The Syndicate

By the way, FZ. was not my only agenda today. I have determined some things. Late to the party on some of them? Maybe. Light has his death note still. If FZ. is Misa who gave up her death note, then it's best to lynch her Day 11. Long way away, and I realize that people may balk at "wasting a lynch" on someone who may not be able to kill, but a 4-man voting bloc in which three of those are invincible is a nightmare at endgame.

Matahari wrote:When I have reason to think there is a slight possibility that someone is a very important civ, I will not discuss that in thread. There is no call for putting a target on someone.

Matahari wrote:I used to have TH slightly on the bad side of the fence, but not now. He is moved more into the good side. DH went from gray area, by-passed the bad side completely straight to good side of fence. Daisy, BR on the good side

Alrighty then, Mata.

Matahari wrote:Slightly on the bad side, or on the fence are Llama and Epig.

Matahari wrote:And- I'm not ready to vote Llama or Epig yet, because I want to have something to more to present than 'feels'.

Matahari wrote:Boomslang, Zeke, MM, and Ricochet are ppl I'm not familiar with. With the exception of MM, who seems kind of whacky, the others trouble me because they are not saying enough to get a grip on. Although, when they do post, I don't see it as dishonest.

Matahari wrote:I also trust ppl who are susp of MM, and I could vote there as well. Made and TH are ppl I have voted because I couldn't understand their behavior. I was wrong about them, but still, it was my reason, and I can do that again.

So Mata would rather vote for a player who she felt hasn't been dishonest, for reasons that were wrong reasons in the past (her words!), rather than vote based on "feels" for either of the two players that she actually lists as being on the bad side of her suspicion-fence.

Alrighty then, Mata.

I want to call extra special attention to that last quote, because look at it one more time:

Matahari wrote:I also trust ppl who are susp of MM, and I could vote there as well. Made and TH are ppl I have voted because I couldn't understand their behavior. I was wrong about them, but still, it was my reason, and I can do that again.

Look at how hard Mata is trying to justify her vote for MM based on how she's voted previously.

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:And don't lump me in the same category as MM y'all. That guy's not helping at all and isn't afraid to make it obvious. I've survived a lynch, but I'm playing a completely different game than he is.

Just 'cause I'm not trying to 'help' you doesn't mean I'm not helping.

In fact. Give me one good reason why I should help you Mr. Death God. You are the cause of all of my struggles.

I think you've already helped me as much as you possibly can

And you can count on me to return the favor at some point.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:In fact. Give me one good reason why I should help you Mr. Death God. You are the cause of all of my struggles.

I think you've already helped me as much as you possibly can

And you can count on me to return the favor at some point.

Look at the list above you. Which of those people would have been okay making drunk bea jokes?

Yesterday I looked at the URL of the photo of the bee and unfortunately it comes from bea's photobucket. No info there.

Also, consider that BTSC is afoot. Not likely afoot. Is.

Bass_the_Clever
Black Rock
boo
Boomslang
DharmaHelper
DisgruntledPorcupine
Epignosis
FZ.
juliets
Matahari
Metalmarsh89
Ricochet
Spacedaisy
thellama73
Turnip Head
zeek

Epignosis wrote:Bass_the_Clever
Black Rock
boo
Boomslang
DharmaHelper
DisgruntledPorcupine
Epignosis
FZ.
juliets
Matahari
Metalmarsh89
Ricochet
Spacedaisy
thellama73
Turnip Head
zeek

This list checks out.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Bass_the_Clever
Black Rock
boo
Boomslang
DharmaHelper
DisgruntledPorcupine
Epignosis
FZ.
juliets
Matahari
Metalmarsh89
Ricochet
Spacedaisy
thellama73
Turnip Head
zeek

This list checks out.

It's for me, genius.

If it helps you Epi (I doubt it will)

The drawing looked kinda familiar to me and I think I might have seen it in a previous game

I'm definitely considering the BTSC angle. They've had it since at least Night 5, and possibly earlier than that. Also notice how Mata recently had a sudden clarity about a bunch of people she thinks are civs, and was totally okay talking openly about those reads, unprovoked by anyone to do so.... despite her later claims of not wanting to discuss who she thinks is civ because it would put targets on their backs. Who would want to rattle off a list of civs like that? Probably a baddie who had recently gained BTSC with (almost) her entire team. Probably a baddie trying to gain the trust of the people she named as civs.

As for the drunken bea angle, the easy answer is that it was Marshy's idea.

Epignosis wrote:Look at the list above you. Which of those people would have been okay making drunk bea jokes?

I would.

Linki: Great minds think alike.

DharmaHelper wrote:If it helps you Epi (I doubt it will)

The drawing looked kinda familiar to me and I think I might have seen it in a previous game

I had the same impression.

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:If it helps you Epi (I doubt it will)

The drawing looked kinda familiar to me and I think I might have seen it in a previous game

I had the same impression.

It's an old picture that predates Harry Potter by far.

I tried looking for it on the wayback machine on piano but that thing is fucked.

Epignosis wrote:It's an old picture that predates Harry Potter by far.

Is it old enough for an old-timey mafia veteran like Matahari to have seen?

Well, we can rule out anyone who started playing mafia after May of 2010.

While we're laying it all out there, I've got one more suspect for Team Light, and it's this fella:

Ricochet wrote:Well with less than half an hour left to vote, I feel I definitely can't build a proper reasoning on voting MM. TH's particular case on him does put him in a suspicious light, but I would only be following his [TH's] read rather than thinking it through and in a bigger picture - which is that I don't have a strong opinion on MM, currently. With the current tally, I guess we'll find out if it was a good issue to pick up on; hopefully it was and he is bad.

I think at least one of Team Light's members chose NOT to vote for Metalmarsh, and in that respect, Rico's vote here stands out to me.

I mean, come on... it would be very, very easy to have built proper reasoning on voting MM yesterday if one wanted to. For example, Ricochet had no problem voting for me earlier in the game, as well as suspecting Russtifinko, for exhibiting behavior similar to what MM has been doing all game.

Ricochet wrote:I would consider voting for TH for his early voting habits and a style of playing I can hardly comprehend taking in account previous games. Out of llama's three charges, I'd say the second is the strongest. I would consider voting for Russ based on his absence habit resurfacing, which is also inconsistent with his gameplay I knew from Donner. In fact, I was ready to find him suspicious in there for D0 mechanism arguments, but instead he's the complete opposite of an opinionated player in here. In case he might actually be laidback, carefree Shinigami and TH a brazen, untouchable Shinigami, I think it'd be interesting to try to flush them out already.

Anyone who was willing to see my behavior as Shinigami-ish, but couldn't reach a similar conclusion about MM's behavior, gets the ol' eyeball from me. I think Rico was trying to play naive about MM, and about what would happen once MM was inevitably lynched.

There was also this:

Ricochet wrote:For the record, if I won't manage to catch up, I would be ok with flushing TH out right now, but it won't be because of Epignosis' advice. Also, yeah, TH is getting pretty detestable with his early voting.

You know who Rico didn't call detestable for early voting patterns? Metalmarsh.

Let me get this straight TH. You think that one member of a possible 4 in Team Kira did not vote on my lynch, so rather than pursuing the 9 voters for 3 players who could be on my team, you are pursuing the 7 non-voters (not including myself) to find 1 such player?

Not a very efficient way to go about it.

Turnip Head wrote:

Epignosis wrote:It's an old picture that predates Harry Potter by far.

Is it old enough for an old-timey mafia veteran like Matahari to have seen?

That photo was made in a game on the ProgArchives music site like 4 years ago when MP introduced the game there to us. Only a few veterans were there, and I'm pretty sure mata wasn't one of them.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Let me get this straight TH. You think that one member of a possible 4 in Team Kira did not vote on my lynch, so rather than pursuing the 9 voters for 3 players who could be on my team, you are pursuing the 7 non-voters (not including myself) to find 1 such player?

Not a very efficient way to go about it.

Thanks for the advice! Why does it matter to you?

And I am pursuing suspicions among your voters, as well. Maybe you missed my case on Matahari?

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Let me get this straight TH. You think that one member of a possible 4 in Team Kira did not vote on my lynch, so rather than pursuing the 9 voters for 3 players who could be on my team, you are pursuing the 7 non-voters (not including myself) to find 1 such player?

Not a very efficient way to go about it.

Thanks for the advice! Why does it matter to you?

Ah yes. I should definitely listen to you, then.

Everyone's got an agenda you know.

I know. And I think your agenda is "Stop TH from figuring out who my teammates are"

It's definitely not "Help TH figure out who my teammates are", I can tell you that much.

I could care less if you figure out who my teammates are. I will neither help nor hinder.

And I'm trying to figure out yours. It's certainly not "Help the detectives", or at least it wouldn't make sense to be such.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I could care less if you figure out who my teammates are. I will neither help nor hinder.

If that's true, then I can't figure out why you bothered to reply to my suspicion of Rico at all, especially with such a dismissive attitude towards my methods. Maybe it's because I'm onto something?

My agenda is to find Kira.

You don't believe my earlier statement?

Why do you want to find Kira?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Why do you want to find Kira?

Because then this game will end and I will win and we can all play the next one.

Hmm. If only it were that simple.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Hmm. If only it were that simple.

There there now, cheer up We'll get 'em eventually, don't you worry.

Thanks bud. I knew I could count on you.

Found it http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum ... afia&PN=62

Here is the player list for the game that image is from
A Person - Brian Eno - Killed Night 7 by Maynard James Keenan
Atoms - Steve Walsh - Killed Night 1 by Richard Branson
Bea - Maynard James Keenan - Replaced Anthony H. Day 2 - WINNER
Ciubia - Robert Wyatt - Lynched: Day 7
DisgruntledPorcupine - Kerry Livgren - Killed Night 6 by Maynard James Keenan
Epignosis - Richard Branson - Killed Night 2 by Damo Suzuki
horsewithteeth11 - Ian Anderson - Killed Night 8 by Damo Suzuki
J-Man - Bill Bruford - Lynched: Day 5
jampa17 - Christian Vander - Lynched: Day 3
JJLehto - Jon Anderson - Killed Night 4 by Robert Fripp
Lizzy - Greg Lake - Killed Night 5 by Damo Suzuki
MrEdifus - Elvis Presley - Killed Night 1 by the Birds of Fire
Necktie - Peter Gabriel - Killed Night 2 by Devin Townsend
NecronCommander - Cedric Bixler-Zavala - Lynched: Day 1
nutella23 - Keith Emerson - Lynched: Day 6
progkidjoel - Michael Jackson - Lynched: Day 4
S~V~S - Damo Suzuki - Lynched: Conclusion
SaltyJon - Robert Fripp - Killed: Conclusion
Sorsha - Mikael Akerfeldt - Replaced TNPLH Night 4 - WINNER
The Sleepwalker - Carl Palmer - Killed Night 8 by Maynard James Keenan
The Truth - Kerry Minnear - Killed Night 4 by Maynard James Keenan
ThreeLittleBirds - Kurt Cobain - Killed Night 4 by Damo Suzuki
Triceratopsoil - Steven Wilson - Killed Night 3 by Damo Suzuki
UndercoverBoy - John Petrucci - Lynched: Day 2 - WINNER
Zebedee - Devin Townsend - Killed Night 3 by Kurt Cobain - WINNER

I knew i recognized the picture from someplace, then I remembered MP and I having a discussion one night via PM's and I asked him offhanded what people meant when they kept talking about "progarchives" or "prog" and he told me he had a bunch of his friends from that site come over here, and showed me his game.

That's a lovely story DH. What do you think it all means?

Turnip Head wrote:That's a lovely story DH. What do you think it all means?

Well, it certainly narrows the pool of people who would have thought to use that particular image, does it not? The player list includes only Epi and DP who are alive in this game. Although MM is from progarchives as well (or at least has an account there).

Yes, but MP hosted that game, and he's hosting this one too. For all we know, Kira came up with the theme for Bea's death, and MP inserted that picture himself because he remembered it and it fit.

But yes, Epi and DP are the only ones alive from that player list. Epi was the one who originally brought attention to the image. DP chimed in to say he didn't think Mata was around for it, but he didn't elaborate further on the issue.

I could be overthinking it and MP included the image, yeah.

I wanna talk about Bass for a real quick second.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

juliets wrote:TH, regarding your wanting to return to discussion on MM, can you link to your case on him? Or just maybe mention the major points about him and that will jar my memory.

Click this post and then keep reading down the page. Just read and absorb, form your own opinion, then come back to my analysis here...



Eventually MM makes a list of Kira suspects that fit a profile he seemed to have created on the fly... and until today, after being prompted by Bea herself to do so, he hasn't voted for or pursued any of those suspects. The question I ask myself is, is he even interested in catching Kira? The evidence says no.

I would love to point to the other times I tried to engage with MM in the same way as I did above, but after that exchange he tended to outright ignore my direct questions to him, skulking away into the shadows, only to accuse me yesterday of not bringing up any points about him. When I proved him wrong on that, he scurried back into the shadows once again. Hah!

I agree with a lot of stuff thats being talked about because of this post. I find it odd that MM had all those suspects and didn't really question any of them or vote any till pressed to. I will be voting MM today because of this.

Sorrry I just got off the road and realized I had to vote so now I'm going to bed . good night.

This post (and several other of his vote posts) is basically just parroting other peoples suspicions and looking for an excuse to vote. Pretty sketchy.

Especially when you consider this post:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

boo wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I not sure who to vote for yet. I'm going to think about it, and come back to vote later.

Does anyone else find it strange that Made forgot the one of the Sympathizers was dead? It almost makes me wonder if he could be Yotsuba and their secret win condition isn't effected by having the Sympathizers dead.

Ok, well. I did a read of Bass now.

Of 50 posts, this is the only one I want to quote, but first, most of his posts are:
1) Telling us he's getting caught up.
2) Telling us he has caught up.
3) Saying goodbye to the person who gets killed.
4) Telling us he's currently busy and well get caught up later.
5) Quoting people and offering a one or two sentence thought.
6) Quoting people he agrees with and using their reason to vote.
7) Voting without quoting, and just vaguely saying he agrees with the suspicion.

So, bass, questions for you:
1) Can you name the 3 people your most suspicious of and think you will vote for today.
2) Without quoting people, can you give reasons why you think those 3 people are the most suspicious? And I do mean reasons, not just saying Person A, Person B, and Person C, because they're suspicious.
3) We know you were right that Made was Yotsuba. Do you still think the reason Made seemed to have forgot a Sympathizer was dead was because it wasn't important to his win condition?

Well my top three are
1. TH
2. MM
3. The llama

I might be wrong or missed somethings in the thread because of how crazy RL has been and how crazy this game has been but those are the top 3.

The reason for the top two is because of them surviving the lynches. I know their are roles that aren't kiras that can survive but why should we just give them a free pass because of that.

The llama because he asked a question that made me raise my eye brow. he asked who would kill S~V~S and LC. It made me raise my brow because I asked almost the same question in zelda mafia only I asked, who would kill S~V~S and MP? The answer was lama so I think its possible that he would take those players out early here.

With made I think it might make sense because we don't know what their win conditions are.

Bass's top two suspects are odd to me for several reasons

1) They are (as he states) unlynchable or at the very least appear so. This is pretty convenient, having your top two suspects be people who can't be lynched.
2) The placement of TH above MM is odd because as we just saw, Bass agreed with TH regarding MM as being suspect. Seems like if his MM suspicion was valid he would be above TH.

And his llama addition seems like a contrived suspicion.

Haha I was looking for the thread and couldn't find it. The search feature there can be horrid. But oh the memories.

But yeah. Wasn't me. And I haven't felt bad about Epi up to this point so I'm not sure I wanna jump on him for it. It is quite possible MP did it himself.

This is for when juliets inevitably asks me where my cases on Mata and Rico are, I can just easily refer to this post :P

Mata strike 1
Mata strike 2
Mata strike 3
More Mata Madness

Ricochet thinks TH is acting like an obvious Shinigami but has no opinion on the way more suspicious Metalmarsh

Anyone is welcome to comment on my thoughts here or add their own. I would especially like to hear FZ's take.

You are much closer to victory than you think.

I'm at work, so I can't make this long.

llama, I don't get how my actions sound less genuine than my words. I avoided the hinting until I found a very good reason to do so. If the baddies actually know one another at some point in the game, then they will know that others who can't be lynched have civvie roles, and will hence know my role. Once you lynch me, it will be in the open, so it doesn't matter if I say it or not, and this is the point in time when I thought that the reasons used to get me lynched would actually be compelling enough to get me lynched.
If I'd been a baddie that can't be lynched, I wouldn't have cared if I were lynched, because the civvies would be too confused to figure out when I can or can't be lynched. But with the civvie roles that can't be lynched, it might be a lot easier to figure out when they could be lynched, so I was trying to not go there. Maybe I shouldn't have done it anyway, and just waited to see if I was the one getting the most votes, but I'm so sick of defending myself, that I thought that if I said it, it would actually make a difference.

Just out of curiosity, how many of you can honestly say that had they been a civvie accused for 8 days, they wouldn't have lost it by now? (Just a small reminder: Epi snapped quite early (assuming he's good, Bea snapped relatively fast). I think I should get a medal for keeping it up for so long.

And now for my thoughts (I still need to finish catching up, but I'll do it later):

TH, you asked about my thoughts on Mata. The thing that made me consider maybe you're right, is the fact that up until this day, she said she was suspicious of me, but ended up voting elsewhere, and this day, when you'd expect her to actually ponder what I've said, is when she's more suspicious of me. It made me think that maybe when she though I was bad, she didn't want to lynch me, and when she's realizing I might be good, she's willing to vote for me because she doesn't need me.


Bass is definitely giving the most expected and easy suspicions, except for maybe llama, but I have no idea if his personal life has affected his game. At this point, he's giving nothing. He fits the sit back and let them all fight to the tee, so I can see myself voting there too. I would like him to comment truthfully about how much he's been invested in the game.

Rico seems very logical to me, but I'll have to reread him. I haven't been getting any bad vibes from him, but logical people can easily fool me.

Zeek seems okay to me. I don't think I agree with whoever called him out. I think it was Boo.

Juliets- I've never seen her as a baddie, but she always seems nice and considering all angles. I can see why she would rely on Epi's analysis, but I would like to hear more from her in terms of her own thoughts regarding other people.