The Syndicate

Scotty wrote:I'm voting Wilgy. Don't know who hasn't checked in yet, if anyone. Nor can I currently find the vote totals.

Vote Wilgy

Not gonna vote Wigly but can some explain a good reason for a town aligned player to self vote?

Polls are usually kept in a separate thread Silver Lantern. That may not be the case here, so you could ask Spirityo if you're allowed to screenshot them. You said mafia don't have much reason to vote together here though, which is true but altogether an unhelpful statement that could only serve to potentially make others disassociate those voting together in the polls as being teammates. Scum on a fairly regular basis will try to seem like they're contributing by posting info that makes them look like they're being useful when in reality it's just filler disguised as activity. That is why I am questioning a lack of a real point to your statement.

Response to Dyslexicon:

1. I flagged you but didn't vote for the same reason Jay did: to wait for your response. I did mention this, but kind of in the second degree because I was advising someone not to pile votes on you until you responded.

2. Unless the marmot has actual reason to suspect me, I wouldn't read into his vote for me too deeply. He and I have history: in the Talking Heads game I tunneled him hard out of desperation and game-fatigue. He owes me many, many lynch votes. That is, unless he has actual reasons to vote for me pertaining to this game.

3. Mentioning my paranoia was a fluff post, and not at all sincere. I haven't played Mafia in...like, a year? More? That was just me saying it was good to be back.

4. Brusquely saying, 'No,' to my posts without explanation felt almost like you were trying to alienate me or something, because I've played only one game here before. I was taking it personally, I'm disregarding it now, never mind.

5. Most importantly: your response to the 'slip'. Your initial responses read as aloof, as if to laughingly blame us for misreading an obvious and dumb mistake. You insisted that you weren't dumb enough to make such a mistake--something backed up by Jay, who said that not even most beginners would slip such information.

But as Jay also said, even vets mistakes. Egregious ones. I've done it. Jay's done it. Most vets I've played with have done it. I think that the true mistake is not so much in your original slip but the manner in which you responded to it. First aloofness, and then explaining yourself.

Also, citing other games and saying, 'But look at my meta! See? I've done this before!' is a classic scum move.

Vote Dyslexicon

Strawhenge wrote:Response to Dyslexicon:
5. Most importantly: your response to the 'slip'. Your initial responses read as aloof, as if to laughingly blame us for misreading an obvious and dumb mistake. You insisted that you weren't dumb enough to make such a mistake--something backed up by Jay, who said that not even most beginners would slip such information.

But as Jay also said, even vets mistakes. Egregious ones. I've done it. Jay's done it. Most vets I've played with have done it. I think that the true mistake is not so much in your original slip but the manner in which you responded to it. First aloofness, and then explaining yourself.

Also, citing other games and saying, 'But look at my meta! See? I've done this before!' is a classic scum move.

Don't know that I've often seen a post that gives me as many mixed feels as this one.

On the one hand, I found the false aloofness to be aggravating (though I don't blame him taking a while to get a hard-to-find link, he's busy and the game that held it was huge).
On the other hand, saying "No, you really did screw up that badly" and then blaming him for copying play from previous games (EXACTLY THE SAME PLAY AND STATEMENT) completely contradict each other. It's like:
"No, that was a slip"
then
"It's scummy to purposefully copy previous games where you were town"

WHICH IS IT? I disagree with both.
And don't tell me that he made a mistake/slip and then HAPPENED to have an example of exactly the same thing down to the number.

(Note: When I get on a rant, I might sound agro and stuff. That's just me being a disrespectful old codger. Love ya, Strawhenge. Now die.)

Strawhenge wrote:Response to Dyslexicon:

1. I flagged you but didn't vote for the same reason Jay did: to wait for your response. I did mention this, but kind of in the second degree because I was advising someone not to pile votes on you until you responded.

2. Unless the marmot has actual reason to suspect me, I wouldn't read into his vote for me too deeply. He and I have history: in the Talking Heads game I tunneled him hard out of desperation and game-fatigue. He owes me many, many lynch votes. That is, unless he has actual reasons to vote for me pertaining to this game.

3. Mentioning my paranoia was a fluff post, and not at all sincere. I haven't played Mafia in...like, a year? More? That was just me saying it was good to be back.

4. Brusquely saying, 'No,' to my posts without explanation felt almost like you were trying to alienate me or something, because I've played only one game here before. I was taking it personally, I'm disregarding it now, never mind.

5. Most importantly: your response to the 'slip'. Your initial responses read as aloof, as if to laughingly blame us for misreading an obvious and dumb mistake. You insisted that you weren't dumb enough to make such a mistake--something backed up by Jay, who said that not even most beginners would slip such information.

But as Jay also said, even vets mistakes. Egregious ones. I've done it. Jay's done it. Most vets I've played with have done it. I think that the true mistake is not so much in your original slip but the manner in which you responded to it. First aloofness, and then explaining yourself.

Also, citing other games and saying, 'But look at my meta! See? I've done this before!' is a classic scum move.

Vote Dyslexicon

Did you read the link Dys posted where he made this exact "slip" not 2 weeks ago?

Strawhenge, I'll reduce this to a simple question:

Do you think it was a slip?

speedchuck wrote:

Golden wrote:This is what a real slip looks like.

I disagree. I also don't like this post, which condemns Dizzy and then does nothing about it.

VOTE GOLDEN.

This deserves a sirengif

Even without you catching up, this is plainly misrepresentative. You clipped half of my post - the half that said 'if the original post doesn't say the number of mafia'. And what I did was go back and read the original post for myself.

Unless by 'does nothing about it' you mean I didn't vote, in which case - get used to it. I'm not a prolific voter. When I host I generally make votes unchangeable. I find changeable votes do nothing that basic case making doesn't do (in fact, I think they put on less pressure than questions and cases in the thread).

Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

I think the value of changeable votes is in late-phase maneuvering, not in pressure. Townies lose a lot of their ability to cooperate if they're stuck with just one vote all day. That's just Mafia theory though, don't mind me.

Golden wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Golden wrote:This is what a real slip looks like.

Even without you catching up, this is plainly misrepresentative. You clipped half of my post - the half that said 'if the original post doesn't say the number of mafia'. And what I did was go back and read the original post for myself.

Unless by 'does nothing about it' you mean I didn't vote, in which case - get used to it. I'm not a prolific voter. When I host I generally make votes unchangeable. I find changeable votes do nothing that basic case making doesn't do (in fact, I think they put on less pressure than questions and cases in the thread).

As for your first point, I blatantly disagree that his post (which yes, I edited out for brevity) looks like a slip. It looked, as I said in a previous post, about as much like a scumslip as me mentioning my "mafia buddies" or whatever in my first post.

And yeah, that's different here. Generally, where I come from, votes are thrown about willy-nilly. I feel like it's a pretty good way of pinging somebody in bolded text, getting yourself on their radar, announcing suspicion, and calling other's attention to it. The idea of being unable to change votes sounds like hell.
But hey, things are different here (or at least with you guys.) Gotcha. I get your point.

Also, people are much more forgiving of the "let's lynch lurkers D1" cry here. Apparently, most people saw one slip in Dizzy's post, where I saw three.
It must not be as obvious to those people.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think the value of changeable votes is in late-phase maneuvering, not in pressure. Townies lose a lot of their ability to cooperate if they're stuck with just one vote all day. That's just Mafia theory though, don't mind me.

You should vote Wilgy with me

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think the value of changeable votes is in late-phase maneuvering, not in pressure. Townies lose a lot of their ability to cooperate if they're stuck with just one vote all day. That's just Mafia theory though, don't mind me.

You should vote Wilgy with me

Okay.

Unvote

Vote DrWilgy

Now tell me why we're doing this.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think the value of changeable votes is in late-phase maneuvering, not in pressure. Townies lose a lot of their ability to cooperate if they're stuck with just one vote all day. That's just Mafia theory though, don't mind me.

"Do we have enough support to lynch this guy, or are too many people undecided or AFK?"
"Dunno, nobody's voted yet. Do you say we go for it?"
"If compelling counterevidence comes up, we'll be stuck with useless votes the rest of the day while mafia laughs at us. Let's hold off till the last minute and barely scrape by maybe."

I doubt the permavote games are that bad, but I like showing where my lynch support is. Good point.

Sorry, probably irrelevant.
I will continue taking full advantage of the vote moving as long as I live, though.

Also noted: I am curious about the KillWilgy party.

Can I change my vote on the poll?

speedchuck wrote:Can I change my vote on the poll?

Yes, it's changeable.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Strawhenge, I'll reduce this to a simple question:

Do you think it was a slip?

Yes.

Golden wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Golden wrote:This is what a real slip looks like.

I disagree. I also don't like this post, which condemns Dizzy and then does nothing about it.

VOTE GOLDEN.

This deserves a sirengif

Even without you catching up, this is plainly misrepresentative. You clipped half of my post - the half that said 'if the original post doesn't say the number of mafia'. And what I did was go back and read the original post for myself.

I don't see what relevance the clipped information had to speedchuck's accusation. Why do you feel he should have included it?

Strawhenge wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Strawhenge, I'll reduce this to a simple question:

Do you think it was a slip?

Yes.

As in, he didn't intend to reveal the number of scum players but did by accident?

Just to be clear.

Soneji wrote:Polls are usually kept in a separate thread Silver Lantern. That may not be the case here, so you could ask Spirityo if you're allowed to screenshot them. You said mafia don't have much reason to vote together here though, which is true but altogether an unhelpful statement that could only serve to potentially make others disassociate those voting together in the polls as being teammates. Scum on a fairly regular basis will try to seem like they're contributing by posting info that makes them look like they're being useful when in reality it's just filler disguised as activity. That is why I am questioning a lack of a real point to your statement.

Had I made only the first statement, sure, your "it's just filler statement" analysis would probably make sense.

But you're completely glossing over the fact that I placed that sentence in context in the very next sentence a sentence you also quoted along with the the sentence you're questioning. In fact, I find you're analysis quoted above to be the real "filler disguised as activity" or "mafia trying to seem helpful" way more than my original statement.

Soneji wrote:Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

What a great alibi for a scummer, huh?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Strawhenge, I'll reduce this to a simple question:

Do you think it was a slip?

Yes.

As in, he didn't intend to reveal the number of scum players but did by accident?

Just to be clear.

Yes.

Strawhenge wrote:Yes.

My old friend, my ancient pre-Celtic monument with a twist, I am befuddled. I struggle to understand how you can have this perspective with present information available. So this is to say, with further logical progression:

You believe that Dyslexicon made a mistake, and just happened to have a reference available a prior game with a very similar post in which there was no mistake? As in, the existence of that prior example was good fortune rather than an indicator of personality or play style?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:And for my next trick, I will ignore Fred's last post.

Currently reading Silver, Jtrips as slight town, Scotty and Sorsha as slight scum. Might change those reads when I get further. Like Silver's growling at Quin. Dislike Scotty's fake read and redirect thereof. Dislike Sorsha's two almost random map nominees and defense thereof. Like Jimmy pointing it out.

Wilgy and Marmot are being amusing. Null read so far.

Caught up to this point. Still feel this way about all these players.

Feeling positive towards Fred but that may just be because I want him to play more better (i.e. more scumhunting, less waiting around for night results) and I know he's capable of playing more better cause he's a bright fellow (falling into the middle of the "clutch realmser" tier who can solve games once all the clues are out but rarely gets out there and creates the clues during the day) and I see him trying to play more better.

But does that make him a townie? "Probably" says other people. "We'll see" says me. Same for Silver but with the added fearless townie bonus.

I don't like Nachos's "okay, I've found scum" and "these folks are obviously town" posts. Like, bro, you had me fooled last game but I don't get the impression you're THAT good, know what I mean? Has Sorsha/Sonjei's problem of me only ever playing with scum Nacho (and 10 years ago over the top bulldog townie Nacho) so I can't answer "but would he do this anyway as a townie?"

Loving everything from JJJ and Nutella


Half rainbow:
GREEN
Jack
JTrips
Nut
Silver
No avatar guy. Speedchuck?
LIGHT GREEN
Quin
Fred
Golden
YELLOW
Marmot
LC
Sig
ORANGE
Sorsha
Nacho
Sonjei
That guy who looks like Scotty but isn't Scotty. Who was like "I lied about my town read"
RED
Dizzy

Silver Lantern wrote:

Soneji wrote:Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

What a great alibi for a scummer, huh?

Do you believe the intent behind the maneuver was to be able to refer to that alibi?

I should probably start asking questions.

Silver/Quin/Fred/LC, gtth read someone in my light green to orange area, would you?

I need more evaluation from the players I've played with the most so I can evaluate your evaluations.

Jack: I'm not that good, but the reason why I'm considered as aggressive as I am is because I often use strongly worded rhetoric to make points that I feel strongly about/want people to zero in on for some reason. I'm confused why you think it's a scumtell for me when I mislynched you in such spectacular fashion last time you saw me as town and it certainly wasn't a big part of my game when I was scum unless I'm missing something completely.

@Jay: I believe he made a mistake here, yes.

And the game he said it in had information in the OP of how many scum there were. So, what I think happened is that Dyslexicon slipped, remembered a very recent time that he made that claim, and pointed to it as meta.

Strawhenge wrote:And the game he said it in had information in the OP of how many scum there were.

*runs off to investigate*

Silver Lantern wrote:

Soneji wrote:Not only does Dys link show him making the exact same play but it happened just last month. There might be room to be skeptical if he had to dig up something from years ago but as is there is nothing to contest.

What a great alibi for a scummer, huh?

I do think it is alignment neutral. I am not giving him civ cred for it, but i do think that it was conclusively intentional.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:And the game he said it in had information in the OP of how many scum there were.

*runs off to investigate*

I could not find any indication. I read the OP, then searched for '5' and 'five'.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:And the game he said it in had information in the OP of how many scum there were.

*runs off to investigate*

Strawhenge I don't see it, please help.

Golden wrote: I do think it is alignment neutral. I am not giving him civ cred for it, but i do think that it was conclusively intentional.

This is about where I am as well.

Nachomamma8 wrote:Jack: I'm not that good, but the reason why I'm considered as aggressive as I am is because I often use strongly worded rhetoric to make points that I feel strongly about/want people to zero in on for some reason. I'm confused why you think it's a scumtell for me when I mislynched you in such spectacular fashion last time you saw me as town and it certainly wasn't a big part of my game when I was scum unless I'm missing something completely.

Being forward and aggressive isn't scummy.

Acting like your job is done, patting yourself on the back and then coasting is. Not sure if you've actually coasted but hey, appropriate response to appropriate level of scumminess in my eyes. Minor. But more than most players at this point.

You never declared your work done when you got me lynched way back when.

Long Con wrote:What does this mean, to "fail a quickhammer"?

There were 5 scum alive, and 11 players alive. Majority means that the second a player reaches majority vote, the lynch is locked and the thread goes to night, meaning that if a townie misvotes, scum can pile on and win the game. My partner and I were messing around in the scum QT late at night, both counted wrong, and voted at the exact same time and the same way we quickhammered in a recent game where we were scum together, and didn't realize our mistake until another scum partner pointed out that we put him at L-1.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think the value of changeable votes is in late-phase maneuvering, not in pressure. Townies lose a lot of their ability to cooperate if they're stuck with just one vote all day. That's just Mafia theory though, don't mind me.

You should vote Wilgy with me

Okay.

Unvote

Vote DrWilgy

Now tell me why we're doing this.

Tell me that any of Wilgy's 6 posts have a desire to do anything to sell Wilgy as civ?
Anytime he invites WIFOM in early, and not talk about anything else in particular, I'm very wary.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:And the game he said it in had information in the OP of how many scum there were.

*runs off to investigate*

Strawhenge I don't see it, please help.

Discrepancy between number of player pairs and role powers. It's 6, and I tried to find where there might have been a scum caught, but that website is awful to navigate and I hate it and it's bad.

It's not concrete, but there's some information. Unless I'm massively misunderstanding it.

Bottom line is, Dizzy had some reason to make a claim in that game. Not as much here.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:And for my next trick, I will ignore Fred's last post.

Currently reading Silver, Jtrips as slight town, Scotty and Sorsha as slight scum. Might change those reads when I get further. Like Silver's growling at Quin. Dislike Scotty's fake read and redirect thereof. Dislike Sorsha's two almost random map nominees and defense thereof. Like Jimmy pointing it out.

Wilgy and Marmot are being amusing. Null read so far.

Caught up to this point. Still feel this way about all these players.

Feeling positive towards Fred but that may just be because I want him to play more better (i.e. more scumhunting, less waiting around for night results) and I know he's capable of playing more better cause he's a bright fellow (falling into the middle of the "clutch realmser" tier who can solve games once all the clues are out but rarely gets out there and creates the clues during the day) and I see him trying to play more better.

But does that make him a townie? "Probably" says other people. "We'll see" says me. Same for Silver but with the added fearless townie bonus.

I don't like Nachos's "okay, I've found scum" and "these folks are obviously town" posts. Like, bro, you had me fooled last game but I don't get the impression you're THAT good, know what I mean? Has Sorsha/Sonjei's problem of me only ever playing with scum Nacho (and 10 years ago over the top bulldog townie Nacho) so I can't answer "but would he do this anyway as a townie?"

Loving everything from JJJ and Nutella


Half rainbow:
GREEN
Jack
JTrips
Nut
Silver
No avatar guy. Speedchuck?
LIGHT GREEN
Quin
Fred
Golden
YELLOW
Marmot
LC
Sig
ORANGE
Sorsha
Nacho
Sonjei
That guy who looks like Scotty but isn't Scotty. Who was like "I lied about my town read"
RED
Dizzy

I have no idea where I am in that rainbow.

Probably because I'm munching on all the lucky charms at the end of it

anyway, is 5 an appropriate number anyway for 21 people in a cluster fuck game?

For reference to those unaware: this is only the second hammer game ever played on The Syndicate. A lot of the regulars are unfamiliar with the lingo. I played a handful on RYM, but this is my first one in a while too. I think given the mixture of representation here there's some general confusion about who is from where and how well we all know one another. Sorting it out:

Syndicate regulars: insertnamehere, sig, Marmot, Quin, Long Con, DrWilgy, Golden, Sorsha, nutella, Scotty, Elohcin, DFaraday
RYM players: Strawhenge, JJJ (I am also a Syndicate regular)
Naruto Forums: Soneji (also a Syndicate regular)
HCRealms: JOH, Silver Lantern, Fredwood
From sprityo's home site: speedchuck
From MU and elsewhere: Nacho
From personality cafe and elsewhere: Dyslexicon

Might be wrong about someone or somethree.

Strawhenge wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:And the game he said it in had information in the OP of how many scum there were.

*runs off to investigate*

Strawhenge I don't see it, please help.

Discrepancy between number of player pairs and role powers. It's 6, and I tried to find where there might have been a scum caught, but that website is awful to navigate and I hate it and it's bad.

It's not concrete, but there's some information. Unless I'm massively misunderstanding it.

And so it just happens that he was right that game, based on dubious info.
It just happens that the other game has the same number of scum that he suggested this game.
It just happens that he slips with the exact same thing he said just a month ago, for similar reason.
It just happens that he remembered the other post, even though this one was an accident (which would leave the two posts with no correlation in his mind. Do you remember every post in this topic that you've made? That other game was longer.)

I don't believe in the power of coincidence quite that much. Though 5 is probably a good number of scum (for one team, anyway) in this game. Probably.

Scotty wrote:Tell me that any of Wilgy's 6 posts have a desire to do anything to sell Wilgy as civ?
Anytime he invites WIFOM in early, and not talk about anything else in particular, I'm very wary.

I don't necessarily disagree. Wilgy tends to play in his own little world, but that still amounts to generating reads and interactive links of some kind. However, in a recent game (Felt 2?) I believe he was caught for "player salad" in one of his posts which would contrast this effort so far.

I have no reason to town read him.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:Jack: I'm not that good, but the reason why I'm considered as aggressive as I am is because I often use strongly worded rhetoric to make points that I feel strongly about/want people to zero in on for some reason. I'm confused why you think it's a scumtell for me when I mislynched you in such spectacular fashion last time you saw me as town and it certainly wasn't a big part of my game when I was scum unless I'm missing something completely.

Being forward and aggressive isn't scummy.

Acting like your job is done, patting yourself on the back and then coasting is. Not sure if you've actually coasted but hey, appropriate response to appropriate level of scumminess in my eyes. Minor. But more than most players at this point.

You never declared your work done when you got me lynched way back when.

Oh, that makes more sense.

Finding a silver platter slip is different from pushing through a strong scumread, the "my work is done, I'm voting scum" wasn't implying that I caught Dizzy or anything to that effect; I was merely noting that it was less urgent for me to catch up that second and was considering sleeping, but ended up catching up anyways.

Dyslexicon wrote:Also, I'm not a dumb player. I don't obv-slip like that if scum. It would be me pretending to be town that fake slipped to emulate my town game.

Would expect more from Golden. "A great catch", really? Glaringly ovbious and classic I'd say.

Anyways, people are biting. Rawr.

When does day end?

Too smart to slip, I see.

Which players here are dumb enough to actually slip, for future reference?

speedchuck wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:And the game he said it in had information in the OP of how many scum there were.

*runs off to investigate*

Strawhenge I don't see it, please help.

Discrepancy between number of player pairs and role powers. It's 6, and I tried to find where there might have been a scum caught, but that website is awful to navigate and I hate it and it's bad.

It's not concrete, but there's some information. Unless I'm massively misunderstanding it.

And so it just happens that he was right that game, based on dubious info.
It just happens that the other game has the same number of scum that he suggested this game.
It just happens that he slips with the exact same thing he said just a month ago, for similar reason.
It just happens that he remembered the other post, even though this one was an accident (which would leave the two posts with no correlation in his mind. Do you remember every post in this topic that you've made? That other game was longer.)

I don't believe in the power of coincidence quite that much. Though 5 is probably a good number of scum (for one team, anyway) in this game. Probably.

Then why the aloofness? Why not say it was a fake slip right away when people started voting and calling it out?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Golden wrote:This is what a real slip looks like.

I disagree. I also don't like this post, which condemns Dizzy and then does nothing about it.

VOTE GOLDEN.

This deserves a sirengif

Even without you catching up, this is plainly misrepresentative. You clipped half of my post - the half that said 'if the original post doesn't say the number of mafia'. And what I did was go back and read the original post for myself.

I don't see what relevance the clipped information had to speedchuck's accusation. Why do you feel he should have included it?

He said I 'did nothing' - an accusation directly at odds with the bit he clipped out. Why do you think it's of no relevance?

Golden wrote:He said I 'did nothing' - an accusation directly at odds with the bit he clipped out. Why do you think it's of no relevance?

"Did nothing" refers to the weight of accusation carried in your post. "That's what a real slip looks like" is clearly accusatory, and speedchuck believed that in the absence of a vote it could serve as a bit of a hedge. Declaration without action. Looking back at the OP to confirm the slip isn't action, because it's an implied necessity for the declaration to even matter.

speedchuck can correct me if my interpretation is incorrect.

To me it looks more like you insisting upon a misrepresentation that isn't actually meaningful than speedchuck doing the misrepresenting.

I've entered a busy time and I'm struggling to keep up. My wife's family are coming from Australia today and staying a week, so please don't expect my contributions to be as stellar as usual. I will still post a bit from work and from my phone but not from my home PC at all, and I won't have many opportunities to keep up.

That said, I owe everyone a reads post, which I will do as soon as I can.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:To me it looks more like you insisting upon a misrepresentation that isn't actually meaningful than speedchuck doing the misrepresenting.

I'm not insisting on anything. I said it once, speedchuck replied, his reply is fine with me. By 'nothing' he did mean 'vote' (which, by the way, is not the same thing as 'nothing' even if you want to interpret it that way), and from the off I realised that it was possible that this is what he meant (although it wasn't clear to me). We've now resolved the misunderstanding.

I don't like this push from you at all. You're making it seem like I was being way more aggressive and repetitive than I was.