The Syndicate

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:03 am**

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:49 am jay, what’s your read on me now?

Gun to my head you’re town. I leave a little room for doubt, perhaps with S7 finale bias, given the strange dichotomy that created itself between you and Alison.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:03 am**

I will testify that NAA does have a record of going "I'm just going to sheep X" blindly, but he usually does it with players he knows well from Mafia 451.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:07 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:03 am I will testify that NAA does have a record of going "I'm just going to sheep X" blindly, but he usually does it with players he knows well from Mafia 451.

Generally agreed, though I’d expand that last phrase to “anyone he has seen produce results”. On that level I am not shocked by “sheep Alison” as a strategy even if I am not convinced by it as appropriate in the absence of having a read on Alison.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:07 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:03 am
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:51 am @Alison is wanting to sheep you normal for NAA? how does he usually approach you as v?
1) No.
2) These are the games I've had with v!NAA.

- Basic Mafia (V/V), where I explicitly asked to be sheeped because I had a very confident read. He did not do this.
- Bonk! Mafia (V/M), where I replaced into an outed scum slot and got instantly voted out by everyone.
- Lost in Space Mafia (V/M), where he correctly suspected me for voting a villager at D1 and buried me D2.
- GOC (V/V), where he received a role that gave him rewards if he faked and held a cop check; he faked a red check on me, and a member of the mafia opportunistically used this chance to dayvig me.

As you can see, he doesn't have a track record of sheeping me when he is town, regardless of my alignment. This is why I was skeptical of his decision to do so this game, with very little reason.

I do think NAA has track record of sheeping a player in the game who has a lot of threadclout or towncred.

He openly steeped JJJ in Fleabag
He openly steeped me in Team Fortress

I don't recall what his scum meta is like though

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:07 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:03 am
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:51 am @Alison is wanting to sheep you normal for NAA? how does he usually approach you as v?
1) No.
2) These are the games I've had with v!NAA.

- Basic Mafia (V/V), where I explicitly asked to be sheeped because I had a very confident read. He did not do this.
- Bonk! Mafia (V/M), where I replaced into an outed scum slot and got instantly voted out by everyone.
- Lost in Space Mafia (V/M), where he correctly suspected me for voting a villager at D1 and buried me D2.
- GOC (V/V), where he received a role that gave him rewards if he faked and held a cop check; he faked a red check on me, and a member of the mafia opportunistically used this chance to dayvig me.

As you can see, he doesn't have a track record of sheeping me when he is town, regardless of my alignment. This is why I was skeptical of his decision to do so this game, with very little reason.

thanks

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:07 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:03 am
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:49 am jay, what’s your read on me now?
Gun to my head you’re town. I leave a little room for doubt, perhaps with S7 finale bias, given the strange dichotomy that created itself between you and Alison.

Why is there a dichotomy? I am hard townreading Hally. Hally is presumably hard townreading themselves, and has stated they don't want to kill me D1.

This doesn't seem to be a "difference check" kind of dynamic.

I am now suspicious that you are pulling on my earlier "Hally and Alison aren't V/V for these reasons" post to push a false narrative.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:09 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:03 am
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:49 am jay, what’s your read on me now?
Gun to my head you’re town. I leave a little room for doubt, perhaps with S7 finale bias, given the strange dichotomy that created itself between you and Alison.

i don’t know if alison and i are really a dichotomy anymore

she’s v reading me now and i’m making an effort to explore outside of her

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:12 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:07 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:03 am
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:49 am jay, what’s your read on me now?
Gun to my head you’re town. I leave a little room for doubt, perhaps with S7 finale bias, given the strange dichotomy that created itself between you and Alison.
Why is there a dichotomy? I am hard townreading Hally. Hally is presumably hard townreading themselves, and has stated they don't want to kill me D1.

This doesn't seem to be a "difference check" kind of dynamic.

I am now suspicious that you are pulling on my earlier "Hally and Alison aren't V/V for these reasons" post to push a false narrative.

I rarely adopt “difference check” reads. I think there’s a reasonable enough chance that if you’re town your initial instinct on Hally was well-founded. I think that if Hally is town, their view of you has mapped closely to mine and would provide me with additional confidence that you are not town.

It doesn’t have to be a dichotomy. There’s no reason you cannot both be town. I think Hally looks more town than you look. I am not extremely confident.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:12 am**

Hally needs to go farm experience killing axeholes before they can take on the final boss Akemi Homura.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:13 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:12 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:07 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:03 am
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:49 am jay, what’s your read on me now?
Gun to my head you’re town. I leave a little room for doubt, perhaps with S7 finale bias, given the strange dichotomy that created itself between you and Alison.
Why is there a dichotomy? I am hard townreading Hally. Hally is presumably hard townreading themselves, and has stated they don't want to kill me D1.

This doesn't seem to be a "difference check" kind of dynamic.

I am now suspicious that you are pulling on my earlier "Hally and Alison aren't V/V for these reasons" post to push a false narrative.
I rarely adopt “difference check” reads. I think there’s a reasonable enough chance that if you’re town your initial instinct on Hally was well-founded. I think that if Hally is town, their view of you has mapped closely to mine and would provide me with additional confidence that you are not town.

It doesn’t have to be a dichotomy. There’s no reason you cannot both be town. I think Hally looks more town than you look. I am not extremely confident.

I see, I thought dichotomy = difference check or something similar.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:15 am**

jay, the reason i asked is because i think my posting has improved a lot since the beginning (though i don’t think it was even actually bad) but unlike the other people who suspected me early you didn’t acknowledge that

also not sure why you’re bringing up S7 finale? do you think i’m similar to there? i don’t remember you ever bringing it up when we’ve been v/v since

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:15 am**

My initial instinct on Hally was that they were scum, but as I progressed talking with them, my scumread disappeared and after their bout of frustration I am now fully townreading them. If you think my read on Hally tends to be good, shouldn't you be townreading them in the world I am confirmed town? And if so, why is our dynamic a reason to have doubt on Hally?

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:16 am**

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:12 am Hally needs to go farm experience killing axeholes before they can take on the final boss Akemi Homura.

Akemi Homura has canonically escaped death nearly 100 times. It is not easy to kill her.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:17 am**

In this case it is the perception of dichotomy I reference more than a literal dichotomous relationship — there was a climate in the thread that had me briefly viewing the game with separate “Alison+” or “Hally+” mafia team theories.

I don’t think I am there now. It still echoes in my brain a little bit and creates some measure of “doubt”, specifically in reference to my town read on Hally. It’s possible this is a laborious way to acknowledge my own preconception/bias.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:18 am**

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:15 am jay, the reason i asked is because i think my posting has improved a lot since the beginning (though i don’t think it was even actually bad) but unlike the other people who suspected me early you didn’t acknowledge that

also not sure why you’re bringing up S7 finale? do you think i’m similar to there? i don’t remember you ever bringing it up when we’ve been v/v since

I think we might have played 1-2 games since then. Whether you’re similar or not is unimportant. I remember being fooled for the long haul.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:19 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:17 am In this case it is the perception of dichotomy I reference more than a literal dichotomous relationship — there was a climate in the thread that had me briefly viewing the game with separate “Alison+” or “Hally+” mafia team theories.

I don’t think I am there now. It still echoes in my brain a little bit and creates some measure of “doubt”, specifically in reference to my town read on Hally. It’s possible this is a laborious way to acknowledge my own preconception/bias.

why are you voting nanook?

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:19 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:18 am
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:15 am jay, the reason i asked is because i think my posting has improved a lot since the beginning (though i don’t think it was even actually bad) but unlike the other people who suspected me early you didn’t acknowledge that

also not sure why you’re bringing up S7 finale? do you think i’m similar to there? i don’t remember you ever bringing it up when we’ve been v/v since
I think we might have played 1-2 games since then. Whether you’re similar or not is unimportant. I remember being fooled for the long haul.

it’s been more than that, though not a ton

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:20 am**

and fair i guess

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:21 am**

You’ll recall Hally that I shared my own dissonance about you in a one-off post a while ago — that I might town read you despite having just listed you as a suspect. It’s a slow wrestling match with myself here, but as I said previously: gun to head town read.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:22 am**

What's your take on Mac?

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:23 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:22 am What's your take on Mac?

me? gth v

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:23 am**

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:19 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:17 am In this case it is the perception of dichotomy I reference more than a literal dichotomous relationship — there was a climate in the thread that had me briefly viewing the game with separate “Alison+” or “Hally+” mafia team theories.

I don’t think I am there now. It still echoes in my brain a little bit and creates some measure of “doubt”, specifically in reference to my town read on Hally. It’s possible this is a laborious way to acknowledge my own preconception/bias.
why are you voting nanook?

He’s a suspect. I am really not paying attention to my vote right now; it’s very low on my priority list at this stage. I will poke around verbally and my vote will do whatever it do.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:24 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:22 am What's your take on Mac?

Seems fine. I think his reads look honest and they align mostly with mine.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:25 am**

@Master Radishes who’s mafia

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:30 am**

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:00 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:27 am Alison putting us near hammer now?

It may be a lazy vote, but I'll vote for that. Marmot and Alison are hammer enablers. Get em.

This one in particular has very little conviction, but it isn't a joke either, and can't seem to commit to any particular tone.

I know townies can be stiff. I do it all the time. But I've never seen wilgy have trouble entering games as town.

I think it's because i'm in a shitty mood tonight.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:30 am**

and also, I don't think I have the capacity to read all 10 pages, so I think I'll just poop on hammers.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:31 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:25 am @Master Radishes who’s mafia

Dunno.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:31 am**

Would be pretty funny if I hammered MR tho.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:32 am**

I've played 1.5 pages of shitposting stage Mafia. I have zero real reads.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:32 am**

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:31 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:25 am @Master Radishes who’s mafia
Dunno.

Werd

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:33 am**

Do I flip a coin to determine if you live or die MR?

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:34 am**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:33 am Do I flip a coin to determine if you live or die MR?

I'm - 2 still. If I self vote will you hammer me?

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:34 am**

I have a concern about Mac.

He says that he's been scumreading me ever since he said that he could be pocketed by wolves and I proceeded to townread him for shitty reasons. But he has not followed up on this read much, if at all. If anything, him speaking up about this read (which he's supposedly had for a while) was prompted by Hally's own suspicion on my slot.

This is concerning for two reasons.

1) He knows full well that I completely ignore posts like "now is the time to pocket me" or "sheep me if you want to pocket me!" and similar sentiments, because I find them to be annoying WIFOM, and that I consistently do this as both alignments.

2) Mac holds me to a high standards of reasoning. If he thought I was townreading him for shitty reasons, he should be grilling me or pushing me intensively. He certainly wouldn't want to allow scum Alison to skate by on bullshit. Yet it took another person scumreading me for him to mention this read, and then never bring it up again.

I would like thoughts on this concern.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:34 am**

He's voting me cause he's a basic bitch

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:35 am**

just checked and jay seems less awkward/stilted than in philosophy mafia 2

his posts there feel like a jaggedjimmyjay automaton

i would kinda expect his posts to be better here regardless though because afaik that was his first real wolf rand in a long while, but still probably a good look

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:36 am**

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:35 am just checked and jay seems less awkward/stilted than in philosophy mafia 2

his posts there feel like a jaggedjimmyjay automaton

i would kinda expect his posts to be better here regardless though because afaik that was his first real wolf rand in a long while, but still probably a good look

*regardless of his alignment i mean

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:37 am**

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:35 am just checked and jay seems less awkward/stilted than in philosophy mafia 2

his posts there feel like a jaggedjimmyjay automaton

i would kinda expect his posts to be better here regardless though because afaik that was his first real wolf rand in a long while, but still probably a good look

He subbed in for me in Bluey. I subbed out fairly quickly from that game due to illness, so that wasn't very far from a regular wolf rand (ie. his performance wouldn't be severely different due to the fact that it was a replacement). He did not feel like an automaton in that game.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:46 am**

was bluey a heist or a racket?

also acknowledged re: mac, think it’s a valid concern

i just spec’d him in a game on MU and he wolf read spf D1 (incorrectly), grilled her hard and pretty much would not let it go

when he’s a villager and wolf reads a strong wolf i do think he makes it his mission to run them out of the game, which i don’t see him doing with you

but i’m not sure how strong his wolf read on you was really

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:48 am**

i’m not really worried about sorting mac though

if he’s a villager i think i’ll find him before D1 is over

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:49 am**

Both Bluey and Phil2 ended for me with Marmot shooting me in the ass (either by vig or by vote). Just take his word for it I guess.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:54 am**

oh, i found bluey

jay’s posts are definitely way better/more natural there than in philo maf but it’s harder to really compare it to this game because he subbed in D2 after he had flips to fake solve off of, which i think makes it easier to generate content as a wolf

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:55 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:49 am Both Bluey and Phil2 ended for me with Marmot shooting me in the ass (either by vig or by vote). Just take his word for it I guess.

@Marmot what’s jay’s alignment?

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:04 am**

ftr i still think jay is probably a villager but i feel less good about it than i did when i first v read him just because i feel like he’s hanging back despite being around a lot

i also am kinda worried i gave dizzy too much of a pass but might just be my tired brain talking

sleeping for real now (but actually this time)

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:07 am**

Definitely hanging back. Don’t have the spark I once did. But I can be a silly butt in the game thread and give reads once in a while. This is me now

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:12 am**

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:34 am I have a concern about Mac.

He says that he's been scumreading me ever since he said that he could be pocketed by wolves and I proceeded to townread him for shitty reasons. But he has not followed up on this read much, if at all. If anything, him speaking up about this read (which he's supposedly had for a while) was prompted by Hally's own suspicion on my slot.

This is concerning for two reasons.

1) He knows full well that I completely ignore posts like "now is the time to pocket me" or "sheep me if you want to pocket me!" and similar sentiments, because I find them to be annoying WIFOM, and that I consistently do this as both alignments.

2) Mac holds me to a high standards of reasoning. If he thought I was townreading him for shitty reasons, he should be grilling me or pushing me intensively. He certainly wouldn't want to allow scum Alison to skate by on bullshit. Yet it took another person scumreading me for him to mention this read, and then never bring it up again.

I would like thoughts on this concern.

I should be I suppose but I'm just not cuz I just haven't. Maybe it's cuz I've seen you get chopped as mafia a lot lately and am not so worried about you?

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:38 am**

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:28 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:19 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:55 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:54 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:53 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:49 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:47 pm i’m gonna be really annoyed if both alison and NAA are v
I get why you'd be annoyed if NAA is V treating you like this, but what did I do?
i probably shouldn’t lump you in with him

was annoyed at you earlier because it felt like you weren’t even trying to find me and were trying to pigeonhole me into your logic with the dizzy thing and then seriously asking me why i wouldn’t be ok blindly sheeping you when i don’t v read you and you wolf read me

just frankly asinine things that i have a hard time seeing you come at me with as a villager

but you’ve dropped it now so hopefully that’s the end of that
All of those things are reaction tests.
your entire push on me was a reaction test?
This seems kinda Alison 101 lmao

Also I think the main reason for my Alison tr is presentation, still having trouble describing it but there's an efficiency to it, she gets to the point quickly and bluntly in a way that looks designed to hit harder when you read it
Just makes me actually believe she's trying to stir the thread, and I also think it describes what I've seen of v!Alison better than what I've seen of w!Alison

And generally she seems to not have any kind of schedule for who she pressures and when but these reads are always wrong from me so take that one with a grain of salt
the thing is i don’t really buy that it was all a reaction test - that feels like a retcon because i wolf read her push on me and she probably wasn’t expecting that because i tend not to OMGUS

also re: the rest, the reason i think she’s wolfy is because i think v!alison is generally more measured and reasonable (albeit still forceful) whereas here i feel like she’s been going 1000mph trying to engineer something to push on that will stick, and that just feels like how i expect a wolf of her archetype to play in a strong player list where she knows if she’s not aggressive pushing her agenda she’s going to get boxed out of the thread very quickly

Not me thinking "Yeah, that makes sense" to both of these takes lol

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:44 am**

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:20 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:17 am There are hammers and you put me at 4?

holy shit, marmot you goomba.

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine
Don't worry, I voted you first and looked at the rules later

Looking at the rules already is very suspicious

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:46 am**

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:32 am does anyone have a reason NAA is a villager?

Well, his reads seems pretty bad.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:47 am**

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:48 amdidn’t seem like it from how she followed it up/the context but apparently i’m unable to tell when alison is joking

To be fair, her standup routine has been a bit weird this game.

Also you have been a bit weird, possibly by being more involved than anyone.

So your interaction is just weird.

Weird.

Posted: **Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:49 am**

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:31 am Hammers are bad when I've read 2.4 pages.

Quick reaction, this post is towny

The Syndicate

Highway Heist (MAFIA WIN)

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