The Syndicate

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:41 pm**

Dom wrote:Juliets what did you think when MP came under fire for describing his own civ meta?

I don't even remember it so it must not have made that much of an impression. What is not cool about defending myself by talking about my normal behavior as a civ?

DharmaHelper wrote:Who would you like to lynch today Juliets?

As I said a little earlier I'm going to take a look at the iso's of sabie and sprityo. It depends on what I see or what happens today as to where i will go next.

If I recall correctly "Chrysanthemums tawdrier maid nag." meant "against" in the legend Turnip posted. it will be easy to look back and see.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:45 pm**

Turnips legend. See top entry which is "against" -

Turnip Head wrote:
Enrique wrote:Hey TH repeat after me

against
Chrysanthemums tawdrier maid nag.

Enrique wrote:concerning
Chrysanthemums awarding dam tire.

Enrique wrote:down
Chrysanthemums rainwater dam dig.

Enrique wrote:like
Chrysanthemums awarding rim date.

Enrique wrote:off
Chrysanthemums awarding dream it.

Enrique wrote:opposite
Chrysanthemums tawdrier magna id.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:54 pm**

Hello nubs

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:11 pm**

Dunno if you were being serious Mac, but since I'm a super nice guy and all here is why I thought you were bad

THs bonus Meta point
- You going "hur dur I hinted at my role look for it peeps" when you're in danger of getting lynched

Are the two points that I think make you MacBaddie

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:35 pm**

MacDougall wrote:Let me tell you about dat Scarecrow, I think it's time we go Scarecrow hunting if y'all know what I mean.

Remember when you wanted to hunt for the Psycho Killer, and you were bad?

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:55 pm**

I'm liking juliets responses.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:55 pm**

I've reviewed sabie's 19 posts and here is what I found:

- sabie references being behind or catching up in 5 of her posts
- she appears to have missed the first vote maybe because she had just replaced in
- says that the whole change of mind by Enrique about Matt is weird, seems suspicious of it
- wonders if Enrique was forced to change his mind mid-day
- sticks with Matt vote; says Matt's posts have been strange even without the knock knock; says Enrique's decision to change his mind is odd; can't figure whats up - confused.
- defends herself that thinking enrique is weird for changing his vote randomly does not make her bad
- votes MP makes comment that he kept mentioning sig over and over again the exact same way which seemed weird; also mentions MP wanting to die
- votes MP again "Voted MP because he kept talking about sig and now sigs dead."

OK, here's what I see in sabie's posts. Before i read her my impression is she didn't fully comprehend the things going on around her because she was always catching up. Thus, her vote for vote for Matt was because she didn't realize Enrique had gone hard against going Matt, and that she didn't get that MP was cursed and that's why he was saying what he did about sig.

On the first point I think there is plenty of evidence she saw Enrique backed off Matt and implored people not to vote for him. We discussed this in the thread at the time and I think everyone else understood Enrique felt he had made a mistake and thats why he was warding us off of Matt. sabie was the only person who put a vote on Matt
after Enrique pulled off of him. I still don't feel like we have a good explanation for that as all she said is Enrique's move seemed strange and it confused her.

On the second point how did she miss something so big? We speculated as to why MP was posting that sig was his number 1 suspect and I think we all agreed it was because he had been cursed in some way, the question was only who. I don't understand why she voted him - twice - because he was repeating the mantra about sig when the curse was so obvious.

So in the end I think these these votes were suspicious and this pings me about sabie.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:58 pm**

Alright see that's the juliets that makes sense to me as a civ.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:00 pm**

Let's lynch sabie.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:00 pm**

Epignosis wrote:Gotham spring premiere tonight with Mr. Freeze.

So, from this are we to assume that given Mr Freeze's ability that bea was Renee Montoya?

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:09 pm**

There is literally 0 chance Epi would reveal someone's role like that.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:22 pm**

Glorfindel wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Gotham spring premiere tonight with Mr. Freeze.
So, from this are we to assume that given Mr Freeze's ability that bea was Renee Montoya?

Our control as hosts does not cover the assumptions you choose to make. Your will is your own.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:27 pm**

Glorfindel wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Gotham spring premiere tonight with Mr. Freeze.
So, from this are we to assume that given Mr Freeze's ability that bea was Renee Montoya?

Chrysanthemums warming radiated.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:33 pm**

Bullzeye wrote:There is literally 0 chance Epi would reveal someone's role like that.

God forbid he'd give us a break this game... If you disagree with that interpretation I'd be happy to consider any alternate theories

Is anyone silenced this Day phase that we know of?

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:39 pm**

Glorfindel wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Gotham spring premiere tonight with Mr. Freeze.
So, from this are we to assume that given Mr Freeze's ability that bea was Renee Montoya?

I could be mistaken but I think this means that the TV show Gotham has it's spring premiere tonight

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:59 pm**

DharmaHelper wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Gotham spring premiere tonight with Mr. Freeze.
So, from this are we to assume that given Mr Freeze's ability that bea was Renee Montoya?
I could be mistaken but I think this means that the TV show Gotham has it's spring premiere tonight

OK, well that's a reasonable theory I suppose?

How the hell am I supposed to know that...

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:00 pm**

Glorfindel wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Gotham spring premiere tonight with Mr. Freeze.
So, from this are we to assume that given Mr Freeze's ability that bea was Renee Montoya?
I could be mistaken but I think this means that the TV show Gotham has it's spring premiere tonight
OK, well that's a reasonable theory I suppose? How the hell am I supposed to know that...

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:13 pm**

Good thing there's no host post tonight amirite

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:16 pm**

In wake of Talking Heads I'm frustrated with MP's approach in wake of his non-lynching. It disappoints me.

I'm busy catching up again, although it may take me some time as I'm still flat out at work.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:41 pm**

Golden - are those Socky Award banners in your signature new? Congratulations, Buddy! Can't say I'm surprised...

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:51 pm**

Glorfindel wrote:Golden - are those Socky Award banners in your signature new? Congratulations, Buddy! Can't say I'm surprised...

Yes. The Socky Awards happened yesterday and you can read about all the finalists and winners in the "Events" forum near the top of the Syndicate home page.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:56 pm**

Bullzeye wrote:There is literally 0 chance Epi would reveal someone's role like that.

Or LC.

I think Bea was a good guy.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:13 pm**

Matt wrote:I don't think it's clear cut.

Does that mean we think Rupert Thorne, in general, is just a vanilla role that gains btsc with someone? I always assumed that he would gain some sort of power.

Sorry Matt. I agree with the others. It's clear cut. Rupert Thorne does not gain another person's power. He gains btsc and a win condition.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:27 pm**

Matt wrote:I don't think it's clear cut.

Does that mean we think Rupert Thorne, in general, is just a vanilla role that gains btsc with someone? I always assumed that he would gain some sort of power.

Being able to recruit yourself to someone else is pretty powerful, actually. That person would have to watch & analyze without tipping too much of their hand to make the right decision. A mafia team with 2 and a cop could gain a 4th member that way, or some civ BTS could start going down. I would think that was how most people would use that role personally. Rupert would pick someone they felt good about, and join up with them.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:33 pm**

S~V~S wrote:
Matt wrote:I don't think it's clear cut.

Does that mean we think Rupert Thorne, in general, is just a vanilla role that gains btsc with someone? I always assumed that he would gain some sort of power.
Being able to recruit yourself to someone else is pretty powerful, actually. That person would have to watch & analyze without tipping too much of their hand to make the right decision. A mafia team with 2 and a cop could gain a 4th member that way, or some civ BTS could start going down. I would think that was how most people would use that role personally. Rupert would pick someone they felt good about, and join up with them.

I agree. Gaining btsc and a win con is pretty powerful all by itself.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:43 pm**

I'm about to post a really long post and then a fairly long one after it. I apologize in advance but I couldn't think of another way to do it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:44 pm**

Ok these posts are so long I have broken them up into two posts. This post represents what I pulled from the iso that i thought had some merit and then in the next post i sum up what i found in the posts. Forgive me sprityo if I say she andwhere.

He had 83 posts at the time I did this and I still think he's at 83.

- expresses dismay over wall posts and said she just wants to read straight and simple suspicions; says people can't form their own opinion with these giant posts especially if its all civs; thoughts to sit back a couple of days and build on mistakes made;
- to zebra - why you disagree with AA option and why did it get so drawn out?; you and Matt twisting your words around; thing with MP looked like misunderstanding and should be dropped by now
- to zebra - whats point in arguing about AA when all but 10 people have already voted for it
- all received the same message at asylum; don't know what it means but assume we as players are going to interact with the cards at some point
- Mac says scotty is shifty and sprityo adds "when is he not shifty. lmao"
- informs enrique that MP said he was going to be busy; asks if Matt is a low poster;felt like the way he engaged with zebra he might have more to say; suggests he may not enjoy the spotlight
- I quote this next part because enrique raises a suspicion"

Spoiler: show

- Enrique asks GTH question; sprityo answers with maybe Matt but also goes on to say maybe a low poster because in her experience if they're gone 4 days they're gone and Epi doesn't modkill
- as another tidbit reminder says its easy for mafia to defend new people
- doesn't vote; then afterwards seems to express dismay that it was between Wilgy and Scotty:

Spoiler: show

- says would have voted Floyd or lovedelic
- suspects Enrique but not sure why
- votes last for Nerolunar
- advises MP if he wants to look at people who could have bussed nero look at black rock through herself (sprityo)
- asks if poisoning still going on and whats going on with the Penguin, no one has talked about him
- agrees with Matt that the Penguin could be blackmailing MP
- so Typh wouldn't do such a not good blackmail so who is it then?
- says she is good voting Typh but then says they should be hunting Neros partner not the Penguin; says she also good with any of the no posters
- votes Floyd says she doesnt agree with BR or Mac lynches
-

Spoiler: show

-makes several guesses as to who Mac could be based on breadcrumbs then says this:

Spoiler: show

-says once she knows if his host question whether Montoya has to silence every night he can toss some useful info into the thread (couldnt find this useful info in her posts yet I know the hosts answered this question not just for Montoya but for all players)
-says zebra is a visiting role but never answers the question when asked what that means
- last post, jokey vote for MP:

Spoiler: show

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:45 pm**

I didn't find a lot in sprityos posts to point to him being a baddie but I did find some things I want to call out and get his response to. Some of these are small things but since I detailed him I want to get those small things cleared up before they become big things.

The first thing is his comment that people should just sit back while these wall posts were going on and build on the mistakes made later. The only trouble is I never saw him refer back to that comment by building on any mistakes made. Maybe he did but if so I didn't recognize it in my iso.

Next was the comment made about Matt that he might not enjoy the spotlight. I saw that as laying down a suspicion that maybe Matt was bad because he wasn't as high profile as others. I personally haven't noticed this about Matt and he has 387 posts, in the top quarter of high posters in this game. I don't know if Matt is bad or not but this reason does not seem legit to me.

Then we have his seemlingly dismayed reaction to the tie between Wilgy and Scotty. He seemed to be casting aspersions at the group - I don't know if he was going to narrow that down or not - but a note here is he didn't vote at all. So which is worse - trying and ending in a tie or just not voting. It seems like something a baddie would do.

He also mentioned that he was not feeling good about Enrique though he didn't know why. I would have expected him to ISO Enrique or in some other way try to confirm what was making him feel pinged but I didn't see any evidence of that throughout the game. I didn't see the suspicion mentioned again.

In the vote for Nerolunar sprityo voted last. This made me wonder if perhaps sprityo was Nero's partner. I realize other people who voted at the end may also be suspect in this area but since he was dead last I thought I would mention it.

Then he advises MP to look at the second big group of voters - including him - for possible bussing. I had a thought here that maybe sprityo was trying to waive away suspicion by including himself in the group.

Regarding Typhoony, he first says if Penguin is not Typhoony then who is the Penguin? He doesnt follow that up with any thoughts about who it could be but goes on to say they should be looking for Nero's partner not the penguin. In the middle of saying this she says she could vote for Typhoony. SVS caught this in the thread and sprityo explained which I included in a spoiler. See if it is a good enough explanation for you.

Makes another statement about something he is going to do, provide useful information if the hosts answer the question about whether Montoya has to use the power of the role but after the host answered I didn't see anything forthcoming on this subject.

And finally, on her vote for MP she voted like she just looked at the list, saw he had most of the votes and voted him. Gave no reason at all.

One thing that sprityo posted that had people agreeing with him was a post about Mac's breadcrumbs. I included that post in a spoiler close to the bottom of the page.

Like I said this is not overwhelming evidence of being a baddie but there are some things to question. I hope sprityo is able to address these things soon.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:48 pm**

Just read TH's responses to MP's rainbow list. At some point soon I should try and build a rainbow list of my own, but here are some thoughts after reading that TH post:

1) Glorfindel has done a good job of defending himself against being two-face (although I still agree more with Matt than, say, Bullz, about the likelihood of 5 of the first 10 posts having references to two in them.) I'm not sure why Glorf would hint at Two-Face, but the possible reason is that someone might feel the town-aligned aspects of Two-Face might make that role seem ok. But the bit Glorfindel hasn't defended effectively against, and for me it is the much more damning bit, is his case on sig just before sig died. It's a tactic I've used when bad, and I've seen many others use it - distance yourself from the kill by saying something that you 'wouldn't say' if you knew that sig was dying. For me, the idea that glorfindel is mafia and was responsible for killing sig holds more weight than the idea he is two-face.

2) I feel better about Enrique all the time. Dude has so many ideas about what is going on and how to solve the game, and oozes being genuine. For some reason, I have never been able to shake my nagging suspicion of Enrique, but I think it is paranoia and he is actually good.

3) I think the points made on sprityo are strong and I need to read his iso. Similarly I need to read sabie's. Neither of them have given me any pings as they have posted, but perhaps in ISO they look worse based on other perspectives being posted.

4) I also haven't forgotten that DF case.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:53 pm**

All up I think I'd be most likely to vote sprityo right now, out of those I just mentioned. Glorfindel seems to be genuinely contributing in a way which could be town, and sabie I'd need to do more work on.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:55 pm**

Sorry all for not being around, it's been busy. Likely won't be around much during this d5; it has bad timing. I'll see when I have some time.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:00 pm**

Golden wrote: Glorfindel seems to be genuinely contributing in a way which could be town

Chrysanthemums tawdrier magna id.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:00 pm**

Glorfindel wrote:
bea wrote:Glor - I for one like that you are polite. Don't loose that part of your game please. We could stand to have some more of it round these parts. I know it's hard to be the new guy in a super complex game with so much talk of meta but really you are in a unique position because you can see things the rest of us might miss because we are so used to each other. Don't be affraid to voice your opinions. I for one, welcome the fresh look.
Thank you for your encouragement bea

I agree with all of this.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:01 pm**

juliets wrote:oh lol the cup of coffee. I think that's a stretch but by all means take a look. We can always ask him to confirm that with a mention of coffee in his next post.

Yeah, I don't think it means you.

If it did, I think Gordon is looking in the wrong direction.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:04 pm**

DharmaHelper wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Last night, the Batman left a cold, half-eaten carton of Easy Mac on my doorstep with a note that read, “From Bats with Love”. It even had one of those heart face whaddaya-call-its on it. I was not pleased at first, but I realized I hadn’t eaten in a long while, and after a long, fruitless day of investigating, it quite hit the spot.
Am I seriously the only one picking up on these?
No I picked up on it, even commented on it and said I hope he's not inferring that he thinks I am bad.
Great so you agree that coffee is a reference to Juliets, made by a player who knew her as Juliets Coffee.

Linki - Or we could lynch you today and find out.

Why would we take Gordon's opinions as face value and just follow them to juliet's lynch?

Major ping on DH.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:11 pm**

Golden wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Last night, the Batman left a cold, half-eaten carton of Easy Mac on my doorstep with a note that read, “From Bats with Love”. It even had one of those heart face whaddaya-call-its on it. I was not pleased at first, but I realized I hadn’t eaten in a long while, and after a long, fruitless day of investigating, it quite hit the spot.
Am I seriously the only one picking up on these?
No I picked up on it, even commented on it and said I hope he's not inferring that he thinks I am bad.
Great so you agree that coffee is a reference to Juliets, made by a player who knew her as Juliets Coffee.

Linki - Or we could lynch you today and find out.
Why would we take Gordon's opinions as face value and just follow them to juliet's lynch?

Major ping on DH.

Did I ever say that at all?

Major ping on Golden.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:12 pm**

DharmaHelper wrote: The baddie juliets I know is one to be very agreeable with outhers in the thread,

How would you describe the civvie juliets that you know?

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:13 pm**

TH... perhaps repeat after me too...

No
Yes
For

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:15 pm**

DharmaHelper wrote:
Golden wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Last night, the Batman left a cold, half-eaten carton of Easy Mac on my doorstep with a note that read, “From Bats with Love”. It even had one of those heart face whaddaya-call-its on it. I was not pleased at first, but I realized I hadn’t eaten in a long while, and after a long, fruitless day of investigating, it quite hit the spot.
Am I seriously the only one picking up on these?
No I picked up on it, even commented on it and said I hope he's not inferring that he thinks I am bad.
Great so you agree that coffee is a reference to Juliets, made by a player who knew her as Juliets Coffee.

Linki - Or we could lynch you today and find out.
Why would we take Gordon's opinions as face value and just follow them to juliet's lynch?

Major ping on DH.
Did I ever say that at all?

Major ping on Golden.

It is exactly what you implied with that post.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:17 pm**

TH, are you able to quote a single word from someone and follow it with the words "crysanthemums warming radiated", please.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:20 pm**

Golden wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Golden wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Last night, the Batman left a cold, half-eaten carton of Easy Mac on my doorstep with a note that read, “From Bats with Love”. It even had one of those heart face whaddaya-call-its on it. I was not pleased at first, but I realized I hadn’t eaten in a long while, and after a long, fruitless day of investigating, it quite hit the spot.
Am I seriously the only one picking up on these?
No I picked up on it, even commented on it and said I hope he's not inferring that he thinks I am bad.
Great so you agree that coffee is a reference to Juliets, made by a player who knew her as Juliets Coffee.

Linki - Or we could lynch you today and find out.
Why would we take Gordon's opinions as face value and just follow them to juliet's lynch?

Major ping on DH.
Did I ever say that at all?

Major ping on Golden.
It is exactly what you implied with that post.

Exactly what I SAID was I would be looking into Juliets today.

So there you go.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:21 pm**

Golden wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote: The baddie juliets I know is one to be very agreeable with outhers in the thread,
How would you describe the civvie juliets that you know?

She gives more independent thoughts when civ, when bad she is very agreeable/buddies up to the nth degree.

Also how dare you imply we should lynch MovingPictures07 in this post major ping.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:21 pm**

Golden wrote:TH... perhaps repeat after me too...

No

Chrysanthemums waterman dig raid.

Golden wrote:Yes

Chrysanthemums awarding dime art.

Golden wrote:For

Chrysanthemums warranted magi id.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:22 pm**

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Let me tell you about dat Scarecrow, I think it's time we go Scarecrow hunting if y'all know what I mean.
Remember when you wanted to hunt for the Psycho Killer, and you were bad?

Perhaps Scarecrow just told Mac that he needs himself dead to win.

linki @DH - no, exactly what you said in that post was 'Or we could lynch you today and find out'. That didn't indicate looking in to anything. It indicated lynching someone.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:23 pm**

juliets wrote:suspicious and this pings me

Chrysanthemums warming radiated.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:25 pm**

Golden wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Let me tell you about dat Scarecrow, I think it's time we go Scarecrow hunting if y'all know what I mean.
Remember when you wanted to hunt for the Psycho Killer, and you were bad?
Perhaps Scarecrow just told Mac that he needs himself dead to win.

linki @DH - no, exactly what you said in that post was 'Or we could lynch you today and find out'. That didn't indicate looking in to anything. It indicated lynching someone.

That was sarcasm.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:26 pm**

DharmaHelper wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Difficult to say, "easy mac" seems to imply he found the case on you to be too easy, but he makes it sound like Batman served you up on a plate to him. Could go either way.
I was hoping he was asking people to go easy on Mac tbh.

He couldn't have possibly had role knowledge from Batman last night as there weren't enough unaccounted for dead yet for him to have already had btsc, let alone dead cops. And it's arguable that he'd have it yet either. Here are our only unaccounted for dead. What chance that three of them are cops yet let alone last night? If he's inferring that he has role knowledge of me it's quite literally impossible, inferring role knowledge of juliets would mean he'd have to have had Batman's BTSC since last night which would mean Wilgy, Zebra and sig are all dead cops. Fat chance Zebra was a cop. He's just pushing opinions at this point DH so I would be careful jumping to "let's lynch juliets" because of it. Make a case at the very least.

DrWilgy - Killed Night 1 by the Falcone family
a2thezebra - Killed Night 2 by Bullock
sig- Killed Night 3 by the Falcone family
bea- Killed Night 4 by the Maroni Family

I'm arguing that people put JC under the microscope and we see what comes out of it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:30 pm**

Sabie, who should we lynch and why?

Glorfindel, who should we lynch and why?

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:33 pm**

Apparently everything else is sarcasm too. Your entire response to my ping has done absolutely nothing to make me feel better about you. You drew on posts that were made later, you made sarcastic remarks at me, but it takes you about ten posts just to address the original ping?

I understand that after the post that pinged me you said other things but:

1) I was reading the thread in order and so it pinged me before I read the things you said later
2) I don't see 'looking into juliets' because of gordon's message in any way as being less suspicious.

As pointed out to you, gordon had no info... but you charge ahead on the basis that you have no better idea of where to look? The whole thing reads so false to me.

And, in my opinion, I can't say I've ever seen juliets look more civ than she has in this game, and I don't need to look at her posts again to come to that opinion.

Posted: **Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:33 pm**

Dom, I can't say I have a clear understanding of your views right now. What are your overall thoughts about today?

The Syndicate

Arkham Mafia [ENDGAME]

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