The Syndicate

boo wrote: I think he's only voted once. I asked at the beginning of the game, and Epi said he would accept (and prefers) group PMs, so yes, they'd be able to use his power even if he weren't around.

He voted for me on Day 1 and for himself tonight.

I went with BWT.

Dom wrote:I went with BWT.

You are so mean to me.

Ya, twice. He's voted in a lynch, and showed up to vote for himself in this poll. I don't really know what to think of what he's doing. If he's a civ trying to learn the game, I would expect posts asking questions. I don't think a baddie team would tell him not to post from the start of the game, but if he just wasn't around, or didn't want to, maybe they're telling him to stay the course.

My problem with the presumption of innocence is that if he's a baddie, generally keeping him out play could be a ploy to still have him around later in the game where his vote could matter, so leaving him in play could bite us in the ass down the line. Voting for him could help force him out and start talking, at which point he would at least be contributing, which could help give a read either way.

It isn't what I want to do for D3, but if other options are closed off, I could see going that way, at least putting enough votes on him to try and shake him (and his team if he has one) into having him participate.

Dom wrote:I went with BWT.

Are you fly-bying, going with Eloh/SVS stuff, going with MP stuff (which I think is my reason, under the guise of Eloh/SVS stuff, but he wasn't actually ready to confirm), going with my stuff, or some other reason that you just didn't care to share?

boo wrote: My problem with the presumption of innocence is that if he's a baddie, generally keeping him out play could be a ploy to still have him around later in the game where his vote could matter, so leaving him in play could bite us in the ass down the line. Voting for him could help force him out and start talking, at which point he would at least be contributing, which could help give a read either way.

My problem with the presumption of innocence also spills over into future games. Ignoring this sort of absenteeism sends a clear signal to future baddies that they can win by simply not playing. I think thta is bad for mafia as a whole, not just for this game.

thellama73 wrote:

boo wrote: My problem with the presumption of innocence is that if he's a baddie, generally keeping him out play could be a ploy to still have him around later in the game where his vote could matter, so leaving him in play could bite us in the ass down the line. Voting for him could help force him out and start talking, at which point he would at least be contributing, which could help give a read either way.

My problem with the presumption of innocence also spills over into future games. Ignoring this sort of absenteeism sends a clear signal to future baddies that they can win by simply not playing. I think thta is bad for mafia as a whole, not just for this game.

Well, I don't disagree, but it isn't exactly new behavior, and it is quite prevalent with some players. Maybe that's just the sort he'll be, but since we have no way of knowing right now, I don't think letting it slide is a good idea. And if it were the type of player he was going to become, and this made him change his mind in the future, even better as far as I'm concerned. Near complete non-participation doesn't make the game fun, so I see no reason to put up with it from him, or anyone else, and at this point in the game, I think he should realize people want him to show up. Since that hasn't happened, if he's a civ, I'm assuming he isn't reading, so maybe taking some votes will force him to re-evaluate and actually read and learn.

So yes, I more or less agree with you.

Now, people, vote for BWT so we can lynch llama. SKs and unknowns are bad for business.

Also, where the hell is rey? He has 4 posts since the prologue. I do not trust quiet rey.

thellama73 wrote:

boo wrote: My problem with the presumption of innocence is that if he's a baddie, generally keeping him out play could be a ploy to still have him around later in the game where his vote could matter, so leaving him in play could bite us in the ass down the line. Voting for him could help force him out and start talking, at which point he would at least be contributing, which could help give a read either way.

My problem with the presumption of innocence also spills over into future games. Ignoring this sort of absenteeism sends a clear signal to future baddies that they can win by simply not playing. I think thta is bad for mafia as a whole, not just for this game.

I agree. I am guessing he is just reading hosts posts and voting. We'll see if he finally starts talking after all of this talk of him. I'd guess if he's bad, his teammates are PMing him and telling him he ought to come in and say something.

boo wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

boo wrote: My problem with the presumption of innocence is that if he's a baddie, generally keeping him out play could be a ploy to still have him around later in the game where his vote could matter, so leaving him in play could bite us in the ass down the line. Voting for him could help force him out and start talking, at which point he would at least be contributing, which could help give a read either way.

My problem with the presumption of innocence also spills over into future games. Ignoring this sort of absenteeism sends a clear signal to future baddies that they can win by simply not playing. I think thta is bad for mafia as a whole, not just for this game.

Well, I don't disagree, but it isn't exactly new behavior, and it is quite prevalent with some players. Maybe that's just the sort he'll be, but since we have no way of knowing right now, I don't think letting it slide is a good idea. And if it were the type of player he was going to become, and this made him change his mind in the future, even better as far as I'm concerned. Near complete non-participation doesn't make the game fun, so I see no reason to put up with it from him, or anyone else, and at this point in the game, I think he should realize people want him to show up. Since that hasn't happened, if he's a civ, I'm assuming he isn't reading, so maybe taking some votes will force him to re-evaluate and actually read and learn.

So yes, I more or less agree with you.

Now, people, vote for BWT so we can lynch llama. SKs and unknowns are bad for business.

I'm willing to switch to BWT because he seems pretty OK, but most of all, I think I'm starting to trust you more and more.
Sorry llama. It's not that I think you're a baddie, but maybe Boo does have a point with all the independent role stuff.
And with that, I'm off

TBH, if I had thought people would have followed me, I considered voting for boo. His style can make people unfamiliar with him think he is bad, but i have not seen anything to make me think he is NOT a civ. I can't recall the game, everyone was like, "OMG, boo is so bad!" And I kept saying, no he isn't but they lynched him anyhow, and lo and behold, he was not bad.

That said though, I could be a zillion percent wrong boo is tricksy that way

@Elo and SVS: My feelings on both of you are a combination of gut and the way/reasons you gave for voting for me tonight. It could just be I'm overly paranoid about it, but them's the breaks I guess.

And I know someone asked me why I wasn't as suspicious of the votes from boo and MP (I guess we can throw FZ and Dom into the mix now too). It varies from person to person. I felt like boo was slightly blendy, but at least tried to give a better explanation for why he voted me. I think MP and FZ are the two that I feel most comfortable about. Dom would probably get lumped in with Elo and SVS because the only time he's mentioned voting for me at all was when he....well, mentioned he was voting for me.

All I can say is I hope whatever it is I get is worthwhile lol.

So anyone read any good books lately?


Teef, i don't know what to tell you. I am sorry and a bit confuzzled if you think the rather clumsy way Eloh & I decided you were trustworthy pinged you. It is what it is.

S~V~S wrote:So anyone read any good books lately?
.

I loved both Night Film and Where'd You Go, Bernadette?

S~V~S wrote:So anyone read any good books lately?


Teef, i don't know what to tell you. I am sorry and a bit confuzzled if you think the rather clumsy way Eloh & I decided you were trustworthy pinged you. It is what it is.

Yeah, I am sorry too. I am shocked by your reaction to me thinking you are civ.

Elohcin wrote:

S~V~S wrote:So anyone read any good books lately?


Teef, i don't know what to tell you. I am sorry and a bit confuzzled if you think the rather clumsy way Eloh & I decided you were trustworthy pinged you. It is what it is.

Yeah, I am sorry too. I am shocked by your reaction to me thinking you are civ.

I'm about to finish Freakonomics. But otherwise not really. I've been a bit too busy lately to do as much reading as I'd like.

Sorry! I'm just trying to take it with an open mind and hopefully it will just turn out to be a difference of opinion.

S~V~S wrote:So anyone read any good books lately?

SVS, do you use GoodReads? This is mine: https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/8210498-alison As an added bonus, you can see how much/little I look like Lucille Ball!

Llama, what do you think of Birdy?

Mongoose wrote: Llama, what do you think of Birdy?

I reckon he's okay. His reaction to people voting for him seemed genuine to me.

UNLIKE YOU, BADGOOSE!

thellama73 wrote:

Mongoose wrote: Llama, what do you think of Birdy?

I reckon he's okay. His reaction to people voting for him seemed genuine to me.

UNLIKE YOU, BADGOOSE!

Oh okay. So, pardon me if you've said, what do you think about me?

Who should get out on parole?

Poll ended at Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:16 pm

A Person
0
No votes

birdwithteeth11
7
Elohcin (3), birdwithteeth11 (4), S~V~S (6), boo (12), MovingPictures07 (13), Dom (16), FZ. (17)
41%

boo
0
No votes

Bullzeye
0
No votes

Dom
0
No votes

Elohcin
0
No votes

FZ.
0
No votes

johns2jj
1
johns2jj (8)
6%

Lizzy
0
No votes

Mongoose
0
No votes

MovingPictures07
0
No votes

MrThomas
1
MrThomas (7)
6%

Nevinera
0
No votes

reywaS
0
No votes

Russtifikno
1
Lizzy (14)
6%

S~V~S
0
No votes

thellama73
4
Nevinera (2), Mongoose (5), Bullzeye (10), thellama73 (15)
24%

Vompatti
1
A Person (11)
6%

Axel (The Host, the Mod, the Dead)
2
Epignosis (1), Mister Rearranger (9)
12%


Total votes : 17

Accidents happen. That’s what people say. Someone tries not to feel as guilty over some negligence. Or someone just tries to make somebody else feel better about something bad that happened. But sometimes things just look like accidents.

They found Nevinera contorted and drowned in one of the industrial washing machines.

“He fell in,” someone explained, passing along the rumor that someone else had passed onto him. “The light went out. He got a ladder to replace the bulb, lost his balance in the dark and fell clean on in. Accidents happen.”

“Clean on in.” Huh. That’s a hell of a thing to say.

RIP Nev.

Voted Mongoose.

RIP Nev. I am going to put my vote on Thomas for now.

For reasons talked about earlier of course. We'll see if he shows up to defend himself.

Elohcin wrote:For reasons talked about earlier of course. We'll see if he shows up to defend himself.

Ditto. I hope he will come back and play. Otherwise, I think it's good to get the message out there that this isn't a good tactic to use to win mafia (for baddies but civs as well).

boo wrote:voting llama

Why?

Elohcin wrote:

boo wrote:voting llama

Why?

Indeed why. You aren't buying into that SK hogwash are you?

Also voting llama, I was not a fan of the push to imply he was confirmed. Now THAT would be one hell of a gambit :lol:

Who do you think we should lynch then, Mongoose? And i hope it isn't low posters.

HA HA HA, I see it IS low posters

Well, I'm nothing if not predictable :/

I honestly can't believe people are jumping out and voting for me today, of all the other suspicious people out there. It's odd considering that just hours ago people were saying how civ they thought I was. I am surprised and disappointed with you, SVS, and I just don't trust boo at all. I urge the other players not to let this turn into a bandwagon on me.

I never said that. Not once. I am not sure, tbh, what i think. but i really hated the way people were trying to imply you were confirmed when that is not the case.

i can change my vote, and i might. But at this juncture i trust boo and his instincts more than i trust you.

ebwop~ all those other people, the ones who thought you were so civ, I am sure they won't vote for you. So cheer up and stop being so melodramatic

S~V~S wrote:So cheer up and stop being so melodramatic

I'd sooner set myself on fire and plunge into the sea from a hot air balloon.

You are a man of principles

thellama73 wrote:I honestly can't believe people are jumping out and voting for me today, of all the other suspicious people out there. It's odd considering that just hours ago people were saying how civ they thought I was. I am surprised and disappointed with you, SVS, and I just don't trust boo at all. I urge the other players not to let this turn into a bandwagon on me.

Other suspicious people. Hmm I'm voting you.

Well I was surely not voting for llama, so I'm glad I voted how I did. It's almost tied up.

thellama73 wrote:I honestly can't believe people are jumping out and voting for me today, of all the other suspicious people out there. It's odd considering that just hours ago people were saying how civ they thought I was. I am surprised and disappointed with you, SVS, and I just don't trust boo at all. I urge the other players not to let this turn into a bandwagon on me.

A compelling defense if ever I have seen one! Because some people said they thought you were civ, people who had already at that time made it clear they didn't agree are voting for you, who could have seen that coming? And you don't trust me, which is the extent of the case building you have done on everyone you've been suspicious of, that's a great way to convince people to your side AND give the people you suspect something to actually argue with you about.

See, I'm trying your casual and kind of melodramatic snark, that manages to not be offensive (hopefully I hit that point), to win over people who somehow see you as being civvie to seeing you how I do, because I guess that's what they respond to. But I really can't manage it without sarcasm, so I guess we can call that the Boo Being Llama Whilst Blending it With Sarcasm Gambit. Or something.

boo wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I honestly can't believe people are jumping out and voting for me today, of all the other suspicious people out there. It's odd considering that just hours ago people were saying how civ they thought I was. I am surprised and disappointed with you, SVS, and I just don't trust boo at all. I urge the other players not to let this turn into a bandwagon on me.

A compelling defense if ever I have seen one! Because some people said they thought you were civ, people who had already at that time made it clear they didn't agree are voting for you, who could have seen that coming? And you don't trust me, which is the extent of the case building you have done on everyone you've been suspicious of, that's a great way to convince people to your side AND give the people you suspect something to actually argue with you about.

See, I'm trying your casual and kind of melodramatic snark, that manages to not be offensive (hopefully I hit that point), to win over people who somehow see you as being civvie to seeing you how I do, because I guess that's what they respond to. But I really can't manage it without sarcasm, so I guess we can call that the Boo Being Llama Whilst Blending it With Sarcasm Gambit. Or something.

I think this is my favorite post I have ever seen in all of Mafia. He really nailed your schtick, Lo!

^ That was unintentionally homoerotic sounding.

Mongoose wrote:^ That was unintentionally homoerotic sounding.

How freudipenis.

I'm just frustrated because I think I have been more obviously civ this game than in any other game I've played, so obviously so that the baddies tried to kill me on the first night. Now three people jump right out of the gate and vote for me, having made no case so far as I can see to defend against. I honestly don't know what it takes to not get lynched early around here. Maybe next game I'll just be like Thomas and not say anything. It seems to work, and it's ever so much fun for all involved.

thellama73 wrote:I'm just frustrated because I think I have been more obviously civ this game than in any other game I've played, so obviously so that the baddies tried to kill me on the first night. Now three people jump right out of the gate and vote for me, having made no case so far as I can see to defend against. I honestly don't know what it takes to not get lynched early around here. Maybe next game I'll just be like Thomas and not say anything. It seems to work, and it's ever so much fun for all involved.

I know one person who could tie this sucker up.

thellama73 wrote:I'm just frustrated because I think I have been more obviously civ this game than in any other game I've played, so obviously so that the baddies tried to kill me on the first night. Now three people jump right out of the gate and vote for me, having made no case so far as I can see to defend against. I honestly don't know what it takes to not get lynched early around here. Maybe next game I'll just be like Thomas and not say anything. It seems to work, and it's ever so much fun for all involved.

I very clearly stated why I voted for you during the night, and that as long as you were on the poll I would be voting for you.

You haven't been obviously civ. You have thrown out my name, MR, mongoose, and nev.

Conversely you've said you think you can trust MP, BWT, and john,

That's from skimming only the first one and a half of the 3 pages of posts you have this game. You never provided any real reason for why you suspect or trust any of those people.

The closest you've come to giving a practical reason for why you'd vote someone is Mr Thomas not participating, something I think everyone in the game can agree on, so literally the safest push for a lynch you could make.

You'll have to excuse me if I find it extremely funny if you can say you're upset that 3 people voted for you when there's no case for you to defend yourself against (there is), after you've specifically stated 7 names of people you suspect or trust, and have offered no reason that could be argued in any of those 7 cases.

boo wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

boo wrote:
Lets all look at how right you were about MR, even though you refused to vote for him. I could make a similar claim about you based off of that same essentially non-reason.

I suspected both you and MR at the time, but I thought you looked worse than him which is why I voted for you on Day 1. His civvieness does not acquit you, as I think it would have been a very bad idea for both of you to try the same strategy if you were both bad. I never thought both of you were bad, just one. I thought it was you then and I think it's you now.

But don't worry, I'm still voting for Mongoose tomorrow.

Oh, I'm not worried.

I see multiple possibilities for your NK tonight because of things you've done, and the non-favour people have done you by voting for you in this poll. You've been painted as civvie looking by 4 people now, and if the sisters reached (or agree with) my reasoning for why you're likely the DA or SK, neither of which is a role I imagine they'd want to keep around, then through either avenue, they may decide to target you tonight. Whether that would kill you or not will I suppose depend on how you survived last night.

Even if they choose not to (which is what I'd prefer if you can't survive a second time, so long as it doesn't mean I'm the target), and even if you do get taken off the poll tomorrow, I think by D4 people will be seeing in you what I am, and be ready to lynch you, and I think the results will be good.

Anyways, since you have the lead on this one, I'm moving to BWT, because I want to be able to vote for you tomorrow, at least right now.

And to be specific, this is the post I'm referring to when I say you have something to defend against.

Points you could argue:
1) I think you've tried to beat over peoples heads how civvie you seem, using the survived NK as your example. You ignore that there's a second baddie team, and the other 2 roles. You ignore there's no stated way a civvie could survive a NK, and therefore it's easier to see scenarios in which that means you are not a civvie.
2) In the post of mine that you quoted, I brought up how you have not provided real reasons for any of your suspicions or reasons you trust the people you trust. Put some effort into countering it. I'd like to see you quote yourself where you have given us any reason to agree with you.
3) You didn't so much as bother replying to this post at all. We can't have a discussion on why I suspect you if you refuse to participate, and trying to shut down discussion of suspicion on yourself is a baddie tactic through-and-through as far I'm concerned. Not responding to that suspicion is the easiest way to shut down that suspicion, especially when I had mentioned the D4 bit which may have made you think I'd leave it until then, compounded by the fact that you and I had agreed about Mr Thomas.

Just some starting points.

Hi guys! I better vote now, since I'll be out for a day pf tourism here. Going with Mr Thomas for now. It's Day 3, and by that point people should be doing things. I also just don't know where to fall on boo/llama yet. My brain says boo is making strong points, but ky gut os reading llama as sincere, which is unusual.