The Syndicate

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:53 am The rand for wolf is 18.2%

Too low atp to waste an Elim on a null slot.

Find someone scummier.

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:56 pm A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second . Few things I’ve picked up from that game and previous champs games this year that I think might be important for us to incorporate and areas where I picked up previous towns went wrong

-This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

- if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

MissSparkles wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:42 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:12 pm

MissSparkles wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:05 pm im slightly upset than that marmot is wasting his vote on me rn rather than voting Alison, i found it odd he isnt, maybe he doesnt want too eliminate a possible pairing early aka him and alison early on as scum which would be smart and kinda explains the vote on me more.

This is actually why im voting you lol, expressing sadness to get others to do a thing you want them to do.

You did the same thing when you expressed sadness to falcon because he hasn't changed his pfp.

You also did it when you used sad panda emotes to get nook to work with you


It's a form of AtE that is perfectly acceptable, but imo manipulative.

When is a manipulative Sparkles just and only a scum Sparkles, when youre good at the manipulation game dont you think id use it as both alignments, have you never seen me manipulate as town before really, its my claim to fame.

Votine me over Alison for this in your POV doesnèt feel very kosher, maybe im onto something.

[VOTE: Marmy] aubergine

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:21 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:16 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:31 pm why did u vote me @JaggedJimmyJay

You strike me as someone more likely than the average bear to respond readably to a random vote. I'm not sure that has borne fruit though.

The question is, do I feel the same about your response to my (seemingly) random vote on you?




No, I do not.




I think there's an above average chance your scum this game. Let's call it a 68% chance

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:45 pm To expand a little on some of my prior Alison commentary:

I think that she must be interpreted for motivation (at least before results-based assessment via flips can provide additional insight), because her principled strategies and application of her views of logic to the game are going to be consistent and generally unrevealing. For her to turn the day into a combative thunderdomy mess, ham-fisting the "murder falcon" narrative wouldn't be especially productive on its own power unless falcon is exactly mafia; indeed, it'd even remind me of Halvosen Ridge Day 1 between her and Rondo (both mafia).

Alison's handling of this incident was considerably more nuanced and more balanced, in that she seemed to understand and intend the greater function of her attacks -- to turn the game thread into something pro-town regardless of falcon. This is the kind of thing I think she associates with MacDougall, validly, and I have behaved similarly in many past games. As soon as folks began to interact with her calls to murder falcon [and then her if he flips green etc], she took inventory (e.g., #240) and morphed it into different reads (e.g., #267, #330) stemming directly from that origin combat. I think that's a nice sign.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:03 pm Speaking of that, I never thought I'd get to type this sentence:

@DrWilgy be wary of the post cap.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:21 am Why am I connected with jjj? His reasoning on me was incorrect

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:38 pm I think everyones hould stop posting

outed wolf wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:33 pm falcon/sparkles seem like fine kills to me.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:08 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:05 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:04 pm My top suspects are Marmot and Sparkles. Everyone else is various shades of null to town right now.

I don't think lucy's opening is AI for her. I would like to see the promised thoughts as it has been 5 hours. @lucy

why sparkles

The use of my SK meta to townread me is a little dubious. I get the argument that it involves no TMI but I would think you would at least hesitate a bit before applying a 1:1 correlation. Then she came under pressure and responded horribly to it.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:10 pm I think the one that stood out to me most was when she got mad at Marmor for voting her and not me... like what? Marmot clearly suspects her too, why is it sus for him to vote one of his top two suspects?

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:45 pm shall we honor tradition and Lynch marmot after he pelts a wolf

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:48 am

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:45 pm shall we honor tradition and Lynch marmot after he pelts a wolf

Is this a Lucy tr on Marmot imbedded in humor?

Perhaps I'm just going to hard on the 'gotta figure out how to read Lucy d1' but is it worth to juxtapose humor against lack of read claim?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:49 am I don't get why lucy is getting this pressure when Nook plays the same style and doesn't do anything AI till later in the game.

I just think yall think of her as lhf

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:45 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:08 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:05 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:04 pm My top suspects are Marmot and Sparkles. Everyone else is various shades of null to town right now.

I don't think lucy's opening is AI for her. I would like to see the promised thoughts as it has been 5 hours. @lucy

why sparkles

The use of my SK meta to townread me is a little dubious. I get the argument that it involves no TMI but I would think you would at least hesitate a bit before applying a 1:1 correlation. Then she came under pressure and responded horribly to it.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:10 pm I think the one that stood out to me most was when she got mad at Marmor for voting her and not me... like what? Marmot clearly suspects her too, why is it sus for him to vote one of his top two suspects?

This is well stated and reflects my questions on the chebonkle.

Alison, I do question, what do you make of them being w/w in spite of this?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:03 am (marmot you can read all of lucy games to see she never follows that and she's been town for most of those games)

(idk why I'm trying to save Lucy)

(i think it's partially from the guilt of taking advantage of miseliming her last game)

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:31 am I am wavering on whether or not to give Marmot town points for going back to check Lucy's meta. On one hand I feel like I am giving a very skilled wolf points for something so easy to fake. On the other hand... if Marmot is wolves with Lucy he doesn't need to do this, and if he's wolf against Lucy town he also doesn't need to do this, he can let me and Esooa do the dirty work.

I kinda think it represents Marmot's authentic attempt to dig into Lucy's meta claims. I will give him town points.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:58 am

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:31 am I am wavering on whether or not to give Marmot town points for going back to check Lucy's meta. On one hand I feel like I am giving a very skilled wolf points for something so easy to fake. On the other hand... if Marmot is wolves with Lucy he doesn't need to do this, and if he's wolf against Lucy town he also doesn't need to do this, he can let me and Esooa do the dirty work.

I kinda think it represents Marmot's authentic attempt to dig into Lucy's meta claims. I will give him town points.

I don't accept your town points either way.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:54 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:48 am

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:45 pm shall we honor tradition and Lynch marmot after he pelts a wolf

Is this a Lucy tr on Marmot imbedded in humor?

Perhaps I'm just going to hard on the 'gotta figure out how to read Lucy d1' but is it worth to juxtapose humor against lack of read claim?

Lucy's referencing the recent Champs semifinals game where I subbed in, was mostly townread by the rest of the game, helped bury and chop a wolf, and then was promptly flash wagoned the next day for mostly inexplicable reasons.

As for the read, my guess is it isn't since she doesn't do Day 1 reads.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:06 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:54 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:48 am

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:45 pm shall we honor tradition and Lynch marmot after he pelts a wolf

Is this a Lucy tr on Marmot imbedded in humor?

Perhaps I'm just going to hard on the 'gotta figure out how to read Lucy d1' but is it worth to juxtapose humor against lack of read claim?

Lucy's referencing the recent Champs semifinals game where I subbed in, was mostly townread by the rest of the game, helped bury and chop a wolf, and then was promptly flash wagoned the next day for mostly inexplicable reasons.

As for the read, my guess is it isn't since she doesn't do Day 1 reads.

Last game, where she was town, she did D1 reads and expressed a desire to change her meta.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:42 pm @Sabiplz can you please elaborate on the Alison vote? I want into your head again.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:34 pm As I read I seem to be finding myself with a sticking thought. Comparing how Esooa and Alison are interacting with Lucy and comparing Lucy to Nook.

I believe Lucy truly does feel that their scum range and town range are the same but further think this in itself is a misconception they have come to believe. Non compliance isn't a range, it's anti-town behavior. You can do either as town or wolf, but it will nonetheless result in you appearing Wolfy or wanting to be removed by either faction.

I feel credence in Alison's w lean towards 'I'll give a read in afew hours' and a read was never given.

I feel that the marmot comment I quoted earlier was implying a tl on marmot even if there was context to the joke, which contradicts the 'lack of read' Lucy has.

These things put Lucy in what I'd perceive as W range.

Esooa without the 'read' but wanting to elim anti town behavior keeps Esooa in a state of the vote could be from either faction.

Nook's non-compliance probably has minutia similar to Lucy's to pick up on but I haven't seen it yet.

So Lucy is a slight W read that I can definitely be wrong about. Alison's w read on Lucy I can believe to be genuine. Esooa's is NAI. Nook's slightly higher on the totem pole that Lucy.

Lucy, if you are town, you need to show some of town range, as you are in fact showing wolf range. If we yeet you for non-compliance, i'd say it's a hard argument for you to make that you didn't contribute to the loss. The entire vulture discussion indicates that you'd break meta to not lose, why would not breaking meta here to show town range, not count as a loss in your book?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:56 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:42 pm @Sabiplz can you please elaborate on the Alison vote? I want into your head again.

Basically nothing towny from her. She moved from one lhf (Falcon) to another (lucy). Her reasoning to push her is weak and for someone that wants to win, she has no care that her policy pushing is going to force us into limlo due to miselims. It's anti town.


None of her pushes and reads have been pro town. It's all been centered around Alison.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:01 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:56 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:42 pm @Sabiplz can you please elaborate on the Alison vote? I want into your head again.

Basically nothing towny from her. She moved from one lhf (Falcon) to another (lucy). Her reasoning to push her is weak and for someone that wants to win, she has no care that her policy pushing is going to force us into limlo due to miselims. It's anti town.


None of her pushes and reads have been pro town. It's all been centered around Alison.

So am I correct to assume that you believe the reason Alison has provided for the Wolf lean on Lucy is fake?

What do you make of me voting Lucy since I seem to be on a similar wavelength at least on that one?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:03 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:01 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:56 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:42 pm @Sabiplz can you please elaborate on the Alison vote? I want into your head again.

Basically nothing towny from her. She moved from one lhf (Falcon) to another (lucy). Her reasoning to push her is weak and for someone that wants to win, she has no care that her policy pushing is going to force us into limlo due to miselims. It's anti town.


None of her pushes and reads have been pro town. It's all been centered around Alison.

So am I correct to assume that you believe the reason Alison has provided for the Wolf lean on Lucy is fake?

What do you make of me voting Lucy since I seem to be on a similar wavelength at least on that one?

I'm holding Alison to a higher standard than to you. I have seen her scum hunt and provide cases that were reasonable in other games that I'm not seeing here at all from her.

I don't get why you and Falcon voted for her besides to bandwagon.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:05 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:03 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:01 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:56 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:42 pm @Sabiplz can you please elaborate on the Alison vote? I want into your head again.

Basically nothing towny from her. She moved from one lhf (Falcon) to another (lucy). Her reasoning to push her is weak and for someone that wants to win, she has no care that her policy pushing is going to force us into limlo due to miselims. It's anti town.


None of her pushes and reads have been pro town. It's all been centered around Alison.

So am I correct to assume that you believe the reason Alison has provided for the Wolf lean on Lucy is fake?

What do you make of me voting Lucy since I seem to be on a similar wavelength at least on that one?

I'm holding Alison to a higher standard than to you. I have seen her scum hunt and provide cases that were reasonable in other games that I'm not seeing here at all from her.

I don't get why you and Falcon voted for her besides to bandwagon.

I believe I've iterated it quite clearly above that it's a combination of W lean for contradictions and anti-town behaviors.

Is that difficult to understand/do you have arguments to the contradiction I've noticed?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:34 pm As I read I seem to be finding myself with a sticking thought. Comparing how Esooa and Alison are interacting with Lucy and comparing Lucy to Nook.

I believe Lucy truly does feel that their scum range and town range are the same but further think this in itself is a misconception they have come to believe. Non compliance isn't a range, it's anti-town behavior. You can do either as town or wolf, but it will nonetheless result in you appearing Wolfy or wanting to be removed by either faction.

I feel credence in Alison's w lean towards 'I'll give a read in afew hours' and a read was never given.

I feel that the marmot comment I quoted earlier was implying a tl on marmot even if there was context to the joke, which contradicts the 'lack of read' Lucy has.

These things put Lucy in what I'd perceive as W range.

Esooa without the 'read' but wanting to elim anti town behavior keeps Esooa in a state of the vote could be from either faction.

Nook's non-compliance probably has minutia similar to Lucy's to pick up on but I haven't seen it yet.

So Lucy is a slight W read that I can definitely be wrong about. Alison's w read on Lucy I can believe to be genuine. Esooa's is NAI. Nook's slightly higher on the totem pole that Lucy.

Lucy, if you are town, you need to show some of town range, as you are in fact showing wolf range. If we yeet you for non-compliance, i'd say it's a hard argument for you to make that you didn't contribute to the loss. The entire vulture discussion indicates that you'd break meta to not lose, why would not breaking meta here to show town range, not count as a loss in your book?

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:13 am

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:56 pm A few things I wanna say before we get started for those of you who don’t know. Champs, particularly in qualifiers is incredibly scumsided. The current stats are 54 wolf wins to 19 town wins for qualifiers. Not only that but from what I know there has only ever been one town sweep in qualifier game for champs, and my goal is for us to be the second . Few things I’ve picked up from that game and previous champs games this year that I think might be important for us to incorporate and areas where I picked up previous towns went wrong

-This point may already be obvious to some but : the most important thing you can do as a villager is make yourself an obvious villager. The last town that swept was led by Jjj/spf and they encouraged a playstyle that focussed heavily on finding other townies first before hunting for wolves and the best way to facilitate that is by making yourself an obvious townie and taking yourself out of the miselimination pool and working with open communication to find other townies. Champs by nature encourages a glory hunting playstyle where people want to be the one who catches wolves before everyone and be the one to bury wolves but the most successful towns have always been the ones that focussed more on working with each other and finding other townies before trying to bury wolves. If we can all do our part to raise the bar of towniness wolves will eventually out themselves and either be forced to push obvious townies and further out themselves, bus each other or just give up and lolcat.

- if the game starts too feel too easy it probably means there’s something wrong. The stats don’t lie, this is favored for wolves which means it’s not supposed to be easy for us. People often go for the easiest/least accountable votes on d1 but keep in mind wolves have teammates and I’ve rarely seen wolves bus hard d1 in champs. So if the entire lobby is dogpiling on one or two slots d1 don’t get complacent because we could be way off.

lucy posted this in Halvøsen Ridge Mafia on Day 0. Her behavior this game is a complete departure from the second point in this one.

@lucy why is this different?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:21 am Why am I connected with jjj? His reasoning on me was incorrect

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:57 pm That lucy post Marmot referenced from Halvosen ridge is a copypasta. illario posted that in champs game 7.

I don’t know that this means much, but it seems important to clarify. Lucy herself didn’t clarify this unless I missed it, so that’s confusing.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:03 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:21 am Why am I connected with jjj? His reasoning on me was incorrect

What did I get wrong, Sabiroo?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:03 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:57 pm That lucy post Marmot referenced from Halvosen ridge is a copypasta. illario posted that in champs game 7.

I don’t know that this means much, but it seems important to clarify. Lucy herself didn’t clarify this unless I missed it, so that’s confusing.

Does this make them not partners?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:04 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:03 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:21 am Why am I connected with jjj? His reasoning on me was incorrect

What did I get wrong, Sabiroo?

That I wasn't doing enough solving in my wolf game.

I could still be in my wolf range. Each of my wolf Rands have been different.