Murder, Mayhem, and Mafia
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/
Show him your love, and vote him upsprityo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:15 pmI mean mac identifies as dumb on a regular basisMacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:43 pm Dumbass thinks I'm Mafia. News at 11.
Lynch spiritchuck or MP imo.but I mean I still love the guy
I’ll gladly be lynched to prove both A I’m not mafia, B don’t care, and C correct. (Again)
I chuckled.MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:43 pm Dumbass thinks I'm Mafia. News at 11.
Lynch spiritchuck or MP imo.
When I get lynched you are going to be forced to admit you don't know how to read me at all. All the stuff you say here is bullshit, and I do not use that word lightly. You just have no idea how I really play, what is going through my head, and why I do the things I do. I'm not going to answer your post point by point - you'll say it's because I'm caught - maybe everyone will say that and vote for me which would be a relief. If everyone thinks I'm bad just vote me out of the game for God's sake. But that's not the reason I'm not going through this point by point. I've tried explaining myself over and over again. I'm tired. But when I flip don't blame me for not fighting hard enough, I've been fighting for days. Too many people think they have me all figured out - and they are wrong, including you.Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:19 pm A juliets case:
My primary concern with juliets is that her play here is lacking its normal inquisitiveness. She's usually one of the players who makes things happen. That doesn't necessarily mean she's always among the most vocal, rather that she always brings a fresh perspective to things and is never afraid to speak her mind and ask people pointed, direct questions when she needs to. After she is hit with some Day 0 accusations she throws up her hands and says "I'm not sure what there is to dig on" before going into a long apology for that position. It reads as anti-juliets to me.Spoiler: show
I didn't understand this question at the time and I don't recall there being any follow up to it. I'll keep an eye out, but if there isn't anything beyond this then it serves as a good example of what I mean when I say she's not asking "pointed and direct" questions as per usual.juliets wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:03 pmSo if I'm civ, do you still have a civ read on dunya?
I asked juliets this question because she's usually good at finding things to have opinions on, a great quality for a Day 1 civilian to have. She throws up her hands again and says nothing. But I'll give her the benefit of doubt and say she's allowed to wait for more stuff to happen.
Here is a response to the question I highlighted earlier, but I would not call it a proper follow-up, as she's being asked to clarify by dunya here. I'd also like to highlight another sentence that I read as anti-juliets:I have a hard time believing juliets would struggle this much to develop reads in a game as busy as this one. I've seen her do more with less.at the times I posted yesterday I didn't see anything that made me curious. That's just the way it is.
I agree with this self-assessment, but I suspect her because I don't think it matches her play this game.juliets wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:20 pmI don't come out of the gate with names to get people talking or voting. I have a different approach to playing - not right or wrong but different. I don't defend well when I haven't done anything yet. I ask a lot of questions and then think about them for awhile unless something really sticks out to me. Things like that.
While I don't want to drag up juliets' past scum performance for serious analysis here, I have found it odd that she's repeatedly denied doing anything different in her previous scum game from her normal play. I read it as an attempt to completely discredit a line of suspicion against her without justification. I read that as a bad thing.juliets wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:38 pmYes, and I'm not sure what Sloonei is talking about. I was asking questions in day 1 which is my norm.dunya wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:36 pmif you're on a mafia team in a game with 2 mafia teams, i feel like you can authentically scum hunt itt much more easily.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:31 pmHow does that come into play?dunya wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:27 pmdidn't a world asunder have 2 mafia teams though?Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:17 pmLet’s talk about that. When she ws caught in A World Asunder, she responded by doing the exact things which it had been noted she’d not done up until that point.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:32 pm Little surge of activity from Juliet, and a lot of inquiries in a very short amount of time. Exactly what Dunya said she would expect from civ juliets.
Omoshiroi
I didn't love this post (I still feel iffy about juliets claiming she had nothing to say), but it at least compelled me to give her space. This is why I never voted for her until a moment ago. Despite what she says here, it seemed that the suspicion was altering her play this game. I wanted to see how she'd do with less pressure on her. The results, as should be clear by now, did not inspire me to change my mind. I think her frustration here is genuine, but I don't think frustration needs to equate to being town.juliets wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:43 pm So let me tell you guys one more time. I was here early this morning. Nothing that I thought was substantive had happened yet. I got off work at 4:00 and got to the thread sometime between 4:30 and 5:00 and saw several things I wanted to comment on/question and so I did. Just because someone suspects me doesn't mean I am going to shut down my play style. You can try to make it into something it isn't which is what you guys are doing but it is not what you're trying to make it. I was the same in Asunder as I have been in every other game I play - asking questions. That's the last I'll say about yesterday/today unless I'm asked a specific question.
I prompted her to jump into the Day 1 festivities after she'd apparently given up. First of all, juliets doesn't usually need this prompt. Second, she picked on two absentees to that point, and did not highlight any actual in-thread content. More anti-juliets stuff.juliets wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:28 pmI think Colin or speed or maybe both are bad. Colin was here but didn't make posts to further the game. I gave speed a bye for not posting much yesterday but he's had plenty of time today. For the time being I'll put my vote on Colin since he's actually been here more than speed.
She repeatedly resisted all reads on Macdougall, but I don't really see her making an effort to develop a read of her own (to be fair, she previously mentioned that she has given up trying to question Mac early in games, which is fair. Certain players can be counted on to reveal themselves all on their own over the course of the game. Mac is one of them.)
Colin shows up and makes a small flurry of posts. Juliets, who had previously voted for Colin, takes his posts in stride and moves to speedchuck. I'm concerned. She had previously been suspicious enough of Colin to vote for him, and now that he's here he gets an uncritical pass as we move on to the next absent player in speedchuck. Why isn't juliets questioning him here? I feel like she normally would be.
Early middle stages of Day 1 and juliets is voting the placeholder option. Eh.
These are reads, which is good. The only scum read she qualifies at all is luna, and she qualifies it to say that "luna always looks bad" to her. That is less good. But let's see how she follows up on this list...juliets wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:17 pm I'm ready to put dunya in my town basket based on what I've seen so far. I like how she compares to her U-Pick self. Mac is off the table for this lynch for me. dunya knows his game well and she is calling him town, and I'm town reading her. I believe he is posting a little less than usual because of his real life situation. I believe Mongoose when she says she forgot the game so even though she hasn't shown us a lot of behavior I find her post about that authentic. I don't think she would forget the game if she was bad so I'm town reading her. So, my town reads so far are:
dunya
Mac
Mongoose
Sloonei
That leaves:
Colin
speed
Luna*
MP
Nova
that I'm not ready to rule out yet.
* Luna always looks bad to me. I have to find better ways to differentiate bad Luna from good Luna, but since I can't rule her out at this point she stays in my POE.
Mechanics question: can someone help me on how to read the matrix? Am I looking at A, B, or C as the possibilities or 1, 2, or 3?
Some stuff about nova.[url] I mostly don't object to this stuff, though it's not all that substantial. She does raise the issue of her play in A World Asunder again, which remains a concern. At this point I mentioned that I was the one who brought this up, not nova, and she called it a "bad look" for me as well but still maintained her town read on me.juliets wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:32 pmI didn't like his post about Mac "emulating" supatown Mac and his explanation didn't hold water for me. I also don't know what he's talking about re: my behavior in World Asunder. I was asking questions early on in that game, nothing anyone said changed my behavior. I also didn't like this post:
Mongoose's comment "Third time's the charm" sounds just like something she would say. It's talking about her history here since she's been back. I don't think it's a bad look at all and it seems like he's nitpicking.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:28 pmAppeal to history? Appeal to emotions?
Not a good look madam
So, all that keep him in my POE for now.
She spent a big part of last night combing the thread for town reads and accusations. This is a potentially useful exercise if one wields the information properly. So what did she do? Did she do things? Let's find out.
No. She did not. I've played too many games with a civilian juliets to believe that she'd spend that much time looking at data only to arrive at zero conclusions.juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:04 amSloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:24 pm I’d like to hear what @juliets has to say about a the reads she’s been compiling.
Are you talking about the lists I compiled for Mac? I was surprised there weren't more people challenging others mafia reads. Nothing struck me about the few instances I found. On the people who declared others town early in the game I expected to find what I found. People were throwing around names for civs early, and people were asking for reads so I'm not surprised there were civ reads. I don't really know why Mac wanted me to pull the lists together, he never explained.
There were also a couple other posts of hers in the last few hours that pinged me slightly along similar lines to what I've laid out elsewhere in this post:
[url=http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=1738&p=520867#p520867]This post in which she discusses low-posting but gives out free passes to several players in the game, and a couple subsequent posts where she backs away from suspecting Colin. The problem I have with this is that she never seemed to apply any pressure to Colin whatsoever. He's not been totally absent. She's had plenty of opportunity to ask him questions, per her M.O., but she never did anything of the sort. She maintained a soft, vague suspicion on him and then backed off it the moment she was challenged. She has since dropped a vote on speedyo:Her vote is on the quietest player in the game. I don't see her doing any investigative work to find a better candidate. I can usually count on juliets to be one of the people most apt to do that. She also defends her past scum behavior again and insists that she's being her usual town self, but... I've spent this whole Day phase looking for Town Juliets and I can't find her. Not here, at least.juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:16 am I will be at work today until late this afternoon. I put a vote on sprityo because I don't like the way he entered the thread and speed before him didn't do anything.
If you are considering voting for me because you think this is my baddie meta I beg you to go look at a game where I was civ. My behavior in Asunder was my civ behavior because I was hunting another team. You will see in other games that I question and prod and ask opinions because as I said earlier, that's the way I assimilate the game as well as hunt. I don't always do something right away in the thread with the information I glean but every answer I get informs my opinions and next steps. This is just the way I play.
Ok I'm off for the day. I should be back before EOD but I won't have much time.
Wait - I'm using something "not in the game thread"?? You literally posted your comment in the game thread. Just because it's blue doesn't mean it's not in the thread. Everything counts in the thread.
I'm not lynching Juliets lol.juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:29 pmWhen I get lynched you are going to be forced to admit you don't know how to read me at all. All the stuff you say here is bullshit, and I do not use that word lightly. You just have no idea how I really play, what is going through my head, and why I do the things I do. I'm not going to answer your post point by point - you'll say it's because I'm caught - maybe everyone will say that and vote for me which would be a relief. If everyone thinks I'm bad just vote me out of the game for God's sake. But that's not the reason I'm not going through this point by point. I've tried explaining myself over and over again. I'm tired. But when I flip don't blame me for not fighting hard enough, I've been fighting for days. Too many people think they have me all figured out - and they are wrong, including you.Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:19 pm A juliets case:
My primary concern with juliets is that her play here is lacking its normal inquisitiveness. She's usually one of the players who makes things happen. That doesn't necessarily mean she's always among the most vocal, rather that she always brings a fresh perspective to things and is never afraid to speak her mind and ask people pointed, direct questions when she needs to. After she is hit with some Day 0 accusations she throws up her hands and says "I'm not sure what there is to dig on" before going into a long apology for that position. It reads as anti-juliets to me.Spoiler: show
I didn't understand this question at the time and I don't recall there being any follow up to it. I'll keep an eye out, but if there isn't anything beyond this then it serves as a good example of what I mean when I say she's not asking "pointed and direct" questions as per usual.juliets wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:03 pmSo if I'm civ, do you still have a civ read on dunya?
I asked juliets this question because she's usually good at finding things to have opinions on, a great quality for a Day 1 civilian to have. She throws up her hands again and says nothing. But I'll give her the benefit of doubt and say she's allowed to wait for more stuff to happen.
Here is a response to the question I highlighted earlier, but I would not call it a proper follow-up, as she's being asked to clarify by dunya here. I'd also like to highlight another sentence that I read as anti-juliets:I have a hard time believing juliets would struggle this much to develop reads in a game as busy as this one. I've seen her do more with less.at the times I posted yesterday I didn't see anything that made me curious. That's just the way it is.
I agree with this self-assessment, but I suspect her because I don't think it matches her play this game.juliets wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:20 pmI don't come out of the gate with names to get people talking or voting. I have a different approach to playing - not right or wrong but different. I don't defend well when I haven't done anything yet. I ask a lot of questions and then think about them for awhile unless something really sticks out to me. Things like that.
While I don't want to drag up juliets' past scum performance for serious analysis here, I have found it odd that she's repeatedly denied doing anything different in her previous scum game from her normal play. I read it as an attempt to completely discredit a line of suspicion against her without justification. I read that as a bad thing.juliets wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:38 pmYes, and I'm not sure what Sloonei is talking about. I was asking questions in day 1 which is my norm.dunya wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:36 pmif you're on a mafia team in a game with 2 mafia teams, i feel like you can authentically scum hunt itt much more easily.
I didn't love this post (I still feel iffy about juliets claiming she had nothing to say), but it at least compelled me to give her space. This is why I never voted for her until a moment ago. Despite what she says here, it seemed that the suspicion was altering her play this game. I wanted to see how she'd do with less pressure on her. The results, as should be clear by now, did not inspire me to change my mind. I think her frustration here is genuine, but I don't think frustration needs to equate to being town.juliets wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:43 pm So let me tell you guys one more time. I was here early this morning. Nothing that I thought was substantive had happened yet. I got off work at 4:00 and got to the thread sometime between 4:30 and 5:00 and saw several things I wanted to comment on/question and so I did. Just because someone suspects me doesn't mean I am going to shut down my play style. You can try to make it into something it isn't which is what you guys are doing but it is not what you're trying to make it. I was the same in Asunder as I have been in every other game I play - asking questions. That's the last I'll say about yesterday/today unless I'm asked a specific question.
I prompted her to jump into the Day 1 festivities after she'd apparently given up. First of all, juliets doesn't usually need this prompt. Second, she picked on two absentees to that point, and did not highlight any actual in-thread content. More anti-juliets stuff.juliets wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:28 pmI think Colin or speed or maybe both are bad. Colin was here but didn't make posts to further the game. I gave speed a bye for not posting much yesterday but he's had plenty of time today. For the time being I'll put my vote on Colin since he's actually been here more than speed.
She repeatedly resisted all reads on Macdougall, but I don't really see her making an effort to develop a read of her own (to be fair, she previously mentioned that she has given up trying to question Mac early in games, which is fair. Certain players can be counted on to reveal themselves all on their own over the course of the game. Mac is one of them.)
Colin shows up and makes a small flurry of posts. Juliets, who had previously voted for Colin, takes his posts in stride and moves to speedchuck. I'm concerned. She had previously been suspicious enough of Colin to vote for him, and now that he's here he gets an uncritical pass as we move on to the next absent player in speedchuck. Why isn't juliets questioning him here? I feel like she normally would be.
Early middle stages of Day 1 and juliets is voting the placeholder option. Eh.
These are reads, which is good. The only scum read she qualifies at all is luna, and she qualifies it to say that "luna always looks bad" to her. That is less good. But let's see how she follows up on this list...juliets wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:17 pm I'm ready to put dunya in my town basket based on what I've seen so far. I like how she compares to her U-Pick self. Mac is off the table for this lynch for me. dunya knows his game well and she is calling him town, and I'm town reading her. I believe he is posting a little less than usual because of his real life situation. I believe Mongoose when she says she forgot the game so even though she hasn't shown us a lot of behavior I find her post about that authentic. I don't think she would forget the game if she was bad so I'm town reading her. So, my town reads so far are:
dunya
Mac
Mongoose
Sloonei
That leaves:
Colin
speed
Luna*
MP
Nova
that I'm not ready to rule out yet.
* Luna always looks bad to me. I have to find better ways to differentiate bad Luna from good Luna, but since I can't rule her out at this point she stays in my POE.
Mechanics question: can someone help me on how to read the matrix? Am I looking at A, B, or C as the possibilities or 1, 2, or 3?
Some stuff about nova.[url] I mostly don't object to this stuff, though it's not all that substantial. She does raise the issue of her play in A World Asunder again, which remains a concern. At this point I mentioned that I was the one who brought this up, not nova, and she called it a "bad look" for me as well but still maintained her town read on me.juliets wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:32 pmI didn't like his post about Mac "emulating" supatown Mac and his explanation didn't hold water for me. I also don't know what he's talking about re: my behavior in World Asunder. I was asking questions early on in that game, nothing anyone said changed my behavior. I also didn't like this post:
Mongoose's comment "Third time's the charm" sounds just like something she would say. It's talking about her history here since she's been back. I don't think it's a bad look at all and it seems like he's nitpicking.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:28 pmAppeal to history? Appeal to emotions?
Not a good look madam
So, all that keep him in my POE for now.
She spent a big part of last night combing the thread for town reads and accusations. This is a potentially useful exercise if one wields the information properly. So what did she do? Did she do things? Let's find out.
No. She did not. I've played too many games with a civilian juliets to believe that she'd spend that much time looking at data only to arrive at zero conclusions.juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:04 amSloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:24 pm I’d like to hear what @juliets has to say about a the reads she’s been compiling.
Are you talking about the lists I compiled for Mac? I was surprised there weren't more people challenging others mafia reads. Nothing struck me about the few instances I found. On the people who declared others town early in the game I expected to find what I found. People were throwing around names for civs early, and people were asking for reads so I'm not surprised there were civ reads. I don't really know why Mac wanted me to pull the lists together, he never explained.
There were also a couple other posts of hers in the last few hours that pinged me slightly along similar lines to what I've laid out elsewhere in this post:
[url=http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=1738&p=520867#p520867]This post in which she discusses low-posting but gives out free passes to several players in the game, and a couple subsequent posts where she backs away from suspecting Colin. The problem I have with this is that she never seemed to apply any pressure to Colin whatsoever. He's not been totally absent. She's had plenty of opportunity to ask him questions, per her M.O., but she never did anything of the sort. She maintained a soft, vague suspicion on him and then backed off it the moment she was challenged. She has since dropped a vote on speedyo:Her vote is on the quietest player in the game. I don't see her doing any investigative work to find a better candidate. I can usually count on juliets to be one of the people most apt to do that. She also defends her past scum behavior again and insists that she's being her usual town self, but... I've spent this whole Day phase looking for Town Juliets and I can't find her. Not here, at least.juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:16 am I will be at work today until late this afternoon. I put a vote on sprityo because I don't like the way he entered the thread and speed before him didn't do anything.
If you are considering voting for me because you think this is my baddie meta I beg you to go look at a game where I was civ. My behavior in Asunder was my civ behavior because I was hunting another team. You will see in other games that I question and prod and ask opinions because as I said earlier, that's the way I assimilate the game as well as hunt. I don't always do something right away in the thread with the information I glean but every answer I get informs my opinions and next steps. This is just the way I play.
Ok I'm off for the day. I should be back before EOD but I won't have much time.
I’ve been reticent to bring her up all day because you always get that as a response but I’ve been consistent on having her listed as who I feel the least best about. I can’t not pick her though just because she voted for me. Hope that makes sense
that's ok, i'm not looking to be townread by a mafioso who knows i'm town
Using something as evidence prior to me having any game knowledge is in poor tastejuliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:31 pmWait - I'm using something "not in the game thread"?? You literally posted your comment in the game thread. Just because it's blue doesn't mean it's not in the thread. Everything counts in the thread.
[mention]sprityo[/mention] I mentioned it because it looked like you were paying some attention to the thread at that point. Using something that's in the thread is not in poor taste - people say things in OT green that are relevant. But ok I'll set that aside. Yesterday evening I read the thread twice in an effort to do something Mac wanted me to do, so I know it doesn't take all that long to read through. Have you done that? If not why not? If so, where are your thoughts? Or did you replace a scum so you're just skating for a bit because people don't expect you to have done anything? These are my concerns.sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:00 pmUsing something as evidence prior to me having any game knowledge is in poor tastejuliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:31 pmWait - I'm using something "not in the game thread"?? You literally posted your comment in the game thread. Just because it's blue doesn't mean it's not in the thread. Everything counts in the thread.
You didn’t specifically use it in that context but you appear to use it as a lead into your next post to put blame on me
That’s all I’m seeing
no, i havent. i haven't set aside time to do so
Why would you chill as a civ? None of the rest of us are chilling' - that's a good way to lose. And I don't have to wait for you to be ready.sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:10 pmno, i havent. i haven't set aside time to do so
if i replaced scum i wouldnt sit back and chill when day one is really important. especially when we're in the 10 person setup with a doublevoter.
I'm here to fill, im sorry but you'll have to just wait for me to be ready to do something and settle with that.
let's lynch sprityo instead. he made no effort until he got some heat and now he's playing the "idgaf" attitude.MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:09 pm Nobody knows who or what to lynch. So let's lynch MP. Easy done.
Folks, is this your town Mac?MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:09 pm Nobody knows who or what to lynch. So let's lynch MP. Easy done.
yeah.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:15 pmFolks, is this your town Mac?MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:09 pm Nobody knows who or what to lynch. So let's lynch MP. Easy done.
I did.
