The Syndicate

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:40 pm**

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:31 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:30 pm Spf why are u so hung up that michelle having illogical reads = michelle mafia

Have u not seen townies being illogical in your many mafia adventures?

Michelle might still be mafia but i think that her reads are the least reason to scumread her off of
Bc they're specifically illogical in a scummy way and not in a towny way

When Michelle is town her reads and progressions are clear and reasoned

Here they are just omgus and agenda and not well reasoned

"specifically illogical in a scummy way and not in a towny way" is a sentence you need to elaborate more on. until you do, im going to laugh at it and call it confirmation bias on your part (which it is)

I disagree on your other two points too, i havent seen a game from michelle where she doesnt omgus

If she is mafia, her choosing to stick to these reads is a mimic of her town meta

If she is mafia here, in my personal and subjective opinion the "correct" scumread on her would be "michelle is mafia because she got scumread despite mimicing her town game pretty well, aka "caught for the wrong reasons", and that made it easier for her to lean in on the emotional side since she genuinely felt misunderstood by others (even as mafia) so she focused on that and eventually got sick of it and just wanted to get voted off

In that Escape from Russia game Michelle got in beef with Poison post-game due to Poison's scumread on Michelle, even though Poison was Mafia and Michelle was Town. So Michelle feeling slighted due to being misunderstood doesnt tie to her alignment or the alignment of others fyi

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:41 pm**

spf explained it better than me

im too lazy to words better rn

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:41 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:37 pm just clicked Made's sig spoiler to check out some sikk awards and got blasted by flavortown

back in my day the didn't give out participation trophies

(and i wasn't very good, so I won very few games as i never survived regardless of alignment. i had a lot of spirit!!! before the sockky tho so still no awards D: )

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:46 pm**

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:40 pm

If she is mafia here, in my personal and subjective opinion the "correct" scumread on her would be "michelle is mafia because she got scumread despite mimicing her town game pretty well, aka "caught for the wrong reasons",

nah. from my pov it's much more nuanced than that. I found her scummy quite early on because she felt "off" and I may not be able to articulate that type of meta read very well but that doesn't make it any less real -- you may think she is mimicking her town game, but I sense a discrepancy and sense that it is not actually her organic town game and find her scum on a gut level. It's sorta like when I've caught Jay as mafia in the past -- he imitates his town game but it *feels* wrong and I pick up on that.

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:46 pm**

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:34 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:30 pm Spf why are u so hung up that michelle having illogical reads = michelle mafia

Have u not seen townies being illogical in your many mafia adventures?

Michelle might still be mafia but i think that her reads are the least reason to scumread her off of
being illogical is not inherently scummy, but the issue is that michelle is a good and logical player, and the basis of her reads are, without exaggeration: "the three people who voted me are 100% mafia", with no nuance, no reconsideration, and no visible scumhunting. i wouldn't care if michelle's reads were illogical if i felt like she was thinking deeply about the game - but her thought process (in addition the fact that she accused me of lying about being drunk lol...) gives me zero indications that she's playing from a town mindset

that said, four of my biggest townreads and one of my townleans are voting for ellie right now. i've scumread ellie all day (and on d1, to a lesser extent), and i think that she has a high level of scum equity. so, it would be foolish for me to say that people should unvote ellie and vote for michelle instead. i just don't want michelle to get off w/out putting in the level of scumhunting i know that she is more than capable of doing

acknowledging that i read this post, dont have a lot to say except i disagree with michelle = good and logical player

Michelle = good player - i agree
Michelle = logical player - i disagree

She has sick gut reads that are >rand accurate that she has trouble justifying due to her English hence why people rarely listen to her, thats my perception of her

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:48 pm**

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:46 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:40 pm

If she is mafia here, in my personal and subjective opinion the "correct" scumread on her would be "michelle is mafia because she got scumread despite mimicing her town game pretty well, aka "caught for the wrong reasons",
nah. from my pov it's much more nuanced than that. I found her scummy quite early on because she felt "off" and I may not be able to articulate that type of meta read very well but that doesn't make it any less real -- you may think she is mimicking her town game, but I sense a discrepancy and sense that it is not actually her organic town game and find her scum on a gut level. It's sorta like when I've caught Jay as mafia in the past -- he imitates his town game but it *feels* wrong and I pick up on that.

alright. all truth will be revealed in time

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:50 pm**

cool well, im satisfied with an ellie chop today

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:51 pm**

woah woah when did i become the wagon. can yall wait for me to get off work in 2 1/2 hours to kill me at least

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:51 pm**

i need to catch up jesus christ i don't want to die

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:51 pm**

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:51 pm woah woah when did i become the wagon. can yall wait for me to get off work in 2 1/2 hours to kill me at least

I'm content to wait. There's no big rush.

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:51 pm**

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:46 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:34 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:30 pm Spf why are u so hung up that michelle having illogical reads = michelle mafia

Have u not seen townies being illogical in your many mafia adventures?

Michelle might still be mafia but i think that her reads are the least reason to scumread her off of
being illogical is not inherently scummy, but the issue is that michelle is a good and logical player, and the basis of her reads are, without exaggeration: "the three people who voted me are 100% mafia", with no nuance, no reconsideration, and no visible scumhunting. i wouldn't care if michelle's reads were illogical if i felt like she was thinking deeply about the game - but her thought process (in addition the fact that she accused me of lying about being drunk lol...) gives me zero indications that she's playing from a town mindset

that said, four of my biggest townreads and one of my townleans are voting for ellie right now. i've scumread ellie all day (and on d1, to a lesser extent), and i think that she has a high level of scum equity. so, it would be foolish for me to say that people should unvote ellie and vote for michelle instead. i just don't want michelle to get off w/out putting in the level of scumhunting i know that she is more than capable of doing
acknowledging that i read this post, dont have a lot to say except i disagree with michelle = good and logical player

Michelle = good player - i agree
Michelle = logical player - i disagree

She has sick gut reads that are >rand accurate that she has trouble justifying due to her English hence why people rarely listen to her, thats my perception of her

and she is so far off from accurate this game and the justifications she has given are weak and I don't believe she believes them

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:52 pm**

This might be the most active game I have ever played in, at least as counted by average number of posts per player. The player ranked 11th out of 15 has 231 posts on Day 2.

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:52 pm**

no one is going to question made voting for me even though he's been defending me????? wtf

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:52 pm**

@tutuu -

if michelle is town, i think she's probably 0/3

does that concern you at all? you said that she has really accurate gut reads, right?

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:53 pm**

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:52 pm no one is going to question made voting for me even though he's been defending me????? wtf

@Made that is something you should tell us about in vivid detail.

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:53 pm**

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:52 pm no one is going to question made voting for me even though he's been defending me????? wtf

I told him get those dumb wolfy thoughts of nutella/esooa out of ur mind and then he gave really towny soundy thoughts underneath his wolfyness and I was like thumbs up buddy good job here's your town card

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:54 pm**

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:53 pm
EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:52 pm no one is going to question made voting for me even though he's been defending me????? wtf
I told him get those dumb wolfy thoughts of nutella/esooa out of ur mind and then he gave really towny soundy thoughts underneath his wolfyness and I was like thumbs up buddy good job here's your town card

so like that he's cleared after everything else?

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:56 pm**

i swear i work all day to try to prove I'm town, or at least the leasy cummy of the scums but i go to work and suddenly since i can't defend myself im lead wagon

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:58 pm**

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:52 pm @tutuu -

if michelle is town, i think she's probably 0/3

does that concern you at all? you said that she has really accurate gut reads, right?

I agree that I dont find her reads accurate rn, the last game ive seen her play in (hosted by me) she was also inaccurate so im no going to judge her too harshly for not being that accurate, there are very few players i would put to this standard, if at all. Im not that accurate myself so. I was mostly arguing for the sake of argument (as in, i saw her being described in a way that i disagree with, something something ENTP)

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:58 pm**

Wait is Made seriously voting Ellie?

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:59 pm**

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:56 pm i swear i work all day to try to prove I'm town, or at least the leasy cummy of the scums but i go to work and suddenly since i can't defend myself im lead wagon

Don't get fired, come back, say your piece, and I will listen.

Let's please keep our hands off of the hammer, thanks.

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:59 pm**

That's just openwolfing, no?

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Posted: **Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:59 pm**

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:29 pm ellie is scum

nvm im not making you food. you can eat dirt, kid /s

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:00 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:59 pm
EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:56 pm i swear i work all day to try to prove I'm town, or at least the leasy cummy of the scums but i go to work and suddenly since i can't defend myself im lead wagon
Don't get fired, come back, say your piece, and I will listen.

Let's please keep our hands off of the hammer, thanks.

im on my lunch rn, that's not enough time for me to collect my thoughts so instead Emotional Ellie is here

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:01 am**

When did Made vote Ellie?

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:02 am**

"Made self presing against a likely scum"

"You are lock scum Made"

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:03 am**

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:50 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:37 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:36 pm I feel like a switch to ellie from michelle is hekka messy tho
like, if she's mafia dope. if she's not then we basically start day 2 again sub michelle for lc.
counter point: we learn if d1 is t/t or t/w so it's messy, but we don't start from 0

[VOTE: ellie] aubergine

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:03 am**

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:21 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:19 pm Voted ellie shes at 6
what the fuck is this game

How does this post ever come from town if he also had his vote placed on Ellie?

How is the emotion "wtf is this game" real?

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:04 am**

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:03 am
Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:21 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:19 pm Voted ellie shes at 6
what the fuck is this game
How does this post ever come from town if he also had his vote placed on Ellie?

How is the emotion "wtf is this game" real?

Why does mafia Made do this to town Ellie if he is in need of a mislynch?

You seem to be missing some perspective here.

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:06 am**

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:04 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:03 am
Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:21 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:19 pm Voted ellie shes at 6
what the fuck is this game
How does this post ever come from town if he also had his vote placed on Ellie?

How is the emotion "wtf is this game" real?
Why does mafia Made do this to town Ellie if he is in need of a mislynch?

You seem to be missing some perspective here.

Because in order to commit a misyeet you need to place a sufficient amount of votes on a person so that the person dies?

What perspective am I missing, what self-pres are you talking about?

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:06 am**

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:03 am
Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:21 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:19 pm Voted ellie shes at 6
what the fuck is this game
How does this post ever come from town if he also had his vote placed on Ellie?

How is the emotion "wtf is this game" real?

he's been expressing general bafflement of the swinginess of votes, I think it can come from either alignment

but his softening earlier today toward the michelle/ellie suspicions was pretty weird and his willingness to join the wagon here did feel icky/disingenuous

can be self pres but in a more >rand scum way i think.

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:06 am**

As I consider today's three prominent wagons:

Made has been willing to vote Ellie and Michelle
Ellie has been willing vote Made and Michelle
Michelle has not been willing to vote Made or Ellie

I'm not sure what I think of this, but I'll put it here and thonk.

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:06 am**

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:03 am
Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:21 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:19 pm Voted ellie shes at 6
what the fuck is this game
How does this post ever come from town if he also had his vote placed on Ellie?

How is the emotion "wtf is this game" real?

he was surprised at how fluidly wagons moved between people, and said as much. I don't see what the problem with this is? atm I'm actually pretty confident in Made!town

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:07 am**

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:04 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:03 am
Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:21 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:19 pm Voted ellie shes at 6
what the fuck is this game
How does this post ever come from town if he also had his vote placed on Ellie?

How is the emotion "wtf is this game" real?
Why does mafia Made do this to town Ellie if he is in need of a mislynch?

You seem to be missing some perspective here.

what? I must be misreading this bc im confused

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:07 am**

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:04 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:03 am
Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:21 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:19 pm Voted ellie shes at 6
what the fuck is this game
How does this post ever come from town if he also had his vote placed on Ellie?

How is the emotion "wtf is this game" real?
Why does mafia Made do this to town Ellie if he is in need of a mislynch?

You seem to be missing some perspective here.

ok, but made is still voting for me after everyone else did as well. it's not ridiculous for him to act like this game is wild, and that its crazy im town since I was his strongest twon read so that his vote looks les suspicious

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:08 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:06 am As I consider today's three prominent wagons:

Made has been willing to vote Ellie and Michelle
Ellie has been willing vote Made and Michelle
Michelle has not been willing to vote Made or Ellie

I'm not sure what I think of this, but I'll put it here and thonk.

this is like one a them logical brain teaser dealios

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:08 am**

@Made can you please explain what is the emotion that you felt that caused you to write "what the fuck is this game"?

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:09 am**

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:07 am
DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:04 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:03 am
Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:21 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:19 pm Voted ellie shes at 6
what the fuck is this game
How does this post ever come from town if he also had his vote placed on Ellie?

How is the emotion "wtf is this game" real?
Why does mafia Made do this to town Ellie if he is in need of a mislynch?

You seem to be missing some perspective here.
ok, but made is still voting for me after everyone else did as well. it's not ridiculous for him to act like this game is wild, and that its crazy im town since I was his strongest twon read so that his vote looks les suspicious

ok yeah i actually just cant read nothing makes sense anymore im gonna play vidya games gl

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:10 am**

I owned Made with facts and logic and he decided to just become towny, that is what happened

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:10 am**

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:18 pm i have never been in a game with such dynamic vote shifts dear god

@tutuu I assumed it was this sentiment, maybe you missed this post

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:10 am**

@tutuu reads list?

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:11 am**

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:08 am this is like one a them logical brain teaser dealios

Yeah I'm not sure I care. Two of them will do obligatory self-pres, and the other (Michelle) refuses within a framework consistent with the mafia case against her anyway. So eh

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:11 am**

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:08 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:06 am As I consider today's three prominent wagons:

Made has been willing to vote Ellie and Michelle
Ellie has been willing vote Made and Michelle
Michelle has not been willing to vote Made or Ellie

I'm not sure what I think of this, but I'll put it here and thonk.
this is like one a them logical brain teaser dealios

solution easier than the $30 though

Michelle + Made scum, and Michelle looked like dead meat earlier. Made and Michelle act like I'm the third because no one can figure it out and its a free town kill. Made gets to look better for killing Mich and Mich gets to make Made look better by not making Made out to be scum.

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:11 am**

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:10 am
Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:18 pm i have never been in a game with such dynamic vote shifts dear god
@tutuu I assumed it was this sentiment, maybe you missed this post

Alright. I want him to answer himself too.

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:12 am**

ok I'd also like to point out that in my SINGLE scum game i didnt buss my teammates besides having one of them in my scum!lean. So like, this doesnt even make sense for my playstyle if I was

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:13 am**

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:12 am ok I'd also like to point out that in my SINGLE scum game i didnt buss my teammates besides having one of them in my scum!lean. So like, this doesnt even make sense for my playstyle if I was

Who'd you bus here that doesn't make sense?

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:14 am**

I will say if(more like when) I die itll be fun as hell to see reactions to my town flip. Id also get to see who the third scum is which is neat

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:15 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:13 am
EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:12 am ok I'd also like to point out that in my SINGLE scum game i didnt buss my teammates besides having one of them in my scum!lean. So like, this doesnt even make sense for my playstyle if I was
Who'd you bus here that doesn't make sense?

Made and Mich! People were saying we were allied but its not my scum style to aggressively push for my teamates death.

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:15 am**

DkKoba wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:10 am @tutuu reads list?

Tutuu
Tutuu
Tutuu
Tutuu
Tutuu
Alison
Esooa
Nutella
DkKoba
NOOK
DOOM
Jay
superbestfriend
Michelle
Grogu
Ellie
Made

@DkKoba what is your readslist?

Posted: **Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:16 am**

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:15 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:13 am
EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:12 am ok I'd also like to point out that in my SINGLE scum game i didnt buss my teammates besides having one of them in my scum!lean. So like, this doesnt even make sense for my playstyle if I was
Who'd you bus here that doesn't make sense?
Made and Mich! People were saying we were allied but its not my scum style to aggressively push for my teamates death.

Alright just checking.

The Syndicate

Bread Mafia [Game Over]

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