The Syndicate

nutella wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:

nutella wrote:Aw bye Illy, sad to see you go. Welcome Mac.

Drum: I admit I didn't fully understand your plan at first. But I still think it's somewhat dangerous to focus on lynching the one rogue rather than the mafia, and we don't even fully understand how targeting elements of the Process works. It just seems like a waste of lynch opportunities to me -- perhaps it would weaken the Process but at the cost of keeping the mafia alive.

Gotcha, thanks for the answer of there was no malicious intent possible. It was an opportunistic suspicion that you thought you could bank on without actually having a base for it.

Current "vote": Nutella

Fabricating a scumread for malicious intent that you cannot back up or provide makes the read feel forced and opportunistic.

What are you talking about? Of course there could be malicious intent in steering the lynches away from the mafia. I said that it would be dangerous, and it was a reasonable at the time to think you might have intentions of keeping the mafia alive. And it still could be, but again I don't really suspect you as much anymore; that doesn't mean my original suspicion was unfounded or opportunistic. It may have been exaggerated by a misunderstanding of your plan but it was still legitimate and can still apply to the clarified plan.

thellama73 wrote:I am fairly willing to trust the Cell and vote young lady today, though, if others agree.

thellama73 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I'm glad McDougall is here. He can usually see through the nonsense. The Cell reads JJJ as inconclusive. Is that not suspicious to anyone else?

What exactly do you think the implications might be of the Cell calling me "inconclusive". What does that mean to you?

The Cell is certainly not going to say "X player is bad", so I think an inconclusive read looks fishy.

Regarding your ISOs, I just think they have little value so early in the game. I don't really see the point of doing so many of them. Later, absolutely, but this early feels fake to me.

thellama73 wrote:Who are you going to vote for, McDougall? I'll vote however you do.

thellama73 wrote:Regarding your ISOs, I just think they have little value so early in the game. I don't really see the point of doing so many of them. Later, absolutely, but this early feels fake to me.

DFaraday wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I am fairly willing to trust the Cell and vote young lady today, though, if others agree.

Why?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:General question for everyone in the game:

If the baddies do not "kill" a Process element at any point, or they haven't after a few night phases have passed -- how do you think the Process should be handled?

Matt wrote:Lol, I got a kick out of one element voting for the other, but as someone else said (Drum?) this is just WIFOM central and I wouldn't trust anything any of them say. I'm pretty much going to pretend they don't exist.

Young Lady wrote:

Cell wrote:Vote Selection: Young Lady

We believe a Young Lady lynch will yield favorable results.

This Young Lady believes the Cell is a minion of the Process and seeks to aid in its victory.

This Young Lady mistrusts the four legged mammal for following the wicked creature known as the cell in an attempt to destroy the lady.

thellama73 wrote:

DFaraday wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I am fairly willing to trust the Cell and vote young lady today, though, if others agree.

Why?

Why not? I'm a trusting person, and from the result we will be able to tell the quality of the cell's information for the future.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:MP hasn't posted since Night 1. Potentially silenced.

Nerolunar wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:These zebra votes are seriously ridiculously suspicious at face value. If you all can't recognize that, then I don't know what to say.

Ugh, I know.

You seem to be scapegoating hard though. It makes me a little wary of you, throwing blame around. Did you defend Zebra or her actions anywhere? If this lynch was as bad as you make it out to be, you should have been more vocal about it before it happened.

Won´t it just regenerate if we kill it? I think someone(Nutella maybe) wrote something about those cells.

Nerolunar wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Nerolunar wrote:If I know myself well, Im going to believe in a case made tomorrow and bandwagon. Thats how it usually is for me at this stage. Im not proud, just saying.

Hold the phone. Why is that a bad thing?

You are preemptively setting yourself up for failure, but only becaused you defined the action as failure. Why?

Because I struggle forming independent reads in the beginning of a game and it bugs me. I think it is a bad thing that I must rely on other player´s cases.

At least I am able to reflect on this, I guess.

Ugh I just need to be better at mafia. 7 losses in a row have made me a little sour.

Cell wrote:

Matt wrote:Lol, I got a kick out of one element voting for the other, but as someone else said (Drum?) this is just WIFOM central and I wouldn't trust anything any of them say. I'm pretty much going to pretend they don't exist.

Scans Matt

Results: We believe Matt is detrimental to the Cloudwalk regardless of his alignment.

DrWilgy wrote:Cake Lady hasn't been here. Civ or mafia her lack of response to me seals the deal. I guess it's time.

Eloooooh

DrWilgy wrote:Cake Lady hasn't been here. Civ or mafia her lack of response to me seals the deal. I guess it's time.

Eloooooh

Matt wrote:

Cell wrote:

Matt wrote:Lol, I got a kick out of one element voting for the other, but as someone else said (Drum?) this is just WIFOM central and I wouldn't trust anything any of them say. I'm pretty much going to pretend they don't exist.

Scans Matt

Results: We believe Matt is detrimental to the Cloudwalk regardless of his alignment.

Why? I pretty much agreed with you that no socks should be listened to, I just went one step further and threw you in with that bunch. You make no sense.

I'm going to get the ball rolling on Elohcin. She's clearly bad. I was conflicted for a second, thinking maybe she was just frazzled at me for my gameplay, but she's been unable or unwilling to answer most questions directed at her, and when she does they make no sense.

Linki - Ninja'd by the Doc

Elohcin wrote:

Matt wrote:

Cell wrote:

Matt wrote:Lol, I got a kick out of one element voting for the other, but as someone else said (Drum?) this is just WIFOM central and I wouldn't trust anything any of them say. I'm pretty much going to pretend they don't exist.

Scans Matt

Results: We believe Matt is detrimental to the Cloudwalk regardless of his alignment.

Why? I pretty much agreed with you that no socks should be listened to, I just went one step further and threw you in with that bunch. You make no sense.

I'm going to get the ball rolling on Elohcin. She's clearly bad. I was conflicted for a second, thinking maybe she was just frazzled at me for my gameplay, but she's been unable or unwilling to answer most questions directed at her, and when she does they make no sense.

Linki - Ninja'd by the Doc

Please. State your questions, I will answer. I hadn't seen any questions form you, just name calling.

Matt wrote:I played Spirited Away, but died fairly soon I think.

Elo - Do you have a rebuttal to niju's claim that you should remember how Wilgy was in that game?

Elo - Throughout the phase, Wilgy has been speaking in English in every post except for one, so how did you come to the conclusion he was cursed?

thellama73 wrote:JJJ has done nothing to ameliorate my distrust in him. It started off as a hunch, but doing ISOs on every single player on Day 2 is trying way too hard to appear helpful. I don't buy it, good sirs. I don't buy it one bit.

thellama73 wrote:

DFaraday wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I am fairly willing to trust the Cell and vote young lady today, though, if others agree.

Why?

Why not? I'm a trusting person, and from the result we will be able to tell the quality of the cell's information for the future.

DFaraday wrote:

Nerolunar wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:These zebra votes are seriously ridiculously suspicious at face value. If you all can't recognize that, then I don't know what to say.

Ugh, I know.

You seem to be scapegoating hard though. It makes me a little wary of you, throwing blame around. Did you defend Zebra or her actions anywhere? If this lynch was as bad as you make it out to be, you should have been more vocal about it before it happened.

Won´t it just regenerate if we kill it? I think someone(Nutella maybe) wrote something about those cells.

This struck me as a NO U, and rather inaccurate assessment of MP.

Nerolunar wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Nerolunar wrote:If I know myself well, Im going to believe in a case made tomorrow and bandwagon. Thats how it usually is for me at this stage. Im not proud, just saying.

Hold the phone. Why is that a bad thing?

You are preemptively setting yourself up for failure, but only becaused you defined the action as failure. Why?

Because I struggle forming independent reads in the beginning of a game and it bugs me. I think it is a bad thing that I must rely on other player´s cases.

At least I am able to reflect on this, I guess.

Ugh I just need to be better at mafia. 7 losses in a row have made me a little sour.

This feels genuine, but in a game with Mafia and an Independent threat, isn't necessarily indicative of alignment. There wasn't a lot to go on, but I'd read Nero as mildly baddie based on his posts.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Going through some more ISOs from people who voted anywhere other than Zebra.

agleaminranks

Spoiler: show

agleaminranks wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I think this is crazy interesting. If we all decided to work together, civ and scum, and get rid of the process by voting his element each day, we could rid ourselves of him completely (or at least make him vanilla) so we don't have to deal with him at all really.

How much commitment would you be willing to offer to this notion of consistently lynching Process terms rather than players? You seem to be fully on board in your language here without must hesitance or consideration, which is a curious thing in the face of any suggestion that town and baddies openly coordinate on anything.

Elohcin, I don't think this is the right strategy to take. I'm thinking the Process is a single lynchable person with formes. I'll explain in a bit.

Catching up, DrumBeats, I am extremely against this idea of the scum and the civilians secretly teaming up. Roles are scarce but given that it's a side mission it's probably safe to assume that mafia has some nightkill ability. What the hell is there in the promise of not killing civilians? Ring of Gyges, folks. Even if given the opportunity to act in unison with the whole group, they have the option of completely screwing over the civilians with a nightkill from the anonymity of this arrangement. Civs could pretty easily be getting themselves into a bind. It sounds like an inherently bad situation where the civilians are going to get the short end of the stick.

Also, thoughts re: Cell. So, Cheerleader won the poll yesterday is my guess. Host says the Process will manifest itself in many ways. I'm guessing the Process is manifest in the Cheerleader form now, and it has that ability, and this is why it was revealed.
The Cheerleader role also specifies that it can protect a Process element from being nightkilled. And here Cell shows up in the daily lynch section.
It seems most likely that possibly the Process is either able to change elements on a daily basis and this will be what reveals the role, is my guess.
My original guess was that perhaps by voting the element it would force the Process to change to that element, but given that the Cheerleader role mentions nightkill protection from elements, they're capable of being killed, and this would then prevent the Process from becoming that element. So, we have one element on the lynch list which we could eliminate. But I wonder why Cell specifically shows up, versus other elements, or elements as a whole. Something to do with the Process's selection, or Host's discrimination? Maybe it's what element the Process is planning on taking tomorrow?

So, tl;dr, I think the elements are formes that the Process takes, rather than someone being behind it, as someone speculated earlier (don't remember who at the moment, sorry). I think we can vote to kill the element to prevent the Process from taking that forme later, but the Process is still someone out there amongst our ranks. Given that we don't know what the hell the role does and if this is true we're lynching essentially nobody, it's giving the civilians fewer opportunities to nab a baddie early on. In a bigger game I would want to focus more on preserving civilian life without eliminating indiscriminately, but I don't think we have that luxury here. Gotta get on the hunt, or the civs are in trouble. Look at Barry Lyndon.

I propose we skip the Cell voting for now. Focus on baddy hunting. Right now, the Process has a defensive element and is less able to do anything serious. This is the moment to strike.

Initial reads on the few actives on here have been pretty good. I can follow up more on that if anyone wants. DrumBeat's post about strategy seems to favor the baddies but it only strikes me as marginally pingy. I would be tempted to vote for them, but it's a little too early to have more than just a sinking suspicion on little evidence. Elohcin glomming on to that strategy might be something of note too.

agleam was probably the player most staunchly opposed to the baddies/townies bargain proposed by DrumBeats. He goes to good lengths to explain his perspective and my immediate inclination is to think he misinterpreted DrumBeats's proposition (primarily overlooking the detail that it'd require waiting for the baddies to make the first move) instead of something more nefarious i.e. a baddie trying to collective civilian credit by yelling about a controversial idea.

If there's something suspicious about this post it'd be the bit I highlighted, merely because it's quite a waffle on DrumBeats. agleam seems to cover a wide portion of the reads spectrum here, suggesting that DrumBeats' plan is pro-baddie, but it isn't suspicious, but he could be vote-worthy, but he might not deserve that. Numerous caveats. That's a read I'd like you to restate now please, agleam: what do you think of DrumBeats in the immediate present?

Spoiler: show

agleaminranks wrote:As an aside: DrumBeats' plan is a terrible idea, but I don't think it's because he's bad.

I have to dash off to work and will be gone for the voting period.

Matt. I think your criticisms of zebra and Elo are both crazy and misplaced and I dislike your actions so far. Zebra has been posting nonsense that indicates nothing and I'm reading Elo as a helpful civilian right now. You get my vote today.

This is his vote for Matt, supported by an perspective that on Day 1 was quite unique and unpopular. He didn't like Matt's Zebra vote, which was mildly unpopular on Day 1 at least from the crowd who didn't partake in it, and he defended Elohcin as a civilian read. I at least appreciate that agleam is willing to take stances that weren't en vogue. A free thinker who vocalizes his unpopular opinions is more often a town trait than a baddie trait I think.

Spoiler: show

agleaminranks wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:These zebra votes are seriously ridiculously suspicious at face value. If you all can't recognize that, then I don't know what to say.

Effin' seriously. There was nothing to be gotten out of zebra's posting yesterday. I don't know if she was insanified or just out of it for this game. Maybe both are likely.

sig wrote:That wasn't a good lynch at all, she was obviously cursed or something and Wilgy why did you push to lynch me when I couldn't talk.

sig, I'm not sure if I buy that you were silenced. I know some sort of night action was in place, but I highly doubt that both you were silenced and zebra was insanified. If you read my analysis of what I think the Process' element for the time was, I don't know if it's possible for the mafia to do both so quickly. I'm just not taking it. Either zebra was insanified or you were silenced, not both. Given that poor zebra flipped civilian you're not looking too hot to me.

It seems to me like the nighttime vote is to reveal one of the Process' elements? A reasonable use of the nighttime I think.

This is perhaps WIFOM, but I kind of doubt agleam would throw all this shade at sig and then promptly kill him as a baddie. That's a nice look.

~~~

I think he looks okay for the most part. I made one point that I'd like him to address related to the highlighted content in the first post.

Matt wrote:

Matt wrote:I played Spirited Away, but died fairly soon I think.

Elo - Do you have a rebuttal to niju's claim that you should remember how Wilgy was in that game?

Elo - Throughout the phase, Wilgy has been speaking in English in every post except for one, so how did you come to the conclusion he was cursed?

After going through my ISO, I do apologize for referring to you as "hon". Otherwise, I don't know what you're talkin' about "name calling", but mkay.

Anyway, answers?

MacDougall wrote:Voting for Darth Wilgy. I believe he breadcrumbed a scum read of sig then killed him for wifom reasons.

DrWilgy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Voting for Darth Wilgy. I believe he breadcrumbed a scum read of sig then killed him for wifom reasons.

Dammit Mac's civ.

MacDougall wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Voting for Darth Wilgy. I believe he breadcrumbed a scum read of sig then killed him for wifom reasons.

Dammit Mac's civ.

How did u guess?

MacDougall wrote:Does this mean you are you going to kill me Darth?

Cell wrote:This will be our final transmission. Future Cells cannot be trusted. Future Socks cannot be trusted. We believe it is in the civilian and mafia's best interests to work together to eliminate the Process.. Do as you will.

DrWilgy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Does this mean you are you going to kill me Darth?

Prolly.

MacDougall wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Does this mean you are you going to kill me Darth?

Prolly.

That's uncool

Eliminate this man

nutella wrote:Alright, I'm giving Eloh another chance and voting for Nerolunar because he is bad. Just a strong gut feeling that has emerged from his last several posts. I feel similarly about DF, and to a lesser extent llama.

kneel4justice wrote:

thellama73 wrote:JJJ has done nothing to ameliorate my distrust in him. It started off as a hunch, but doing ISOs on every single player on Day 2 is trying way too hard to appear helpful. I don't buy it, good sirs. I don't buy it one bit.

I was actually feeling good about JJJ's posts. But, I can see it as a way to appear helpful too. I myself thought it was kind of early but just figured that is the type of player that JJJ is. If he did it as mafia, that's pretty impressive. I more so was inclined to believe it would be more unnecessary if he were to be mafia.
Is it not normal for him to do ISO's at this stage of the game?
As for you finding Cell's assessment of JJJ to be an indication of alignment...I don't understand your thinking behind that. At the first read, I was not taking it very serious. Then the Wilgy joke kind of confirmed in my mind that it was more so a troll than having some inside insight. Have you changed your perspective on the Cell's readings since there have now been more?

MovingPictures07 wrote:As for me, I have to go now, and the next 48 hours or so I'll be pretty busy. I wanted to make sure to sneak in some Night posting while I could before the period ended (1) in case I die tonight, or otherwise (2) due to the next 48-hour period. I'll contribute what I can. I think we should widen the discussion of players. I'd like to perform some ISO analyses, but they're a bit meaningless this early and without a mafia flip, and I'm short on time until near the end of Day 2. So we'll see. Someone else feel free to do them if you're so inclined (JJJ, I'm looking at you primarily).

Elohcin wrote:

Matt wrote:

Matt wrote:I played Spirited Away, but died fairly soon I think.

Elo - Do you have a rebuttal to niju's claim that you should remember how Wilgy was in that game?

Elo - Throughout the phase, Wilgy has been speaking in English in every post except for one, so how did you come to the conclusion he was cursed?

After going through my ISO, I do apologize for referring to you as "hon". Otherwise, I don't know what you're talkin' about "name calling", but mkay.

Anyway, answers?

As for the first question: I have said this before and I will say it again. Between my job, homeschooling, and household matters, I only have enough capacity in my brain for one mafia game at a time. Once I am done with a game, I put it out of my head and focus on what's at hand. I am the same way with my business. I focus on this week's cakes and this week's only. I have several order forms in my business folder, but I don't pull them out until it's time to shop for ingredients for that week. I can't keep that many things at the forefront of my mind. I know several of you can. Epi, for one, can read 6 or 7 books at once an remember what's going on in each. All while playing and hosting mafia and keeping up with several shows. And then on top of that, I bet he could recall the last 7 mafia games he played in order. Me? I know, of course, I hosted DA most recently. I think before that I was in....I think an MP game. I cannot even recall. Before that it was Rocky & Bullwinkle, I think. Call me stupid, but I just can't do it. My brain doesn't retain info well :P I am a second child and my older brother graduated with a 4.3 (validictorian) and I never saw him crack a book. I worked hard and struggled for my As and Bs. But, I am creative and I have more common sense than the next guy. We're all different. You can't say I'm bad b/c my brian doesn;t retain info like the rest of you smarties in here. I won't stand for it. I heard one too many times, "why can't you be more like your brother." I won't stand for anything like that here.

Second question: I answered this one. Wilgy's gibberish post was towards the beginning of Day 1. Night actions were used Night 0. I had been mostly focused on your posts so far during Day 1 and paid more attention to you than anyone else and I know I shouldn't have. I should have let you do your thing and just shut up b/c it aided us in lynching a civ Day 1. Anyway...so I was paying more attention to you than him(remember I am a focused person and don't keep a lot in the forefront of my mind at the same time) and that was the first post of his that I could recall. So when I made of note of seeing it, my brain automatically though, "hmm, he must have been cursed. Carrying on... Matt is annoying the hell out of me." So when you asked about why I hadn't been all over wilgy's case as I was all over yours. I just wrote what I recalled thinking when I saw his post. AND, even though he wasn't being helpful in my opinion. I didn't think he was being too harmful as I thought you were. But I guess calling out names and accusing them to be a particular role is a genuine playstyle. I just hope that if you stick around, that you will not only say things like, "niju is the professor, let's lynch her" But that you will actually build some cases as to why you think those things.

Oh, and I think I said that wrong. I don't mean name calling. I mean naming players as bad with no explanation. Sorry abotu that, the misunderstanding was my miscommunication for sure.

nutella wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:

nutella wrote:Aw bye Illy, sad to see you go. Welcome Mac.

Drum: I admit I didn't fully understand your plan at first. But I still think it's somewhat dangerous to focus on lynching the one rogue rather than the mafia, and we don't even fully understand how targeting elements of the Process works. It just seems like a waste of lynch opportunities to me -- perhaps it would weaken the Process but at the cost of keeping the mafia alive.

Gotcha, thanks for the answer of there was no malicious intent possible. It was an opportunistic suspicion that you thought you could bank on without actually having a base for it.

Current "vote": Nutella

Fabricating a scumread for malicious intent that you cannot back up or provide makes the read feel forced and opportunistic.

What are you talking about? Of course there could be malicious intent in steering the lynches away from the mafia. I said that it would be dangerous, and it was a reasonable at the time to think you might have intentions of keeping the mafia alive. And it still could be, but again I don't really suspect you as much anymore; that doesn't mean my original suspicion was unfounded or opportunistic. It may have been exaggerated by a misunderstanding of your plan but it was still legitimate and can still apply to the clarified plan.

thellama73 wrote:On its own, I wouldn't have put much stock in the Cell's read, but since I already suspected JJJ and that read did nothing to contradict me, I interpret it as a piece of supporting evidence.

agleaminranks wrote:Going back, Matt has done little but tunnel Elohcin since the last night phase. But his retorts seem a little more serious this time, and he is pressing for serious questions.

I don't know how I feel about Elohcin at this point. She had one post that pinged me but her clarification made me backtrack that thought. I will try to get a read before the day ends.