The Syndicate

bea wrote:Rip Russ.

@DP - if you had to pick your top 3 suspects right now, who would they be and why?

Who are yours?

DharmaHelper wrote:

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:I don't know if I'm a fan of seeing the extreme emotional response as a civ thing. I probably get even more frustrated when I'm caught as a baddie (although I try not to show it when that happens ). Of course I can't compare others to myself, but I don't know if I could get behind that.

Would you cuss anyone out if you were a baddie?

Hard to say. I don't believe I'd cuss anyone out regardless of alignment. I've never really gotten that incensed.

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:I don't know if I'm a fan of seeing the extreme emotional response as a civ thing. I probably get even more frustrated when I'm caught as a baddie (although I try not to show it when that happens ). Of course I can't compare others to myself, but I don't know if I could get behind that.

Would you cuss anyone out if you were a baddie?

Hard to say. I don't believe I'd cuss anyone out regardless of alignment. I've never really gotten that incensed.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't have believed I'd do it anyway

I mean either, not any way

DP - I'm not not sure I've ever seen you show any excitement that wasn't hockey or music related. What do you think of Mata? I'm curious as to how you are reading her after your musketeer stint in Recruitment.

FZ - at the moment, I am doing that weird talking myself into and out of suspicions. I am worried about Mata -hence me asking DP about him, but it's nothing I can put my finger on in posts. I still feel pretty uneasy about boo - I keep flip flopping how I feel about epi and DH. One minute they read bad to me and the next they don't. I read your frustration as genuine the other day btw. IDK about where I stand on you. One thing kinda bothers me though - why did you vote me? I was in the middle of signing papers on my new car when I was trying to read all that and vote, but before when I was online you said you felt better about me. What changed your mind?

linki - Don't loose any sleep over it sweetie. We've all done is and some of us far worse than you. *hides hed* - It's easy to get over emotional during these things.

bea wrote:DP - I'm not not sure I've ever seen you show any excitement that wasn't hockey or music related. What do you think of Mata? I'm curious as to how you are reading her after your musketeer stint in Recruitment.

FZ - at the moment, I am doing that weird talking myself into and out of suspicions. I am worried about Mata -hence me asking DP about him, but it's nothing I can put my finger on in posts. I still feel pretty uneasy about boo - I keep flip flopping how I feel about epi and DH. One minute they read bad to me and the next they don't. I read your frustration as genuine the other day btw. IDK about where I stand on you. One thing kinda bothers me though - why did you vote me? I was in the middle of signing papers on my new car when I was trying to read all that and vote, but before when I was online you said you felt better about me. What changed your mind?

linki - Don't loose any sleep over it sweetie. We've all done is and some of us far worse than you. *hides hed* - It's easy to get over emotional during these things.

I'm also curious about Mata, but I have no idea how she plays. She asks good questions, but she can easily do it as a baddie.
With DH, I've felt pretty good about him the whole game, and now that he can easily join the lynch on me, he's choosing to use his feeling that I wouldn't do something like that as a civ, as a reason. I kind of like the fact that he's not following the crowd, but I don't know. Maybe I'm biased.
Epi, most of the time I think he's okay. His frustration when being accused felt genuine earlier in the game, and he seems very convinced I'm bad, and actually, I do appreciate him going to look for my baddie game. Other things he's done make me think that he's not that good.
I voted for you, because I felt Made was being wrongly lynched, and I definitely knew I was being wrongly lynched, so out of those with votes, I felt more comfortable voting for you. The thing with Boo and you has got me quite interested, but also confused. It's like there's suspicion going on which is on a low burner but is there, yet nothing happens, and no one is really paying attention to it. I don't like when people go for the obvious. Yes, it works sometimes, but most of the times, you lynch civvies.

Boo strikes me as an intelligent player and when he posts, it usually makes a lot of sense, but it also seems like he's on the outskirts looking in, afraid to get his hands dirty. Don't know what to make of it, because I don't know how he usually plays.

bea wrote:DP - I'm not not sure I've ever seen you show any excitement that wasn't hockey or music related. What do you think of Mata? I'm curious as to how you are reading her after your musketeer stint in Recruitment.

Quieter than I'm used to from her. And she's apparently paying attention according to herself so it's not that. I'll have to keep an eye on her.

bea wrote:Rip Russ.

@DP - if you had to pick your top 3 suspects right now, who would they be and why?

As for this, they're all dead. Well, not literally. I'm still paranoid about boo. There's still the matter of him often going after people I currently feel good about, and I think FZ made a good point about him. FZ herself I'm unsure about. I think Epi's case, while interesting, doesn't fully sway me. Her getting angry, as I mentioned, doesn't do anything to quell any suspicions I may have had, but there's not much to begin with. I'd need something bigger to want to vote FZ. Then there's TH, whom I just do not feel is trustworthy. And I know, aside from hockey and music I'm a boring person k.

RIP Russ

Another busy weekend but I'll be around properly tomorrow night to join in discussion. Sorry, work is proper getting in the way of my life atm

Its always nice to have a bit of suspicion so I'll take it

I will apologize for not being as vocal as I used to be. During my 8 months away, I got busy with a new life and have lots of new things keeping me busy. Currently working on a braided rug and at the moment, I have family in from Florida. But I'm not shirking the game, thats a promise. After dinner-party tonight, I'm going to make a list and post what I'm currently thinking about the players and who is making me wary.

Back to the puzzle, it's really important that we solve it

FZ. wrote:Back to the puzzle, it's really important that we solve it

I don't think we're getting anywhere on that front any time soon.

DharmaHelper wrote:

FZ. wrote:Back to the puzzle, it's really important that we solve it

I don't think we're getting anywhere on that front any time soon.

Do you think there was a point in taking letters? Was it for real, or is he just messing with us?

I just reread all of Russtifinko's posts. Twice.

This was Night 2:

Russtifinko wrote:I have good feels about FZ. so far, and though I don't have a strong read on Snowman I think the case on him was super weak, and that some people are being too hard on him.

Russ' last living post on Day 6:

Russtifinko wrote:Shocked as I am to say it, I think Epi is right here. FZ. keeps saying "look at me in a baddie game", and I damn sure didn't plan on doing that. It's plausible to think she figured no one would. In every game I've seen her be civ, she goes HARD after people she thinks are bad. I haven't seen that here.

Voting FZ.

Bass, how's that readthrough going, out of curiosity?

Oh! And major kudos to Epi for reading 69 pages of content to build a case. That rivals the hustle on your DH case earlier.

That's a 180 from Russ, and he never once expressed suspicion of FZ. prior to this. It was ONLY after 50 hours of silence that he came in and posted this, and then, understandably, elected not to post again.

Except for Eloh after L's message, Russ has never voted early, but on Day 6, he was the first to vote FZ. That he did so instead of voting for Made (the ONLY person Russ built a real case on) I believe is telling.

I also want to highlight that FZ. has downplayed evidence multiple times. If you are a detective, isn't evidence kind of important? She mentions that reads are basically gut, and claims that evidence, such as people's words, can be manipulated. You know what else can be manipulated? Your gut, and if you defended Snowman, your gut wasn't very good to start with, was it?

FZ. wrote:Back to the puzzle, it's really important that we solve it

You could just solve it using your gut.

My gut tells me that evildoers want us to believe that evidence is inherently to be distrusted because it can be manipulated.
My gut tells me that FZ. wanted to make Russtifinko sing and dance.
My gut tells me that Russtifinko needs her dead to win.

Russtifinko wrote:I know I've been after Epi for a few days now, and I still don't believe he's a True Blue detective, but I also don't think he's out to take us down. If he were the evil Epi I know, he'd be making vague threats and hinting that he's unlynchable by this point. I also think that despite his defeatism, we might be able to get him back in the game if we give him a little breathing room. So I won't be voting there today.

Russ, if you're reading, I formally apologize for Morton girling you. I will try to get you that W.

Also, DH, a few days back, you voted Epi and was sure he was bad. Do you still maintain that notion?

linki: If he needed me dead, it's not because I'm bad. Don't forget that if he did role check me out of everyone (why not do Made if he was relatively trusting me?), he had 50% chance of getting something else, so this "facts" you seem to be using to make me look bad, are rubbish.

As for the singing and dancing, you don't have to believe me, because obviously, you don't want to, but I skipped through the whole NK post to the end. I just saw a lot of green which looked like something. So if you're referring to that, I have no idea what singing and dancing he had to do.

And if your gut tells you something, you should obviously ignore it, because god forbid we use facts. You're such and incredible baddie hunter that you don't need facts. You've got the whole game pinned down

Sorry, meant "god forbid we use gut. We only use facts"

FZ. wrote:Also, DH, a few days back, you voted Epi and was sure he was bad. Do you still maintain that notion?

linki: If he needed me dead, it's not because I'm bad. Don't forget that if he did role check me out of everyone (why not do Made if he was relatively trusting me?), he had 50% chance of getting something else, so this "facts" you seem to be using to make me look bad, are rubbish.

As for the singing and dancing, you don't have to believe me, because obviously, you don't want to, but I skipped through the whole NK post to the end. I just saw a lot of green which looked like something. So if you're referring to that, I have no idea what singing and dancing he had to do.

And if your gut tells you something, you should obviously ignore it, because god forbid we use facts. You're such and incredible baddie hunter that you don't need facts. You've got the whole game pinned down

RE: Epi -

Meh.

Reiji Namikawa's additional secrets have been solved and revealed.

DharmaHelper wrote:

FZ. wrote:Also, DH, a few days back, you voted Epi and was sure he was bad. Do you still maintain that notion?

linki: If he needed me dead, it's not because I'm bad. Don't forget that if he did role check me out of everyone (why not do Made if he was relatively trusting me?), he had 50% chance of getting something else, so this "facts" you seem to be using to make me look bad, are rubbish.

As for the singing and dancing, you don't have to believe me, because obviously, you don't want to, but I skipped through the whole NK post to the end. I just saw a lot of green which looked like something. So if you're referring to that, I have no idea what singing and dancing he had to do.

And if your gut tells you something, you should obviously ignore it, because god forbid we use facts. You're such and incredible baddie hunter that you don't need facts. You've got the whole game pinned down

RE: Epi -

Meh.

I figured it out. Epi has to be L, "The world’s most renowned detective, L is incredibly intelligent, logical, and diligent"

MovingPictures07 wrote:Reiji Namikawa's additional secrets have been solved and revealed.

What? Well that is kind of neat.

FZ. wrote:Don't forget that if he did role check me out of everyone (why not do Made if he was relatively trusting me?), he had 50% chance of getting something else, so this "facts" you seem to be using to make me look bad, are rubbish.

"Rubbish" eh?

I anticipated this reply from you, but not such strong terminology. Let me ask you this: If you were Mogi, and you checked someone, would you dismiss it as "rubbish" because it was a 50% check? Would you refrain from using your ability and effectively be a vanilla civilian instead?

FZ. wrote:And if your gut tells you something, you should obviously ignore it, because god forbid we use facts. You're such and incredible baddie hunter that you don't need facts. You've got the whole game pinned down

Yeah, about things we have pinned down...

FZ. wrote:Honestly, I'm not even sure llama and Epi are really working for the good side. I think they're not even trying to look at things from all sides. When I'm a baddie, I often stick to my suspicions to not look like I'm flip flopping and to not get called out for "contradicting" back-pedalling" and all that.

I read your Star Trek game. You were a fish on hot pier.

FZ. wrote:

Epignosis wrote:The first thing that popped out at me was that you are too easily dissuaded, which matches your behavior here, I think.

You also threw out a lot of names early on, which is what you also did here.

Was Laura bad??? Was she my team mate? Sure, I go after civvies, and I back off. These are things I do both when a civ and a baddie. It's how we all play the game, isn't it?

You don't even have your story pinned down about your game as a villain, so it discredits your commentary regarding it.

A fish on a hot pier, yes sir.

And like a fish on a hot pier, you are slippery, don't smell right, and should be filleted.

Epignosis wrote:

FZ. wrote:Don't forget that if he did role check me out of everyone (why not do Made if he was relatively trusting me?), he had 50% chance of getting something else, so this "facts" you seem to be using to make me look bad, are rubbish.

"Rubbish" eh?

I anticipated this reply from you, but not such strong terminology. Let me ask you this: If you were Mogi, and you checked someone, would you dismiss it as "rubbish" because it was a 50% check? Would you refrain from using your ability and effectively be a vanilla civilian instead?I would use it, but I would be very hesitant in drawing conclusions that could lead to very bad actions. And my terminology is harsh, because I'm sick of defending myself. There's just so much fun a person can have in the game, when all they do is defend themselves. Don't worry,it's what you're supposed to do if you think I'm bad, but since I'm not, I don't have to like it.

FZ. wrote:And if your gut tells you something, you should obviously ignore it, because god forbid we use facts. You're such and incredible baddie hunter that you don't need facts. You've got the whole game pinned down

Yeah, about things we have pinned down...

FZ. wrote:Honestly, I'm not even sure llama and Epi are really working for the good side. I think they're not even trying to look at things from all sides. When I'm a baddie, I often stick to my suspicions to not look like I'm flip flopping and to not get called out for "contradicting" back-pedalling" and all that.

I read your Star Trek game. You were a fish on hot pier. See? Here is how you "use" facts. You ignore the word "often" and then twist it so it fits your theory. You have to remember that on K-site, people are a lot more familiar with me in both alignments, so I have to get out of my comfort zone and try and switch it and do things that people don't recognize as my baddie behaviour. The game you read is my last game as a baddie there. But of course, whatever fits your "facts"

FZ. wrote:

Epignosis wrote:The first thing that popped out at me was that you are too easily dissuaded, which matches your behavior here, I think.

You also threw out a lot of names early on, which is what you also did here. Again, did you compare this to my civvie game? Do I not throw a lot of names out there?

Was Laura bad??? Was she my team mate? Sure, I go after civvies, and I back off. These are things I do both when a civ and a baddie. It's how we all play the game, isn't it?

You don't even have your story pinned down about your game as a villain, so it discredits your commentary regarding it. I think we already established that what people believe about themselves is not always what they really do. But won't you enlighten me here. Do you have your game as a villain pinned down?

A fish on a hot pier, yes sir.

And like a fish on a hot pier, you are slippery, don't smell right, and should be filleted.

At least I'm not taking the whole civvies down, which is what you're doing by keeping twisting things the way you're doing. I'd rather be inconsistent, contradictory and what not instead of being narrow minded, and wrong

I just realized I'm back above 10% of the total posts. Fuck yeah.

I'm going to bed.
For those of you who vote early, if you're really interested in taking Kiras down, voting for me will not achieve that. I have no idea what Epi's role is and whether it's deliberate or not, but I do know he's wrong. I am not a baddie.

Since I'm sick of defending myself, I will likely stop doing it. If you have any specific question, I'll answer. If not, I'm just going to ignore posts asking you to lynch me or saying how this is something that has to be done, because it's a lie

Teru Mikami (X Kira)'s additional secrets have been solved and revealed.

This game y'all. This fuckin game.

Kyosuke Higuchi (Third Kira)'s additional secrets have been solved and revealed.

L's additional secrets have been solved and revealed.

Light Yagami (Kira)'s additional secrets have been solved and revealed.

Misa Amane (Second Kira)'s additional secrets have been solved and revealed.

FZ. wrote:I'm going to bed.
For those of you who vote early, if you're really interested in taking Kiras down, voting for me will not achieve that.

What evidence is there to support that? Like it or not, Mafia is a game of evidence. When it becomes a game of "gut" is the day it comes a game of chance.

FZ. wrote:I have no idea what Epi's role is and whether it's deliberate or not, but I do know he's wrong. I am not a baddie.

Yeah, everybody says that. Suppose you are bad. Would you say, "Hey, I don't know Epi's role, but I am a baddie!"

FZ. wrote:Since I'm sick of defending myself, I will likely stop doing it. If you have any specific question, I'll answer. If not, I'm just going to ignore posts asking you to lynch me or saying how this is something that has to be done, because it's a lie

I called you out Day 1 as bad. Do you remember why?

++++

I can't be assed to format this, so I'm going to respond 1 2 3.

FZ. wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

FZ. wrote:Don't forget that if he did role check me out of everyone (why not do Made if he was relatively trusting me?), he had 50% chance of getting something else, so this "facts" you seem to be using to make me look bad, are rubbish.

"Rubbish" eh?

I anticipated this reply from you, but not such strong terminology. Let me ask you this: If you were Mogi, and you checked someone, would you dismiss it as "rubbish" because it was a 50% check? Would you refrain from using your ability and effectively be a vanilla civilian instead?I would use it, but I would be very hesitant in drawing conclusions that could lead to very bad actions. And my terminology is harsh, because I'm sick of defending myself. There's just so much fun a person can have in the game, when all they do is defend themselves. Don't worry,it's what you're supposed to do if you think I'm bad, but since I'm not, I don't have to like it.

FZ. wrote:And if your gut tells you something, you should obviously ignore it, because god forbid we use facts. You're such and incredible baddie hunter that you don't need facts. You've got the whole game pinned down

Yeah, about things we have pinned down...

FZ. wrote:Honestly, I'm not even sure llama and Epi are really working for the good side. I think they're not even trying to look at things from all sides. When I'm a baddie, I often stick to my suspicions to not look like I'm flip flopping and to not get called out for "contradicting" back-pedalling" and all that.

I read your Star Trek game. You were a fish on hot pier. See? Here is how you "use" facts. You ignore the word "often" and then twist it so it fits your theory. You have to remember that on K-site, people are a lot more familiar with me in both alignments, so I have to get out of my comfort zone and try and switch it and do things that people don't recognize as my baddie behaviour. The game you read is my last game as a baddie there. But of course, whatever fits your "facts"

FZ. wrote:

Epignosis wrote:The first thing that popped out at me was that you are too easily dissuaded, which matches your behavior here, I think.

You also threw out a lot of names early on, which is what you also did here. Again, did you compare this to my civvie game? Do I not throw a lot of names out there?

Was Laura bad??? Was she my team mate? Sure, I go after civvies, and I back off. These are things I do both when a civ and a baddie. It's how we all play the game, isn't it?

You don't even have your story pinned down about your game as a villain, so it discredits your commentary regarding it. I think we already established that what people believe about themselves is not always what they really do. But won't you enlighten me here. Do you have your game as a villain pinned down?

A fish on a hot pier, yes sir.

And like a fish on a hot pier, you are slippery, don't smell right, and should be filleted.

At least I'm not taking the whole civvies down, which is what you're doing by keeping twisting things the way you're doing. I'd rather be inconsistent, contradictory and what not instead of being narrow minded, and wrong

1. I would use it, but I would be very hesitant in drawing conclusions that could lead to very bad actions. And my terminology is harsh, because I'm sick of defending myself. There's just so much fun a person can have in the game, when all they do is defend themselves. Don't worry,it's what you're supposed to do if you think I'm bad, but since I'm not, I don't have to like it.

This is why I know you aren't a detective. You know why I know that? You drew conclusions about Snowman. He was bad, and you defended him hard. Yet given a role that could inform you of someone's role, you cite caution. This is important- you weren't wishy-washy about Snowman. You were adamant. According to your answer above, you would be hesitant (not adamant) trusting your role power, but when Snowman was up for lynch, you were adamant he was good.

By the way, everyone watching: If you are a detective and given a 50% chance of knowing someone's role, you should initially assume that information is true and act accordingly. I'm serious. Read the Monty Hall Paradox if you don't believe me on this. It's not the same problem, but it's the same principle. And hell, even if your info is bad, you will generate more info in the form of reactions, so there's even more of an incentive.

2. See? Here is how you "use" facts. You ignore the word "often" and then twist it so it fits your theory. You have to remember that on K-site, people are a lot more familiar with me in both alignments, so I have to get out of my comfort zone and try and switch it and do things that people don't recognize as my baddie behaviour. The game you read is my last game as a baddie there. But of course, whatever fits your "facts"

Hahaha. Want to know something funny? I thought about omitting the word "often" just to see what you would say. So no, I didn't ignore it. I thought long and hard about it. In the end, I chose to be straightforward. What you are doing is telling us this: "I am X Y Z when I am bad" and also saying "I am not X Y Z when I am bad." That's duplicity. You want us to believe you regarding one set of facts, but you want us to ignore the other set of facts.

"Often" doesn't mean anything to me when you say it. It's an out. It's politician speak. It's how you get away with lying without actually lying. It's a fucking adverb.

3. I think we already established that what people believe about themselves is not always what they really do. But won't you enlighten me here. Do you have your game as a villain pinned down?

Yes. It's called "Win." And when I am bad, I rock at it. Look at my signature. Those are just wins here, and all of them save one are evil wins. So yes, I know what I do as a villain. But nobody else will know what that is. Do you want to know why? It's because when I am bad, I don't know what I will do. I do what has to be done to win.

That's why people who come in here yakking about "play style" this and "baddie game" that gain no trust from me. Those things are phantoms. If everybody had a civilian game and a bad game, everything would be obvious. But it ain't obvious, is it?

In your case, I actually read an entire game you were bad in. You know what you said now? Look at #2. You said this:

" You have to remember that on K-site, people are a lot more familiar with me in both alignments, so I have to get out of my comfort zone and try and switch it and do things that people don't recognize as my baddie behaviour. The game you read is my last game as a baddie there. But of course, whatever fits your "facts""

Now my read of you on your evil game isn't valid because I have to remember this and that about K-Site? What do you mean "remember?" I've never been on K-Site to play. You are creating excuses. I did exactly what you said to do. Go to K-Site and look at your "baddie game." I did it. And now there's stipulations?

You, madam, are evil, vile, and some other anagram of those letters, and worthy of a lynch.

Voted for Black Rock.

DH seems like its been a long time since we talked about Black Rock. Can you explain the reason? I've now got her in my head in the other game.

juliets wrote:DH seems like its been a long time since we talked about Black Rock. Can you explain the reason? I've now got her in my head in the other game.

In no particular order
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 37#p122637
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 23#p122623
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 02#p122602
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 25#p121625

FZ. wrote:

bea wrote:DP - I'm not not sure I've ever seen you show any excitement that wasn't hockey or music related. What do you think of Mata? I'm curious as to how you are reading her after your musketeer stint in Recruitment.

FZ - at the moment, I am doing that weird talking myself into and out of suspicions. I am worried about Mata -hence me asking DP about him, but it's nothing I can put my finger on in posts. I still feel pretty uneasy about boo - I keep flip flopping how I feel about epi and DH. One minute they read bad to me and the next they don't. I read your frustration as genuine the other day btw. IDK about where I stand on you. One thing kinda bothers me though - why did you vote me? I was in the middle of signing papers on my new car when I was trying to read all that and vote, but before when I was online you said you felt better about me. What changed your mind?

linki - Don't loose any sleep over it sweetie. We've all done is and some of us far worse than you. *hides hed* - It's easy to get over emotional during these things.

I'm also curious about Mata, but I have no idea how she plays. She asks good questions, but she can easily do it as a baddie.
With DH, I've felt pretty good about him the whole game, and now that he can easily join the lynch on me, he's choosing to use his feeling that I wouldn't do something like that as a civ, as a reason. I kind of like the fact that he's not following the crowd, but I don't know. Maybe I'm biased.
Epi, most of the time I think he's okay. His frustration when being accused felt genuine earlier in the game, and he seems very convinced I'm bad, and actually, I do appreciate him going to look for my baddie game. Other things he's done make me think that he's not that good.
I voted for you, because I felt Made was being wrongly lynched, and I definitely knew I was being wrongly lynched, so out of those with votes, I felt more comfortable voting for you. The thing with Boo and you has got me quite interested, but also confused. It's like there's suspicion going on which is on a low burner but is there, yet nothing happens, and no one is really paying attention to it. I don't like when people go for the obvious. Yes, it works sometimes, but most of the times, you lynch civvies.

Boo strikes me as an intelligent player and when he posts, it usually makes a lot of sense, but it also seems like he's on the outskirts looking in, afraid to get his hands dirty. Don't know what to make of it, because I don't know how he usually plays.

I'd just like to point out what FZ had to say about me in this post.

And then bring up what DP said about it:

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:

bea wrote:Rip Russ.

@DP - if you had to pick your top 3 suspects right now, who would they be and why?

As for this, they're all dead. Well, not literally. I'm still paranoid about boo. There's still the matter of him often going after people I currently feel good about, and I think FZ made a good point about him. FZ herself I'm unsure about. I think Epi's case, while interesting, doesn't fully sway me. Her getting angry, as I mentioned, doesn't do anything to quell any suspicions I may have had, but there's not much to begin with. I'd need something bigger to want to vote FZ. Then there's TH, whom I just do not feel is trustworthy. And I know, aside from hockey and music I'm a boring person k.

FZ: Boo strikes me as an intelligent player and when he posts, it usually makes a lot of sense, but it also seems like he's on the outskirts looking in, afraid to get his hands dirty. Don't know what to make of it, because I don't know how he usually plays.

DP: I'm still paranoid about boo. There's still the matter of him often going after people I currently feel good about, and I think FZ made a good point about him.

Now, this is for FZ. Beyond the meta-gaming, I think this game is how I usually play, especially when I haven't for a while. I start out louder, because I'm trying to get a feel on people. Once that happens, I don't need to say as much, because people go where they will. And I'm used to suspecting people, wanting to lynch them, having some success some of the time (at least other people agreeing with my suspicions) in the early game, but then not really having the people I suspect most get lynched as things move on. It still annoys me (in the sense, there are some people who just point a finger at someone, and boom, that person is lynched with like 80% of the vote, but I elaborate on people and get ignored almost entirely), but I've gotten used to it, and now I mostly just wait until people I really want to see lynched have even a few people discuss them, and then I add what I want to add to that discussion. It's what I think I demonstrably did with you and Made in the last lynch, for example (although, at the start of that lynch, I wasn't especially interested in lynching either of you. But once there was something to say that no one else seemed willing to say, or didn't see what I did, I said it. So not the best example, but hopefully you get the idea).

Anyways, why I think it's interesting. FZ made a good point about me, according to DP. FZ's point, as I read it, is that I am making sense (which, I think, means she agrees with people I suspect), but that I'm not as involved as I was at the start of the game, if you're going by post count. Anyone read that differently? So DP comes in, and says FZ made a good point. He also says though, "There's still the matter of him often going after people I currently feel good about". So which is it DP? Either you agree with FZ and her very limited point about me, that the things I say make sense (meaning you agree with my suspicions), or the things I say don't make sense (which is what you are actually saying, but not at all what FZ had to say about me).

It's manipulation of what was actually said, and DP also claims he is carefully reading the thread, which means he did what he did intentionally. He did not misread FZ, he got the point, but it didn't serve his purpose for what he wanted to say about me, so he twisted what someone else said. And he made it so far removed, he didn't even go to the source and twist something I said, he twisted a couple sentences someone else said about me.

So... this is DP laying the groundwork for a vote if he ever wants to vote me. He can just quote himself and say 'Here ya go. That's why I suspect him.', and take no flak for it, because he's DP, and that's how DP does things.

So, that was an attempt at subtle manipulation. And I believe DP he's paying attention. I do not believe civ DP pays that same level of attention, and I do not believe civ DP bothers with that sort of subtle manipulation, he just quotes a reason someone else gave for their vote as he comes in and does his drive-by vote, he doesn't lay the ground work for it himself, because he isn't paying enough attention to. Which means the conclusion I come to is that DP is not a detective.

Not sure I'll vote him yet today, I'm still looking at FZ and considering that. My main trip up now is something similar to why DH doesn't think she is bad, that out burst would just be a really shitty play from FZ trying to keep her baddie self from being lynched, which makes me want to hope she is not a baddie. However, that's also the kind of defense I was referring to being worried about getting from Bea if I built a case on her (not quite so extreme with the fuse going off like we saw with FZ, but that same sort of last ditch effort at coming across as 'genuine' which results in people not voting for her). That, and for the most part I still don't trust her primary accusers, and while I would hope the 50% check Russ seems likely to have done on her and gave him a result that said she was bad (based on his switching views on her and voting her) was accurate, I'm not sure it's enough to justify voting for her (and I know for some people there are other things that would justify it, but for me, that goes back to looking at the source of those other reasons for voting for her, which really works against the case for voting for her in my view).

DharmaHelper wrote:Voted for Black Rock.

I'm also getting to a point where I could vote for anyone pulling shit like this.

The people doing it are all people I know like to engage in discussion, but they aren't actually waiting for discussion to take place, they're just deciding they're right and doing stuff, or they don't care if they're right because they aren't a detective.

THIS is what I was talking about when I defended Snowman. Why are people voting way before they need to, when discussion is still on going? Is this some new thing people are doing? Is it a reaction to a game where you can't change your vote? It's tripping me up, whatever each reason each person has for doing it, because it makes me think you're all looking to hide things and avoid real accountability. We often talk about accountability for a vote, but 1 vote is 1 vote. Accountability for the actual discussion is far more important. It's how we actually form suspicions. It's how we actual decide who is making a real civvie effort to be helpful and baddie hunt, and who is just feigning it.

And I, for one, am sick of it.

(Sorry DH, this isn't directed at you specifically, and I hope that was clear. But there are a bunch of people doing it, and they have been all game, and it isn't working for me)

I was planning on holding my vote, but I will be busy most of tomorrow and feel I've already described my case on BR sufficiently.

DH, thanks for the link to your cases. I just read one with a lot about how she feels/felt about boo and I think I need to read it again to even know whether I agree or disagree. It's getting late for me. I'll get it all reread though so I just wanted you to know you didn't put those links out there for nothing.

boo wrote:
Anyways, why I think it's interesting. FZ made a good point about me, according to DP. FZ's point, as I read it, is that I am making sense (which, I think, means she agrees with people I suspect), but that I'm not as involved as I was at the start of the game, if you're going by post count. Anyone read that differently? So DP comes in, and says FZ made a good point. He also says though, "There's still the matter of him often going after people I currently feel good about". So which is it DP? Either you agree with FZ and her very limited point about me, that the things I say make sense (meaning you agree with my suspicions), or the things I say don't make sense (which is what you are actually saying, but not at all what FZ had to say about me).

boo I cut out the beginning and end of your case because I just wanted to comment on this one part. I also noticed this contradiction when I read it and wondered what exactly DP meant. I forgot about it though and did not question it like I should have. I will be interested to see how DP explains what seems to be a straight on contradiction between his two thoughts.

boo wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Voted for Black Rock.

I'm also getting to a point where I could vote for anyone pulling shit like this.

The people doing it are all people I know like to engage in discussion, but they aren't actually waiting for discussion to take place, they're just deciding they're right and doing stuff, or they don't care if they're right because they aren't a detective.

THIS is what I was talking about when I defended Snowman. Why are people voting way before they need to, when discussion is still on going? Is this some new thing people are doing? Is it a reaction to a game where you can't change your vote? It's tripping me up, whatever each reason each person has for doing it, because it makes me think you're all looking to hide things and avoid real accountability. We often talk about accountability for a vote, but 1 vote is 1 vote. Accountability for the actual discussion is far more important. It's how we actually form suspicions. It's how we actual decide who is making a real civvie effort to be helpful and baddie hunt, and who is just feigning it.

And I, for one, am sick of it.

(Sorry DH, this isn't directed at you specifically, and I hope that was clear. But there are a bunch of people doing it, and they have been all game, and it isn't working for me)

I voted because my person didn't get lynched last time and you voted Made for a bunch of stupid reasons. I see you probably won't be voting for FZ. this time either. Looking forward to the nonsense you use to vote the next victim.

Ahh the no u train arrived on time as expected.

Anyways, the point I was referring to was this:

but it also seems like he's on the outskirts looking in, afraid to get his hands dirty.

If that is indeed a usual thing I apologize. I've played so few games lately I forget lots of who does what. But sure, if you think you understand me that much, which I guess you don't, you can vote how you please. Assuming you're being genuine at least. :o

FZ. wrote: Boo strikes me as an intelligent player and when he posts, it usually makes a lot of sense, but it also seems like he's on the outskirts looking in, afraid to get his hands dirty. Don't know what to make of it, because I don't know how he usually plays.

I've quoted FZ's original post because it's important in relationship to boo.

And see what you did there boo? See it? It's why I have a hard time trusting you even when like in the Made lynch I agreed that a yoshiba isn't a detctive and therefore not so aweful.

It's because of the assumptions you make. DP said he agreed with that statement up there but never said what part of it.
In fact, FZ herself never said when "usually" applies. You took that all on yourself to mean that she meant that she suspects who you suspect.

Then you used an assumption of what posts you've made that FZ finds and thinks makes sense of to turn it around to make it look like DP is double talking when in fact - his meaning I think was pretty clear.

That he agrees - sometimes you make sense, but you suspect people he doesn't and that worries him.

And did you really think if you actually presented a case against me rather than your trip to imagination land that I'd really flip out all balls to the walls? Is that the impression you have of me?

I know what happened with MM and DH was aweful and I feel so very very bad about it.

All I can think of is bioshock when I was up for lynch for days and finally just said "I don't fucking care anymore, lynch me." I was a nilla civ in that - incarnation and I was calm and cool for DAYS about it. And for DAYS no one said I read genuine. Once I lost it - everyone gave me cred that fault isn't mine. I felt badly about loosing it tbh.

It's your misrepresentation - or unwillingnes to clarify why you think I'm bad in a way that's not a trip to imagination land - and now your twisting of both FZ's post and DF's posts that make me think you are up to no good. Prove me wrong boo. I want you to be civ, but man, you are making it so super hard for me to believe you have good intentions at all.

So, for whatever reason and by whatever MP-Voodoo, a couple of role secrets got revealed? Reading over a couple of them just now was pretty illuminating, if anyone is curious.

Wow. I don't even....

since you are here -does this change your perspective of any players? (this is a question everyone is free to answer btw)

Yeah, for instance, does anyone want to talk about how two Kiras have BTSC now?

Sockface wrote:Misa gains her Death Note at the beginning of Day 3. She gains BTSC with Light after one of their Death Notes has been relinquished or taken by Sidoh, or after the end of Night 5, whichever comes first. Once they share BTSC, Misa and Light may use each other's notebook to kill without the original owner necessarily forfeiting ownership. Therefore, Misa may still kill using Light's Death Note, and still satisfy the conditions for not possessing one.

It also says Misa should have gained her own Death Note by now, but only one Kira seems to be killing still.

Th - unless I'm missing something - the problem I'm having is that it's hard to tell who's doing what killing when the kills happen at any time. How do we know there is only one killer still?

You raise a great point - and one I want to understand tbh.

Because bea, if more than one Kira was killing... there would be more than one death per night. Although Llama might give me a speech about making assumptions for saying that.

bea wrote:since you are here -does this change your perspective of any players? (this is a question everyone is free to answer btw)

It may, once I have time to fully digest it all.

Bea have you had time to reread Metalmarsh yet like you said you were going to a few days ago?