Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Epignosis]

Civilian roles don't matter, zeek. I don't know if you saw my massive write up about Chris, but I stand by it.

The one about the Cyber role checker voting for him?

How don't civs matter? Every civ matters, from the Doctor to Wilf.

I did not say "civilians don't matter." I said, "civilian roles don't matter." When there is a recruiter involved, the role is no longer indicative of alignment.

And no, that wasn't the massive write up.

[Chris]

Let me ask you guys this.

If a lynched Bass turns up as the role blocker, does that give my Cyber case any more credence?

[Marmot]

Good reason. Elo.

Ignoring basic evidence... bad reason.


@ MM: I'm not recruited either. If you think about it, who the fuck would ever want to recruit me? I'm like a lightening rod for trouble...



zeek... you've never played with me before. To be honest, I was waiting for people to start accusing me of not being me.

I call out odd shit, and if I think I'm right, I am VERY hard to convince otherwise. If I didn't call out keys for that odd behavior, and trying to discredit my work, it would have looked very out of place.

Also, I'm still curious why keys was trying to discredit my Cyber case...

[zeek]

Epig - I get you now. I'll go back and find your big post on Chris.

Chris - If Bass is Cyber, maybe. But I don't see Epig in that group at all.

[Chris]

I guess...

But it's true.

Granted, its the first time playing with you, but would you recruit me?

I've been targeted for an NK twice, and I've been getting votes for 3 lynches now.


I wouldn't recruit me...

[Chris]

That was to MM.

[Marmot]

I guess...

But it's true.

Granted, its the first time playing with you, but would you recruit me?

I've been targeted for an NK twice, and I've been getting votes for 3 lynches now.


I wouldn't recruit me...

You were quiet for the first few days. Why not?

[Epignosis]

Epig - I get you now. I'll go back and find your big post on Chris.

Chris - If Bass is Cyber, maybe. But I don't see Epig in that group at all.

Link.

Sorry, zeek- should have done that for you.

[zeek]

Epig - I get you now. I'll go back and find your big post on Chris.

Chris - If Bass is Cyber, maybe. But I don't see Epig in that group at all.

Link.

Sorry, zeek- should have done that for you.

I just read it, its very compelling. I've been back and forth on him all gave, so I dunno. God, my instincts have been dreadful this game

[Chris]

I guess...

But it's true.

Granted, its the first time playing with you, but would you recruit me?

I've been targeted for an NK twice, and I've been getting votes for 3 lynches now.


I wouldn't recruit me...

You were quiet for the first few days. Why not?

You and Roxy were recruited, right?

I'm assuming that was what happened while I was being quiet for the first few days.

[Chris]

Look. I can assure everyone these facts.

A: I am civ.

B: I am not recruited

C: I will not die if lynched.

[zeek]

The longer the game goes on, the harder it'll be to determine the difference between Jack and the Master.

[Chris]

That is an unfortunate truth I had not realized until just now.

[zeek]

And the lead Cyberman for that matter, based on NKs.

[Chris]

Well, not really.

If we get to day 13, and my protection is used up in the meantime, if I survived another kill after night 12, I'd HAVE to be Jack, right?


Linki: Well, not for me though. Cybers tried to kill me, and I'm (hopefully) helping get the entire team killed.

[Chris]

LOL, I'll go as far to say that if we get to the day 12 lynch, and my kill protect isn't used, go ahead in lynch me.

The Cyber Controller can't do that shit.

Not really, don't lynch me please.

[zeek]

The Master might have all 3 lives left though! I'm not voting for you though, Chris, but Epig did have some good points.

This is so confusing, I think every lynch is going to be hard.

[keys56000000000]

[quote="MovingPictures07"]In fact, I will eat a hat if Dana or S~V~S are bad. Same with zeek and keys, but to a slightly lesser extent.

Based on thread reads and a process of elimination, I don't really think Gotrees or DFaraday are bad right now either, but with regards to those I could be wrong.

I do think we're on the right track to catch a Cyberman with Sabie's reveal, and the only leads as to The Master which I believe are likely are either Chris or BR, so we need more evidence there, as it could be someone else even. And assuming there is a single recruiter, which I think is likely, I just don't know who it could be, but I think we can get a better idea by pooling all of our information together and eliminating people from the possible pool. However, we might need first need more insight into what kind of recruiter dynamic this person even has; I would assume over the course of 8 nights there will have been more than only Roxy as a recruit, so if only we could find another recruit, that would be nice. Given Sabie was the role checker and some things that have gone down, it is possible we will find a Cyberman who could flip recruited, I think. If so, or even if not, that should give more direction. Thoughts?

This is the line that stuck out to me. I've seen him defend Dana like he is here, but I've never seen him defend SVS or keys like this before.

This is day 8.

I suspect MP was recruited on night 7, the day he was killed. When he came back on day 8, he felt different.


Here's what I think, take it or leave it.

I think SVS is the recruiter. I think she got to recruit on odd nights.

I think she recruited Roxy on day 1. (Makes sense, they're very good friends)

I think she recruited keys on night 3. (I have some slight concern he is The Master based on my theories lining up with The Master killing people who would help the recruiter with end game. Ex: I think Daisy was a Dalek, and Roxy was recruited. In order to get the Dalek kill for the recruiter, Daisy had to be killed. My opinion. Deal with it. I have over evidence of Daisy being bad)

I think she recruited MM on night 5.

And I think, after so much hinting and other evidence, SVS recruited MP, The Doctor, on night 7.

I think there's been a push for keys to come in here and discredit my work on Snow, Bass and Epig, because now that SVS doesn't have the Dalek kill, she wants the CyberMan kill. I think that's why keys came in here saying that my work wasn't what got Sabie. If I'm right, I named the Cyber crew, and the recruiter wants them. Why... its more than just their kill. If the Cyber Head has found the Body ( I think he did) then they've got votes too.

They're setting up their end game. If she has The Master, then she just needs to get the Cyber kill recruited, then have more recruited players than civs, and it's game over.

Oh yeah, The Master killed MP on night 7 knowing that he'd come back, and it would buy MP the best civvie cred ever, allowing him to gain the trust of others to follow his lead.

It's brilliant actually...

And with keys being recruited too... it would certainly explain keys suddenly saying that he knew MP was good after he was killed. It's setting him up to be able to side with MP once he comes back.

I mean, does anyone really believe that keys was keeping the pressure on MP because he KNEW MP was The Doctor, and that keys' suspicion would help keep MP safe??


Lastly, I'm of the hope that recruited players return to their previous win conditions, and have to treat any info gained the same way you'd treat a role check. So I'd like to lynch SVS, not keys or MP. (Unless keys IS The Master)

If not SVS, I want to lynch Bass or Snow Dog.[/quote]

I'm still a few pages back, but oh man, I had to quote this. Chirs, you are one wacky motherfucker. Fucking wake up and smell the coffee.

[Chris]

Of course Epig had some good points about me. He's an excellent mafia player who is very smart. And he's an English teach, so he OBVIOUSLY has a way with words. He knows exactly how to twist things to make them look how he wants it to. That's when he's a baddie... When he's a civ, he's one of the best baddie hunters out there. Who has he gotten so far? Rico? That's a bad percentage for Epig...

And then I'm an passionate player who sometimes speaks before he thinks, who puts his thoughts out in the thread.

He had ammo.

Honestly, I never even read his case because I know what I am. (Non recruited civ) But I'm sure some or a good portion of his case revolves around me shifting suspicion or fear mongering or something like that.



Linki @ keys: Thanks man...

[Chris]

Oh, Dom, I forgot, you asked why I thought that recruited go back to their original won conditions... (or was it that I thought that BTSC is lost if recruited)

Whichever one, I guess it's what I would think would happen. And it's what I'd hope would happen in regards to the win conditions of the recruited.

[keys56000000000]

I'm glad this isn't real life, because there are some serious liabilities on the civilian team and I'm afraid they're going to get us all killed. Get your socks and soap bars, people.

[Chris]

Why do you say that keys?

We're about to lynch the 2nd member of the Cyber team...

[Marmot]

I'm glad this isn't real life, because there are some serious liabilities on the civilian team and I'm afraid they're going to get us all killed. Get your socks and soap bars, people.

My sock is working on Phd stuff right now...

[birdwithteeth11]

HOSTS:

Does a player with BTSC lose that BTSC if they are recruited? Specifically, did Roxy lose her BTSC with the Daleks when she got recruited?

I've been fairly helpful and honest so far. I've answered quite a few questions. Almost every questions I've been asked, in fact.

This one I shall answer a bit differently though.

[keys56000000000]

Why do you say that keys?

We're about to lynch the 2nd member of the Cyber team...

I hope we are. Pardon me for not sharing your confidence. I have a feeling you would be similarly confident were we about to lynch MP, or SVS, or indeed, myself.

[Chris]

That's not true at all.

I specifically said I did not want to lynch MP.

[Dom]

zeek, do you think I wanted to tip my hand to SVS, a player who I have the utmost respect for as a mafia player?
No.
I was tossing bullshit so they didn't know what I was working on.
Besides, I"m getting some troubling feedback from the idea of SVS as the recruiter, so I've reconsidering.
MM, wait.
You are very confused. And for me to explain enough to clear it up for you would require for me to out my role. But since you already have, and I don't think anyone is being confused by my bad vagueness, allow me to explain why you're wrong, and Epig will jump on anything.
I did not start with any protections. Which was why I was laying low. Then I got my first one on NIGHT 4. Then on night 6, I was double targeted for NKs. Strax's failed because I am civ. The Cyber kill failed because it was passed night 4.
Then on night 8, I was worried becauseNIGHT EIGHT DIDN'T HAPPEN YET.
And that's why I won't be lynched today.

HOLY LINKI!

I have such a hard time, after reading this, thinking you're a civilian.
You yelled at keys for feigning suspicion.
You threw bullshit where?
What the hell????

And again, just because I post about someone, it doesn't mean that I'm accusing them.

As for suspecting people, I suspect every single one of you mother fuckers with a recruiter role on board.

But anyway, this is why I was saying that I can't put thoughts out on posts, because people try to use them against me.

This isn't the first time I've heard "Chris, you suspect everyone".

I din't suspect it'll be the last either.

So... maybe... just... maybe... you could... you know... change behavior if you don't like its outcomes?

Zeek, having a civilian role is nice-- but you could be recruited.

Bit pointless saying this really, anyone could be.

That's the point.

Good reason. Elo.

Ignoring basic evidence... bad reason.


@ MM: I'm not recruited either. If you think about it, who the fuck would ever want to recruit me? I'm like a lightening rod for trouble...

I direct you to the wine in front of me, sir.

zeek... you've never played with me before. To be honest, I was waiting for people to start accusing me of not being me.

I call out odd shit, and if I think I'm right, I am VERY hard to convince otherwise. If I didn't call out keys for that odd behavior, and trying to discredit my work, it would have looked very out of place.

Also, I'm still curious why keys was trying to discredit my Cyber case...

So you only called keys out because it would have looked odd if you hadn't?

[Chris]

HOSTS:

Does a player with BTSC lose that BTSC if they are recruited? Specifically, did Roxy lose her BTSC with the Daleks when she got recruited?

I've been fairly helpful and honest so far. I've answered quite a few questions. Almost every questions I've been asked, in fact.

This one I shall answer a bit differently though.

I didn't really think yo'd answer that one...

But there were more!

WE DEMAND ANSWERS!!

[keys56000000000]

Dom, I don't remember being yelled at by Chris. I remember him finding me "odd" for "discrediting" his case/s, some other stuff. Whatever it was, I don't think it was for feigning suspicion. I do remember it seeming a bit harsh since I've been trying to keep the sonfabitch alive!

[Dom]

Dom, I don't remember being yelled at by Chris. I remember him finding me "odd" for "discrediting" his case/s, some other stuff. Whatever it was, I don't think it was for feigning suspicion. I do remember it seeming a bit harsh since I've been trying to keep the sonfabitch alive!

I remember earlier in the game someone faked a suspicion of someone for awhile... I thought you had faked a suspicion of MP and Chris didn't like that?
Am I remembering this incorrectly?

[keys56000000000]

Dom, I don't remember being yelled at by Chris. I remember him finding me "odd" for "discrediting" his case/s, some other stuff. Whatever it was, I don't think it was for feigning suspicion. I do remember it seeming a bit harsh since I've been trying to keep the sonfabitch alive!

I remember earlier in the game someone faked a suspicion of someone for awhile... I thought you had faked a suspicion of MP and Chris didn't like that?
Am I remembering this incorrectly?

I did, I just don't remember getting yelled at for it by Chris. Idk. No offense to Chris but I've been skimming his posts for a while. There's only so much wacky speculation a guy can read in one sitting.

[Chris]

zeek, do you think I wanted to tip my hand to SVS, a player who I have the utmost respect for as a mafia player?
No.
I was tossing bullshit so they didn't know what I was working on.
Besides, I"m getting some troubling feedback from the idea of SVS as the recruiter, so I've reconsidering.
MM, wait.
You are very confused. And for me to explain enough to clear it up for you would require for me to out my role. But since you already have, and I don't think anyone is being confused by my bad vagueness, allow me to explain why you're wrong, and Epig will jump on anything.
I did not start with any protections. Which was why I was laying low. Then I got my first one on NIGHT 4. Then on night 6, I was double targeted for NKs. Strax's failed because I am civ. The Cyber kill failed because it was passed night 4.
Then on night 8, I was worried becauseNIGHT EIGHT DIDN'T HAPPEN YET.
And that's why I won't be lynched today.

HOLY LINKI!

I have such a hard time, after reading this, thinking you're a civilian. That's ok. I'm not THAT concerned what you think of me. You ALWAYS think I'm bad.
You yelled at keys for feigning suspicion. I what? Oh, you mean where he suspected MP since the beginning of the game, and then after he dies, keys knew MP was good? Is that the one you're referring to? That's just a bit different than not showing your hand, or backing off for a rel life day or two, to hide your suspicions. keys claims he did it to help keep MP from being targeted... however that works.
You threw bullshit where? When I said that I thought juliets, Dana or Elo could be the recruiter. I had to say something... so that sounded good.
What the hell???? (I'm not really sure how to answer this one, but I don't want you saying that I don't answer you questions, so I'll give it a go.) I'm sorry you don't believe what I'm saying?

And again, just because I post about someone, it doesn't mean that I'm accusing them.

As for suspecting people, I suspect every single one of you mother fuckers with a recruiter role on board.

But anyway, this is why I was saying that I can't put thoughts out on posts, because people try to use them against me.

This isn't the first time I've heard "Chris, you suspect everyone".

I din't suspect it'll be the last either.

So... maybe... just... maybe... you could... you know... change behavior if you don't like its outcomes? Or... maybe.. I ... play... how... ever...the .... fuck.. I ... want?

Zeek, having a civilian role is nice-- but you could be recruited.

Bit pointless saying this really, anyone could be.

That's the point.

Good reason. Elo.

Ignoring basic evidence... bad reason.


@ MM: I'm not recruited either. If you think about it, who the fuck would ever want to recruit me? I'm like a lightening rod for trouble...

I direct you to the wine in front of me, sir.

zeek... you've never played with me before. To be honest, I was waiting for people to start accusing me of not being me.

I call out odd shit, and if I think I'm right, I am VERY hard to convince otherwise. If I didn't call out keys for that odd behavior, and trying to discredit my work, it would have looked very out of place.

Also, I'm still curious why keys was trying to discredit my Cyber case...

So you only called keys out because it would have looked odd if you hadn't? Basically, yes. I mean, keys was acting odd. And I considered not calling him out for it. But then I decided that if I hadn't, someone would think it was odd. So I did...

Dom, believe me, don't believe me. I can't change your mind. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the harder I try to change your mind, the less you'd be inclined to believe me.

If you think I'm bad, if you think I'm The Master, if you think I'm recruited... then vote for me.

There's not much more for me to say than that... this happens in every game I play with you.

[Chris]

I think you responded to the "I wouldn't be recruited" statement I made....

I've never been recruited yet... so there's that.

[Chris]

As a matter of fact, in "Recruitment mafia", I was the last or second to last player recruited.

LC & BR claim it's not a player picked thing, but I think they're big fat liars.

[Chris]

2 hours left for the poll.

I sure hope we get some more answers before the poll ends.

[Chris]

Here's another one.

HOSTS:

If Strax still had no civ kills going on, and targeted Rory, would that use up Rory's protection? Or would he still have it because Strax can't kill a civ?

[zeek]

I'm gonna go and place my vote on Bass, for the illogical Hedge-MM recruitment idea he's been pushing. Just realised I haven't done so already.

[nijuukyugou]

I'm voting for Chris today. Niju, I see you haven't voted yet...what are your thoughts?

Catching up...ugh. I knew I shouldn't have left it to tonight, but I wanted to read Harry Potter and play Sporcle instead last night :P

As of right now, I'm confused about why so many people are voting Bass (mostly because I haven't caught up), so I'm gonna try to figure that out. And while I said I trusted Chris a few days ago, the more I've been reading (or trying to read), the more he becomes suspicious. Epi's pointing out that sabie checked him and voted for him consistently makes me think (as it seems to make a few others think) that either he's got a helluva role she wanted to get rid of as a baddie (i.e., the Master), or a helluva Civ role she wanted out (which would seem rather odd, given that that would certainly raise suspicion gunning after a Civ so many times).

Anyway, I'll be back with further thoughts. I hope. And I hope the above comment isn't so far behind that it sounds terribly stupid, but oh well. Such is life.

[Snow Dog]

@MP

I've answered why my play has changed. If thats not good enough well you obviously just don't believe me. Nothing i can do about that.

You think because I am suspicious of Hedgie being a recruiter makes me bad. How so? I don't understand this leap you made.

And the third one was about my behaviour during the sabie lynch. I've said this before but unless there is something specific that i can answer i do not know what to say. How can I defend against the non specific?

The very idea that I would dare suggest you were recruited sent you into mirth. Why is it so funny? Are there not recruiters in this game? Cannot anyone be recruited?

I'm beginning to think the only way to win this game is to be recruited. I am getting to the point where it's hard to trust anyone.

[Chris]

Sabie voted me twice. I guess that constitutes "consistent".

But, she was a baddie. Baddie's try to take people with them on their way out. And I made a good case on her. Good and bad. So being involved in a baddie's death ploy isn't really that great of an indicator.

[Snow Dog]

And bloody hell people...that was a lot of catching up to do. This game is killing me.

[Chris]

Hey Snow Dog.

You gunna vote for me?

I think you should.

[nijuukyugou]

Ah, yes. In my brief studies (still working) I remember what had pinged me recently about Chris - the whole "well, we COULD lynch MM knowing his role, but it's a waste because he's vanilla if the Master is still alive" (I could quote the post, but it's long as hell so I choose to paraphrase). He then repeated what he had said a few days ago about "Well, if I WERE the Master, you'd be wasting a lynch, so let's look elsewhere." He already said this before as a defense. I took it the first time and let it by, thinking "yeah, that would be a waste, huh?" But using the same defense again? How long can we let the Master slip away like that if he is the Master? Even if the lynch doesn't work, it sure would reveal something and give Strax the chance to finish the job. And saying MM/Lucy Saxon is not a threat sounds like trying to keep his teammate(s) alive while putting suspicion on others...

I'll still look back for Bass stuff, but I'm putting my vote on Chris for now.

[keys56000000000]

I feel like I am at high school. You can see the cliques just looking at the polls..

[Chris]

Snow, you know after Bass gets lynched, you're next, right?


LINKI: Good... put that vote on me Ninju

[nijuukyugou]

Ugh, this is what happens when I don't get a vacation - I didn't notice MM voted Chris. Scratch what I said about saving teammates.

I need a drink.

[zeek]

I feel like I am at high school. You can see the cliques just looking at the polls..

Yanks eh?

[Chris]

No NO.. keep that vote on me Ninju.

HAVE SOME FUCKING CONVICTION!

[Chris]

Snow Dog... I know you're itching to vote for me. Just do it.

I've really given up. Every time I make a post, someone turns it into an issue. I'm distracting from the game . I just want to pack it in.

Do me the favor. Put me out of my misery. Vote for me man...

[nijuukyugou]

No NO.. keep that vote on me Ninju.

HAVE SOME FUCKING CONVICTION!

I ain't changin', hon. I'm just correcting myself before someone else does. It's the English teacher in me.