The Syndicate

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:17 am There's a time and place for mech talk.

However I don't want to be starting with it because it's easy for scum to hide behind.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:02 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:10 am

Dolby wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:28 pm Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:40 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:09 am Mhf mphreh mhrphd

This is like your GIF gimmick, tho less comprehensible

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:48 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:02 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:10 am

Dolby wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:28 pm Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:16 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:48 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:02 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:10 am

Dolby wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:28 pm Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

Still strikes me as an odd topic of discussion at this stage, but I'm not the conversation police, so you do you I s'pose.



Your explanation does not remove you from my sus pile BTW

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:21 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:16 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:48 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:02 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:10 am

Dolby wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:28 pm Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

Still strikes me as an odd topic of discussion at this stage, but I'm not the conversation police, so you do you I s'pose.



Your explanation does not remove you from my sus pile BTW

I mean, when else should you talk about a game-long gameplan other than the beginning of the game?

And that's fine, sus me all you want.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:25 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:21 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:16 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:48 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:02 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:10 am

Dolby wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:28 pm Also don't see why a claim swap would happen?

If one goes down the other would go down

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

Still strikes me as an odd topic of discussion at this stage, but I'm not the conversation police, so you do you I s'pose.



Your explanation does not remove you from my sus pile BTW

I mean, when else should you talk about a game-long gameplan other than the beginning of the game?

And that's fine, sus me all you want.

There are so many variables, that I feel game long planning this early in a game this size is a bit like shoveling snow in a blizzard

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:32 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:25 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:21 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:16 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:48 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:02 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:10 am

Claimswaps can happen late game when the remaining mafia members hope to win with both people involved alive.

Granted, I do concede that it is probably not super likely to happen.

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

Still strikes me as an odd topic of discussion at this stage, but I'm not the conversation police, so you do you I s'pose.



Your explanation does not remove you from my sus pile BTW

I mean, when else should you talk about a game-long gameplan other than the beginning of the game?

And that's fine, sus me all you want.

There are so many variables, that I feel game long planning this early in a game this size is a bit like shoveling snow in a blizzard

I mean not really game related, but I'm kinda guessing from this comment you don't live in the north? Shoveling snow during a blizzard is actually a good idea as long as it isn't dangerous outside. It is a lot easier to shovel 6 inches of snow 4 times than it is to shovel 2 feet of snow once, so shoveling during a blizzard can be super helpful.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:41 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:32 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:25 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:21 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:16 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:48 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:02 am

What's not super likely? That Maf use claim swaps late game, or that Maf have multiple members alive late game?


Sean is in my sus pile

Well hopefully both, but I was talking specifically about how it is probably not likely that a situation where it might make sense for mafia to claimswap happens.

Still strikes me as an odd topic of discussion at this stage, but I'm not the conversation police, so you do you I s'pose.



Your explanation does not remove you from my sus pile BTW

I mean, when else should you talk about a game-long gameplan other than the beginning of the game?

And that's fine, sus me all you want.

There are so many variables, that I feel game long planning this early in a game this size is a bit like shoveling snow in a blizzard

I mean not really game related, but I'm kinda guessing from this comment you don't live in the north? Shoveling snow during a blizzard is actually a good idea as long as it isn't dangerous outside. It is a lot easier to shovel 6 inches of snow 4 times than it is to shovel 2 feet of snow once, so shoveling during a blizzard can be super helpful.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if there are many on Syndicate is as North as I am. It's -25C outside right now

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:22 pm So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:46 am I think it’s best if mafia role claim, but town doesn’t.

sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:33 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:22 pm So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.

why?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:52 pm So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:33 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:46 am I think it’s best if mafia role claim, but town doesn’t.

this right here is peak town. solid green, ride and die, will sheep for first ten days.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:52 pm So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:22 pm So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:31 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:52 pm So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:47 pm

sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:33 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:22 pm So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.

why?

Linearpoint's first post is the sort of first post that I like to make as scum (I always find the first post the hardest, after getting the first post out of the way, it is much easier to continue. Sometimes I even specifically try to "first" specifically to get the first post out of the way), and while this is not scum-indicative necessarily, it is scum-compatible. Then as others have mentioned, sometimes scum likes to mech-talk to hide, and their posts in regards to my team-claim suggestion feel the most likely to be coming from scum trying to look helpful in a mech discussion.

As for Mac, he called me mafia, so he must be mafia.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:24 pm [VOTE: sig] aubergine

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:39 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:31 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:52 pm So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:39 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:31 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:52 pm So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:01 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:24 pm [VOTE: sig] aubergine

pssst its D0 we can't vote yet.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:39 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:31 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:52 pm So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:03 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:39 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:31 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:52 pm So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

Is this a 3P slip? Since aren't the colors red and blue, I"d assume any sneaky 3p would a third color.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:02 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:39 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:31 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:52 pm So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

Derp clear denied

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:10 pm Where is the set up? I thought i could find it in the OP.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:12 pm Sig is hardcore obvious scum and im tunneling to their slow and painful death.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:47 pm

sig wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:33 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:22 pm So looking back, I think Linearpoint and Mac are >rand!mafia, but that second one might be mildly fueled by OMGUS.

why?

Linearpoint's first post is the sort of first post that I like to make as scum (I always find the first post the hardest, after getting the first post out of the way, it is much easier to continue. Sometimes I even specifically try to "first" specifically to get the first post out of the way), and while this is not scum-indicative necessarily, it is scum-compatible. Then as others have mentioned, sometimes scum likes to mech-talk to hide, and their posts in regards to my team-claim suggestion feel the most likely to be coming from scum trying to look helpful in a mech discussion.

As for Mac, he called me mafia, so he must be mafia.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:44 am

Dolby wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:51 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:11 am

Dolby wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:45 pm Yeah I personally don't see a benefit to a mass claim

Tells mafia who we all are and since they know what they can do it gives them more of an advantage I think, given they know what they as a faction can do and we don't. Mafia aren't going to claimswap anyway I don't think, except near the end. And honestly if we stop on yeeting "x" in f5 after they're tracked to "y" who died because they claim medic and no one CCs that's kinda on us?

I agree in regards to a total claim. I am more curious about the merits of a color claim. So no roles, just red team or blue team.

eh, I'm pretty sleep deprived rn and might go back on this

but

see what I just said with regards to fullclaim

Let's as a thought exercise say that all mafia are red, bam they know that 5 town contain 5 specific roles, and can probably make reads for roles within there. The information gained by town is less than that by mafia, and honestly, same for a 2/2 split.

and for what? to prevent them from claimswapping later? Don't think it would be that effective. The motivation for a claimswap is going to be some mechanical info being outted which makes the mafia look bad probably, and it's going to be bad on us for not catching it if we don't.

tl;dr, mafia gain more info and I don't think stopping a late game claimswap is very +EV for town

Well, stopping a late game claimswap is definitely +EV for town, but yeah I think I am starting to agree that it isn't enough +EV to counter the -EV of info given to scum.

There was another game with a similarish setup (well... only kinda, town was split into two teams) where I thought claiming teams was a horrible idea until I ran the numbers and realized that claiming teams could guarantee a scum chop without fail on either D1 or D2, and was actually almost the only viable strategy to give town a fighting chance (It was a 12p game with 4 wolves, so like... kill a wolf in two days or lose) This setup doesn't seem to have as much benefit to team claiming though.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:14 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:02 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:39 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:31 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:14 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:52 pm So I briefly considered if it might be good for us to massclaim our colors D1.

Benefits: reduces scums ability to do claimswaps, and also reduces the ability for scum to vague claim (i.e. if they are vaguely hinting at something that sounds a whole lot like your ability, and they're the same color as you, that's clearly sus).

Drawbacks: Could lead to scum being able to guess certain townies roles easier once the game goes on and a few people from own of the colors has flipped.

I didn't actually come to a conclusion on if I think we should or not though, so uhh... thoughts?

No, Im sure with all roles being known there gotta be some sort of anti-claim mechanic so hard pass.

It's an open setup, so there is no hidden anti-claim mechanic.

Either way though, I've come around to thinking it is not a good idea to claim colors.

Why not? Im green, how about you?

Derp clear denied

Fair, i could easily fake it as scum.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:33 pm 16, 4, 18, 1, 13, 9, 7



That is my RNG POE


So Seanzie, falcon, TSP, Dolby, Nook, LP, & Jack...let's start flipping these goons

Dolby wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:59 pm It cool if I talk about what abilities I think certain roles should use tonight or nah