The Syndicate

Quoting for posterity.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey, I just remembered this thing!



I'm doing analyses right now, I'll think about this as I go. Tell me if you think anything is interesting here.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Love the formatting

Thanks.

Curious that I am almost a unanimous baddie read.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Thanks.

Curious that I am almost a unanimous baddie read.

To be fair I actually am not sure about you but since it is an impulse/gut read exercise...first thing that came to mind

I would feel much better with Floyd than yourself.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Thanks.

Curious that I am almost a unanimous baddie read.

How would you describe you as scum in your own words? Cos you were surprised earlier when someone thought this was you as scum, so if we're talking behaviour what is scum metalmarsh like?

motel room wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Thanks.

Curious that I am almost a unanimous baddie read.

How would you describe you as scum in your own words? Cos you were surprised earlier when someone thought this was you as scum, so if we're talking behaviour what is scum metalmarsh like?

Good question.

Last game I was mafia, I did jackshit the whole game, just teasing people and having fun. A Gentleman's Guide to Mafia

The time before that, after doing shenanigans on Day 1, I was the most vocal scumhunty player in the game (after MP was nightkilled). I wasn't a great "civilian", but I was the most active. Angry Birds Mafia

I was also mafia in Recruitment Mafia, but I was recruited to the mafia team Night 5, and the game doesn't really describe one's "mafia style" like a normal game would. But we still had to eliminate the other mafia team, and we were successful.

Looking back, our teams did win all three of those games, and they happened to be 3 of the last 4 games I've played here.

Dunno if that tells you much. My style in some ways stays consistent, but in some ways changes drastically from game-to-game, and also depending on the game size and location.

Epignosis wrote:At some point, bcornett24 needs to be held responsible for all the shitty lynches he's voted in early.

I don't know if something else is said about this later as I am still catching up ~20 pages behind now. But I feel the need to address this now.

This is my voting record:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Dusk 0: rundontwalk (17) and Devin the Omniscient (16)
Day 1: birdwithteeth11 (14)
Day 2: Long Con (32)
Day 3: Golden (10)
Day 4: Devin the Omniscient (15)
Day 5: Devin the Omniscient (10)
Day 6: JaggedJimmyJay (7)

This is snipped as Jay pulled my voting record and made it all nice and organized.

You are blaming me for all the lynches? I stand by all of my votes. I made a case for each of the votes I have cast with the exception of Jay on Day 6 which is after this post was made. If (I was going to ISO jay but I ended up not having time to do so. This is my bad.) After reading more I do not think that Jay is scum.

If you are going to blame me for these you can also include the huge argument that started the case against mac and my defense of sorsha.

If you wish to hold me accountable by all mean do so, but first be sure you read all of my cases regarding the votes.

MacDougall wrote:You cracked the case guys. Jimmy has been publicly orchestrating town lynches on purpose while maintaining a vocal town read on a teammate and we both bussed Long Con on day 2 because he asked us to.

Or we are both townies who have a town read on each other and both had a scum read on a scum player.

And in a twist of fate you two are our teammates.

I find this to be interesting. Though the tone is sarcastic in nature the implication/association that Mac was trying to make here is clear. Even though this is most likely false, based on Jay's actions Mac, still planted a seed of association with JJJ even when he most likely figured that he would be lynched.

MacDougall wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:It's been fun doing it to a whole bunch of new people sure. More fun that I envisioned it would be.

I play hostile and provocative for a reason and you know why I do it. Same as it ever was.

I don't have any issue with anybody having a scum read on me. That comes with the territory. I have issues with players who go along with half cocked cases without criticizing them first. I don't even fault Matt his case, after it all came out in the wash I can see where he got the idea from, despite there being a glaring hole or two.

I'm trying to convince the folks here that I'm not awful at Mafia and that sometimes it can be beneficial to trust me a little bit. Is my town read on you going to be the reason they never trust me again ever when this game is over?

If you're the townie that I think you are your read on me is good.

More of mac further associating with JJJ

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

motel room wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Thanks.

Curious that I am almost a unanimous baddie read.

How would you describe you as scum in your own words? Cos you were surprised earlier when someone thought this was you as scum, so if we're talking behaviour what is scum metalmarsh like?

Good question.

Last game I was mafia, I did jackshit the whole game, just teasing people and having fun. A Gentleman's Guide to Mafia

The time before that, after doing shenanigans on Day 1, I was the most vocal scumhunty player in the game (after MP was nightkilled). I wasn't a great "civilian", but I was the most active. Angry Birds Mafia

I was also mafia in Recruitment Mafia, but I was recruited to the mafia team Night 5, and the game doesn't really describe one's "mafia style" like a normal game would. But we still had to eliminate the other mafia team, and we were successful.

Looking back, our teams did win all three of those games, and they happened to be 3 of the last 4 games I've played here.

Dunno if that tells you much. My style in some ways stays consistent, but in some ways changes drastically from game-to-game, and also depending on the game size and location.

So why would you be so surprised that someone might find your play in this game scummy? You don't seem too vocal scumhunty this game, maybe more like your first example, but if you're good at switching masks as scum why act like its confusing why we should think this particular mask is scummy?

Also, metalmarsh what's the story with your read on Russtifinko?

You voted him Day 1. Had some cases. Said he was bad later still.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:DrWilgy! I have a response for you. These 6 players are bad.

• Devin the Omniscient
  MacDougal
  Russtifinko
  seaside
  Strawhenge
  TheFloyd73

Then he was on your list of Don't Lynch.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Anyway, I'm mafia'd out tonight, but I may peek back in later.

Tomorrow I'll finish my response to your BR ISO, Jay. Then I'll look at your bcornett ISO. Then I'll read the second half of Rico's novel. Just reminding myself what I plan to do here.

Also, my list of Don'tLynches

Bullzeye
Elohcin
JaggedJimmyJay
Matt F
Metalmarsh89
RadicalFuzz
Ricochet
Russtifinko

And now he's bad again in the GTH exercise. I'm trying to figure him out, what's made you change your mind at these points?

TheFloyd73 wrote:

Hi!

Are you scum!

bcornett24 wrote:

TheFloyd73 wrote:

Hi!

Are you scum!

?

Needed to clarify ...

Glad I'm the "almost."

OMG I somehow caught up....3 hours later. Skimmed every page read some of the bigger posts especially focusing on Mac and Jay.

@Floyd - Any thoughts on the game?

@Fuzz - You think I'm scum; why?

bcornett24 wrote:@Floyd - Any thoughts on the game?

I'm a bit down at the moment, I don't really want to discuss anything about the game at the moment.

TheFloyd73 wrote:

bcornett24 wrote:@Floyd - Any thoughts on the game?

I'm a bit down at the moment, I don't really want to discuss anything about the game at the moment.

Sorry to hear that, everything okay?

bcornett24 wrote:

TheFloyd73 wrote:

bcornett24 wrote:@Floyd - Any thoughts on the game?

I'm a bit down at the moment, I don't really want to discuss anything about the game at the moment.

Sorry to hear that, everything okay?

Could be better, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Voting Record Comparison for all previous lynches and current vote.

Day 1 - BWT Lynch:
DrWilgy (12), bcornett24 (14), Matt F (23), HamburgerBoy (25), Sorsha (27), Diiny (28), sig (31)

Day 2 - Long Con Lynch:
Choutas (12), sig (16), seaside (17), DrWilgy (18), motel room (31), bcornett24 (32), JaggedJimmyJay (34), Russtifinko (35)

Day 3 - Golden Lynch:
bcornett24 (10), MacDougall (11), Devin the Omniscient (14), DrWilgy (28), sig (30), Sorsha (31), Ricochet (33) JaggedJimmyJay

Day 4 - Sorsha Lynch:
Choutas (6), seaside (8), Devin the Omniscient (9), Strawhenge (11), motel room (17), Matt F (20), Elohcin (24), MacDougall (28), espers (29), Russtifinko (30)

Day 5 - Devis Lynch
bcornett24 (10), Choutas (15), sig (26), Bullzeye (27), Devin the Omniscient (28), Black Rock (29)

Day 6 - Mac Lynch
DrWilgy (4), Ricochet (10), Metalmarsh89 (11), Epignosis (15), Matt F (18), Elohcin (21), Russtifinko (25)

Day 7 - Jay Votes
Metalmarsh89 (3), Epignosis (7), seaside (9), TheFloyd73 (14), Elohcin (17)

Strawhenge wrote: Ricochet ★★½

bro...

I cannot possibly have the same rating that Fear of Music deserves.

Ricochet wrote:

Strawhenge wrote: Ricochet ★★½

bro...

I cannot possibly have the same rating that Fear of Music deserves.

4 players believe I'm a G and 3 believe I'm a bad motherfucker.
Thank you guys. I love y'all.

Marsh, I think yours is the worst vote on my wagon. You've condemned me without bothering to engage me and give me any opportunity. I doubt town Marsh treats me this way.

quick post after even quicker skim: bribri, you actually feel better about jay after last night? How the fug does it not only fail to condemn him but also make him look better?

Ricochet wrote:

Strawhenge wrote: Ricochet ★★½

bro...

I cannot possibly have the same rating that Fear of Music deserves.

Excuse me, sir. That album is ★★★★½

Strawhenge wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Strawhenge wrote: Ricochet ★★½

bro...

I cannot possibly have the same rating that Fear of Music deserves.

Excuse me, sir. That album is ★★★★½

That's not my beautiful Remain in Light!

Less chit chat more scumhunting please.

If you're going to murder me, at least do it in a high effort phase. It feels like people are so comfortable that their checking out for a phase.

GO.

They're*

ew

Ok, so I literally have two hours time this afternoon [EDIT: one hour left at the time of submitting this] (because of some bullshit back-and-forth trips to the school where I teach, for board meetings and other irrelevant shit, both before and three hours from now on) and will have two-ish more in the evening after I come back from German course and have dinner. My day and game time is pretty toast, till EoD, but what can I do?

First, I'm going to take b24's and Epig's idea about scrutinizing the tally and make a monster out of it, same as I ever do, by expanding it to a list of all the tallies, marked with colors on flipped statuses, so far. It won't be up to the standards of G-Man's technicolor lists, then again I am not G-Man. Red means confirmed mafia, green means civilian. Every mafia kill will be also green. For the sake of not putting too much interpretation into this list-making, the SK kills (except for Golden) will be orange - although, personally, except HamburgerBoy, I am fairly convinced those victims were also civilians. Also for the same sake, I will leave myself uncoloured, although y'all should really put in me in green, k.

Day 1 I also have written down tempvotes from JJJ on LC (early on, switched it) and Choutas on Mac.

Questions out of this:
BWT was lynched. LC distanced from BWT wagon. Could teammates have gone there?
If not, did LC's teammates spread? Maybe Floyd, maybe Choutas, maybe on the Russ wagon?
How can we interpret seaside's vote for MacBaddie?
LC - MacBaddie forced antagonism was just proven, could LC - sig be the same? Could sig be bad?
Regardless of sig's alignment, LC still made a "real" case on sig, could teammates have also nested there?

Day 2

Temp votes on scum: motel room early on LC (back afterwards), Sorsha on Mac (irrelevant), LC on Mac (confirmed distancing), Zebra on LC (irrelevant)

I think this is still a very important day to analyse. Apart from Epig, b24 is almost confirmed to have had no LC teammates on. If anyone is of the opinion that bussing LC (whether planned or not) was not what teammates did on that Day, then you seriously need to come with some names from other directions.

Questions from this:
LC mid-wave includes sig, sea, wilg. Too early to judge either of these as bussers or just the right time for any teammate to have done so?
LC final-wave includes Diiny, motel, b24, JJJ, Russ? Bussers here?
Llama wagon got real serious, until Zebra, JJJ and Golden backed away. Did JJJ switch to LC to buss him or to send him to hell as a civ?

Day 3 No temp votes on confirmed MacBaddie.
MacBaddie made a temp vote on Roxy, then jumped on Golden.

Sorsha wagon was huge at one point. Zebra (civ), Dev (civ), Bull, Wilgy, Golden (civ) backed away from it.

Only sig backed away from my wagon, moved to Golden.

Questions:
So what ratio is more likely, between me and Golden? Is it a mix, some here, some there? MacBaddie for instance could have added to my vote, but avoided me like the plague, and attached himself to Golden very early on.

I'm not bad, so keep in mind that between Sorsha, Golden and I, the mafia didn't give a shit who'd get lynched, but they still could have sought not to make too much noise with a case on either of us, just in case they'd look bad or catch heat post-flip.

Day 4 Only temp vote on MacBaddie from Golden (civ).
MacBaddie made a temps on Sorsha, jumped to Matt, jumped to motel, then finally going back on Sorsha.

Well this is a fat one. Again a reminder that the mafia team knew both Devin and Sorsha are civ wagons, but this time the amount of wagoning almost makes me feel they were more comfortable planting themselves anywhere.

Question:
tbh

Day 5 Temp votes on MacBaddie from b24, Matt.

Looks same as it ever was, as well. Everyone on both wagons is still alive and unconfirmed. Devin got lynched probably by being drugged and with or without extra manipulation from civs (Pulled Up? Blind?!).

Questions:
Wait a minute, Matt hounded Mac the whole day without actually voting him in the end?

Day 5

Bit hard for any reveals here, except MacBaddie's, at least for the time being.

Questions:
How likely was bussing Mac? How likely was trying to save him?

If you ask me, I think two factors weigh in on the latter:

a. I dropped the Mac case on Day 6, so despite Mac being under pressure before, it still must have surprised them
b. Mac was never a done deal, till the very moment, so I believe the mentality was that he could be saved rather than that he should be dropped in acid.

Most of Mac's lynchers look consistent, from previous Days, although I'd double-check how MM and Russ converted to this wagon.

Most of Diiny's voters have townreaded Mac till the very end. Combine two possible teammate tendencies - "never losing hope, until the bitter end, that Mac could be saved" with "keeping the townread on Mac, until the bitter end, or otherwise risk blowing themselves up by suddenly flipping on the Mac wagon or waffling" and I think we definitely have teammates on that Diiny wagon.

If Diiny is also bad, then everything's just fucked up.

Any mistakes and omissions are due to hastiness in compiling and redacting this.

nächstes Mal musst du deine Meinung auf Deutsch exprimieren.

Choutas wrote:nächstes Mal musst du deine Meinung auf Deutsch exprimieren.

Gott sei Dank, den Insanifier ist schon tot und ich habe auch keinen anderen Sprachsfluch gesehen.

with 5 mafiosi alive I think it's likely that at least one scumster was cheeky enough to bus.

Here are my thoughts on jay: when he was scum and I was also playing (I didn't read the champs game in enough detail to divine anything useful about scumjj other than the fact that, yes, he knows when to shut up ) J had something that immediately set me off when I saw it. (I was dead at this point so I couldn't take him down. alas). He was very deliberately buddying another play, my fellow bowie fan Mungbean, I think it was. It wasn't so much that he was buddying per se, but that his methods for buddying were very un-jjj, namely, dismissing evidence or really just not grappling with it. J can be wrong as town; he has been and he will be. He's obviously evidentially damned, and his scum game shows that he does like saving teammates over bussing them, which helps the case. I'd just like to see something that gives me that vibe in his ph.

If anyone can bring something like that to my attention, J taking a stance that doesn't consider evidence or is extremely suggestive of deliberately downplaying or disregarding it (as opposed to a read that goes against what some evidence might say, which everyone does and has to do when amassing all the evidence)

I'm not opposed to the lynch at all, and he's one of the better candidates along with brian. My problem is that I wasn't getting particularly scummy vibes from him before, so while it's evidentially sound I would like to get my gut to join the fun

bcornett24 wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:Here's a nutshell on my Jay feelings, since he's leading in votes.

Jay is, almost needless to say, hard as fuhhhh to read. I think his actions near the last EOD were quite scummy, and a couple nuggets in his voting history are questionable. However, I'm reticent to hop on that bandwagon because one of Jay's greatest strengths is one of his weaknesses (no offense meant, Jay): when Jay sets his sights on an objective, he comes off as really sure of it. He's a confident player, and rightfully so. The reason this can be to his detriment is that if he's wrong about somebody, e.g. Mac, his adamant incorrect case might seem inauthentic.

To wit, it's possible that Jay was simply wrong about Mac. But since he was adamant about his stance, that's why we're not trusting him so much right now.

I stand by my two-star rating on him; he's giving me a nasty feeling. I just want to throw the possibility out there so that we can approach his case evenly.

I haven't reached this point in reading yet. Is this why he is so suspicious as of right now?

I do not think Jay would intentionally throw himself in that position. My bet is that Mac is rolling around his floor laughing at this. I would see Jay more likely to bus Mac or distance himself than to defend him and potentially risk his own lynch after. Why would he, as town purposefully risk bringing about his own lynch? This would be absurdly stupid, and even more so if he was scum. This seems very similar to the sorsha case and I am going to take a look at who voted for her and who is currently voting for Jay.

WIFOM, that's why. So he can make this argument. It's not unheard of, especially when you consider that scumJ also likes saving his scummates.

So I have sig as the person who put the first vote on Diiny. At that point, Mac led with 6 votes. No other player had more than one vote, except JJJ (seaside and b24) (BR at one point had 3, but MM and Epig had already switched to Mac, leaving only Russ with his vote on BR).

It's clear Diiny wasn't drugged, since he didn't edge out Mac in the tally, so why would sig's choice, if baddie, be to put his vote and try to start something on a player that's not vote manipulatable? Nonetheless, it doesn't change that Dinny would have been a good option, considering he had been sussed enough before.

It also doesn't change that sig, if baddie, would have looked bad voting BR or JJ. He has no read on BR, I think, and his suss on JJJ was also far behind (Day 3), oscillating with some "look at the good work JJJ pulled on Rico" during the same day.

Unfortunately, sig also has very little on Diiny himself, apart from his lynch post. In fact, he has more posts in which he questioned Diiny voters than the opposite.

sig Day 5 wrote:why Diiny could you explain your reasoning for it?

sig Day 2 wrote:So Seaside why do you find Wilgy and Diiny scummy?

and non-committal posts

sig wrote:I also would like to hear some more from Diiny he has gone off the radar completely.

Good. So sig votes Diiny, seaside votes Diiny (switching from JJJ), then this happens that, upon revision, made me jump:

> MacBaddie moans about there being no counterwagon to avoid his "mislynch"

and seaside replies

seaside wrote:

MacDougall wrote:6 votes on me and the rest scattered all around. No counterwagon forming. Yeah this doesn't seem like a mislynch at all.

diiny

wat da hell!

Was this like a total marshalling signal for the Diiny counterwagon to get going?!

You already have my history on Diiny votes from there on., so this is the big picture of the Diiny counterwagon.

I have to go shower and leave soon.

That comparison to the Mungbean buddy-fest is a good one Diiny. I buddied him, a townie, because he trusted me snd I knew people would wrongly link him to me. Scum 101.

Now I'm getting a dose of my own medicine. In this game Mac is JJJ and JJJ is Mungbean.

Remind me before I go food shopping, J, did you think I was scum as well? Or was it mostly a defence of the MacDrizzle?

@rico I really don't understand what the fuck seaside is doing there either, I pointed it out to him I think but no reply as of yet afaik I'll be able to check soon

Diiny wrote:Remind me before I go food shopping, J, did you think I was scum as well? Or was it mostly a defence of the MacDrizzle?

I thought you were scummier than Mac. When there are two big wagons, you'll find that I tend to pick a side. This isn't RYM, where my word holds some sway -- otherwise Black Rock would have been the counterwagon, not you.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:That comparison to the Mungbean buddy-fest is a good one Diiny. I buddied him, a townie, because he trusted me snd I knew people would wrongly link him to me. Scum 101.

Now I'm getting a dose of my own medicine. In this game Mac is JJJ and JJJ is Mungbean.

I will say the difference is i don't trust Jay, in fact I don't trust anybody because this is mafia and it is stupid to trust anybody whose role is not known. Especially considering the game is all about manipulation.

@Diiny- This being said, you just said that scum may know when to shut his mouth, from my experience, granted it is far more limited than your own, town Jay is like an engigizer bunny and keeps going.

The comparison you have made though is worth noting.

@Diiny - Have you noticed him avoiding evidence or downplaying others points?

bcornett I think you're bad because you seem to have very selective question answering skills. Questions that have been asked for days, not just once or twice, are hard to miss.

The only thing that leaps to mind for J3 downplaying or avoiding evidence is his apparent inability to discuss Wilgy. If I recall correctly he made a post asking for a rundown of the suspicions against him and then hushed up about it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Marsh, I think yours is the worst vote on my wagon. You've condemned me without bothering to engage me and give me any opportunity. I doubt town Marsh treats me this way.

Your accusations are weak from a Jay perspective. You have not made any effort at a case against me. Once, you dropped the comment "I think we're seeing baddie metalmarsh here, but I really don't know what that looks like". You later down-played my role in the lynching of MacDougall, and though you acknowledged my responses, you seem to have forgotten them.

Also, your meta-reading of MacDougall was incorrect, so I don't know how much you plan to trust your meta-read of me right now. This might not be a valid argument, but I'll say it anyway.

You're right, I haven't done much to support my vote today, but I did have more to say about it Day 6. This sounds weird, but a night phase would have been nice for things to cool off after a wild Day 6. I've had other things to attend to, so haven't had time to revoice my Jay suspicion.

Addendum: I rebuke, town-Jay would not treat me this way.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Marsh, I think yours is the worst vote on my wagon. You've condemned me without bothering to engage me and give me any opportunity. I doubt town Marsh treats me this way.

Also Jay, if you don't mind. Could you explain why my vote is the "worst" on your wagon?

I understand why Epignosis's vote doesn't look bad. He started the day off with a small case and a reason for his vote. However, what about the other three votes: Elohcin, seaside, and TheFloyd?

RadicalFuzz wrote:bcornett I think you're bad because you seem to have very selective question answering skills. Questions that have been asked for days, not just once or twice, are hard to miss.

The only thing that leaps to mind for J3 downplaying or avoiding evidence is his apparent inability to discuss Wilgy. If I recall correctly he made a post asking for a rundown of the suspicions against him and then hushed up about it.

What great reasoning! There is no way it has anything to do with the thread having 5000 posts in it and having to catch up on ~20 pages several times.

In all seriousness, There have been so many questions asked in the last several how am iI evaporated to know whatyou are currently referring to?

Let's talk about Dr. Wilgy then.

Auto correct... Supposed to know