The Syndicate

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:35 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:24 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:34 pmOh. It was a joke. You said you hated early townreads so I gave you one.

Hi I'm MR I'm suuuper funny.

I thought it was genuine.

Do you have any read on Guillo? He's been posting a lot.

Image giving D0 reads.

Spoiler: show

probs just town but 'super paranoid' is a sneaky scum attitude that gets towncleared so I'm not closing the book on that, considering he's playing it up a fair bit.

I don't disagree on Radish's content (or lack thereof). I would vote there before I'd vote a non-poster. But he did make this post which at least aligns with his behavior thus far this game

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:39 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:40 am There are 500 posts in the thread and Master Radishes is yet to make a single read. I invite anyone to read his ISO and prove me otherwise. I believe that is scummy for a player of his caliber.

Technically he gave Guillotine a townread, but that was probably a joke.

I checked the post you just quoted - not sure how much of a townread it is. It's so open ended, "Guillo is town but he could also be scum". Sort of like the wall you made about my meta where the conclusion wasn't clear to neither me nor Long Con. I personally find behavior like that >rand scummy.

Tutuu, why you keep smearing me?

I was actually referring to this Radish post though. The first post here, he said it was a townread, and the second one, he said it was a joke.

I didn't see what he'd written in the spoiler until later on, but you're right, that's also waffley.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:57 pm Tutuu, why you keep smearing me?

Because you always rand Mafia, you started the game by pushing a Town player (me) who was also getting pushed by multiple others, you made that big wall that to me didn't have an apparent conclusion or end goal and I'm not sure why you did all of that for Dizzy when nothing seems to have changed for him after he read/skimmed it.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:00 pm

Spoiler: show

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:44 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:39 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:05 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:39 amI suspect you though. I don’t trust people giving easy townreads early D1 or in this case D0.
Why do you town read all those people?

I think this is pretty normal for Tutu tbh. It's pretty normal for a lot of players, myself included. They even tend to be good. =p

If this is the case then im gonna have a hard time playing here.
I’m not a trusting player. My style is you are guilty until proven otherwise.

I mean your name is 'Guillotine' so that attitude makes sense.

You'll be fine here, dw. People throw around early townreads but don't actually stick to them if they later find reason not to.

Also I'm giving you an early D0 townlean now.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:34 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:32 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:25 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:01 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:44 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:39 pm

If this is the case then im gonna have a hard time playing here.
I’m not a trusting player. My style is you are guilty until proven otherwise.

I mean your name is 'Guillotine' so that attitude makes sense.

You'll be fine here, dw. People throw around early townreads but don't actually stick to them if they later find reason not to.

Also I'm giving you an early D0 townlean now.

I hosted a game where you were scum very recently. I’d be careful to try to do reverse psychology on me if I were you.

You made me realize something with that last sentence though. Im giving scum hints on how to manipulate me.

I don't even know which part of my post is supposed to be reverse psychology.

Because i said that i'm suspicious of people easily townreading me on D1, you read this and still proceeded to easily townread me. Why would you do so if you just saw my reluctance towards that behavior? Maybe because you are not afraid to be scum read by me as a result thus you must be town. Too WIFOM to be WIFOM, except maybe it is WIFOM.

That is my thought process. I must say though im a naturally paranoid and skeptical player, so i'm giving you time to show me if you are town or not.

Oh. It was a joke. You said you hated early townreads so I gave you one.

Hi I'm MR I'm suuuper funny.

I was actually referring to this Radish post though. The first post here, he said it was a townread, and the second one, he said it was a joke.

I didn't see what he'd written in the spoiler until later on, but you're right, that's also waffley.

Alright.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:36 pmThat moment is the moment from my perspective where tutuu's tone shifted,.

Ok. So you are saying that you think Tutu's tone shifted because she got suspicion, or no? It's still not entirely clear to me.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:55 pmI checked the post you just quoted - not sure how much of a townread it is. It's so open ended, "Guillo is town but he could also be scum". Sort of like the wall you made about my meta where the conclusion wasn't clear to neither me nor Long Con. I personally find behavior like that >rand scummy.

I didn't particularly care for that read either. Paranoia glasses on, it kind of looked teammate-y. Like, "yeah I agree with the town read, but also if he's scum I did warn you". So that's in the back of my mind. But I don't find Guillo particularly scummy myself, not that he has done much other than apparent paranoia and given an impression of how he plays. I'm sure he'll give more content before the day is over though.

Regarding Radish, I think he's had a slow start like this in about every game I've played with him, as town and scum. I don't see that as AI for Radish. I'm just impatient for him to share where he's at.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:08 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:57 pm Tutuu, why you keep smearing me?

Because you always rand Mafia, you started the game by pushing a Town player (me) who was also getting pushed by multiple others, you made that big wall that to me didn't have an apparent conclusion or end goal and I'm not sure why you did all of that for Dizzy when nothing seems to have changed for him after he read/skimmed it.

I pulled those quotes because Dizzy asked if your behavior this game is common. I also don't understand your assumption of intent here in regards to the bolded part. I could not know what Dizzy was going to do with the quotes I mentioned. And if he didn't do anything with them, shouldn't you be asking him why he's not doing nothing with them, not asking me why I bothered to do it when he asked?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:15 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:36 pmThat moment is the moment from my perspective where tutuu's tone shifted,.

Ok. So you are saying that you think Tutu's tone shifted because she got suspicion, or no? It's still not entirely clear to me.

Yes.

It was written in my head, but I apparently I didn't say it very clearly.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:32 pmI pulled those quotes because Dizzy asked if your behavior this game is common. I also don't understand your assumption of intent here in regards to the bolded part. I could not know what Dizzy was going to do with the quotes I mentioned. And if he didn't do anything with them, shouldn't you be asking him why he's not doing nothing with them, not asking me why I bothered to do it when he asked?

I didn't ask you to pull quotes. I asked the thread in general if Tutu had become much more serious than what I know she was before. The impression I've gotten is that she hasn't, and her tone is just different this game. That said, I have seen Tutu be very "get to it, let's do this shit" as town, but not from the get go probably. Anyway, I guess this has been debated a lot.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:34 pmYes.

It was written in my head, but I apparently I didn't say it very clearly.

Right. That's how you're first post read to me, but like you were saying it indirectly. Which led me to wonder why you wouldn't be more direct with it, since it read like an accusation.

Paranoid glasses is you pulled quoted up to feed my discomfort with the tonal shift and just nudged the accusation. I'm not really a fan of how softly you expressed it. I'm also not a fan of how you deflected Tutu onto me right now. So I'm scowling a little bit in your direction, although I must admit that your hair is very cool.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:08 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:57 pm Tutuu, why you keep smearing me?

Because you always rand Mafia, you started the game by pushing a Town player (me) who was also getting pushed by multiple others, you made that big wall that to me didn't have an apparent conclusion or end goal and I'm not sure why you did all of that for Dizzy when nothing seems to have changed for him after he read/skimmed it.

My alignment in previous game has no bearing on my alignment this game. That is not a reason to smear me.

I pushed a player who did a thing I saw as suspicious. That is not a reason to smear me, even if that player is you.

Writing a big wall that came to an inconclusive conclusion. That is not a reason to smear me. Yes it may have been inconclusive, and also poorly written, but I'd have been happy to clarify.


Smearing is scummy behavior. There's not a townie reason to engage in that.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:38 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:34 pmYes.

It was written in my head, but I apparently I didn't say it very clearly.

Right. That's how you're first post read to me, but like you were saying it indirectly. Which led me to wonder why you wouldn't be more direct with it, since it read like an accusation.

Paranoid glasses is you pulled quoted up to feed my discomfort with the tonal shift and just nudged the accusation. I'm not really a fan of how softly you expressed it. I'm also not a fan of how you deflected Tutu onto me right now. So I'm scowling a little bit in your direction, although I must admit that your hair is very cool.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:43 pm

Yes?

You're saying Tutu is smearing you. I can easily say that you were smearing Tutu as well, the accusation being that she has a different tone because she was being suspected. An accusation I felt I had to kind of drag out of you for it to be clear.

Does this make sense to you?

In fact, I don't think "smearing" is a very good word to use here though, because it assumes the worst intent already.

I found it suspicious, or at the very least interesting.

Now I understand why tutuu is putting on her game face. I can't seriously respond to that post without thinking about my hair.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:50 pm Now I understand why tutuu is putting on her game face. I can't seriously respond to that post without thinking about my hair.

And what gorgeous hair to think about!

I don't think you can accuse me of smearing and then tell me that smearing is the wrong word to use.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:41 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:08 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:57 pm Tutuu, why you keep smearing me?

Because you always rand Mafia, you started the game by pushing a Town player (me) who was also getting pushed by multiple others, you made that big wall that to me didn't have an apparent conclusion or end goal and I'm not sure why you did all of that for Dizzy when nothing seems to have changed for him after he read/skimmed it.

My alignment in previous game has no bearing on my alignment this game. That is not a reason to smear me.

I pushed a player who did a thing I saw as suspicious. That is not a reason to smear me, even if that player is you.

Writing a big wall that came to an inconclusive conclusion. That is not a reason to smear me. Yes it may have been inconclusive, and also poorly written, but I'd have been happy to clarify.


Smearing is scummy behavior. There's not a townie reason to engage in that.

When you scumread me that is "pushing" and is a towny behavior. When I scumread you that is "smearing" and is a scummy behavior. Right, got it.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:53 pm I don't think you can accuse me of smearing and then tell me that smearing is the wrong word to use.

Blah. Don't be pedantic. I'm saying I could accuse you of smearing just as much as you are accusing Tutu of it. But personally, I don't really find it a helpful word right now. I think you're smart enough to understand my intent here. I'm trying to work with you here, so this kind of "got you" just leaves me rolling my eyes tbh.

Anyway, Marmot is town I believe. I find him noticably different compared to his scum games in that he is arguing alot of semantics and he is insistent in supporting his (in my opinion wrong) arguments. I think that's a >rand town behavior depending on the person.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:59 pmOne thing I do to get townread as scum is to lock myself into a really tunnelly back and forth thunderdome that spans several pages. Then, I'll suddenly pretend to re-evaluate the other player and flip my read on them to town, pretending to break out of the tunnel. They are usually so relieved that I'm no longer being stubborn/wrong that they will townread me in return.

This is underway right now.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:58 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:59 pmOne thing I do to get townread as scum is to lock myself into a really tunnelly back and forth thunderdome that spans several pages. Then, I'll suddenly pretend to re-evaluate the other player and flip my read on them to town, pretending to break out of the tunnel. They are usually so relieved that I'm no longer being stubborn/wrong that they will townread me in return.

This is underway right now.

To be fair, I'm the one hounding tutuu, and that is an Alison strategy you've quoted.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:58 pm Anyway, Marmot is town I believe. I find him noticably different compared to his scum games in that he is arguing alot of semantics and he is insistent in supporting his (in my opinion wrong) arguments. I think that's a >rand town behavior depending on the person.

I was thinking that him even being like "wah, you're smearing me!" is probably > rand town. Maybe.

I can't really decide on anything so far. Which checks out.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:58 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:59 pmOne thing I do to get townread as scum is to lock myself into a really tunnelly back and forth thunderdome that spans several pages. Then, I'll suddenly pretend to re-evaluate the other player and flip my read on them to town, pretending to break out of the tunnel. They are usually so relieved that I'm no longer being stubborn/wrong that they will townread me in return.

This is underway right now.

You are wrong but it's a towny post from you. I would be impressed if you posted this as scum.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:00 pm To be fair, I'm the one hounding tutuu, and that is an Alison strategy you've quoted.

What? You accused her of smearing you.

And it's a public Alison strategy that I estimate tutuu has probably read more than five times.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:02 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:00 pm To be fair, I'm the one hounding tutuu, and that is an Alison strategy you've quoted.

What? You accused her of smearing you.

Yes, but her smears have been in response to my accusations. As in, she feels like an unwilling participant in this thunderdome.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:03 pm And it's a public Alison strategy that I estimate tutuu has probably read more than five times.

I don't know this, but I would suspect that Tutu is way less likely to employ and actual premeditated strategy as scum, like Alison would. I think Tutu is much more go with the flow, if my basic understanding of personality can take me anywhere. That is just my guess, Tutu is welcome to comment.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:03 pm And it's a public Alison strategy that I estimate tutuu has probably read more than five times.

I don't care about other people's strategies and opinions on how to play Mafia, I have never taken them into account and I never will.

The strategy she outlined there is good imo because it's a towny behavior. I have reached a similar conclusion as her by myself. I could be scum faking a towny behavior, but I also could be town doing the town behavior, Long Con. You are underestimating my ability as town to reevaluate my wrong reads.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:56 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:53 pm I don't think you can accuse me of smearing and then tell me that smearing is the wrong word to use.

Blah. Don't be pedantic. I'm saying I could accuse you of smearing just as much as you are accusing Tutu of it. But personally, I don't really find it a helpful word right now. I think you're smart enough to understand my intent here. I'm trying to work with you here, so this kind of "got you" just leaves me rolling my eyes tbh.

I wasn't being serious there. I understood your intent, I just wanted to hair-y you.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:08 pmI wasn't being serious there. I understood your intent, I just wanted to hair-y you.

But I'm a very serious person! Just like Tutuu!

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:04 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:02 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:00 pm To be fair, I'm the one hounding tutuu, and that is an Alison strategy you've quoted.

What? You accused her of smearing you.

Yes, but her smears have been in response to my accusations. As in, she feels like an unwilling participant in this thunderdome.

Yea, this is ridiculous. You were the first one to scumread me. Because that's what you did. Only one of us can scumread the other one first. After this fact, I can't go back in time and make it so you didn't scumread me first. Human communication isn't simultaneous (both people talking at the same time), they take turns talking.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:06 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:03 pm And it's a public Alison strategy that I estimate tutuu has probably read more than five times.

I don't care about other people's strategies and opinions on how to play Mafia, I have never taken them into account and I never will.

The strategy she outlined there is good imo because it's a towny behavior. I have reached a similar conclusion as her by myself. I could be scum faking a towny behavior, but I also could be town doing the town behavior, Long Con. You are underestimating my ability as town to reevaluate my wrong reads.

What made you reevaluate Marmot?

Literally just waiting for certain players and follow ups right now. Nothing stands out to me that much as scummy, at least nothing I'm feeling convinced of. A lot of players seems fine-ish, and I'm more inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt. I feel like I'm lacking info on Snow, Radish, Made, Guillo, Epi and maybe others. So that is what I'm craving. Luckily, there's time left.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:13 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:06 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:03 pm And it's 2 public Alison strategy that I estimate tutuu has probably read more than five times.

I don't care about other people's strategies and opinions on how to play Mafia, I have never taken them into account and I never will.

The strategy she outlined there is good imo because it's a towny behavior. I have reached a similar conclusion as her by myself. I could be scum faking a towny behavior, but I also could be town doing the town behavior, Long Con. You are underestimating my ability as town to reevaluate my wrong reads.

What made you reevaluate Marmot?

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:58 pm Anyway, Marmot is town I believe. I find him noticably different compared to his scum games in that he is arguing alot of semantics and he is insistent in supporting his (in my opinion wrong) arguments. I think that's a >rand town behavior depending on the person.

So, unsupported meta and a throwaway finisher sentence. I'm not really buying it, tutes.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:19 pm So, unsupported meta and a throwaway finisher sentence. I'm not really buying it, tutes.

You know what, sure.

[VOTE: Tutuu] aubergine

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:14 pm Literally just waiting for certain players and follow ups right now. Nothing stands out to me that much as scummy, at least nothing I'm feeling convinced of. A lot of players seems fine-ish, and I'm more inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt. I feel like I'm lacking info on Snow, Radish, Made, Guillo, Epi and maybe others. So that is what I'm craving. Luckily, there's time left.

I am feeling this. Made has done as much as Grogu except he did it in five posts instead of zero. Yet Nanook wants to vote Grogu... maybe he's invested in Made Futures?

I expect Grogu will be modkilled or replaced.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:19 pm So, unsupported meta and a throwaway finisher sentence. I'm not really buying it, tutes.

Not sure why are you calling it unsupported. I have seen around 5 games where Marmot was Mafia prior to this game. You are confirmation biasing.

D1 fights bore me.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:34 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:19 pm So, unsupported meta and a throwaway finisher sentence. I'm not really buying it, tutes.

Not sure why are you calling it unsupported. I have seen around 5 games where Marmot was Mafia prior to this game. You are confirmation biasing.

I mean, I have no way of confirming whether you have a great memory of everyone's playstyle in every game, or if you are making it up, unless I do an exhaustive search of Marmot's past. Then, when I find a scum game where Marmot was semantics-arguing, you can just say "*shrug* well I meant the ones he's not" and my time will turn out to be not well spent.

That's not confirmation bias. That's how I view most meta arguments when they're unsupported.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:34 pm D1 fights bore me.

Tell us your ideal exciting Day 1.

[VOTE: Tutuu] aubergine Some of the arguments between Dizzy, Marmot and Long Con have been at least partially convincing to me.

Couple that with the fact that I got the impression Tutuu was trying to buddying me for a little while, and also Tutuu's progression on me has seemed very forced/reactive to how others are acting in regard to me and her rather than coming from an original place. I've only played one game with Tutuu, but in it, she seemed at least reasonably willing to go against the grain with reads, making her progression on me suspicious to me.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:41 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:34 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:19 pm So, unsupported meta and a throwaway finisher sentence. I'm not really buying it, tutes.

Not sure why are you calling it unsupported. I have seen around 5 games where Marmot was Mafia prior to this game. You are confirmation biasing.

I mean, I have no way of confirming whether you have a great memory of everyone's playstyle in every game, or if you are making it up, unless I do an exhaustive search of Marmot's past. Then, when I find a scum game where Marmot was semantics-arguing, you can just say "*shrug* well I meant the ones he's not" and my time will turn out to be not well spent.

That's not confirmation bias. That's how I view most meta arguments when they're unsupported.

That is literally confirmation bias. "It is not resourceful of me to confirm your claims of your understanding of Marmot's meta, therefore I shall default to assume that you're lying about something."

It is absurd to think that it would be correct of me to go over Marmot's ISOs in past games myself and quote non-semantics posts to prove my read that I believe he is non-semantic as mafia. You want me to bring you proof of me claiming that something does not exist - that is ridiculous. It's like I said Santa Claus isn't real and you said "Prove Santa Claus isn't real".

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:41 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:34 pm D1 fights bore me.

Tell us your ideal exciting Day 1.

Starts with a trip to my champagne room downstairs.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:44 pm [VOTE: Tutuu] aubergine Some of the arguments between Dizzy, Marmot and Long Con have been at least partially convincing to me.

Couple that with the fact that I got the impression Tutuu was trying to buddying me for a little while, and also Tutuu's progression on me has seemed very forced/reactive to how others are acting in regard to me and her rather than coming from an original place. I've only played one game with Tutuu, but in it, she seemed at least reasonably willing to go against the grain with reads, making her progression on me suspicious to me.

You were wrong on my alignment in that one game we played together so I'm not sure why do you think that you suddenly figured out how to not be wrong on me.