Re: Arkham Mafia [Night 4]
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:32 pm
sabie, one of the points against you is you voted Matt AFTER Enrique told everyone his case was wrong, to back off, please don't vote for Matt. You then voted Matt. Why?
So then not the same situation. cool.Matt wrote:I would like to point out I was talking just fine on nights 2 and 3, unless people still believe I was "faking"Enrique wrote:There was speculation earlier that the Riddler was disappearing people. TH getting cursed then not talking all night isn't a good sign.juliets wrote:Enrique why the cry of "noooo"?Enrique wrote:Turnip Head noooo
This is without any doubt the kindest observation that has been made about me all game. Thank you Juliets. In whatever time I have left here, I will treasure your words and be encouraged by them in the face of whatever comesjuliets wrote:I iso'd him but didn't see anything but a nice polite person so the reasons he's bad have gone right over my head.
I'm sorry but that is NOT a case, it's a work of fiction. With respect, I don't recall anyone coming up with a motive as to why I would do such a thing as to do so (based on the conjecture that I'd read) defies logic. I can promise you that anyone that lyncher me on that basis is going to feel exceptionally foolish.Matt wrote:That's not a fair representation, I don't think. He used several phrases that correlated with the number two, actually said the word "two" in his first post, and at one point even quoted someone's post and simply said "Seconded!".Enrique wrote:Some stuff I remember:juliets wrote:Can someone bullet point the Glorfindel case for me or point me back to someone who has already made the case? I iso'd him but didn't see anything but a nice polite person so the reasons he's bad have gone right over my head.
1. sig thought he read as being "fake-nice" early in the game but later went back on that.
2. Matt thinks he's been claiming Two Face throughout the game for mentioning coinflips and the number two.
3. He made sure to reply to sig right before he got killed and the whole thing got buried.
4. MP reads him as an inmate for not matching either his civvie or baddie metas.
I don't know if I'm missing something.
C'mon now.
K go for it, and do the same for everyone else. I'll help if you'd like, which half of the players do you want?Bullzeye wrote:To be fair Matt, I could probably search your posts and find a bunch of times where you've used synonyms of 'two'. It's a stretch even for you.
That's not at all the same thing I found from Glor's posts and you know it.Bullzeye wrote:Actually I just realised you spent a significant portion of day 2 repeating the word knock twice in every post. Matt = Two Face confirmed.
I just don't understand why someone would put so much effort into dropping a ton of hints that they're a role who wins with the baddies 50% of the time. Nor do I see why someone would go to that much effort to role hint full stop. It's just ridiculous. If Glorfindel really is Two-Face and really did decide to drop a ton of 'two' related hints then I wish I had his amount of motivation, dedication, and spare time.Matt wrote:That's not at all the same thing I found from Glor's posts and you know it.Bullzeye wrote:Actually I just realised you spent a significant portion of day 2 repeating the word knock twice in every post. Matt = Two Face confirmed.
I'm not claiming to give you the "why", but I don't think it's just coincidence that 5 out of his first 10 posts include a "hint", then later he quotes someone simply saying "Seconded", and even later still makes another "hint" with the coin flip thing.Bullzeye wrote:I just don't understand why someone would put so much effort into dropping a ton of hints that they're a role who wins with the baddies 50% of the time. Nor do I see why someone would go to that much effort to role hint full stop. It's just ridiculous. If Glorfindel really is Two-Face and really did decide to drop a ton of 'two' related hints then I wish I had his amount of motivation, dedication, and spare time.Matt wrote:That's not at all the same thing I found from Glor's posts and you know it.Bullzeye wrote:Actually I just realised you spent a significant portion of day 2 repeating the word knock twice in every post. Matt = Two Face confirmed.
True but he can win with the baddies and might not get a choice when it comes down to it. I think whoever it is will probably choose a pro-civ path as it's the smart choice for any neutral role, but I still wouldn't be hinting at a role probably half the civs will see as a threat and at least one civ wants dead.Matt wrote:I'm not claiming to give you the "why", but I don't think it's just coincidence that 5 out of his first 10 posts include a "hint", then later he quotes someone simply saying "Seconded", and even later still makes another "hint" with the coin flip thing.Bullzeye wrote:I just don't understand why someone would put so much effort into dropping a ton of hints that they're a role who wins with the baddies 50% of the time. Nor do I see why someone would go to that much effort to role hint full stop. It's just ridiculous. If Glorfindel really is Two-Face and really did decide to drop a ton of 'two' related hints then I wish I had his amount of motivation, dedication, and spare time.Matt wrote:That's not at all the same thing I found from Glor's posts and you know it.Bullzeye wrote:Actually I just realised you spent a significant portion of day 2 repeating the word knock twice in every post. Matt = Two Face confirmed.
Could be coincidence, maybe it is.
Linki - But Two Face can essentially win with anyone, and is not LMS, so it's not the same thing.
me not trsuting you is not the same as me wanting to lynch youMovingPictures07 wrote:Dom, I'd like to know if there are any other players you "trust" more than me at the moment, and why that is the case, since you seem intent on continuing to spread a lack of trust for me in the thread.
!Enrique wrote:We learned something, MP, but with that said I do think your lynch was pretty unnecessary. Couldn't you just have done that any other time if the situation lent itself instead of encouraging/forcing it?
I find great comfort in this evidence that logic and commonsense are not yet a casualty in this game...Bullzeye wrote:I just don't understand why someone would put so much effort into dropping a ton of hints that they're a role who wins with the baddies 50% of the time. Nor do I see why someone would go to that much effort to role hint full stop. It's just ridiculous. If Glorfindel really is Two-Face and really did decide to drop a ton of 'two' related hints then I wish I had his amount of motivation, dedication, and spare time.Matt wrote:That's not at all the same thing I found from Glor's posts and you know it.Bullzeye wrote:Actually I just realised you spent a significant portion of day 2 repeating the word knock twice in every post. Matt = Two Face confirmed.
Why would you think they were?Glorfindel wrote:I find great comfort in this evidence that logic and commonsense are not yet a casualty in this game...Bullzeye wrote:I just don't understand why someone would put so much effort into dropping a ton of hints that they're a role who wins with the baddies 50% of the time. Nor do I see why someone would go to that much effort to role hint full stop. It's just ridiculous. If Glorfindel really is Two-Face and really did decide to drop a ton of 'two' related hints then I wish I had his amount of motivation, dedication, and spare time.Matt wrote:That's not at all the same thing I found from Glor's posts and you know it.Bullzeye wrote:Actually I just realised you spent a significant portion of day 2 repeating the word knock twice in every post. Matt = Two Face confirmed.
Has anyone read sprityo's ISO? It's full of sketch. It's all mechanics questions for the hosts, discussion of mechanics, and last minute votes. In lynches with a clear runaway candidate, sprityo votes with the majority. In tighter lynches which would require him to take a stand, he votes for Floyd or talks about how we should get rid of the nonparticipants. The pattern is clear. sprityo is doing his best to not do anything that will put him in the spotlight. I encourage everyone to reread him. Let's get this guy in the hotseat pronto.MovingPictures07 wrote: sprityo -- The d2 lynch doesn't really give us any information about sprityo (he voted last for Nero, and many of his posts have not been particularly thick in content. In addition, his d3 vote for Floyd could be seen as an easily justifiable vote for a lurker to avoid coming up with suspicions. Not a good look. With that said, I am tone reading him as genuine, and he has brought forth insight throughout the game, mainly in the form of questions. I need to really think about him more though; he's the weakest of my town reads and could easily drop to a mafia read if he doesn't pick up more townie points.
Not giving us much to work with is a great way to put it. Glorfindel's primary objective seems to be responding to suspicions against him, including ones not even directed at him. I don't see as of yet a Glorfindel who is genuinely attempting to solve the game. When asked for his reads Glorfindel circled around a few names without calling directly calling anyone suspicious, which I think is an effort to not step on anyone's toes and gain even more attention. His vote yesterday is a small ping for me; in looking at Glorfindel's ISO he has been harping on the theory that one team is full of inactives and this explains the lack of a N2 kill. Glorfy does not seem to consider other possibilities like blocks or protections and his thery is another way I could see him trying to step on as few toes as possible while trying to look involved. But in previous games Glorfy never struck me as a solely logical or analytical thinkiner: he uses his gut and his grasp of player's tones to make judgments, and none of that is present in this game. His vote also feels slightly reverse engineered, as in "Well I can't vote for myself and I already defended MP, so I have to vote someone else, better make a decent case to go with it" which isn't necessarily pingy, but in context of everything else, it is.MovingPictures07 wrote:Glorfindel -- My thoughts on Glorfindel can be summed up in my response to Mac. While an incredibly nice guy, he's not giving us much to work with this game, and has hardly thrown out any opinions or hunting that I can see. As a mafia or a civilian, I have meta-based reasons to believe he would want to hunt, or try to appears as though he is hunting; yet he is doing neither. In the early part of the game, he seemed to be trying to stay out of the radar. I think he's most likely an inmate, but I still have enough doubt that I'm placing him in the "slightly" category. With that said, Mac also had a good observation regarding Glorfindel's opinion of sig that has been considered by me and should be by others.
I don't have very many thoughts on sabie, it's impossible to, but that post she made about sig is like, exactly what I'd expect a mafia to say if they killed sig for that reason. Here's the post:MovingPictures07 wrote:Strongly Leaning Anti-Town
sabie12 -- She has voted for me today because I said sig a lot and now he's dead; she voted for me yesterday as well citing a similar reason. She has yet to explain how her train of thought regarding this suspicion actually leads her to the conclusion that I'm mafia, which is a piece of the logic in her behavior I'm missing completely. Hence it's a bad look, because otherwise this reads fabricated to me. She voted for Matt on d2 for "strange" knock knock jokes. Another bad look, I can't understand where her mindset is at all. She needs to clarify ASAP. In fact, looking at her d2 behavior, she easily could be Nero's teammate, given she couldn't understand why people weren't voting Matt anymore. Other than that, she's offered no real substantive content. I know she replaced in and the thread is large, but... this is not good in the slightest. She's my number two guess for Nero's teammate.
She did vote for MP the day before that too so you know she was at least mindful of his standing in the game. I think killing sig could have been her idea. And she votes for people like MP and Matt who are obviously cursed because they "seem strange" which is surface level analysis IMO - and I'm weakening my point here but unfortunately this is also exactly what I suspect from civilians who aren't putting in the hard work. So I'm on the fence about her but I definitely see the case for her being bad.sabie12 wrote:Voted MP because he kept talking about sig and now sigs dead.
All I can say for this one is I disagree. Enrique is one of a few players I genuinely see trying to solve the game from all angles. If he was Nero's teammate he had no reason to do what he did on Day 2. This doesn't absolve him of being on the other team or being some sort of inmate but at this point I find it difficult to suspect him.Enrique wrote:Enrique -- While he has the second most posts in the game, I'm not convinced he's out for town's best interests. His behavior today (d4) looks worst to me of any of his days, voting for Glorfindel for vaguely cited reasons. I hope he can elaborate upon these. Despite this, he has had bad looks consistently throughout the game. During the early portion of the game, he looked worse coming out of the 1v1 against Golden, from a GTH tone level, but that was only enough for me to consider "slightly" mafia leaning at most. Since then, he pushed suspicion against sig d1, Matt on d2 (bad look) based on a convoluted theory that really was reaching. I get the feeling that he's been making cases to appear as though as he's town, because the connections he continuously is making are based on tenuous, at best, role-based mechanics, rather than in-thread behavior. I think he could be mafia (more on that in a bit). If he's not mafia, I have a backup theory that he could be an inmate that really was pushing the sig agenda, since I don't think his thoughts against sig were town-minded. The distinction about Enrique's reassessments is that he seems to be making them for manipulative purposes, rather than in a hunt to genuinely find mafia. In addition, he has engaged in many back and forths but has spent hardly any recent time actually hunting for much of anything. He has also pushed what I have seen as manipulative conversation about me and others (regarding my rainbow list being questionable), then followed up by endorsing suspicion once it has formed, but later not fully following through with it. It all reeks of opportunism. I firmly believe the d2 Matt vote is a bad look, even if he reassessed; he was basing his reassessment entirely on supposed role hint by Turnip Head that is far from reasonable evidence. I think it's very possible Enrique is Nero's teammate; in fact, he's my number one guess for it.
Because you sounded genuine in your frustration and I think that's more a civ MP thing to do.MovingPictures07 wrote:Why?Typhoony wrote:Between Glorfindel and Mp, I'd rather vote Glorfindel.
You voted for me before. Why not now?
I don't think that's really fair to say since you know full well I have almost zero time to properly play this game.MovingPictures07 wrote:
Typhoony -- Otherwise, he'd probably be a slight mafia read, since I'm not seeing a whole lot of supatown game-solving Typhoony this game.
And you think I'm not frustrated with this game? I've listened to those night time clues like a hundred times and I get nothing. I try to genuinely contribute to solving this game and receive no acknowledgement other than accusations of manipulative behaviour. I'm accused of not trying to solve the game and only defend myself when many of you continue to line up with your accusations of me that have no basis in fact and are sheer fantasy.Typhoony wrote:I see we should've stuck with a Mac lynch.
Because you sounded genuine in your frustration and I think that's more a civ MP thing to do.MovingPictures07 wrote:Why?Typhoony wrote:Between Glorfindel and Mp, I'd rather vote Glorfindel.
You voted for me before. Why not now?
Hey Typhoony, why do you think I am mafia again?Typhoony wrote:I see we should've stuck with a Mac lynch.
Because you sounded genuine in your frustration and I think that's more a civ MP thing to do.MovingPictures07 wrote:Why?Typhoony wrote:Between Glorfindel and Mp, I'd rather vote Glorfindel.
You voted for me before. Why not now?I don't think that's really fair to say since you know full well I have almost zero time to properly play this game.MovingPictures07 wrote:
Typhoony -- Otherwise, he'd probably be a slight mafia read, since I'm not seeing a whole lot of supatown game-solving Typhoony this game.
I also agree with THs point on sprityo just now. Dude's not reminding me of his Of Montreal game at all. Way more careful.
You're right, I just read back over Sprityo's posts and was astonished to see that he has 83 posts, yet I couldn't remember a single comment from him all game. He's been pushing for low/nonposters from Day 1 to the present and asks questions without giving much opinion himself. And, as you said, the bandwagony votes only give him a worse look.Turnip Head wrote:Has anyone read sprityo's ISO? It's full of sketch. It's all mechanics questions for the hosts, discussion of mechanics, and last minute votes. In lynches with a clear runaway candidate, sprityo votes with the majority. In tighter lynches which would require him to take a stand, he votes for Floyd or talks about how we should get rid of the nonparticipants. The pattern is clear. sprityo is doing his best to not do anything that will put him in the spotlight. I encourage everyone to reread him. Let's get this guy in the hotseat pronto.MovingPictures07 wrote: sprityo -- The d2 lynch doesn't really give us any information about sprityo (he voted last for Nero, and many of his posts have not been particularly thick in content. In addition, his d3 vote for Floyd could be seen as an easily justifiable vote for a lurker to avoid coming up with suspicions. Not a good look. With that said, I am tone reading him as genuine, and he has brought forth insight throughout the game, mainly in the form of questions. I need to really think about him more though; he's the weakest of my town reads and could easily drop to a mafia read if he doesn't pick up more townie points.
I agree that band wagoners might be something to look at, but at the same time I still think mafia would be putting votes away from the beaten path. Like, I don't really know how you play as mafia, but it sure looks to me like it would be easy to put suspicion on band wagoners because there have been so many.DFaraday wrote:Voted the hospital because I haven't been there yet.
You're right, I just read back over Sprityo's posts and was astonished to see that he has 83 posts, yet I couldn't remember a single comment from him all game. He's been pushing for low/nonposters from Day 1 to the present and asks questions without giving much opinion himself. And, as you said, the bandwagony votes only give him a worse look.Turnip Head wrote:Has anyone read sprityo's ISO? It's full of sketch. It's all mechanics questions for the hosts, discussion of mechanics, and last minute votes. In lynches with a clear runaway candidate, sprityo votes with the majority. In tighter lynches which would require him to take a stand, he votes for Floyd or talks about how we should get rid of the nonparticipants. The pattern is clear. sprityo is doing his best to not do anything that will put him in the spotlight. I encourage everyone to reread him. Let's get this guy in the hotseat pronto.MovingPictures07 wrote: sprityo -- The d2 lynch doesn't really give us any information about sprityo (he voted last for Nero, and many of his posts have not been particularly thick in content. In addition, his d3 vote for Floyd could be seen as an easily justifiable vote for a lurker to avoid coming up with suspicions. Not a good look. With that said, I am tone reading him as genuine, and he has brought forth insight throughout the game, mainly in the form of questions. I need to really think about him more though; he's the weakest of my town reads and could easily drop to a mafia read if he doesn't pick up more townie points.
Well for me, whether I'm Mafia or not, in every game I try not to bandwagon. If I vote for someone I try to give a legitimate reason. I think votes without much reason supporting them look bad, and that includes bandwagon votes. Sprityo just seems to blend his votes into an existing mass, which looks shady to me.Scotty wrote:I agree that band wagoners might be something to look at, but at the same time I still think mafia would be putting votes away from the beaten path. Like, I don't really know how you play as mafia, but it sure looks to me like it would be easy to put suspicion on band wagoners because there have been so many.DFaraday wrote:Voted the hospital because I haven't been there yet.
You're right, I just read back over Sprityo's posts and was astonished to see that he has 83 posts, yet I couldn't remember a single comment from him all game. He's been pushing for low/nonposters from Day 1 to the present and asks questions without giving much opinion himself. And, as you said, the bandwagony votes only give him a worse look.Turnip Head wrote:Has anyone read sprityo's ISO? It's full of sketch. It's all mechanics questions for the hosts, discussion of mechanics, and last minute votes. In lynches with a clear runaway candidate, sprityo votes with the majority. In tighter lynches which would require him to take a stand, he votes for Floyd or talks about how we should get rid of the nonparticipants. The pattern is clear. sprityo is doing his best to not do anything that will put him in the spotlight. I encourage everyone to reread him. Let's get this guy in the hotseat pronto.MovingPictures07 wrote: sprityo -- The d2 lynch doesn't really give us any information about sprityo (he voted last for Nero, and many of his posts have not been particularly thick in content. In addition, his d3 vote for Floyd could be seen as an easily justifiable vote for a lurker to avoid coming up with suspicions. Not a good look. With that said, I am tone reading him as genuine, and he has brought forth insight throughout the game, mainly in the form of questions. I need to really think about him more though; he's the weakest of my town reads and could easily drop to a mafia read if he doesn't pick up more townie points.
Your responses have been quite carefully crafted, I feel. I just can't shake that you're playing it safe this game, but I can't put my finger on exactly how that indicts you as a baddie.
I've made no secret of the fact from Day 1 that I'm struggling a little with the complexities of this game but I am (within the constraints of time that we all have) to contribute to the best of my ability. A number of people now have voiced their suspicion of my posts in that they are polite and respectful. If that's what you believe is sufficient to eliminate me from this game then lynch away because I'm not going to change that. Yes, you are right too Scotty - I have been saying that I'm not bad because I'm good. There's a reason for that (it's true...) but you are wrong to assert that I don't understand why people would be suspicious of me because of that because I do. You and others believe that trust has no place in games of Mafia. I don't agree, I think it is actually the key to winning these games - it's trying to find that one or two people to trust...Scotty wrote:Actually I take back what I said.
Doc, save TH tonite. I think he is more important to the civvie cause this game than I have been. And j tend to agree with his most recent post.
Glorf, I have said early on that I am inherently suspicious of nice posters, and you have exuded niceties all game. You're very expressive in your language.
But your general ideas seem fringing on actual theories and illogical paths. I don't mean to discourage you if you're completely genuine. Hell, my first few games here were just throwing out theories and hoping any stuck.
But most of your defenses have been reading as "I don't understand why you suspect me because I'm good" or "I'm not bad, because I'm good".
I don't buy the theory that you are TwoFace. I think Matt is stretching there, nor would I see a point in leaving breadcrumbs for that role. I thought maybe you could be neutral for a long time, and mayhaps you are, but I think you are not civ. Based on your arguments and counter arguments.
I saw your play in Pikmin and you did not let a lack of historical context or a worry about being wrong stop you from trying to influence the game. In any case you can't let that fear stop you. If you're a civ we're going to need your help to win this game. Show me your fight.Glorfindel wrote:I don't have the historical knowledge that many of you do about each other's playstyles (to which you refer frequently) and that doesn't help. And TH - damn straight I'm not going around making accusations against everyone. It's not that I don't want to tread on any toes (my interactions with Sig put the lie to that statement) - it's just that I don't want to fall into the temptation of making groundless, false and malicious accusations about others of the nature that continue to be made about me.
Very well, my friend - I will try harder (although I'm not entirely convinced that I'm playing differently than in Pikmin). Having said that, I was in kind a power role in that game that may have given me more confidence than I do in a vanilla Town roleTurnip Head wrote:I saw your play in Pikmin and you did not let a lack of historical context or a worry about being wrong stop you from trying to influence the game. In any case you can't let that fear stop you. If you're a civ we're going to need your help to win this game. Show me your fight.Glorfindel wrote:I don't have the historical knowledge that many of you do about each other's playstyles (to which you refer frequently) and that doesn't help. And TH - damn straight I'm not going around making accusations against everyone. It's not that I don't want to tread on any toes (my interactions with Sig put the lie to that statement) - it's just that I don't want to fall into the temptation of making groundless, false and malicious accusations about others of the nature that continue to be made about me.
Thank you for your encouragement beabea wrote:Glor - I for one like that you are polite. Don't loose that part of your game please. We could stand to have some more of it round these parts. I know it's hard to be the new guy in a super complex game with so much talk of meta but really you are in a unique position because you can see things the rest of us might miss because we are so used to each other. Don't be affraid to voice your opinions. I for one, welcome the fresh look.
You're welcome to look at me but how do you get that out of what he said? I don't see anything that relates to me.DharmaHelper wrote:Dang Bea RIP.
Is Gordon telling us to look at Juliets more closely?
juliets wrote:You're welcome to look at me but how do you get that out of what he said? I don't see anything that relates to me.DharmaHelper wrote:Dang Bea RIP.
Is Gordon telling us to look at Juliets more closely?
Robin may have given us some good leads. Let's see if we can't bring this scum to justice before I finish my next cup of coffee.