Re: Death Note Mafia [NIGHT 7]
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:17 am
I think Misa has her Death Note still, but I think she would relinquish it if we ever tried to lynch her.
As long as Watari is still alive, L can't be lynched. From the role page:Ricochet wrote:Near and Mello are both unlynchable (but also powerless) until L dies. Where does it say that L cannot be lynched, though?FZ. wrote: Second, am I wrong, or is Near the only detective who can't be lynched (other than L, but then someone dies instead of him)? Doesn't this makes the likelihood of MM being bad pretty high?
I'm not sure I get how the mechanics work here, but how are we supposed to get unlynchable people to die?
MM's likelihood of being a bad unlynchable are about the same as TH's, at this point, I think.
All unlynchable "humans" can become lynchable at some point. All unlynchable Shinigamis are not be lynchable at all, at least judging from the revealed secrets (only Rem could sacrifice herself for Misa's sake).
Ah, yes, because people have been doing a stellar job listening to me.FZ. wrote:First of all, why isn't anyone concerned that Epi said he thinks MM is a shinigami after the vote was closed? If he thought it was a waste of vote, shouldn't he have tried to tell us not to vote there? Yeah, he said vote me, but he didn't say he thought MM was a waste of time. It seems very reasonable to conclude that he doesn't care if we waste lynches. In his eyes, either we waste a lynch, or lynch a detective (me).![]()
![]()
![]()
I realize you may have meant this in a playful way (as your subsequent post indicated), but I want to highlight the false dichotomy here: Either I don't know what I'm doing, or I'm bad. I'm either a screw up or an evildoer, in other words.FZ. wrote:I think you can just dismiss Epi altogether. Obviously, he has no idea what he's doing...either that, or he's badTurnip Head wrote:Yes, it seems like a slip to me.FZ. wrote:I get you. But he's supposed to play like he doesn't. Are you saying it was a slip?Turnip Head wrote:I'm not sure why, but it's clear he doesn't think I'm Kira, which makes me think he knows who is.
Maybe someone else can ask Epi my question :P
Yes, that translates as one lynch escape. Also, in that eventuality, Watari will be lynched. There will be a lynch and Watari will be revealed to have be lynched, right? This is not the same as the non-lynch we've experienced with TH and MM. This is not the same as the unlynchable clauses Near and Mello have.Boomslang wrote:As long as Watari is still alive, L can't be lynched. From the role page:Ricochet wrote:Near and Mello are both unlynchable (but also powerless) until L dies. Where does it say that L cannot be lynched, though?FZ. wrote: Second, am I wrong, or is Near the only detective who can't be lynched (other than L, but then someone dies instead of him)? Doesn't this makes the likelihood of MM being bad pretty high?
I'm not sure I get how the mechanics work here, but how are we supposed to get unlynchable people to die?
MM's likelihood of being a bad unlynchable are about the same as TH's, at this point, I think.
All unlynchable "humans" can become lynchable at some point. All unlynchable Shinigamis are not be lynchable at all, at least judging from the revealed secrets (only Rem could sacrifice herself for Misa's sake).
Serving as a father-like figure to L, Watari is very protective of him. If L is ever about to be lynched, Watari dies in his place.
So you think not lynching the person you think is Misa is the best option? Would that not just leave the Death Note in her hands until the game is over?Turnip Head wrote:I think Misa has her Death Note still, but I think she would relinquish it if we ever tried to lynch her.
No more cookies for you.Epignosis wrote:Ah, yes, because people have been doing a stellar job listening to me.FZ. wrote:First of all, why isn't anyone concerned that Epi said he thinks MM is a shinigami after the vote was closed? If he thought it was a waste of vote, shouldn't he have tried to tell us not to vote there? Yeah, he said vote me, but he didn't say he thought MM was a waste of time. It seems very reasonable to conclude that he doesn't care if we waste lynches. In his eyes, either we waste a lynch, or lynch a detective (me).![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
I realize you may have meant this in a playful way (as your subsequent post indicated), but I want to highlight the false dichotomy here: Either I don't know what I'm doing, or I'm bad. I'm either a screw up or an evildoer, in other words.FZ. wrote:I think you can just dismiss Epi altogether. Obviously, he has no idea what he's doing...either that, or he's badTurnip Head wrote:Yes, it seems like a slip to me.FZ. wrote:I get you. But he's supposed to play like he doesn't. Are you saying it was a slip?Turnip Head wrote:I'm not sure why, but it's clear he doesn't think I'm Kira, which makes me think he knows who is.
Maybe someone else can ask Epi my question :P
Well now let's see.
Thus far, I've been right about the non-Kira Yotsuba win condition, right about the detective objective, right about Russ' silence being role related (wrong about the alignment though), right about Snowman being bad, right about MM not dying, and right about a couple of things I will keep to myself as of this moment.
No, I'd say I very much know what I'm doing. Therefore, I must be bad.![]()
Anyway, being right this much is its own reward.
But, oh boy, does it make me wonder what else I am right about.
Did I say that? Did I say any of that?Metalmarsh89 wrote:So you think not lynching the person you think is Misa is the best option? Would that not just leave the Death Note in her hands until the game is over?Turnip Head wrote:I think Misa has her Death Note still, but I think she would relinquish it if we ever tried to lynch her.
Ooh, that is a very interesting point you bring up. Shit's about to get real.Turnip Head wrote:Did I say that? Did I say any of that?Metalmarsh89 wrote:So you think not lynching the person you think is Misa is the best option? Would that not just leave the Death Note in her hands until the game is over?Turnip Head wrote:I think Misa has her Death Note still, but I think she would relinquish it if we ever tried to lynch her.
And not necessarily. There ARE other ways to deal with Misa, you know.
I can't think of what that interesting point might be, tbh. Care to tell, TH?Metalmarsh89 wrote:Ooh, that is a very interesting point you bring up. Shit's about to get real.Turnip Head wrote:Did I say that? Did I say any of that?Metalmarsh89 wrote:So you think not lynching the person you think is Misa is the best option? Would that not just leave the Death Note in her hands until the game is over?Turnip Head wrote:I think Misa has her Death Note still, but I think she would relinquish it if we ever tried to lynch her.
And not necessarily. There ARE other ways to deal with Misa, you know.
Earlier, on Day 3, a dismissal of MM's case (and early vote) on him.Epignosis wrote:I can guess why.Metalmarsh89 wrote:My vote was impulsive.Epignosis wrote:He did.FZ. wrote:Oh, and didn't llama vote early too?Epignosis wrote:Line 14. Snowman had to be one of the first five people to vote. With the early voting, it makes me wonder if a similar mechanic is in Turnip Head's role (and MM's, while we're at it).FZ. wrote:What do you mean?Epignosis wrote:I'm interested in the early voting for TH, given the revelation that it was a mechanic for Snowman.
Earlier, also Day 3, a criticism of TH's and MM's voting early but still posting excessively afterwards.Epignosis wrote:Go for it zeek. I didn't even read MM's case on me and don't plan to post any manner of defense. I'm the easy choice today and I'm okay with that. If you're a detective though, lynching me won't help you.zeek wrote:Very convincing case, MM, I hadn't put together all those inconsistencies from Epi. Although I'm not sure on you, your points are persuasive. I may vote Epi if he convince me otherwise.
I really don't know what to make of all the strange behaviour in this game tbh, feels like it's going to be quite a random game.
Any other reference to MM or dialogue with him, earlier than this, I personally found it to be not as relevant or on a different issue.Epignosis wrote:Perhaps it is the novelty of having a game with more posts than Dr. Who, but I wonder why TH and MM continue to post and post and post and post even after they have voted. Is it an effort to make it difficult for detectives to read and catch up?
Huh?Turnip Head wrote:By the way, in light of the recent secrets that were revealed: all detectives, Light's team, and the majority of the Yotsubas will be made aware that Higuchi has a Death Note approximately two nights after he receives it. Kind of like an open secret. Something to keep in mind, folks. I'd say it's likely he doesn't have it yet, so we'll have to consider other explanations for why it appears a different Kira has started killing, if that theory is to be believed.
I did that on purpose to prove that my win conditions don't depend on that.Ricochet wrote:Since FZ. pointed it out, it is indeed true that Epignosis mentioned his idea of MM being a Shinigami 2 minutes after the poll concluded. Also, TH did in fact ask him what he thinks of MM with around 5 hours left to go, to which FZ herself assumed TH is still getting the silence treatment from Epig, which Epig then confirmed - this was somewhere in between TH making his small case against MM and the train on MM picking up (the next vote after this was zeek's and it was only the 3rd vote, I think, from those MM received).
I suspect Epig's rebuttal will be that, indeed, nobody besides TH, who is bound to get no answers from him, has asked him about MM.
But since he now also (sort of) implied all it would have taken was listening to his, I suppose, previous statements he made on MM, I went and checked.
First of all, a huge gap in days between today and the last time Epig, on record, has addressed something about MM or even interacted with him. Last one on Day 5, but on a different issue. Then Day 4, an assumption that Snowman's early-voting secret win requirement, revealed to us through the puzzle, could also be part of TH's and MM's win requirements (btw, right now only TH can still qualify for this; MM's vote on D7 was the sixth)
What makes you think I'm a Shinigami?Turnip Head wrote:And Bea, it seems clear that there is a lot of goodwill being sent your way, given that only yourself, a lazy shinigami, and a confused Boomslang voted for you yesterday. I hope you take advantage of this goodwill and continue to help us figure out who the bad guys are. If you are truly a detective, we could use your skillsK?
Literally everything that you've done.Metalmarsh89 wrote:What makes you think I'm a Shinigami?Turnip Head wrote:And Bea, it seems clear that there is a lot of goodwill being sent your way, given that only yourself, a lazy shinigami, and a confused Boomslang voted for you yesterday. I hope you take advantage of this goodwill and continue to help us figure out who the bad guys are. If you are truly a detective, we could use your skillsK?
Then you didn't read carefully enough.Ricochet wrote:TH, I don't understand what you're implying "in light of the recent secrets that were revealed". As in, I'm reading the recent secrets that were revealed, and still don't get what you're implying about the "two days" part and about borderline everybody being aware that Higuchi has the DN. Light's team? Obviously (from the beginning of DN ownership going to Higuchi). Remaining Yotsubas? Obviously (from the beginning of DN ownership going to Higuchi and their kill vote power activating). But all the detectives? Matsuda is dead. Penber and Misora, probably (starting from when when Light stops killing, hence the beginning of DN ownership going to Higuchi). The rest?
linki: noted
Because obviously.Metalmarsh89 wrote:What makes you think I'm a Shinigami?Turnip Head wrote:And Bea, it seems clear that there is a lot of goodwill being sent your way, given that only yourself, a lazy shinigami, and a confused Boomslang voted for you yesterday. I hope you take advantage of this goodwill and continue to help us figure out who the bad guys are. If you are truly a detective, we could use your skillsK?
The claim of "not understanding" seems evasive, as it avoids taking responsibility for stating why the target's actions have been suspicious.Matahari wrote:FZ- I read the posts about Llama, and you came right to the point. He hasn't been killed yet, which made me laugh. I don't really trust Llama and I could see a vote for him. I also trust ppl who are susp of MM, and I could vote there as well. Made and TH are ppl I have voted because I couldn't understand their behavior. I was wrong about them, but still, it was my reason, and I can do that again. But there is still time, I'd rather my vote counted for something, so I'll wait a bit longer.
If you've independently judged someone as bad, I don't think that should change because someone you also think is bad makes an attack on that person. Especially in a game like this, where baddies don't have default BTSC.Matahari wrote:I have flip-flopped a bit on FZ for various reasons, and was ready to go ahead and vote for her today, until Epi posted this. I disagree with most of his comments here. They smack of old-school baddie.
But this was posted as the rationale for joining the Snowman lynch:Matahari wrote:And- I'm not ready to vote Llama or Epig yet, because I want to have something to more to present than 'feels'.
Matahari wrote:I will vote Snowman, because I still think that Zombarellas case is coming from an inexperienced place. Maybe I'm basing my decision on what I have done in the past, but when I went hard against someone with just a gut feeling during my first year of playing, I was right.
Right, I did miss out on L and Watari. Still not quite there yet at "all detectives", though, but I'll leave it at that.Turnip Head wrote:Then you didn't read carefully enough.Ricochet wrote:TH, I don't understand what you're implying "in light of the recent secrets that were revealed". As in, I'm reading the recent secrets that were revealed, and still don't get what you're implying about the "two days" part and about borderline everybody being aware that Higuchi has the DN. Light's team? Obviously (from the beginning of DN ownership going to Higuchi). Remaining Yotsubas? Obviously (from the beginning of DN ownership going to Higuchi and their kill vote power activating). But all the detectives? Matsuda is dead. Penber and Misora, probably (starting from when when Light stops killing, hence the beginning of DN ownership going to Higuchi). The rest?
linki: noted
Finally something I agree with TH on.Turnip Head wrote:I'm glad you brought up Mata, Boomslang. She is someone I would like to discuss in-depth tomorrow.
I know right? Weird!thellama73 wrote:Finally something I agree with TH on.Turnip Head wrote:I'm glad you brought up Mata, Boomslang. She is someone I would like to discuss in-depth tomorrow.
Bass_the_Clever wrote:I understand lynching people who just aren't playing but where do you draw the line. I mean it almost sounds like even if you are a low poster you might have to worry about people wanting to lynch you for not being as active as them.
What more is there to say about it? I looked for something to sway me toward a candidate and that post I referenced struck me as odd wording. I could have just reiterated a point made by somebody else and voted any player, but I didn't. I voted for what pinged me most. By the looks of it I should have just done whatever was easiest cause I'm getting criticism still for my first vote.Turnip Head wrote:However, your more specific thoughts regarding Zeek are more compelling to me, I like the work you did there. His vote for Snowman still feels out of place, and it appears that Zeek himself is willing to admit that, though he says he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. Could be something there.
Why does it matter that it was your first vote? It could have been your hundredth vote and you'd still be getting criticism from me for the justification you used.zeek wrote:By the looks of it I should have just done whatever was easiest cause I'm getting criticism still for my first vote.
It matters because there wasn't much to go on, I had no gut or reads really. My justification? I said even then it wasn't much, but it's what had my eye and I don't see why I'm being beat over the head with it. It's hilarious coming from you as well. All your early votes, all your flip-flopping and trolling. Save your lecture, shinigami.Turnip Head wrote:Why does it matter that it was your first vote? It could have been your hundredth vote and you'd still be getting criticism from me for the justification you used.
And no, you shouldn't just do whatever is easiest to avoid suspicion/criticism. That's something only a baddie would care about. I'm sure you know that though.
Bring it on boyz. I party at night, but by morning, I'll be ready for yaTurnip Head wrote:I know right? Weird!thellama73 wrote:Finally something I agree with TH on.Turnip Head wrote:I'm glad you brought up Mata, Boomslang. She is someone I would like to discuss in-depth tomorrow.
Oh it has already been broughtenMatahari wrote:Bring it on boyz. I party at night, but by morning, I'll be ready for yaTurnip Head wrote:I know right? Weird!thellama73 wrote:Finally something I agree with TH on.Turnip Head wrote:I'm glad you brought up Mata, Boomslang. She is someone I would like to discuss in-depth tomorrow.
Turnip Head wrote:Oh it has already been broughtenMatahari wrote:Bring it on boyz. I party at night, but by morning, I'll be ready for yaTurnip Head wrote:I know right? Weird!thellama73 wrote:Finally something I agree with TH on.Turnip Head wrote:I'm glad you brought up Mata, Boomslang. She is someone I would like to discuss in-depth tomorrow.
I wasn't trying to draw conclusions on the 4 of them in the lynch record post, I just found their records to be similar, and all 4 of them are people who have gone almost entirely undiscussed. There's more to why those four specifically (there are other people with vote records that don't quite match, but are similar) but with these four, there are certain detective roles (that I think are still alive) that they almost certainly aren't, because of how they've voted. That, in addition to my thinking their play styles have all been what at least some Kira are probably playing like (and specifically Mikami), makes me want to take a closer look.Turnip Head wrote:I finished reading your case(s), boo. I have to say I'm not sure I see what you see in the 4 people you plucked out. I don't see what connection there is among the four of them, other than that all 4 fit the profile of "active, but slightly under the radar". Is this the only thing that ties them all together? I saw your vote record analysis, I'm just not sure I understand what conclusion you made from it.
However, your more specific thoughts regarding Zeek are more compelling to me, I like the work you did there. His vote for Snowman still feels out of place, and it appears that Zeek himself is willing to admit that, though he says he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. Could be something there.
Your Snowman vote was easy. It was Day 2, at the time of your vote, Snowman already had 4 votes, llama had 3, a couple people had 1, and BWT (who wound up getting lynched) had 0. You didn't quote and use suspicion from someone else to justify your vote, you just made up a reason to vote for (at the time) the highest vote getter. It's interesting, because looking at your voting record, that is how you cast most of your votes.zeek wrote:What more is there to say about it? I looked for something to sway me toward a candidate and that post I referenced struck me as odd wording. I could have just reiterated a point made by somebody else and voted any player, but I didn't. I voted for what pinged me most. By the looks of it I should have just done whatever was easiest cause I'm getting criticism still for my first vote.Turnip Head wrote:However, your more specific thoughts regarding Zeek are more compelling to me, I like the work you did there. His vote for Snowman still feels out of place, and it appears that Zeek himself is willing to admit that, though he says he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. Could be something there.
Can you quote where you let us know about your change of thoughts, please and thanks?zeek wrote:As for the Kira behavioural study, I changed my thoughts on that days ago. The suspicions fly around so fast and furiously in this game that there would be no point for the to play a safe game because anybody could be lynched any day. There's a middle ground of non-aggressive, at the forefront player that is the best best.