[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

#5451

S~V~S wrote:But you're MORE sure Draconus is bad?

Yes

#5452

One thing that gives me a little pause on Drconus is this very minor early point by RadicalFuzz:

RadicalFuzz wrote:Sloonei I like your point regarding Mongoose.

For reference this is what he's referring to. It was early and this is a very small thing so there's not a lot to dissect or base anything off of, but the way this reads to me is as a scum player trying to lump some support on a semi-existent bandwagon in the hopes that it might take off. I could be completely wrong, and this is the only time Fuzz ever mentions Mongoose/Draconus, but it's something.

I also don't really see any particular reason why Mongoose/Draconus should be suspected over other low posters.

#5453

Prisoner 509378 wrote:I'm reviewing my baddie reads to sort out which ones are founded and which ones are paranoia.

I started with Epignosis.

I no longer suspect Epignosis.

Why?

#5454

Silverwolf wrote:Epi and Sig-Everyone that has come into this thread has been willing to give GTH reads except for you two.

Is this somethng you are willing to do and if not, why not?

Epi will never ever do GTH reads or rainbow lists or any of that noise. Sig, on the other hand, should do things. I don't wanna have to move his freshly minted Town read off him.

Prisoner 509378 · #5455

Sloonei wrote:One thing that gives me a little pause on Drconus is this very minor early point by RadicalFuzz:
RadicalFuzz wrote:Sloonei I like your point regarding Mongoose.
For reference this is what he's referring to. It was early and this is a very small thing so there's not a lot to dissect or base anything off of, but the way this reads to me is as a scum player trying to lump some support on a semi-existent bandwagon in the hopes that it might take off. I could be completely wrong, and this is the only time Fuzz ever mentions Mongoose/Draconus, but it's something.

It could also be a bad guy lumping some support on an accusation against his team mate because he doesn't think it stands much chance of taking off -- particularly given that Fuzz didn't contribute a vote of his own as far as I can tell.

Sloonei wrote:I also don't really see any particular reason why Mongoose/Draconus should be suspected over other low posters.

I think the best way to look at Mongconus is to check the voting record:

Day 1: TH (middle)
Day 2: N/A
Day 3: N/A
Day 4: self-vote (early)
Day 5: DDL (late)

So that's two real votes with what was probably three opportunities to place a real vote (generously granting the availability problems on Days 2 and 3. I believe I have seen Draconus self-vote before as a townie, I'll check back to draw a comparison in terms of his general behavior when doing so. The only vote I think might be a problem is the DDL vote, simply because it's a hop-along on a mislynch -- but he's not the only one that can be accused of that. He's done basically nothing in this game and I do think he's a coin flip.

Prisoner 509378 · #5456

Sloonei wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:I'm reviewing my baddie reads to sort out which ones are founded and which ones are paranoia.

I started with Epignosis.

I no longer suspect Epignosis.
Why?

Difficult to describe. When reading his posts, I found myself willing to accept some of the more earnest material -- like the discussions that were fielded about the development of his play styles. A large part of me wonders whether a baddie Epignosis would be so willing to spill the emotion like that. Anyone who can recall a specific example of a baddie Epi doing that should certainly speak up.

I also thought the development of his read on DrWilgy was rather telling. I don't know if I can find a cop motivation for him to hit the brakes so hard on that case.

#5457

I've never known you to have difficulty describing things, Prisoner 509378. And I've been playing mafia with you for almost 3 days now.

But I have also had difficulty with Epi. I've changed my stance on him a few times publicly, and even more times in my head this game. I listed him as a Gun to Head scum read. That "emotion spilling" post of his is actually one of the ones I keep coming back to in my head. Something about it strikes me as dishonest. I do not doubt the words that he said in the post, but I've had a tough time swallowing them in the context of this game. It did not really address the suspicions that I had on him prior. But I don't think I've entirely figured out how Epi's brain works yet either.

Prisoner 509378 · #5458

Okay, I found the other Draconus self-vote I mentioned. He did it as a townie in Talking Heads Mafia, but he wasn't just goofing around. He was on the chopping block, and in his dejection he determined that breaking MP's rule against self-voting might get him modkilled and leave town the opportunity to lynch someone else instead (rather like a double lynch). This means that in that example, his self-vote was motivated by a real strategic concept that he cooked up in his brain, and that it had a function that he felt could progress his team's chances of winning.

In this game, Drac's self-vote is nothing. He just said it was something he liked to do.

Draconus wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:Still, don't understand why Draconus can't take his vote off himself and be more helpful to town then.
1. I didn't know votes were changeable at the time.

2. I wouldn't have moved it because I enjoy self-voting and breaking MP'S rules... so point 1 is moot.

The highlighted portion might also be interesting though, because if we return to Talking Heads for a moment...

Draconus wrote:It should be obvious. If I have to throw another rule in MP's face, I will. But I will say that maybe you should look at the voters who refuse to move.

Overall though I do think there is a meaningful difference here. His self-vote in TH came when he was in danger of being lynched, and it was his frustrated response to a thread climate working against him. In this game, he was not in danger of being lynched as far as I can tell. He had one vote on him prior (Quin), and it was so early in the phase that anything could happen. In the end it was an agleaminranks landslide.

#5459

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Okay, here's a chart of the results from the GTH exercise:

This chart suggests Boomslang, ika, Draconus, Nerolunar, and Serge are our top priorities today. I suppose that matches the discussions that have been going on in here. I'm surprised at the low totals on Quin and sig. Quin because he's definitely bad (my vote would have made it 3 for him, at least) and sig because he's just been such a hot topic all game long. Serge is also a bit of a surprise, I didn't expect him to be such a big suspect.
I'd like to hear more from the people who labeled him with an M, myself included.
If any of the unanimous town picks are making me uneasy, it's still indiglo. I still have her as a town read, but I continue to be unable to shake a feeling in the back of my mind that she's just playing a very precise scum game. She's been in the thread to hammer home a lot of points, but is seldom one of the players stirring the pot.

#5460

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Okay, I found the other Draconus self-vote I mentioned. He did it as a townie in Talking Heads Mafia, but he wasn't just goofing around. He was on the chopping block, and in his dejection he determined that breaking MP's rule against self-voting might get him modkilled and leave town the opportunity to lynch someone else instead (rather like a double lynch). This means that in that example, his self-vote was motivated by a real strategic concept that he cooked up in his brain, and that it had a function that he felt could progress his team's chances of winning.

In this game, Drac's self-vote is nothing. He just said it was something he liked to do.

Draconus wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:Still, don't understand why Draconus can't take his vote off himself and be more helpful to town then.
1. I didn't know votes were changeable at the time.

2. I wouldn't have moved it because I enjoy self-voting and breaking MP'S rules... so point 1 is moot.
The highlighted portion might also be interesting though, because if we return to Talking Heads for a moment...

Draconus wrote:It should be obvious. If I have to throw another rule in MP's face, I will. But I will say that maybe you should look at the voters who refuse to move.
Overall though I do think there is a meaningful difference here. His self-vote in TH came when he was in danger of being lynched, and it was his frustrated response to a thread climate working against him. In this game, he was not in danger of being lynched as far as I can tell. He had one vote on him prior (Quin), and it was so early in the phase that anything could happen. In the end it was an agleaminranks landslide.

His first point in that 2 point post also siren.gifs me. He self-voted and then apparently didn't glance back up at the poll to see that he had the option of changing his vote. I understand that he hasn't been the most involved in the game, but that's either just lazy or a bad excuse/lie.

Prisoner 509378 · #5461

Sloonei wrote:But I don't think I've entirely figured out how Epi's brain works yet either.

I'm going to take the risk of positing a theory about how Epi's brain works, at least as a Mafia player. I believe one of the most significant aspects of his game is to protect his "metas" between alignments. He might not call them metas, but I can't think of a better term. What I mean is that, even as a townie, he is resistant to certain things because he doesn't want to set a precedent that would be more problematic for him in future games as a non-townie. This would explain why it can be hard sometimes to get him to take a stance, or to engage him in any discussion that he didn't bring up himself. It could be why he hates
GTH reads. He has stated himself that he by principle refuses to make statements as any alignment that could be conclusively damning when investigated by a lie-detector role. That's at least what I suspect.

Epignosis, you will read this I am sure. If I'm wrong then by all means tell me so.

So in this game, when I encountered something that I wouldn't normally associate with the persona that is Epignosis (in this case a more willfully emotional expressiveness), it stands out to me. It means more than his other content does when my gut speaks to me about what he might be. I think it struck me as a concession by him, a rare willingness to step outside his own standards, for the sake of civil discussion and to explain his own behavior. Perhaps that difference is the reason he should be suspicious, I don't know. But I do think that reading him either way in this game can be reduced to that moment.

#5462

Also, if anyone didn't notice, RadicalFuzz, along with Diiny and Tranq, were among the prisoners killed off for inactivity. So we don't have to worry about him coming back.

Prisoner 509378 · #5463

Quin feels more bad to me than he did before the GTH reads. If he is indeed bad then I'm going to be excited about how valuable that stupid exercise has proven to be in multiple games.

Prisoner 509378 · #5464

#5465

I could also see Draconus overlooking the changability of votes as a town tell. If he was scum, I'd expect him to be a little bit more attentive when it comes to things like that. Or it could be something that I can't and shouldn't read into too deeply at all.
Of the two inactive replacements, I definitely think the combined post histories of Enrique + Boomslang are way scummier than those of Mongoose + Draconus. I just took a quick glance at Draconus and didn't come away feeling like he should be lynched.

His first post came a day late and was mostly just an apology for his absence. He notes Quin's (forced) vote on him and also casts the self-vote. He is insanified by his next post a few minutes later. The closest I can come to getting something alignment-indicative from this post is to say that I feel like he would have been more involved earlier if he was bad, but I do know how legitimate of a claim that is to make. I've never played with Draconus before.

I kinda like this post in which he seems to at least engage a little bit in scum hunting and also addresses Silverwolf's pressuring of him. I would like him to explain what "his style" is though.

Now here's an interesting post:

Draconus wrote: I had something typed up, had to go back to work, came back to post, and it disappeared. FML.

ika wrote:in that case im voting draconous for now

im saddened that silver thinks my budding is scum. shes should knwo thats the nullest of null tells
Why?

I had a comment on DDL because he's being brought up as a lynch candidate: I feel good about him because of his actions surrounding the Fuzz situation.

Sig: I don't think Silver answered my question, but this to anyone who wants to answer. Why is Sig a suspect? I've read some of the more recent discussions surrounding him but I still don't know.

Is that "good" as in you think he's good, or "good" as in you support him being lynched? This is very vague, and he makes no mention of what those "actions surrounding the Fuzz situation" are. I believe we've just been over how Draconus voted for DDL, so I would like a response here.
I see he did address the questions here and that's not an unbelievable answer. Changing one's mind is not a bad thing and I can't fault a person for doing it. This post at least seems consistent with everything else he's said and done in this game. How did I forget about this? I even wished him a happy birthday!

Draconus wrote:Thank you for responding to my question Indi! Much appreciated. That does seem like an info dump (possibly slip) to me. I'd have to go and look at the context to form a better conclusion, but I'd be okay with voting there at some point.
Also, I think I'm seeing the case on DDL now. I believe there's been enough said there to warrant a vote for now. This could change, though.

And sorry this is brief again. I'm posting from a vehicle on my way to lunch.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I am the subject of ika's supposed slip/info dump and I'm not seeing it that way. I frankly think the accusation that ika is a cop because he speculated that I was one of the failed arrests is very misguided. I'm not dismissing ika as a suspect, but this is not something that I am considering as a piece of evidence against him. He was speculating about night actions and potential Police targets. I made sense as a target at the time.

Mongoose had that one post that I pointed out as being mildly suspicious on Day 1, but seeing as she was replaced shortly after my point became close to null, and everyone who knows Mongoose assured me it was a null point from the beginning. Unless someone is able to spin something really sinister out of these posts, or if Draconus comes in and slips up hugely, I don't think I am able to justify a vote against him today.
Keeping it on Boomslang for now. Quin would be my first choice if I was changing.

linki: yeah, just like that.

#5466

@ Serge: You read the following players as scum in the GTH exercise: Black Rock, Turnip Head, Boomslang, thellama, chaindeath, soneji, Draconus, Epignosis, and ika. I believe you explained some of these, and by the looks of it you stuck anyone who was "neutral" as a scum read during the exercise. I don't mind a little bit of paranoia, but it does it make it difficult to distinguish the degree to which you are suspicious of anyone.

Serge wrote:Or, your grouping produced my reads. I'm not saying your grouping isn't planned. Is it?

GTH
- Town that I'm confident with are only Sloonei and SVS
- Other townies I have no previous recollection that they came across as scum
- Most of the scum I have no reads on, or are inactive
- I round off everything else as scum

Also isn't it obvious that my GTH reads as scum to town when all is said done? If I realized that, wouldn't I have at least easily put one name in the last group as scum?

I have no clue how GTHs work. If you ensnared me, then cool beans.

It would help if you clarified which scum reads, if any, are legitimate scum reads and which are "no read, so just marked as scum by default".
I'm also a bit alarmed by that last sentence, which I've put in italics. Why would it be possible for Mr Prisoner to have ensnared you? Are you bad? Is there a reason he could trap you?

Also one other thing that stood out to me when reading through your post history and then looking at your GTH reads was this post:

Serge wrote:I like thellama73's in-depth post about why he thinks Luffy is a cop. I don't necessarily agree with it but that amount of perception doesn't reek of scum to me. If he held on to just the "this game is hard to win for cops" thing, I may have voted for him.

I think ika is acting like a very naughty deer caught between the headlights. I honestly don't remember the case against gleam anymore, and the one against Epignosis half-built on his meta, which I don't take stock on.

Um, someone tell me how to vote.

ika

Does that work?

You say here that you like thellama's post about DDL, and that it "doesn't reek of scum", but then later you list him among your 9 scum reads. Did something about that llama change?

#5467

Scotty wrote:RIP DDL. That was another demoralizing lynch that I was a part of.

im sorry I haven't been around. I checked up on the thread earlier in the day and saw that I was 10 pages behind and hadn't had a chance to come back. It was a long day today, and will be an even longer one tomorrow.

I'm only sort of remembering everyone's posts and I appreciate the hard work a majority of the prisoners are giving to the thread, though the advent of all these new people make the game volume grow exponentially and definitely a bitch to keep up with on limited time.

I saw chaindeath was pretty active on the backend of the day, which is a welcome sight. I'm really liking his jib, and mildly feel better about him based on his response to my ISO and his reasoning behind his votes. I seem to remember him then making an unsubstantiated vote for someone later on without pretense again tho, which raised my eyebrows. I'll need to explore him further when I get some time. I also feel like I'm at the bottom of the list for some people, so I'll need to tackle that too I suppose.

I voted prisoner 509 though there were several ones that are worthy of being free men. I hope to get a bunch of fresh minds back into the game.

How would you characterize your read on chaindeath now? What parts of his ISO response and general activity yesterday did you like? If chaindeath is no longer your #2 suspect behind Quin (if chain occupied that spot before, I don't remember if you ever said that he did), then who is/are your current other top suspects?

#5468

@ Quin, I'm glad you're reading me as town now, or that you at least say you're reading me as town. You listed Black Rock, ika, Serge, and Nerolunar as scum in the GTH exercise. I'd like to hear more on those 4 names. If you had to rank them from most to least suspicious, how would that look?

Also why is Scotty listed as Town if you're voting for him right now?

#5469

Sloonei wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:Epi and Sig-Everyone that has come into this thread has been willing to give GTH reads except for you two.

Is this somethng you are willing to do and if not, why not?
Epi will never ever do GTH reads or rainbow lists or any of that noise. Sig, on the other hand, should do things. I don't wanna have to move his freshly minted Town read off him.

I hate doing GTH though.

Spoiler: show

Some of these did boil down to gut reads. I was surprised about my GTH read of Llama. However, thinking about it more so he is slightly scummy. He has been inactive and when he did come into the thread the only thing he did was push DDL. IF he had flipped mafia that would have been fine, however this didn't happen.

#5470

Thanks sig! I'll ask you the same question I just asked Quin: How would you rank your scum reads (Boomslang, thellama, Draconus, ika, Nerolunar, indiglo, Quin) from most to least suspicious?

Also you are the first person to list indi as a scum read. Care to elaborate on that?

Prisoner 509378 · #5471

A thought comes to mind regarding ika that I'd like Silverwolf to respond to when she has an opportunity.

To the question: "has ika been buddying Silverwolf?", the answer is a clear "yes". With this in mind I think we've explored two possible reasons for that:

1. ika is a baddie and is trying to get in/stay in SW's good graces.

2. ika is a townie who strongly reads SW as a townie, and is willfully following her lead.

What about another possibility?

3. This is the first game ika and SW have played together on a new website, and he is acting on a sort of protective/supportive instinct in this foreign environment.

#5472

Silverwolf wrote:Epi and Sig-Everyone that has come into this thread has been willing to give GTH reads except for you two.

Is this somethng you are willing to do and if not, why not?

No. Because I've never done it and have no intention of beginning today.

Question for you: How many times has ika fooled you as Mafia? How many times have you fooled ika?

Sloonei wrote:But I don't think I've entirely figured out how Epi's brain works yet either.

If paid professionals aren't cracking this nut, then neither are you.

Spoiler: show

This guy's a paid professional.

Scotty wrote:
Serge wrote:Where as Epignosis I imagine is a gruff ruffian of a man with one eye bigger than the other and a habitual chewer of his inner cheek

Not so! Even little girls like me.

#5473

how do we all picture me?

#5474

Sloonei wrote:Thanks sig! I'll ask you the same question I just asked Quin: How would you rank your scum reads (Boomslang, thellama, Draconus, ika, Nerolunar, indiglo, Quin) from most to least suspicious?

Also you are the first person to list indi as a scum read. Care to elaborate on that?

I recall Indi being active in the thread, but I can'y actually remember anything they've said. It is suspicious, however I've got nothing concrete for why I think Indi is mafia. Ranked from most to least.

Ika
Boomslang
Drac
Quin
Nero
Llama
Indi
So Ika, Boom, and Drac for the cases agaisnt them. Furthermore I dislike what we saw from Enrique. Nero for the way he is reacting to chaindeath as well as his flipfloppy tunneling stance on me. I might be slightly paranoid due to him tricking me as scum last game.
I explained my thoughts on llama and indi as well. Really nothing concrete.

#5475

sig wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Thanks sig! I'll ask you the same question I just asked Quin: How would you rank your scum reads (Boomslang, thellama, Draconus, ika, Nerolunar, indiglo, Quin) from most to least suspicious?

Also you are the first person to list indi as a scum read. Care to elaborate on that?
I recall Indi being active in the thread, but I can'y actually remember anything they've said. It is suspicious, however I've got nothing concrete for why I think Indi is mafia. Ranked from most to least.

Ika
Boomslang
Drac
Quin
Nero
Llama
Indi
So Ika, Boom, and Drac for the cases agaisnt them. Furthermore I dislike what we saw from Enrique. Nero for the way he is reacting to chaindeath as well as his flipfloppy tunneling stance on me. I might be slightly paranoid due to him tricking me as scum last game.
I explained my thoughts on llama and indi as well. Really nothing concrete.

Would you be willing or able to do an ISO on indi, even if it's just a short one?
Also what about Quin?

#5476

Any excuse not to do research for my paper so sure. :P

So I like that Quin defended me so I do have a slight pro Quin bias. However, some of his posts are questionable. I could also easily see a baddie loaning me votes to keep me alive, make more trouble in thread, and then get civ credit for saving me.

Prisoner 509378 · #5477

sig wrote:Any excuse not to do research for my paper so sure. :P

So I like that Quin defended me so I do have a slight pro Quin bias. However, some of his posts are questionable. I could also easily see a baddie loaning me votes to keep me alive, make more trouble in thread, and then get civ credit for saving me.

I'm not sure you two have much choice but to town read one another given that you were arguably the two fiercest defenders of Fuzz. I think you look better than he does.

#5478

Epignosis wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:Epi and Sig-Everyone that has come into this thread has been willing to give GTH reads except for you two.

Is this somethng you are willing to do and if not, why not?
No. Because I've never done it and have no intention of beginning today.

Question for you: How many times has ika fooled you as Mafia? How many times have you fooled ika?

The answer to both of them is none. I have yet to have a scum game against her and every time she was scum I have caught her within the first 3-5 pages.

#5479

Prisoner 509378 wrote:A thought comes to mind regarding ika that I'd like Silverwolf to respond to when she has an opportunity.

To the question: "has ika been buddying Silverwolf?", the answer is a clear "yes". With this in mind I think we've explored two possible reasons for that:

1. ika is a baddie and is trying to get in/stay in SW's good graces.

2. ika is a townie who strongly reads SW as a townie, and is willfully following her lead.

What about another possibility?

3. This is the first game ika and SW have played together on a new website, and he is acting on a sort of protective/supportive instinct in this foreign environment.

i have my own but I need to be at home my last post was a pain alone

#5480

There is one game that we debate on if I read her right or not. It wasn't till near end that I realized she was scum.

But that was a single game out of the others. She did well in that game and wanted to kill me constantly but didn't

#5481

There was also a scum game we shared as a hydra so if someone agrees she won't know they are wrong she has seen my play it firsthand.

She is amazing as scum too. There was one game where I was calling her scum and when trying to get her lunched ppl called her more town.

This is why she's so good she knows how to make herself look better and how she got away in that game

#5482

Epignosis doesn't look like skeletor?! Damn these online personas, messing with my perception of real looks.

#5483

So indi uses a lot and I mean a lot of faces. Especially this one.

She goes after Matt 1.0 and votes for him. I see a good amount of early defense for Ika it isn't overbearing, but it is present in a good number of her posts. Not nearly as muchif any defense of Gleam, however she also doesn't attack gleam. This is something to keep in mind if one flips scum.

indiglo wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:Matt is either playing from a high tightrope or is town. The risk/reward for his actions feels like high/medium if he's scum.
Sloonei is my strongest townread, as his posts have consistently made logical sense and he's avoided tunnelling on one player or interaction. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and that's good.
You look town-y to me, for similar reasons to Sloonei. The difference is your tone reads as a little early to reach a conclusion, like you're content with finding enough facts to reach a conclusion at all, not necessarily the correct one.

Spirityo still has said next to nothing and we're a few hours out from Day 2 ending. His four posts consist of the following. A "linki - that's a good idea", one "I agree with Sloonei about the cultural differences between RYM & Syndicate", a greeting to everyone, and an apology for missing the vote. Absolutely zero content whatsoever.
Enrique I don't like because of his refusal to explain his vote on Day 1. That entire situation read as if he was nervous, if that makes sense, like he didn't have a reason at the time of his vote but decided he needed one.

I refuse to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 & 1/2 foot pole. There's some logic to be found in interactions regarding them, but so much emotion that I'd probably end up stepping on someone's toes and they'd get mad at me for their decision to wear sandals.

My vote's going to be used to prevent a tie today. I'm indifferent as to where specifically it goes.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Llama can you elaborate on your conclusion that Luffy's posts scream "cop?"

Oh yes, thank you for reminding me I wanted to look over Enrique's posts!

Some interaction with Fuzz here.

indiglo wrote:Switching to Fuzz for the time being.

I would definitely like to hear from him / her before EoD if possible.

I did recently get mislynched in a CFD in Rocky & Bullwinkle, and it sucked. I prefer people to be able to defend against votes, but I also prefer not to be forced to vote for someone I don't want to vote for in order for my vote to mean something.

Linki up the wazoo here too! Weeeeee!

An early vote for fuzz after some Ika/Silver defense.

indiglo wrote:To me, it's not so much "opportunistic" as it is a fast flip w/absolutely NO explanation.

Fuzz, what is your motivation for suddenly flipping from not touching it with a 39 1/2 foot pole to voting exactly for that person?

This kind off seems like some Fuzz defense, but it is hard to tell. She did end the day with a vote for Fuzz and never really tried to switch the CFD.

indiglo wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Golden wrote: A CFD that actually takes down a baddie is GOING to make baddies reveal themselves. They have to scramble like hell. It is only normal that some, even if they are good players, are going to reveal their hands in the chaos. That's the whole point of it.
That's the thing though...it makes the baddies reveal themselves if the target of the CFD is in fact a baddie. If it's not, the sudden pressure on them out of nowhere might make them appear as if they were a baddie because of how they might react to receiving so many votes out of nowhere. Given the result, I obviously don't have a problem with the lynch and though I'm still not a CFD fan I can't criticize how it played out this time, but I do think that the result it produced owed at least most of it to luck, and that there have got to be some baddies on that wagon.
Why? Especially since it appeared that ika had the most votes? If Fuzz had appeared to have the most votes, then I would definitely agree he had been heaved under the Greyhound. But, from the way it looked, it looked like ika had been lynched and he had been saved. Why would baddies do that?

I don't buy it.

Replying as I catch up...

This is where my head is at also SVS. The fact is that on the poll, ika came out with MORE votes than Fuzz... so it looked like Fuzz was safe. No need to bus a teammate that is safe.

I disagree here, this is basically saying nobody on the Fuzz wagon is scum I don't think that is the case.

Indi also did some soft pushes on Gleam after Fuzz was lynched drawing connections between them. I'm unsure how to feel about that.

Overall I don't see anything really suspicious one could question her interaction with Fuzz and then her push on Gleam, but that isn't super scummy. I do think if Ika flips mafia then she is also. If I want to get really tinfoily I'd say Indi, Ika, and Nero are three mafia members. I'm just lacking proof. Though it could be possibly.

I'll also do a quick read over of llama and Enrique before EOD. I'm leaning towards an Enrique/Bloom lynch today. However, due to his inactivity I'm torn on whether that would be a good lynch or not.

Prisoner 509378 · #5484

sig, I don't believe you've said anything about my sudden and consistent defenses of you. Are you trying to pocket a prisoner?

#5485

Prisoner 509378 wrote:sig, I don't believe you've said anything about my sudden and consistent defenses of you. Are you trying to pocket a prisoner?

What do you mean, pocket a prisoner?

Prisoner 509378 · #5486

sig wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:sig, I don't believe you've said anything about my sudden and consistent defenses of you. Are you trying to pocket a prisoner?
What do you mean, pocket a prisoner?

Buddy me, man. Be my buddy. My devious, sinister buddy.

At the moment I am ripping chaindeath to shreds. Stay tuned gang.

#5487

Prisoner 509378 wrote:
sig wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:sig, I don't believe you've said anything about my sudden and consistent defenses of you. Are you trying to pocket a prisoner?
What do you mean, pocket a prisoner?
Buddy me, man. Be my buddy. My devious, sinister buddy.

At the moment I am ripping chaindeath to shreds. Stay tuned gang.

I am so ready.

#5488

sig wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Thanks sig! I'll ask you the same question I just asked Quin: How would you rank your scum reads (Boomslang, thellama, Draconus, ika, Nerolunar, indiglo, Quin) from most to least suspicious?

Also you are the first person to list indi as a scum read. Care to elaborate on that?
I recall Indi being active in the thread, but I can'y actually remember anything they've said. It is suspicious, however I've got nothing concrete for why I think Indi is mafia. Ranked from most to least.

Ika
Boomslang
Drac
Quin
Nero
Llama
Indi
So Ika, Boom, and Drac for the cases agaisnt them. Furthermore I dislike what we saw from Enrique. Nero for the way he is reacting to chaindeath as well as his flipfloppy tunneling stance on me. I might be slightly paranoid due to him tricking me as scum last game.
I explained my thoughts on llama and indi as well. Really nothing concrete.

I don't buy this. indiglo is bad because you can't remember anything she's said? indiglo has 267 posts, some of them fun, but many of them loaded with content, and that's after coming in as a replacement. How can you not remember anything indiglo has said, when several of her posts are about you?

I read your big post about indiglo, and it looks like you're trying to find a reason for her to be suspicious after you already decided she was.

Going back to the well on this one (for now).

sig

Prisoner 509378 · #5489

chaindeath needs another look.

Spoiler: show

Long Con "feels off", "based on his gut feeling". This a fluff suspicion, and chain's only action on Day 1.

Spoiler: show

More fluff suspicions on Day 2. I am skeptical that, after reading the whole thread up to this point, chaindeath's only pings stemmed from Matt "acting oddly" (whatever that means) and Silverwolf placing early votes in a game where they may be changed at will.

Spoiler: show

Fluff Suspicions III, Return of the Fluff

"DDL is acting funky". Okay, what?

Moreover, he is "still" acting funky. chaindeath never said anything about DDL prior other than placing an unexplained Day 2 vote.

Spoiler: show

chaindeath placed a meaningless flier vote on DDL during the heat of the CFD action on Day 2. At first I was willing to give him a break and believe that he was busy catching up with the game and didn't have the opportunity to immerse himself in the EOD action. I no longer feel that way. I've actually witnessed first hand at least one baddie do this exact thing -- avoid a confrontational tally and use the excuse that they weren't educated enough on the game to take part in it.

Spoiler: show

Fluffapalooza. Fluffasaurus Rex. Fluff the Magic Dragon. Stay Flufft Marshmallow Man. These are nothing reads.

Spoiler: show

Instead of explaining his suspicions, he plays the noob card. No.

Spoiler: show

I do like that there are numerous people on his mind in this post at least. It's a start towards showing that chaindeath is really trying to figure anything out. The reads provided remain unexplained though. They exist.

Spoiler: show

His most substantive read comes here, in an accusation and vote for the player who had probably been his most consistent opposition in the thread. His accusation is based upon the notion that Nero may have parroted him -- days after the fact. This strikes me as dubious, because it's quite a minor point and for it to be chain's only explained read of the entire game to this point is a convenience inherent to his own relevance to that read.

There's also the fluffopotamus read on Scotty at the end of the post.

Spoiler: show

There's a nice tone to this post. It decreases my inclination to noose chaindeath. It's a limited influence though because it's just one defensive post that can only be taken or left at face value.

Spoiler: show

What would chaindeath do differently if he was a baddie?

-----------

I am realizing that many of my points mirror those made already by Scotty in a separate ISO of chaindeath.

chaindeath answered to them substantively.

-----------

chaindeath's only consequential vote was on Day 3, when he was on the Nerolunar bandwagon that did not surpass the Long Con wagon.

Note: this isn't the doomshredding I thought it would be when I was digging through his earliest posts. I am more suspicious of him than I was before though.

#5490

Prisoner 509378 wrote:A thought comes to mind regarding ika that I'd like Silverwolf to respond to when she has an opportunity.

To the question: "has ika been buddying Silverwolf?", the answer is a clear "yes". With this in mind I think we've explored two possible reasons for that:

1. ika is a baddie and is trying to get in/stay in SW's good graces.

This is very possible with the constant buddying.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:2. ika is a townie who strongly reads SW as a townie, and is willfully following her lead.

Could be but the instant townread with the lack of healthy town paranoia has me worried.

Prisoner 509378 wrote:What about another possibility?

3. This is the first game ika and SW have played together on a new website, and he is acting on a sort of protective/supportive instinct in this foreign environment.

This is the reason I'm not screaming for ika's head. He does have a tendency to naturally defend me regardless of alignment and I think he'd do this even more so on a new site. I still don't like the earlier things I pointed out about his play here overall.

I want to lynch Draconus because he hasn't done anything this game, his self vote all day phase gives him a great excuse to not put his vote anywhere useful or helpful to town, and other than that, he hasn't cast a vote at all. He's basically UTR and I want him gone.

linki-I'd be willing to look at chaindeath again, he was one of the ones I had the most trouble with in my GTH reads. Him and neuro.

Prisoner 509378 · #5491

Epignosis wrote:I don't buy this. indiglo is bad because you can't remember anything she's said? indiglo has 267 posts, some of them fun, but many of them loaded with content, and that's after coming in as a replacement. How can you not remember anything indiglo has said, when several of her posts are about you?

I read your big post about indiglo, and it looks like you're trying to find a reason for her to be suspicious after you already decided she was.

Going back to the well on this one (for now).

sig

I actually don't disagree with this entirely as I have with most anti-sig commentary. I'm not thrilled with sig's attempt to support his suspicion of indiglo, because the content he pulled doesn't have anything I'd call "meat".

I'll acknowledge though that he said that himself:

sig wrote:Overall I don't see anything really suspicious one could question her interaction with Fuzz and then her push on Gleam, but that isn't super scummy. I do think if Ika flips mafia then she is also. If I want to get really tinfoily I'd say Indi, Ika, and Nero are three mafia members. I'm just lacking proof. Though it could be possibly.

Prisoner 509378 · #5492

Silverwolf wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:A thought comes to mind regarding ika that I'd like Silverwolf to respond to when she has an opportunity.

To the question: "has ika been buddying Silverwolf?", the answer is a clear "yes". With this in mind I think we've explored two possible reasons for that:

1. ika is a baddie and is trying to get in/stay in SW's good graces.
This is very possible with the constant buddying.

I have one nagging doubt about this: if he is trying to get on your good side, then shouldn't it be clear to him by now that the method has failed? He's not on your good side at all. I get the impression he doesn't care how his treatment of you reflects on him.

#5493

Epignosis wrote: Question for you: How many times has ika fooled you as Mafia? How many times have you fooled ika?

I often answer questions directed at me and return questions back at the person questioning me as scum. Just sayin'

In any case, I have not played in a game where ika is scum. We did have a scum hydra together where we won and I'd say I got a look at his scum meta there and in games I have read or things he has told me as well.

As scum, he can usually catch me but he has a hard time lynching me. I've gone up against him at least 3 or 4 times. The one time I technically say I fooled him, he didn't figure it out until late game when it was too late.

#5494

Prisoner 509378 wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:
Prisoner 509378 wrote:A thought comes to mind regarding ika that I'd like Silverwolf to respond to when she has an opportunity.

To the question: "has ika been buddying Silverwolf?", the answer is a clear "yes". With this in mind I think we've explored two possible reasons for that:

1. ika is a baddie and is trying to get in/stay in SW's good graces.
This is very possible with the constant buddying.
I have one nagging doubt about this: if he is trying to get on your good side, then shouldn't it be clear to him by now that the method has failed? He's not on your good side at all. I get the impression he doesn't care how his treatment of you reflects on him.

I agree, he doesn't seem to mind how this looks. I also don't see how he could possibly backtrack on it now without looking worse, however. So my guess, is he'll keep doing it regardless of his alignment.

Prisoner 509378 · #5495

Thanks for your responses, SW. I'll let you do your thing now.

Silverwolf wrote:I'm gonna ISO and case Draconus when I get a chance sometime today.

#5496

Silverwolf wrote:
I want to lynch Draconus because he hasn't done anything this game, his self vote all day phase gives him a great excuse to not put his vote anywhere useful or helpful to town, and other than that, he hasn't cast a vote at all. He's basically UTR and I want him gone.

linki-I'd be willing to look at chaindeath again, he was one of the ones I had the most trouble with in my GTH reads. Him and neuro.

I'd like to add to this that Draconus' vote on Dragon was very opportunistic with very little reasoning attached. Reminded me of Radical Fuzz's ika vote that got him lynched.

I'd also be willing to re-look at Boomslang as well. I clearly have some ISOing to do.

#5497

Epignosis wrote: I don't buy this. indiglo is bad because you can't remember anything she's said? indiglo has 267 posts, some of them fun, but many of them loaded with content, and that's after coming in as a replacement. How can you not remember anything indiglo has said, when several of her posts are about you?

I read your big post about indiglo, and it looks like you're trying to find a reason for her to be suspicious after you already decided she was.

Going back to the well on this one (for now).

sig

What do you think of his actual case on Indiglo that he laid out?

#5498

OK, First of all looking through Mongoose's posts and I see nothing with any substance to it. Lots of fluff posting and commenting on others opinions-mostly agreeing with them or expanding on them. This is something I can see scum do to appear to be contributing and looking busy.

Draconus:

Draconus wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:
Golden wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:
Golden wrote:@silverwolf - that post is insanification, and its a punishment for self-voting. Those familiar with Long Con's insanifier know what it looks like you'll get used to it around here soon enough lol.
I have no idea what this insanifier is but I'd like to find out more sometime.
http://www.mikesteffler.com/InsanityGenerator.html
That's hilarious!!

Still, don't understand why Draconus can't take his vote off himself and be more helpful to town then.
1. I didn't know votes were changeable at the time.

2. I wouldn't have moved it because I enjoy self-voting and breaking MP'S rules... so point 1 is moot.

I think his refusal to change his vote despite the fact that it is against the rules and the fact that it isn't helpful to town is damning. There is no reason not to put your vote where it will be useful and informative if you are town. Other than this, Draconus only voted for dragon which I will comment on it a bit.

Draconus wrote:I'll be honest. Today's my birthday, and I have little motivation to get on here and read despite it being the weekend. So I'll not likely be back today. Additionally I begin my trek to Pittsburgh to stay with a good friend of mine for several days. I will try my best to be on when I get there, but no guarantees. That being said, my intention is to vote for ika tomorrow. Why? Look at my post history. There's not much there so it won't be hard to find.
Also, I still owe a prisoner an explanation for my DDL vote. I was planning on addressing this at some point, anyways. My initial positive read on DDL was solely based on something he said about his own actions surrounding Fuzz. That he originally was going after Fuzz, voted for him, then switched his vote because no one else was following him, then when the whole cfd thing started, switched his vote back to Fuzz.
After reading many anti-DDL opinions, I changed my mind. I started to see how those actions fit into typical bussing behavior. We were wrong, obviously, but that's the gist of it.

This is the reason for his opportunistic jump on Dragon. It's weak. He initially said this:

Draconus wrote:
I had a comment on DDL because he's being brought up as a lynch candidate: I feel good about him because of his actions surrounding the Fuzz situation.

Then later came and threw his vote on Dragon with no explanation and later gives a very wishy washy excuse for it.

The rest of his very brief ISO is fluff and filler with no content. He's laying low and I said repeatedly I think scum are laying low this game. With mongoose's behavior plus Draconus behavior, I think this has a good chance of flipping scum.

#5499

Better than the 7/10 you gave ika?

#5500

Silverwolf wrote:
Epignosis wrote: Question for you: How many times has ika fooled you as Mafia? How many times have you fooled ika?
I often answer questions directed at me and return questions back at the person questioning me as scum. Just sayin'

In any case, I have not played in a game where ika is scum. We did have a scum hydra together where we won and I'd say I got a look at his scum meta there and in games I have read or things he has told me as well.

As scum, he can usually catch me but he has a hard time lynching me. I've gone up against him at least 3 or 4 times. The one time I technically say I fooled him, he didn't figure it out until late game when it was too late.

You're telling me that you have just as much experience of ika being bad as S~V~S and thellama73 do.

It's over! Would you play a sequel?