The Syndicate

S~V~S wrote:We all can't play the same game as JJJ and Sloonei, nor should we want to. If we all did things the same it would be boring.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

S~V~S wrote:We all can't play the same game as JJJ and Sloonei, nor should we want to. If we all did things the same it would be boring.

Not only would it be boring, but the thread would be unreadable. Too many posts.

I think a civilian team is at its best when a number of players choose a role (not to be confused with their role card roles) for themselves in the hunt. I wouldn't want to see a bunch of clones all doing the same things -- I want to see players complementing each other with a variety of different approaches and concepts. I think there's a place for the Slooneis of Mafia (obviously given my own methods), and I think there's a place for a ton of other styles too.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Having the viewed the game and the mafia BTSC discussion from a neutral perspective, these are my thoughts on the POE debate:

~ The method itself was not an issue to criticize, as it clearly worked well for the civilians. It has actually been very positive in a number of recent games. *directs smug expression upon the critics*

~ I can understand on some level, however, why it peeved the mafia team. The method itself was fine, but the means by which some of the civilians cleared each other (spousal night kill assumptions, fierce/personal emotional appeals, signature bets, etc) aren't exactly the sort of purely game-relevant indicators that a hypothetically neutral Mafia platform would be built upon -- it'd work based upon the content of posts relative solely to the game at hand and nothing but the game at hand. The problem with this is self-evident: it's a fantasy world. I have never seen a Mafia community anywhere, in person or on a message board, that fits within that idealistic frame. Instead, we all play with people we know, and the effects of that are going to be seen in games. That's just how it is, and I don't think that's something to frown upon. We play as friends, and sometimes that opens doors to unique angles for making reads.

~ There are two obvious negatives that I can identify though for civilians operating this way (crediting and identifying one another based upon unique and marginally relevant appeals or tells):
~~~ 1.) Eventually, someone is going to take advantage of this mindset as a non-civilian and make a number of people look silly.
~~~ 2.) When civilians come to rely too much upon these sorts of tells to progress their POE perspectives, they make a significant sacrifice to their own ability to play the game as anything but civilians. If a player struggles to attain civilian trust without special appeals or tells of this nature, it exposes them when they don't have the proper framework in their roles or mindsets (i.e. when they're mafia-aligned) to meet that criteria. They becomes victims of their own game -- isolated by the POE of other civilians who don't see the tells they're looking for. The only way around this, other than revamping the civilian approach, is to make concessions as a baddie which might not feel morally permissible (and in my opinion, fierce emotional appeals as a baddie are sometimes outright unsportsmanlike). A player is left deciding whether to compromise their values or to compromise their chances to win the game.

bea wrote:I've come to try to play as close to the same regardless of alignment. That's my goal. When I play there is only bea. Not bad bea or civ bea. I think newt and lc are exceptionally good at that sort of play where you want to trust them. You hope you can. But you are never quite 100 percent sure.

I know I have a long way to go. But you know, reducing the tells ect. But that is the goal.

Marmot wrote:

bea wrote:I've come to try to play as close to the same regardless of alignment. That's my goal. When I play there is only bea. Not bad bea or civ bea. I think newt and lc are exceptionally good at that sort of play where you want to trust them. You hope you can. But you are never quite 100 percent sure.

I know I have a long way to go. But you know, reducing the tells ect. But that is the goal.

If I didn't have a role that I could easily hint at and that wasn't obviously civilian, I probably would have been lynched this game. I don't know if I have the meta attachments that some players do. I was just fortunate to have that as a backup plan.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The only way around this, other than revamping the civilian approach, is to make concessions as a baddie which might not feel morally permissible (and in my opinion, fierce emotional appeals as a baddie are sometimes outright unsportsmanlike). A player is left deciding whether to compromise their values or to compromise their chances to win the game.

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

S~V~S wrote:We all can't play the same game as JJJ and Sloonei, nor should we want to. If we all did things the same it would be boring.

Not only would it be boring, but the thread would be unreadable. Too many posts.

I think a civilian team is at its best when a number of players choose a role (not to be confused with their role card roles) for themselves in the hunt. I wouldn't want to see a bunch of clones all doing the same things -- I want to see players complementing each other with a variety of different approaches and concepts. I think there's a place for the Slooneis of Mafia (obviously given my own methods), and I think there's a place for a ton of other styles too.

I've noticed I emulate you more when you're not in the game. I've come to rely on a lot of the content you generate, but I don't usually need to be the one who generates it.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:51 pm In voting for this year's Sockys I found that I couldn't remember a lot of the details of this game. I remember being on the Prisoner sockpuppet account and I remember the Beach/Hatch threads, but I don't recall very many specific events of the game or even the final outcome.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:17 pm Thankfully, JaggedJimmyJay was also able to provide links to the role list and his host spreadsheet, so at least that information has been retained, as follows:

Spoiler: show

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Role list

Actions spreadsheet (includes players and role names)