This isn’t so much a gotcha as it is a logical fallacy from my POV.
>“Iawy has decent reads in general” is pretty subjective. Who’s to say mine aren’t decent?
> “POE members tend to have better reads because they have a green check on themselves and so have slightly better perspective than everyone else in the thread”
Ok, so. I have a green check on myself.
>”This is enough to put him in the POE”
To put it another way: ‘I like the taste of beef burgers’
‘If someone makes a beef burger, odds are it’ll be good’
‘Someone made a fake beef burger’
‘I’m not even going to bother trying that garbage’
It doesn't matter how good your reads are if I think you are mafia. I only care about the goodness of your reads if I think you are town in the first place.
IAWY flipped town so I can trust him. What reasons have you provided me to trust you? Mac and Sloonei see something in your posting which is the only reason I'm keeping you out of the POE, but I haven't seen you do anything pro town other than shoot IAWY... which could easily have been a loud shot you are pretending is a silent one for cred.
I see that someone mentioned you were gifted a shot. Why do you think you out of all people were selected for that gift?
You’re twisting your own words tho. Of course you can trust iawy because he flipped. You literally said because he was in the poe (implying before being flipped) he had better reads in general.
But we’re talking in circles
Being town and in the POE makes you have better reads.
The problem is that being in the POE in the first place makes me unable to trust you.
But if you are in the POE and then flip town, now I can go back to your old reads (that I didn't trust) and have more faith in them knowing you are trustworthy and have good reads.
This is what happened to IAWY.
His legacy was that you and Kate were mafia.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:21 pm
by Creature
I dunno let's just hope that's a wolf flip so we won't need to have that talk.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:21 pm
by MacDougall
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:19 pm
Why Party didnt shoot me if they are so sure im scum i wonder.
Well assuming it isn't a pure meme I'd suggest it's probably because they think Marmot is scum as well, and have less doubt than on you. People are allowed to have more than one scumread.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:21 pm
by MacDougall
If Marmot flips town I'm gonna be next level butthurt btw.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:21 pm
by nutella
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:10 pm
I haven’t found dizzy wolfy. Or scotty.
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:10 pm
I haven’t found dizzy wolfy. Or scotty.
Dizzy is never "wolfy" as a wolf. They have immaculate presentation. You need to try harder to read them, which in this gamestate is hard because of the, as you've said, "tropiness" of everything. Dizzy is well placed to be able to easily snake through in this type of gamestate. I don't think Dyslexicon has exhibited an intent to contribute to the town wincon through the lions share of their posts. Their analysis has been disjointed, they have no fire and I am also annoyed with them right now and have decided everyone making me feel bad can die for selfish reasons.
This isn’t so much a gotcha as it is a logical fallacy from my POV.
>“Iawy has decent reads in general” is pretty subjective. Who’s to say mine aren’t decent?
> “POE members tend to have better reads because they have a green check on themselves and so have slightly better perspective than everyone else in the thread”
Ok, so. I have a green check on myself.
>”This is enough to put him in the POE”
To put it another way: ‘I like the taste of beef burgers’
‘If someone makes a beef burger, odds are it’ll be good’
‘Someone made a fake beef burger’
‘I’m not even going to bother trying that garbage’
It doesn't matter how good your reads are if I think you are mafia. I only care about the goodness of your reads if I think you are town in the first place.
IAWY flipped town so I can trust him. What reasons have you provided me to trust you? Mac and Sloonei see something in your posting which is the only reason I'm keeping you out of the POE, but I haven't seen you do anything pro town other than shoot IAWY... which could easily have been a loud shot you are pretending is a silent one for cred.
I see that someone mentioned you were gifted a shot. Why do you think you out of all people were selected for that gift?
You’re twisting your own words tho. Of course you can trust iawy because he flipped. You literally said because he was in the poe (implying before being flipped) he had better reads in general.
But we’re talking in circles
Oh, as to your last point- I don’t know- last time I got 2 guns, I shot and killed you in endgame to win. So…there’s that?
In that game you were randomly given the gun by a redirected night action, and you used it well because the mechanical gamestate meant that BlueKang had to be mafia from your point of view. The hypothetical gun giver in this game would have no reason to trust you were town (nobody had you as top town iirc) and no reason to trust that your reads would be particularly good. Someone like nutella is far more consensus town and also far more likely to have good reads - so I am wondering why this gun giver chose to give you the gun and not her.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:23 pm
by Creature
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
There is def a wolf in Mac, Alison, Golden, Neon dynamic.
Neon is very likely just town. The rest I can see being wolves.
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:19 pm
Why Party didnt shoot me if they are so sure im scum i wonder.
Well assuming it isn't a pure meme I'd suggest it's probably because they think Marmot is scum as well, and have less doubt than on you. People are allowed to have more than one scumread.
You are their lawyer too?
I post that stuff so they react to my shade, not someone else for them.
Do you mind not get on my business?
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:24 pm
by Golden
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
There is def a wolf in Mac, Alison, Golden, Neon dynamic.
Just because
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:25 pm
by S~V~S
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 2:56 pm
The POE turning on each other immediately (SVS scumreading Marmot, 112 and MR getting into a fight) is extremely funny
Hyperbole much? I didn’t “turn on Marmot”; I started reading his posts.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:25 pm
by Creature
Marmot flipping wolf would also be useful for me to not suspect Party Crasher for that shot.
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
There is def a wolf in Mac, Alison, Golden, Neon dynamic.
Neon is very likely just town. The rest I can see being wolves.
Creature, through two posts… “The entire town core are wolves” lol.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:26 pm
by Creature
[VOTE:
Kate] aubergine
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:26 pm
by Party Crasher
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
@Alison you are the one protecting Guillo so can you please make it your job to control the impact hes having on the threadstate?
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:26 pm
by MacDougall
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
There is def a wolf in Mac, Alison, Golden, Neon dynamic.
Neon is hyperposting and shot a wolf. Also is clearly spewed not with Sabi. Neon is only a wolf in multiball.
Alison maybe... if I had gth and needed to be right between these three that's who I'd go for.
Golden less likely but also possible. A lot of people here aren't familiar with Golden but he's s-tier at wolfing and while I've vibed with him a fair bit on day 2, I think it's within his range. But I still have him a strong town lean.
I get that your baseline play is to always assume that the people being the most productive and influential are suspect and I share that mindset but it's bad mafia to hyperfixate on it to the detriment of more +ev play such as towncoring and POE play. What you're doing is just being extremely disruptive to the town's main heartbeat by doing what you are doing here. Even if it's infiltrated, it would be at most by 1 slot and that slot will be being forced to deepwolf and hard townside, they have wolf teammates that are easier snares. Let them.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:27 pm
by Guillotine
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
@Alison you are the one protecting Guillo so can you please make it your job to control the impact hes having on the threadstate?
This is funny. The only way to tame me is by killing my wim with personal attacks. Nothing else can control me. The only other option is death.
Why arent you pushing me for an elimination when you have had nothing but shade on regards of me?
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:19 pm
Why Party didnt shoot me if they are so sure im scum i wonder.
Well assuming it isn't a pure meme I'd suggest it's probably because they think Marmot is scum as well, and have less doubt than on you. People are allowed to have more than one scumread.
You are their lawyer too?
I post that stuff so they react to my shade, not someone else for them.
Do you mind not get on my business?
Sure as long as you stop interacting with or about me.
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:19 pm
Why Party didnt shoot me if they are so sure im scum i wonder.
Well assuming it isn't a pure meme I'd suggest it's probably because they think Marmot is scum as well, and have less doubt than on you. People are allowed to have more than one scumread.
You are their lawyer too?
I post that stuff so they react to my shade, not someone else for them.
Do you mind not get on my business?
Sure as long as you stop interacting with or about me.
With you sure. About you impossible.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:29 pm
by Alison
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
@Alison you are the one protecting Guillo so can you please make it your job to control the impact hes having on the threadstate?
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
@Alison you are the one protecting Guillo so can you please make it your job to control the impact hes having on the threadstate?
This is funny. The only way to tame me is by killing my wim with personal attacks. Nothing else can control me. The only other option is death.
Why arent you pushing me for an elimination when you have had nothing but shade on regards of me?
Scared?
Well aside from the fact that I actually am, if I am not doing so as directly as you like it's because I don't enjoy doing so and I'm trying to be democratic and certain people are townreading you that I think are either town or if not town wolves probably spewing you town.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
@Alison you are the one protecting Guillo so can you please make it your job to control the impact hes having on the threadstate?
This is funny. The only way to tame me is by killing my wim with personal attacks. Nothing else can control me. The only other option is death.
Why arent you pushing me for an elimination when you have had nothing but shade on regards of me?
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:19 pm
Why Party didnt shoot me if they are so sure im scum i wonder.
Well assuming it isn't a pure meme I'd suggest it's probably because they think Marmot is scum as well, and have less doubt than on you. People are allowed to have more than one scumread.
You are their lawyer too?
I post that stuff so they react to my shade, not someone else for them.
Do you mind not get on my business?
Sure as long as you stop interacting with or about me.
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
There is def a wolf in Mac, Alison, Golden, Neon dynamic.
Neon is very likely just town. The rest I can see being wolves.
Creature, through two posts… “The entire town core are wolves” lol.
Alison and Mac are both players that can only be trusted if they are hitting wolves. If they keep pushing town then they're definitely suspicious.
You're not towncore at all.
I pushed sabi a lot day 1. Arguably my main read. Why am I a suspect?
I don't want you claiming cred for an already dead wolf. I want you to get us a new wolf pelt.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:31 pm
by MacDougall
Guillotine how can your mindset be that I'm not pushing you for elimination when you've literally quoted and replied to posts I made with you in the lower of my POE?
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
There is def a wolf in Mac, Alison, Golden, Neon dynamic.
Neon is very likely just town. The rest I can see being wolves.
Creature, through two posts… “The entire town core are wolves” lol.
Alison and Mac are both players that can only be trusted if they are hitting wolves. If they keep pushing town then they're definitely suspicious.
You're not towncore at all.
I pushed sabi a lot day 1. Arguably my main read. Why am I a suspect?
I don't want you claiming cred for an already dead wolf. I want you to get us a new wolf pelt.
Sure and what pelt do you have?
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:32 pm
by Alison
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
@Alison why do you townread me?
Because your push on Mac early D2 is the exact same "latch onto something random and tinfoil a strong consenus town player" move that you do every single town game. As mafia I think you'd find it difficult to replicate that energy and more importantly you'd be less inclined to antagonize Mac because the backlash would undermine your thread position for no real gain (since you are never going to misexe him), whereas as town you're more likely to speak your mind if you think someone is mafia backlash or not.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:32 pm
by Creature
Marmot better be a wolf flip so I don't feel like we're getting too behind.
Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:22 pm
There is def a wolf in Mac, Alison, Golden, Neon dynamic.
Neon is very likely just town. The rest I can see being wolves.
Creature, through two posts… “The entire town core are wolves” lol.
Alison and Mac are both players that can only be trusted if they are hitting wolves. If they keep pushing town then they're definitely suspicious.
You're not towncore at all.
Oh yeah I am.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:34 pm
by Party Crasher
Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:32 pm
Marmot better be a wolf flip so I don't feel like we're getting too behind.
i was just trolling. u deserve it trolling for me in cartomancy. get clowned kid
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:34 pm
by MacDougall
Creature is entitled to think we are possibly wolves. Though at this juncture I think it strongly benefits town if our team stopped dwelling on possibilities and started focusing more on probabilities. Genuinely think all town need to start analysing their play through that lens.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:35 pm
by Dyslexicon
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:11 am
i actually like dizzy's ISO at a glance, I don't think it's a wolf ISO
Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:32 pm
Marmot better be a wolf flip so I don't feel like we're getting too behind.
i was just trolling. u deserve it trolling for me in cartomancy. get clowned kid
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:36 pm
by Alison
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:34 pm
Creature is entitled to think we are possibly wolves. Though at this juncture I think it strongly benefits town if our team stopped dwelling on possibilities and started focusing more on probabilities. Genuinely think all town need to start analysing their play through that lens.
Personally I felt like we had some extremely good solving going on last night and a really solid POE with solid reasoning and then people came back into the thread and started causing chaos for no fucking reason and throwing random reads around instead of just playing the game in an orderly manner. Unfortunately this is not AI because that is just how some people are (Guillo and tutuu especially) but it annoys me.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:38 pm
by MacDougall
Possibility that Golden, Alison, Mac contains a wolf? Of course.
Probability? Well from my perspective no it's not probable. And because it's not probable it's not something I think should be being remonstrated in the thread where other players less immersed in the game are forced to swim through where more productive content could instead be placed.
And even if it were probable, unless you think that the net result of the day 2 chop is improved by highlighting this fact over and over, it's probably better to keep it as an idea and actually force the wolf/s between us to kill a weaker teammate via the POE play that we've committed ourselves to, because the alternative is probably just a quite random end of day where the wolves just easily manipulate the wagon onto the scummiest townie.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:38 pm
by Alison
I would like @Sloonei to comment on how he feels about the POE of 4 that me/Mac/Golden hashed out last night (112, Radishes, Marmot, SVS). Do you agree with it, do you think we're misclearing someone, do you think one of these people should be cleared, etc.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:34 pm
Creature is entitled to think we are possibly wolves. Though at this juncture I think it strongly benefits town if our team stopped dwelling on possibilities and started focusing more on probabilities. Genuinely think all town need to start analysing their play through that lens.
Personally I felt like we had some extremely good solving going on last night and a really solid POE with solid reasoning and then people came back into the thread and started causing chaos for no fucking reason and throwing random reads around instead of just playing the game in an orderly manner. Unfortunately this is not AI because that is just how some people are (Guillo and tutuu especially) but it annoys me.
Well yes I feel exactly the same and I'm trying right now to appeal to logic to get it to end.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:34 pm
Creature is entitled to think we are possibly wolves. Though at this juncture I think it strongly benefits town if our team stopped dwelling on possibilities and started focusing more on probabilities. Genuinely think all town need to start analysing their play through that lens.
Personally I felt like we had some extremely good solving going on last night and a really solid POE with solid reasoning and then people came back into the thread and started causing chaos for no fucking reason and throwing random reads around instead of just playing the game in an orderly manner. Unfortunately this is not AI because that is just how some people are (Guillo and tutuu especially) but it annoys me.
Yeah this is exactly why I kept pushing guillo back there.
Everyone should be engaging with those pages and that content imo
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:40 pm
by Creature
Ok looks like nothing will really happen at all today.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:41 pm
by Golden
Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:40 pm
Ok looks like nothing will really happen at all today.
I would shoot this.
Re: Game of Champions 2022 D2
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:41 pm
by Creature
This is why I can't stand large games without ITA.
