Fargo Mafia [Game Ends]

[BoKnows]

I hate that explanation

[Hally]

but what did you mean by “scummy perspective”?

[Long Con]

I hate that explanation

Why?

[Long Con]

but what did you mean by “scummy perspective”?

The perspective of the scummy players... looking around from their low place at the other adjacent players in the list. To them, Sloonei is towncore. Untouchable, maybe.

[Hally]

hrm. okay. i’m not quite sure i get it but it might be a me problem

[BoKnows]

I hate that explanation

Why?

"I was picturing lining up the players in a rainbow list order and looking at him. When I stand so I see other suspicious POE-type players around him, Sloonei looks like he belongs in the towncore. But if I move to the side and see him hanging out with other towncore players, he stands out as "he's the one"."

You mention nothing about looking at Sloonei from a scums persepective for one. And the second half (highlighted) makes no sense to me. You didn't answer the question and presented new ones.

[Sloonei]

ted & marmot's excellent adventure

Spoiler: show

I know nothing about this show. Am I at a disadvantage?

samesies

just play werewolf

Nothing at all.

A big random Marmot ISO in which he slaps a "seems like a villager" read on him despite leaving several questions and failing to elaborate on any of the favorable points he awarded. Based on my personal experience with wolf ted, it is not impossible for him to make a post like this as Marmot's partner. That does not need to have been the case. But it does not help that I don't love the analysis itself.

Spoiler: show

alison - did you post the marmot case anywhere?

I suspect Marmot based on one interaction.

@KZA why are you so staunch in your townread of Sloonei?

I don't think I have been? I'm not worried about him right now so no reason to redact the read anyway

Maybe that wasn't the right word. I saw you called him town multiple times, but I couldn't find an explanation before.

His early case on Alison seemed like a reasonable Sloonei thought even if I didn't really agree with it

This is a reasonable KZA thought.

This interaction markets itself as being two townies doing solving and analyzing each other. However reading through it I can't find any evidence that either of them genuinely care about exposing the other's alignments. It's a bunch of play-acting and blowing smoke up town's asses.

got it

and i'm fine with a kza vote since i had a few thoughts on that slot myself early on

Ted asks Alison to explain the case for Marmot.
Alison explains the case for Marmot.
Ted expresses appreciation as he looks over the case.
Ted affirms that he's willing to vote for KZA.

Spoiler: show

no, but for real, apart from alison's explanation, why are people voting marmot?

"Apart from that one argument I willfully ignored, why are you all voting for this mafioso?"


Oh this one's for @Strawhenge! I'm about to sirengif. Y'all ready for a sirengif? Flashing light warning, so don't click if you've got sensitivity to that stuff:

Spoiler: show

Why am I sirengifing, you ask? Well, check this out:

Spoiler: show

no, but for real, apart from alison's explanation, why are people voting marmot?

What in the actual fuck?

Why do you give the faintest shit?

because he was one of my few isos that i've looked into and i came up with a slight town read and just don't see any reason to vote for him

are you finding it unreasonable?

No not at all quite reasonable keep at it.

if you're trolling : how is it unreasonable?

if you're not trolling : reaction tests don't work on me

The mindset required for you to take issue with that wagon requires the following steps.

1. Need to ISO Marmot
2. Discovery that he is slightly townie
3. Observation that he has a wagon
4. Recognisation that it requires flagging

My issue is in point 3 and 4.

Problem the first. SPF and Michelle are not present to answer you. That is very apparent. So nobody currently wagoning rodent boy can even answer. Which makes your question an effort in posturing.

Problem the second. Who cares about someone having a 2 vote wagon containing people that may not even be up to date on the haps in a composition where there are multiple wagons greater than said number?

because he's being voted by people that usually have good reasons for votes and i wanna see what those reasons are

which is why i'm asking about it

The first post reads like a soft protest against the votes on Marmot. "This person is town, you shouldn't be voting for him!" Then Mac roughs him up a bit, questions his intentions, and Ted's new story becomes "I am intrigued by the votes because I trust the players voting for him." I get wildly different impressions from these two explanations of ted's interest in the Marmot wagon. I call shenanigans. @tedxtr, you stand accused of shenanigans. How do you plead?

Anyway uh there's still a good chunk of ted iso left for me to sift through. Moving along...

Spoiler: show

marmot - hasn't done much

ted - has motly slanked this game and when he makes reads, he's lock mafia because he cares about his single read

tsp - has been a wildcard and his posts and arguments have been confusing


these are the top wagons with reasons from alison's big post

An inadequate summary of the wagons.

Spoiler: show

Based on all these points I don't think Syndicate D1s are lazy or clout based.

i've just quoted 3 of your reasons for wolves and 2 of them contain slanking

It isn't lazy to chop "slankers" when a wealth of rationale has been provided to support the choice by various different people.

It is lazy to decline to chop "slankers" merely because they are "slankers".

i've been asking for this wealth of rationale on at least one wagon for quite a bit and nobody is able to write anything that's concrete

for example : marmot

Ted is playing some elite defense here on Marmot's behalf.

Spoiler: show

the only reply i got for marmot was from alison stating he had a weird interaction with kza

Yeah ted, and you responded to that by saying "Good point, let's vote for kza."

Spoiler: show

spf, why is marmot scum?

i struggle to believe that marmot believes the stuff that he has been saying. his reads lack a certain level of conviction that i would expect marmot to have if he was playing from a villager mindset.

marmot constantly floated tutuu as one of his number one suspects throughout the early-game (calling her an openwolf at one point), but when he was asked to go into more detail about his scumread on tutuu, he said this:

@Marmot could you elaborate on those nanook and tutuu reads?

Tutuu's been an active presence in the thread, but changing her reads on a whim.

i find it difficult to believe that marmot carried this underlying suspicion about tutuu throughout the entirety of the game, and was only able to provide one short sentence explaining his scumread on her when he was prompted to. it concerns me even more that marmot voted for tutuu shortly after making this post. it gives me the impression that marmot does not particularly care about the accuracy of his read on tutuu and is pushing on her moreso for aesthetics sake

there were several moments where i felt that marmot outed reads/thoughts that felt ingenuine. i did not like his opinion about me and tutuu on https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 34#p761634. i did not like the false bravado on https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 75#p762175.

i am not confident about marmot being a wolf, but i find him wolfy

thanks, this is at the very least reasonable and it's not based on slank!

for example : marmot

Rationale external to Marmot --> a pile of people have seemed town, removing them from candidacy

Rationale relating directly to Marmot --> degree of seriousness of his play parallels amount of suspicion presently heaped upon him; currently showing zero concern for the game state despite reading a bunch of POE'd players as town; griping with my generic cheerleader post as if it's remarkable; contributed to an environment of chaos with one of his goofy self-votes (i.e. eagerly participating in a state that I view as anti-town while not eagerly participating so much when the thread is healthier); beefing with SPF over adverbs as if Marmot is an adverb person

Probably not comprehensive

thanks x2 ; i believe the strongest reason is the showing zero concern with a PoE that's upside down from thread consensus

do you think wolf!marmot is likely to go for the "post the weakest reasons in order to go at people that are active and considered town"?

i know it seems like a loaded question, but realistically, that's what I feel like he's done

do you think it's a fake approach designed...to get town read on derpiness?

Ted gets two fairly concrete cases against Ted. He responds to the first with no input. He responds to the second by asking a question that is still vaguely pro-marmot, but at least is trending toward the potential for Marmot suspicion. But even if ted is Marmot's teammate trying to save him, he's handcuffed at this point. He's been begging for people to explain why Marmot is getting votes, and now two trusted, vocal town players have made it impossible for him to continue to act like there isn't a reasonable case against him. And we are getting to a point in the day where bussing Marmot might be becoming more of a necessity.

Spoiler: show

i think i'll be voting marmot over al

[VOTE: Marmot ] aubergine

shrug

These posts came 9 and 2 minutes before the deadline respectively. Ted offered no comment on either Marmot or al_sama in between this pair of posts and the previous exchange with Jay about the Marmot case. I don't know exactly how the wagons looked as the final hours/minutes unfolded, but this vote for Marmot looks like it was inevitable by the time ted came around to it. I award him zero points for it.

I can easily see Ted on the Kansas City Chiefs. This ISO was bad.

[Long Con]

I think I made iit too physical.

[Long Con]

OK! I have it. Just a sec.

[Long Con]

Scummy perspective:

Tony
TSP
fingersplints
AL_sama
Long Con (I know what you think of me )
Sloonei

Who's the towncore of the list? I think it's obviously Sloonei.

But from the other perspective:

Alison
Hally
Oddmerta
Strawhenge
Sloonei
Who's the wolf? I say Sloonei.

That's probably the best I can do to clarify.

[Sloonei]

I think I get what LC is saying about me. I think in contemporary mafia parlance, he's saying I'd be a deepwolf candidate. Relative to the main POE pool, I am clearly town. But relative to the rest of the "towncore", I am the odd one out for him.

[Hally]

i get it now i think. it was just worded confusingly at first. thanks lc

[Sloonei]

Scummy perspective:

Tony
TSP
fingersplints
AL_sama
Long Con (I know what you think of me )
Sloonei

Who's the towncore of the list? I think it's obviously Sloonei.

But from the other perspective:

Alison
Hally
Oddmerta
Strawhenge
Sloonei
Who's the wolf? I say Sloonei.

That's probably the best I can do to clarify.

boom goes the dynamite

[Oddmerta]

[VOTE: tedxtr] aubergine

@Hally do not frame it as mech in this situation

[BoKnows]

Scummy perspective:

Tony
TSP
fingersplints
AL_sama
Long Con (I know what you think of me )
Sloonei

Who's the towncore of the list? I think it's obviously Sloonei.

But from the other perspective:

Alison
Hally
Oddmerta
Strawhenge
Sloonei
Who's the wolf? I say Sloonei.

That's probably the best I can do to clarify.

Okay I understand what you mean now. Still not sold you came up with the original thought from a town POV but that just might be me.

[Hally]

and yes sloonei, we are going to eject ted into the stratosphere. glad you’re on board

[Sloonei]

So like, ted and nanook for KC Mafia? Y/N?

[Hally]

So like, ted and nanook for KC Mafia? Y/N?

seems as good a guess as any

[BoKnows]

So like, ted and nanook for KC Mafia? Y/N?

Yes

[BoKnows]

[VOTE: NANOOK] aubergine

[Oddmerta]

If you aren't voring ted today I will scum read you

[Long Con]

LOL

My scummy list began with Tony and TSP. I meant one of the T's to be ted.

This always happened back in the day with Tranq and Turnip Head ( ) for me.

[BoKnows]

If you aren't voring ted today I will scum read you

bowser ball has spoken

[Sloonei]

LOL

My scummy list began with Tony and TSP. I meant one of the T's to be ted.

This always happened back in the day with Tranq and Turnip Head ( ) for me.

I very nearly made this exact mixup a couple of times while working on these ISOs.

[Sloonei]

If you aren't voring ted today I will scum read you

Ted bad, yeah. Who else?

[Oddmerta]

If you aren't voring ted today I will scum read you

Ted bad, yeah. Who else?

You

[Sloonei]

did you guys really just let me do isos til 11:30?

[Sloonei]

If you aren't voring ted today I will scum read you

Ted bad, yeah. Who else?

You

Try again.

[BoKnows]

did you guys really just let me do isos til 11:30?

you can take a break now

[Sloonei]

did you guys really just let me do isos til 11:30?

you can take a break now

One more.

[BoKnows]

did you guys really just let me do isos til 11:30?

you can take a break now

One more.

what's alison paying you?

[Oddmerta]

If you aren't voring ted today I will scum read you

Ted bad, yeah. Who else?

You

Try again.

You but wearing a hat

[BoKnows]

If you aren't voring ted today I will scum read you

Ted bad, yeah. Who else?

You

Try again.

You but wearing a hat

reads?

[Sloonei]

LC & Marmot

[VOTE: marmot] aubergine

Self-voting is what GoC marmot did. Should i be concerned?

Marmot has been self-voting for years.

This is not untrue. A bit concerned that it took this long to get to a Marmotmention anywhere in LC's ISO, though.

Marmot's name is incidentally present in this post. On the one hand, it can be called a bad look that LC rejects the idea of a Marmot save taking place, but then he dives right into offering reads on every player participating in the relevant wagon anyway, so I restore the points that were removed.

Uh whoa holy shit, that appears to be it for Marmot mentions on Day 1. Wow. LC admits that there is not much in his favor here. Hm. I guess I'll need to take a more comprehensive look at what LC was doing on Day 1 to really comment here. The lack of Marmot content is not the best, but... you'd think he'd have more to say if Marmot was a teammate. Or not. Because this is LC.

I maintain that Nanook and Ted each look worse in relation to Marmot. I have also begun to develop a slight town read on LC over the past couple hours of real time interactions, but that's vague and not fully formed.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I have a claim that saves me but I really don't want to make it

So go do something better

[Strawhenge]

Oh this one's for @Strawhenge! I'm about to sirengif.

But anyway, dang that ISO on ted doesn't look good. I look forward to how he responds.

[Sloonei]

did you guys really just let me do isos til 11:30?

you can take a break now

One more.

what's alison paying you?

$400,000

[Sloonei]

If you aren't voring ted today I will scum read you

Ted bad, yeah. Who else?

You

Try again.

You but wearing a hat

lol

odd, if you even just glance at the last couple of pages (you don't even need to read that closely!) i think you should come to a different conclusion.

[KZA]

I also felt vibes towniness from LC

[KZA]

I have a claim that saves me but I really don't want to make it

So go do something better

deal

[Hally]

If you aren't voring ted today I will scum read you

Ted bad, yeah. Who else?

You

why?

[Sloonei]

If you aren't voring ted today I will scum read you

Ted bad, yeah. Who else?

You

why?

I want Sloonei to be scum because I'm town and I want to beat the world champion

[Hally]

ah, i see

[KZA]

Odd will scumread anyone not voting Ted as he claimed he would

[Sloonei]

ah, i see

It feels like we have a pretty good read on the Kansas City Mafia. I'll be very surprised if it turns out none of our shortlisted POE players are on that team.

But that presumably leaves another mafia faction that we've left mostly untouched to this point. Do you have any candidates for that team? And how could we go about finding them before it's too late? I do not want to abandon the KC hunt, but I don't want to backburner [Other Team] at the same time.

[Hally]

I have a claim that saves me but I really don't want to make it

So go do something better

noted. think we’re probably killing ted today anyway

[Strawhenge]

I want Sloonei to be scum because I'm town and I want to beat the world champion

Okay, @Oddmerta, I know how tempting it is to try to take down a notoriously talented player; in past games I'd get myself all sorts of riled up at the thought of defeating Jay in a game of wits. But seriously now, do you have any other reason to suspect Sloonei other than the fact that he's Sloonei?

[Sloonei]

I want Sloonei to be scum because I'm town and I want to beat the world champion

Okay, @Oddmerta, I know how tempting it is to try to take down a notoriously talented player; in past games I'd get myself all sorts of riled up at the thought of defeating Jay in a game of wits. But seriously now, do you have any other reason to suspect Sloonei other than the fact that he's Sloonei?

How are you feeling about the game now that it's unfolded a bit more and you've been comfortably perched on a townie pedestal?

[Strawhenge]

I want Sloonei to be scum because I'm town and I want to beat the world champion

Okay, @Oddmerta, I know how tempting it is to try to take down a notoriously talented player; in past games I'd get myself all sorts of riled up at the thought of defeating Jay in a game of wits. But seriously now, do you have any other reason to suspect Sloonei other than the fact that he's Sloonei?

How are you feeling about the game now that it's unfolded a bit more and you've been comfortably perched on a townie pedestal?

Echoing what you said here, I'm hopeful about the KC Mafia and nervous about the other team. I'm exactly of two minds when it comes to feeling hopeful or nervous about Alison's trooper claim. Her claim, itself, feels believable—but I'm nervous about how the theoretical anti-town troopers will use their powers, and I'm nervous about trooper claims.

Overall I'm just nervous about multiball because I'm not experienced with it, and I'm a little overwhelmed because my attention span isn't wide enough to read every player with equal depth and detail.

[Strawhenge]

Updated rainbow list:

Top Blokes; Good Eggs:
Strawhenge

Townreads:
Alison
Hally

Town leans:
falcon
Sloonei

Town-lean leans:
Oddmerta (listed here based on currently believing the trooper claims)
KZA (same as above)
SPF
Michelle
fingersplints
BoKnows (notably turned me around from scumreading him in the past day phase)

True neutral:
Dom (someone who has him in your POE, please tell me why; for me there's just nothing to go on other than he really didn't want to catch up on the thread, then bounced)

Scum-lean leans:
Esooa (has been looking a little better, but I admittedly need to take a closer look)
JPIC (same as above)

Scum leans:
nanook (another one I need to look more closely at, but based on others' posts, doesn't look great)

Scumreads:
tedxtr (his posts regarding Marmot, provided by Sloonei, make him look pretty bad)
AL_sama (still not a fan of his D1 behavior)
TSP (same, nor am I fan of his D2 behavior, but I need to ISO him at some point)
Long Con (see: my ISO on him and his reactions to it)