I would enjoy playing the game if I were in his shoes. Just my two cents

I understand Epi's perspective on not quoting me. In his eyes it's possible I have a "Mr. Popular" type role where I gain more power by people quoting me. But I do think ignoring me completely is a bit premature. I am not a baddie nor have I been outed as one. Don't quote me if you'd like, but I'm still playing the game, and until I'm dead I plan to continue playing it.

That said, I'm having a blast playing this game, so fear not FZ

FZ. wrote:If you want to lynch TH to test your hypothesis, why not lynch Elo to test other hypotheses concerning L? If she comes out good, we know we can't trust what he says. If she comes out bad, we know that maybe he's come to that conclusion because he's very smart (like he's supposed to be), and what he's doing isn't exactly infodumping which we all ASSUME MP would not let him do

I think this post makes a lot of sense. I think we could gain valuable information by lynching Eloh. It let's us know how much stock we should put in L's future reports.

I also thought about what you said about TH, and I think you're right. It is rude. SO while I won't quote him or engage with him too much, I will answer his question. Here it is:

FZ. wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote: linki: A lot of these BTSC happen after the Kiras (one of them) gains a death note or starts killing. Since we've only seen one death, I doubt any of these have happened....though I didn't carefully read all of them, just skimmed

We've only seen one death? I guess SVS doesn't count. Poor SVS

NO idea why I said one. But still, I doubt many have gained BTSC at this point.

I'm nt comfortable with those assumptions and that is part of why I suspect FZ.

FZ. wrote:Also, at the risk of looking more suspicious in the eyes of the oh so smart ones, I think that ignoring TH is just rude. Whatever his role is, he's doing what he needs to do to win the game. You want to vote for him, do it. But rolling your eyes and asking people to ignore him is something I don't think should be done. I don't think I would enjoy playing the game if I were in his shoes. Just my two cents

I agree completely.

FZ. wrote:Also, at the risk of looking more suspicious in the eyes of the oh so smart ones, I think that ignoring TH is just rude. Whatever his role is, he's doing what he needs to do to win the game. You want to vote for him, do it. But rolling your eyes and asking people to ignore him is something I don't think should be done. I don't think I would enjoy playing the game if I were in his shoes. Just my two cents

I completely agree and don't plan on ignoring him no matter what others say.

Spacedaisy wrote:

FZ. wrote:Also, at the risk of looking more suspicious in the eyes of the oh so smart ones, I think that ignoring TH is just rude. Whatever his role is, he's doing what he needs to do to win the game. You want to vote for him, do it. But rolling your eyes and asking people to ignore him is something I don't think should be done. I don't think I would enjoy playing the game if I were in his shoes. Just my two cents

I agree completely.

I see both sides. I have no ill feelings towards him as a player and don't want him to think me rude. I think he was acting a little weird in the beginning of the game but now seems to be very helpful like he usually is in Mafia. However, him surviving lynches does concern me.

Eloh, you don't seem to feel any pressure at all right now.

Epignosis wrote:

FZ. wrote:If you want to lynch TH to test your hypothesis, why not lynch Elo to test other hypotheses concerning L? If she comes out good, we know we can't trust what he says. If she comes out bad, we know that maybe he's come to that conclusion because he's very smart (like he's supposed to be), and what he's doing isn't exactly infodumping which we all ASSUME MP would not let him do

Not quite.

If Eloh comes out non-sympathizer, then L is probably just tacking on his opinions after his percentage (only in this case, it was phrased as a fact). That doesn't make L untrustworthy, just wrong (like any gossip). He's still civilian, so his opinion should still be welcome even if he's fallible.

If this was directed at me (it feels like it was), why do you think I want to lynch TH to test a hypothesis?

FZ. wrote:Also, at the risk of looking more suspicious in the eyes of the oh so smart ones, I think that ignoring TH is just rude. Whatever his role is, he's doing what he needs to do to win the game. You want to vote for him, do it. But rolling your eyes and asking people to ignore him is something I don't think should be done. I don't think I would enjoy playing the game if I were in his shoes. Just my two cents

Can't ignoring someone also be "doing what [someone] needs to do to win the game?"

I didn't suggest we think L is untrustworthy in the sense you mean, but that when he says something with such certainty, it's not a sealed deal, and if he's right, we know that we have something we can trust. And at this point in the game, while I know you disagree with me, I think TH has contributed more to the game than Elo has. He's been questioning people, bringing up theories etc'. What has Elo done?

And isn't that what you've been saying? That if we lynch him, we learn who he is?

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:If you want to lynch TH to test your hypothesis, why not lynch Elo to test other hypotheses concerning L? If she comes out good, we know we can't trust what he says. If she comes out bad, we know that maybe he's come to that conclusion because he's very smart (like he's supposed to be), and what he's doing isn't exactly infodumping which we all ASSUME MP would not let him do

I think this post makes a lot of sense. I think we could gain valuable information by lynching Eloh. It let's us know how much stock we should put in L's future reports.

I also thought about what you said about TH, and I think you're right. It is rude. SO while I won't quote him or engage with him too much, I will answer his question. Here it is:

FZ. wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote: linki: A lot of these BTSC happen after the Kiras (one of them) gains a death note or starts killing. Since we've only seen one death, I doubt any of these have happened....though I didn't carefully read all of them, just skimmed

We've only seen one death? I guess SVS doesn't count. Poor SVS

NO idea why I said one. But still, I doubt many have gained BTSC at this point.

I'm nt comfortable with those assumptions and that is part of why I suspect FZ.

How does you not being comfortable with someone's assumptions make them lynch candidates?

FZ. wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

FZ. wrote:If you want to lynch TH to test your hypothesis, why not lynch Elo to test other hypotheses concerning L? If she comes out good, we know we can't trust what he says. If she comes out bad, we know that maybe he's come to that conclusion because he's very smart (like he's supposed to be), and what he's doing isn't exactly infodumping which we all ASSUME MP would not let him do

Not quite.

If Eloh comes out non-sympathizer, then L is probably just tacking on his opinions after his percentage (only in this case, it was phrased as a fact). That doesn't make L untrustworthy, just wrong (like any gossip). He's still civilian, so his opinion should still be welcome even if he's fallible.

If this was directed at me (it feels like it was), why do you think I want to lynch TH to test a hypothesis?

FZ. wrote:Also, at the risk of looking more suspicious in the eyes of the oh so smart ones, I think that ignoring TH is just rude. Whatever his role is, he's doing what he needs to do to win the game. You want to vote for him, do it. But rolling your eyes and asking people to ignore him is something I don't think should be done. I don't think I would enjoy playing the game if I were in his shoes. Just my two cents

Can't ignoring someone also be "doing what [someone] needs to do to win the game?"

I didn't suggest we think L is untrustworthy in the sense you mean, but that when he says something with such certainty, it's not a sealed deal, and if he's right, we know that we have something we can trust. And at this point in the game, while I know you disagree with me, I think TH has contributed more to the game than Elo has. He's been questioning people, bringing up theories etc'. What has Elo done?

And isn't that what you've been saying? That if we lynch him, we learn who he is?

Depends. If TH is Higuchi, we might not learn anything except that TH is unlynchable right now. That's why Epi suggested not lynching him today, but down the road.

I'm voting for Eloh now. Her response reads counter to what I would expect from a detective. Whereas I'd expect a civvie to be impassioned and defiantly defending themselves, Eloh has been quite the opposite. Quiet, indifferent acceptance of an eventuality (her being exposed as a Sympathizer) is what I'm feeling is the case. She's also avoided multiple lines of inquiry which to me is not something I would expect from an innocent person.

I should also note that I theorize Light passed his death note to Higuchi recently, which explains the lack of the last kill.

DharmaHelper wrote:I should also note that I theorize Light passed his death note to Higuchi recently, which explains the lack of the last kill.

That's surprising. What brought you to that conclusion?

FZ. wrote: How does you not being comfortable with someone's assumptions make them lynch candidates?

Because there are reasons for making those assumptions that are inconsistent with the detectives interests.
1. It's possible that a Kira sympathizer without BTSC would comment on how little BTSC there is, based on their inside knowledge.
2. It's possible that a Kira sympathizer with BTSC would want to convince the thread that they do not have it.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:I should also note that I theorize Light passed his death note to Higuchi recently, which explains the lack of the last kill.

That's surprising. What brought you to that conclusion?

I think Light can't kill *and* pass the note. No kill means he could have passed the note.

What if he targeted an unkillable player? His secrets do state that he's allowed to kill anyone he desires, no matter of alignment.

Ricochet wrote:What if he targeted an unkillable player? His secrets do state that he's allowed to kill anyone he desires, no matter of alignment.

He has had no problem in killing his targets thus far,

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:I should also note that I theorize Light passed his death note to Higuchi recently, which explains the lack of the last kill.

That's surprising. What brought you to that conclusion?

What makes you say it's surprising? Do you know something to the contrary?

DharmaHelper wrote:

Ricochet wrote:What if he targeted an unkillable player? His secrets do state that he's allowed to kill anyone he desires, no matter of alignment.

He has had no problem in killing his targets thus far,

The Shinigami say that they specifically can't be killed by humans. He could have targeted one of them.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Eloh, you don't seem to feel any pressure at all right now.

DharmaHelper wrote:I'm voting for Eloh now. Her response reads counter to what I would expect from a detective. Whereas I'd expect a civvie to be impassioned and defiantly defending themselves, Eloh has been quite the opposite. Quiet, indifferent acceptance of an eventuality (her being exposed as a Sympathizer) is what I'm feeling is the case. She's also avoided multiple lines of inquiry which to me is not something I would expect from an innocent person.

I am feeling the pressure but I don't know how to defend myself in this situation. It's not like L said, "I think she is a kira sympathizer b/c of this, this, and this." There is nothing to defend against except to say...."Please trust me guys." Will you all NOT vote for me b/c I simply ask you to trust me over L?

As for being quiet...more like busy. I woke up, worked out, showered, fed my kids and got them all three ready for church, went to church, went grocery shopping, put groceries away, made lunch for he family, cleaned the kitchen, did the dished, bathed all three of my children and just put two pretty Anna of Arendelle braids in Abigail's hair. I did catch up in the thread while each kids played a little in the bath, but I am just now (8 hours after waking) finally sitting down to rest. And....funny enough, as I sat down, my littlest came and asked for some cereal, but I was able to get Epi to help with that. On top of it all, I am not feeling well. It is gloomy, cold, and rainy and my body is feeling the lack of good sleep from last night. BUT...I am here now. What would you like to know...please ask anything. I want to prove myself good. I just don't know how. DH, what would YOU say in this situation? Like I said, I have nothing to defend myself against! There was no CASE built against me.

thellama73 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Ricochet wrote:What if he targeted an unkillable player? His secrets do state that he's allowed to kill anyone he desires, no matter of alignment.

He has had no problem in killing his targets thus far,

The Shinigami say that they specifically can't be killed by humans. He could have targeted one of them.

Possible.

Elo, who do you think could be Kira?

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote: How does you not being comfortable with someone's assumptions make them lynch candidates?

Because there are reasons for making those assumptions that are inconsistent with the detectives interests.
1. It's possible that a Kira sympathizer without BTSC would comment on how little BTSC there is, based on their inside knowledge.
2. It's possible that a Kira sympathizer with BTSC would want to convince the thread that they do not have it.

Surprisingly, it's also possible that a detective, or whatever else there is that is not baddie, would say that it seems there's less BTSC in this game, just because that's what they think, and they're trying to figure out how to approach the game when the baddies may not know about one another. The important thing is, you're never assuming

Elohcin wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Eloh, you don't seem to feel any pressure at all right now.

DharmaHelper wrote:I'm voting for Eloh now. Her response reads counter to what I would expect from a detective. Whereas I'd expect a civvie to be impassioned and defiantly defending themselves, Eloh has been quite the opposite. Quiet, indifferent acceptance of an eventuality (her being exposed as a Sympathizer) is what I'm feeling is the case. She's also avoided multiple lines of inquiry which to me is not something I would expect from an innocent person.

I am feeling the pressure but I don't know how to defend myself in this situation. It's not like L said, "I think she is a kira sympathizer b/c of this, this, and this." There is nothing to defend against except to say...."Please trust me guys." Will you all NOT vote for me b/c I simply ask you to trust me over L?

As for being quiet...more like busy. I woke up, worked out, showered, fed my kids and got them all three ready for church, went to church, went grocery shopping, put groceries away, made lunch for he family, cleaned the kitchen, did the dished, bathed all three of my children and just put two pretty Anna of Arendelle braids in Abigail's hair. I did catch up in the thread while each kids played a little in the bath, but I am just now (8 hours after waking) finally sitting down to rest. And....funny enough, as I sat down, my littlest came and asked for some cereal, but I was able to get Epi to help with that. On top of it all, I am not feeling well. It is gloomy, cold, and rainy and my body is feeling the lack of good sleep from last night. BUT...I am here now. What would you like to know...please ask anything. I want to prove myself good. I just don't know how. DH, what would YOU say in this situation? Like I said, I have nothing to defend myself against! There was no CASE built against me.

What would I say?

I'd call L some unmentionable words and use my past contributions and posts to make the case for my innocence.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Ricochet wrote:What if he targeted an unkillable player? His secrets do state that he's allowed to kill anyone he desires, no matter of alignment.

He has had no problem in killing his targets thus far,

And? My point was he perhaps did target someone on N4, but it proved to be a player that can't be killed, so the kill didn't go through.

My idea of Light giving up possession of the DN, based on his secrets so far, is when he'll feel vulnerable, exposed or about to be lynched i.e. the need to become unlynchable.

linki @ llama & DH: also Near, Higuchi and possibly others

And I'm still waiting for Bea to come in and reply to Boo's accusations and what he does with it.

Ricochet wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Ricochet wrote:What if he targeted an unkillable player? His secrets do state that he's allowed to kill anyone he desires, no matter of alignment.

He has had no problem in killing his targets thus far,

And? My point was he perhaps did target someone on N4, but it proved to be a player that can't be killed, so the kill didn't go through.

My idea of Light giving up possession of the DN, based on his secrets so far, is when he'll feel vulnerable, exposed or about to be lynched i.e. the need to become unlynchable.

linki @ llama & DH: also Near, Higuchi and possibly others

It's certainly another possibility, just not one I think is likely.

FZ. wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote: How does you not being comfortable with someone's assumptions make them lynch candidates?

Because there are reasons for making those assumptions that are inconsistent with the detectives interests.
1. It's possible that a Kira sympathizer without BTSC would comment on how little BTSC there is, based on their inside knowledge.
2. It's possible that a Kira sympathizer with BTSC would want to convince the thread that they do not have it.

Surprisingly, it's also possible that a detective, or whatever else there is that is not baddie, would say that it seems there's less BTSC in this game, just because that's what they think, and they're trying to figure out how to approach the game when the baddies may not know about one another. The important thing is, you're never assuming

Yes, that's possible too. It's why I haven't made up my mind about you yet.

DharmaHelper wrote:I should also note that I theorize Light passed his death note to Higuchi recently, which explains the lack of the last kill.

Why would Light want to do that?

FZ. wrote:And I'm still waiting for Bea to come in and reply to Boo's accusations and what he does with it.

I had forgotten about that. I'd like to see what goes on there as well.

I think FZ may be kira. She is my top suspect. I know I have said I have gone back and forth on her, but her posts this day phase really make be thing she may be kira. So...think for a minute. If you were kira and you got this info in the thread from L about someone being a kira sympathizer.....how would you react? She was ready to go jump right on me and follow L no matter what. BR too, now that I think about it. They both TALKED like they were ready to vote me right away. BUT...did they? No. B/c they are probably secretly thinking something like, "Well..what is she IS a kira sympathizer. I want to act like a detective and talk like I am ready to follow L's suggestions right off, but I will hold off voting for her just in case she really is a sympathizer. I will only vote her once others have decided it is best....better to blend."

So....FZ and Black Rock....I suspect them b/c of their reaction to L's thoughts.

lots of linki I'll read in a sec