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Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Night 5]

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:50 pm
by Enrique
FAIL

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Night 5]

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:50 pm
by MacDougall
Epignosis wrote: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:49 pm
MacDougall wrote: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:47 pm I am gonna ungift your holiday exchange gift.

Linki: You didn't do shit. I am a civ so whatever you think you know or whatever you're playing at is wrong.
I'm an independent. What is my goal?
You tell me?

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Night 5]

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:52 pm
by Enrique
me, a frikken idiot: made up bullshit and bluffs
you, a brain genius: ACTUAL INFO

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Night 5]

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:53 pm
by Epignosis
MacDougall has a vested interest because he is bad with a team. Even though he has no win condition, he's bad. He's trying to keep his team going. Admirable.

speedchuck fucked up. I don't care what he says. He killed Kylemii (not G-Man, dipshit Enrique).

Sorsha is bad too.

Lynch all of them and have a merry Christmas.

But you all won't do that.

You'll hem and haw over other shit.

And lose.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Night 5]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:00 am
by Long Con
Well, this has been a robust Night phase. Let's take a couple of hours to cool off, and I'll have a few drinks and set up the Day.

Mafia: A World Asunder - Night 5

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:52 am
by Long Con
Lights Out

"Someone's out there," said the Scout Spirit. "Please, you have to move along!"

sloonei nodded. "I hear you, little spirit, but I can take care of myself!" He unholstered his gun and kept a keen eye on all relevant danger points along the camp.

"They don't want you dead," wisped the Warding Spirit. "But I cannot protect you from the evil heart, only from the blistering noose..."

sloonei grinned wryly. "I'm here to defeat the evil hearts, Wardy, bring 'em on!"

The Warding Spirit looked dismayed, and floated up. sloonei kept a sharp eye out for danger, but was blindsided by evil magic. His breath seized as black tendrils grasped his heart, and the spirits floated, swirled, and mourned.

* * * * *
sprityo had taken the golden idol from its pedestal, but on his way out of the temple. things had begun to fall apart, somewhat Cataclysmically. Each room he went through seemed to attack him, angry that he would dare to plunder their treasures. Giant blocks of stone fell from the ceiling as he dodged nimbly around them. Poison-tipped arrows flew from round wall-holes, and sprityo tucked and rolled like a champ. Through all obstacles and booby-traps, he persevered.

That's why it was all the more tragic when he finally made it out, only to find himself face-to-face with a team of assassins, tasked with ending his life.

* * * * *
Jack was forlorn, despairing... Hungry. Cursed beyond the capacity to say, he tried finally to appease the beast that gnawed his innards, but felt his hands freeze up. He thought back to all the great victories he had had in the past, regretting his decision to enter such a cursed Realm. Retching, heaving, he tried to take flight just once, more, but fell to the earth, his flame extinguished, for now. Truly, such a man is difficult to keep down forever.

sloonei has been killed! He was the Spirit Wrangler, a Civilian.

sprityo has been killed! He was Grimlock Wolverson, a Civilan.

Jack has succumbed to the Hunger, and died! He was Lamplighter, a Civilan.

Day 6 has begun. May God have mercy on all our souls.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:58 am
by sprityo
Spoiler: show
Image

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:02 am
by MacDougall
Jeez

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:03 am
by MacDougall
Lorab is still on the list.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:07 am
by Long Con
MacDougall wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:03 am Lorab is still on the list.
Nope.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:08 am
by MacDougall
Er what

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:10 am
by MacDougall
So The Hunger, The Darkness and Lamplighter are all in this game. So there ARE more than two secret roles?

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:11 am
by colonialbob
NOT GREAT, BOB

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:14 am
by colonialbob
PS [VOTE: ddl] aubergine

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:17 am
by DharmaHelper
Jeebus Beebus.

But I did say it was going to get worse before it got better.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:21 am
by DharmaHelper
Voting DDL

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:33 am
by Enrique
hahaha what the fucking hell i hate this game

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:33 am
by Enrique
hey mafia shitheads you have to kill each other too

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:34 am
by Enrique
you're not shitheads i just wanna kill you

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:36 am
by Enrique
rezz jack

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:38 am
by DharmaHelper
Enrique you didn't do it.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:41 am
by Enrique
i didnt get my freakin mercurion thrust

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:08 am
by DharmaHelper
Anyway I'm getting "eye twitch" tired so I'm gonna kick it. This game is fun.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:11 am
by DharmaHelper
I wavered from the Grand Plan and I was punished for my doubts. Forgive me and let the prophecy continue.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Night 5]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:44 am
by sabie12
Epignosis wrote: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:53 pm MacDougall has a vested interest because he is bad with a team. Even though he has no win condition, he's bad. He's trying to keep his team going. Admirable.

speedchuck fucked up. I don't care what he says. He killed Kylemii (not G-Man, dipshit Enrique).

Sorsha is bad too.

Lynch all of them and have a merry Christmas.

But you all won't do that.

You'll hem and haw over other shit.

And lose.
I'm willing to believe this actually. Anything in particular that has led you in this direction?


RIP jack, sloonei and spirityo ugh I dont even know how many civs are left now but it's not looking great.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:51 am
by sabie12
Also wait when did sig come back? I must have missed that

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Night 5]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:02 am
by Tranq
sabie12 wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:44 am
Epignosis wrote: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:53 pm MacDougall has a vested interest because he is bad with a team. Even though he has no win condition, he's bad. He's trying to keep his team going. Admirable.

speedchuck fucked up. I don't care what he says. He killed Kylemii (not G-Man, dipshit Enrique).

Sorsha is bad too.

Lynch all of them and have a merry Christmas.

But you all won't do that.

You'll hem and haw over other shit.

And lose.
I'm willing to believe this actually. Anything in particular that has led you in this direction?
Which parts do you believe?
The part about Mac, the part about speedchuck, the part about Sorsha? All of the parts?

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:13 am
by Sorsha
Epignosis is the Hunger and should be the top lynch candidate for today. If anyone who hasn’t experienced the hunger in a past game here’s how it works.... the hunger chooses a player and gives them the name of someone they must get lynched within a certain amount of days.

Jack is dead because he failed in getting his player lynched.

Not sure who else has been infected but I think you’re free if the Hunger dies before you accomplish your task.

So epi needs to die so those who have been hungered can be freed and so no one else becomes his target.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:15 am
by Tranq
[mention]Dana[/mention] might be the Kraken. Can anyone counterclaim this? I am disappointed, and now i have no reason to trust her.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:18 am
by Tranq
Sorsha wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:13 am Epignosis is the Hunger and should be the top lynch candidate for today. If anyone who hasn’t experienced the hunger in a past game here’s how it works.... the hunger chooses a player and gives them the name of someone they must get lynched within a certain amount of days.

Jack is dead because he failed in getting his player lynched.

Not sure who else has been infected but I think you’re free if the Hunger dies before you accomplish your task.

So epi needs to die so those who have been hungered can be freed and so no one else becomes his target.
You'd lynch him over DDL after sig the lie detector said he was bad? I'd rather lynch a baddie first tbh.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:32 am
by Sorsha
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:18 am
Sorsha wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:13 am Epignosis is the Hunger and should be the top lynch candidate for today. If anyone who hasn’t experienced the hunger in a past game here’s how it works.... the hunger chooses a player and gives them the name of someone they must get lynched within a certain amount of days.

Jack is dead because he failed in getting his player lynched.

Not sure who else has been infected but I think you’re free if the Hunger dies before you accomplish your task.

So epi needs to die so those who have been hungered can be freed and so no one else becomes his target.
You'd lynch him over DDL after sig the lie detector said he was bad? I'd rather lynch a baddie first tbh.
If someone is affected by the hunger right now they might die if their target isn’t lynched, I don’t know how much time they have.

Also, players targeted by the hunger have to get their target lynched whether the target is civ or not. This leads to players making false accusations against other players just to save their own ass. I think it would be better if players could just be speaking their own suspicions and not what they are basically being forced to.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:45 am
by Dana
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:15 am @Dana might be the Kraken. Can anyone counterclaim this? I am disappointed, and now i have no reason to trust her.
I am not the Kraken but I think you might be. Why are you disappointed, because I didn't trust your "meet me in the alley" tactic? Sorry but that seemed a little too sketchy for me. Tell me, how did you know where I was?

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:56 am
by Quin
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:45 am
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:15 am @Dana might be the Kraken. Can anyone counterclaim this? I am disappointed, and now i have no reason to trust her.
I am not the Kraken but I think you might be. Why are you disappointed, because I didn't trust your "meet me in the alley" tactic? Sorry but that seemed a little too sketchy for me. Tell me, how did you know where I was?
dana waited until the day after the question this info wow get yourself a baddie right here folks

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:00 am
by Dana
Quin wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:56 am
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:45 am
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:15 am @Dana might be the Kraken. Can anyone counterclaim this? I am disappointed, and now i have no reason to trust her.
I am not the Kraken but I think you might be. Why are you disappointed, because I didn't trust your "meet me in the alley" tactic? Sorry but that seemed a little too sketchy for me. Tell me, how did you know where I was?
dana waited until the day after the question this info wow get yourself a baddie right here folks
It was a little difficult for me to question things when I couldn't really talk yesterday.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:10 am
by Tranq
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:45 am
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:15 am @Dana might be the Kraken. Can anyone counterclaim this? I am disappointed, and now i have no reason to trust her.
I am not the Kraken but I think you might be. Why are you disappointed, because I didn't trust your "meet me in the alley" tactic? Sorry but that seemed a little too sketchy for me. Tell me, how did you know where I was?
The Kraken wouldn’t have been able to travel to the square i wanted to meet you on. Which is why i asked you to come.
@INH: What are your thoughts on Dana?

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:13 am
by Quin
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:00 am
Quin wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:56 am
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:45 am
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:15 am @Dana might be the Kraken. Can anyone counterclaim this? I am disappointed, and now i have no reason to trust her.
I am not the Kraken but I think you might be. Why are you disappointed, because I didn't trust your "meet me in the alley" tactic? Sorry but that seemed a little too sketchy for me. Tell me, how did you know where I was?
dana waited until the day after the question this info wow get yourself a baddie right here folks
It was a little difficult for me to question things when I couldn't really talk yesterday.
this aint gonna fly when we all know all you had to do yesterday was cough at the end of every post

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:15 am
by Dana
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:10 am
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:45 am
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:15 am @Dana might be the Kraken. Can anyone counterclaim this? I am disappointed, and now i have no reason to trust her.
I am not the Kraken but I think you might be. Why are you disappointed, because I didn't trust your "meet me in the alley" tactic? Sorry but that seemed a little too sketchy for me. Tell me, how did you know where I was?
The Kraken wouldn’t have been able to travel to the square i wanted to meet you on. Which is why i asked you to come.
@INH: What are your thoughts on Dana?
I definitely could have gone to meet you, I just chose not to because I didn't trust you. You also didn't answer my question.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:16 am
by Dana
Quin wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:13 am
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:00 am
Quin wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:56 am
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:45 am
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:15 am @Dana might be the Kraken. Can anyone counterclaim this? I am disappointed, and now i have no reason to trust her.
I am not the Kraken but I think you might be. Why are you disappointed, because I didn't trust your "meet me in the alley" tactic? Sorry but that seemed a little too sketchy for me. Tell me, how did you know where I was?
dana waited until the day after the question this info wow get yourself a baddie right here folks
It was a little difficult for me to question things when I couldn't really talk yesterday.
this aint gonna fly when we all know all you had to do yesterday was cough at the end of every post
That's not all I had to do, maybe you should look a little closer. Not sure if I'm allowed to talk about exactly what happened but there was more to it than that.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:21 am
by Tranq
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:15 am
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:10 am
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:45 am
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:15 am @Dana might be the Kraken. Can anyone counterclaim this? I am disappointed, and now i have no reason to trust her.
I am not the Kraken but I think you might be. Why are you disappointed, because I didn't trust your "meet me in the alley" tactic? Sorry but that seemed a little too sketchy for me. Tell me, how did you know where I was?
The Kraken wouldn’t have been able to travel to the square i wanted to meet you on. Which is why i asked you to come.
@INH: What are your thoughts on Dana?
I definitely could have gone to meet you, I just chose not to because I didn't trust you. You also didn't answer my question.
This is exactly what the Kraken would say though. Enrique also asked you to meet up with me, you don’t trust him either?
And correct, i did not answer your question :)

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:23 am
by Quin
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:16 am
Quin wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:13 am
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:00 am
Quin wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:56 am
Dana wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:45 am
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:15 am @Dana might be the Kraken. Can anyone counterclaim this? I am disappointed, and now i have no reason to trust her.
I am not the Kraken but I think you might be. Why are you disappointed, because I didn't trust your "meet me in the alley" tactic? Sorry but that seemed a little too sketchy for me. Tell me, how did you know where I was?
dana waited until the day after the question this info wow get yourself a baddie right here folks
It was a little difficult for me to question things when I couldn't really talk yesterday.
this aint gonna fly when we all know all you had to do yesterday was cough at the end of every post
That's not all I had to do, maybe you should look a little closer. Not sure if I'm allowed to talk about exactly what happened but there was more to it than that.
10 words max per post. ez.

ball's in your court now, civs.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:54 am
by MacDougall
Does being the kraken mean she is bad?

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Night 5]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:35 am
by sabie12
Tranq wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:02 am
sabie12 wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:44 am
Epignosis wrote: Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:53 pm MacDougall has a vested interest because he is bad with a team. Even though he has no win condition, he's bad. He's trying to keep his team going. Admirable.

speedchuck fucked up. I don't care what he says. He killed Kylemii (not G-Man, dipshit Enrique).

Sorsha is bad too.

Lynch all of them and have a merry Christmas.

But you all won't do that.

You'll hem and haw over other shit.

And lose.
I'm willing to believe this actually. Anything in particular that has led you in this direction?
Which parts do you believe?
The part about Mac, the part about speedchuck, the part about Sorsha? All of the parts?
I'm willing to listen to a case on them if he has one. I dont read any of them super strongly either way so I'm wondering what led epi to this conclusion. I know speed is one of the suspects in targeting DH. mac has been dsrknessed which could go either way and sorsha has not really participated much until just now but if epi has more info or noticed something that was missed he can feel free to share and I would take it onto consideration.

Sorsha wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:13 am Epignosis is the Hunger and should be the top lynch candidate for today. If anyone who hasn’t experienced the hunger in a past game here’s how it works.... the hunger chooses a player and gives them the name of someone they must get lynched within a certain amount of days.

Jack is dead because he failed in getting his player lynched.

Not sure who else has been infected but I think you’re free if the Hunger dies before you accomplish your task.

So epi needs to die so those who have been hungered can be freed and so no one else becomes his target.

Why do you think this? Didn't jack want sig lynched and then sig got lynched?




And just another thought Sig said he thought DDL could be mafia or 3p so if he is actually back I'm wondering if he's allowed to say what the statement was that he lie detected.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:56 am
by colonialbob
If we don't lynch DDL today I am going to be literally angry with rage.

Sabie making a good case why we shouldn't trust sig's info tho

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:57 am
by colonialbob
(prediction: epi quotes the above post and says "ACTUAL INFO" because he is a dingus)

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:08 am
by S~V~S
I don't believe the parts about Mac, [mention]Epignosis[/mention] , and if you are right, I am an idiot and people are laughing at me RIGHT THIS SECOND. I do, however, think you have some good points otherwise. Bad Sorsha always has a slow start, and I agree re Speedchucks RIPs.

This whole alliance thing is making me tense though because I can't say I trust all of the people in the circle of trust.

I am so far trusting in Sigs info as Sloonei flipped civ, I am civ. I am conflicted about Sabie, but will go with it for now.

I think G Man was the Hollow Man, I had another person in the yin/yang role, and I am not sure how I could be wrong about it, although anything is possible. I have to catch up a bit, I just checked my mentions and skimmed. Sorry about last night (heh) I had a last minute movie night invite.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] I have no interest in becoming the heir to any thing, much less some sort of townie leadership. I am only caught up by the skin on my teeth and go off on tangents, I am the worst possible town leader. You're freaking me out a bit. If you are bad, as Epi says, that post was the closest I came to believeing it.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:12 am
by ColinIsCool
[VOTE: CONFIRMED SCUM DDL] aubergine

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:22 am
by sabie12
colonialbob wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:56 am If we don't lynch DDL today I am going to be literally angry with rage.

Sabie making a good case why we shouldn't trust sig's info tho
Not saying not to trust sig info more like how do we take it? With me svs and sloonei he said confirmed civ which makes sense. But then he didnt say he knows for sure ddl is bad just that hes not a civ so he could be an indie then maybe. I was just wondering if that makes a difference.

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:30 am
by Dragon D. Luffy
I still don't trust Sig's result.

[VOTE: Sig] aubergine

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:32 am
by colonialbob
sabie12 wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:22 am
colonialbob wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:56 am If we don't lynch DDL today I am going to be literally angry with rage.

Sabie making a good case why we shouldn't trust sig's info tho
Not saying not to trust sig info more like how do we take it? With me svs and sloonei he said confirmed civ which makes sense. But then he didnt say he knows for sure ddl is bad just that hes not a civ so he could be an indie then maybe. I was just wondering if that makes a difference.
DDL posted "I am a civ"

Sig says "nope that's a lie"

DDL does not say "yo I'm Indy I can help town don't lynch me bro" but "nuh-uh I'm civ"

He's maf fam

Re: Mafia: A World Asunder - GAME THREAD [Day 6]

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:34 am
by Dragon D. Luffy
Hey folks I wonder what happens if we lynch Sig again.

He's appearing in both the poll and the list of living players.