Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

wait wait wait wait wait, is there a reason we're not looking at Tangle???

No reason at all. What do you think of Tangle?

I mean she lead the counter wagon against me when owner almost took off. I'm not very well read thread wise, but like that's never townie, right?

Maybe not. Would you call Tangrowth one of your bigger suspects? How do you think she looks in general?

[Sloonei]

@Made what are your thoughts on me, right here and right now on day 4 of this game?

[Made]

wait wait wait wait wait, is there a reason we're not looking at Tangle???

Belzy desperado shot them and they died.

and that's a good look for her? doesn't that just mean Tangly has some sort of protections?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@nutella there's a very good chance your dead. Legacy?

made sloonei lm are scum reads

if the rule of 3 is a thing, made is mafia.

In this case I temper this even if I accept the principle of rule of 3 (meh) just because of context. Those three people are nutella's longest Day 1 push (lost monkey), her EOD scream target (you), and the person she voted for (Made). Default.

[MacDougall]

I think LoMo is seriously townie.

I view lost monkey and Martin as similar cases of "seems generally town to me, but a mechanical argument of some kind can be made against them so maybe".

LoMo claimed watcher before anyone else did, and his results are corroborated by Allcrab.

It'd be more of a "two people have similar claims and even if they're true one could be mafia" thing. I think it's technically possible that Allcrab, a town watcher, corroborated the true results of a mafia lost monkey. I wouldn't call it the most likely thing.

@JaggedJimmyJay @MacDougall is nutella a hellbusser?

no

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That said Made is definitely the least town of those three players, and nutella pooping on him would align with him blank-voting her for distance (the vote that caused him to get wagoned in the first place).

[MacDougall]

I think LoMo is seriously townie.

I view lost monkey and Martin as similar cases of "seems generally town to me, but a mechanical argument of some kind can be made against them so maybe".

LoMo claimed watcher before anyone else did, and his results are corroborated by Allcrab.

It'd be more of a "two people have similar claims and even if they're true one could be mafia" thing. I think it's technically possible that Allcrab, a town watcher, corroborated the true results of a mafia lost monkey. I wouldn't call it the most likely thing.

@JaggedJimmyJay @MacDougall is nutella a hellbusser?

I wouldn't reduce nutella to any single descriptor like that, but I do think she is capable of significant bussing. I think the more likely bussing/distancing from her on Day 1 would be in Act's direction though.

when i hydra'd with nutella in modern family we made a plan to bus TAT (the janitor), but when i went to play video games she CFDed elsewhere at EOD due to getting cold feet about the bus and wanting a townie to die

this

[MacDougall]

I suspected Alison Day 1 and then she was poisoned and I tossed my suspicion out the window, but now I am beginning to feel like the poisoner is a third party role.

Alison is townier than you, Guillo, Jay and Nanook.

[MacDougall]

I think the mafia killed someone else and she got in the way.

This was my assumption when I saw Dana's flip as well. It is not a guarantee and I don't mean to treat it as such, but I don't think any of us went into Night 3 thinking that Dana was going the nightkilled. I don't say that as anything resembling a slight against her. As you just said, there are players with more mechanical backing and thread credibility alike than her.

did you read seanzie's argument?

[MacDougall]

Act, Gnome, Made, and OC seem to form my premier suspect tier. Allcrab, bad bunny, lost monkey, and MartinGG99 would have to round out whoever's missing. This doesn't take any third party into consideration.

Are at least three mafia not contained above? I ask whoever cares to ponder.

The reason I ask this question is this:

Allcrab, lost monkey, and Martin all look town to me at face value. If I give Allcrab the nod, then I am generally inclined to do the same bad bunny given Allcrab's view.

If all of the above is correct, I need three mafia within [Act, Gnome, Made, and OC] or something has to be incorrect. It could be that three mafia are in that set if we're very fortuitous. These reads aren't without controversy though, especially if your name is Nanook.

If I remember correctly I came out of day 1 thinking Gnome was partnered with Nutella but the other 3 were not.

[MacDougall]

Act, Gnome, Made, and OC seem to form my premier suspect tier. Allcrab, bad bunny, lost monkey, and MartinGG99 would have to round out whoever's missing. This doesn't take any third party into consideration.

Are at least three mafia not contained above? I ask whoever cares to ponder.

The reason I ask this question is this:

Allcrab, lost monkey, and Martin all look town to me at face value. If I give Allcrab the nod, then I am generally inclined to do the same bad bunny given Allcrab's view.

If all of the above is correct, I need three mafia within [Act, Gnome, Made, and OC] or something has to be incorrect. It could be that three mafia are in that set if we're very fortuitous. These reads aren't without controversy though, especially if your name is Nanook.

What's the best reason to town read Alison?

She has good reads that make sense. She's promoting a healthy thread state.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I remember correctly I came out of day 1 thinking Gnome was partnered with Nutella but the other 3 were not.

Do you remember how you felt about them on Day 4?

[Sloonei]

If we accept the possibility that town was perfect on Day 1 and had three mafia wagons going, there is absolutely nothing in any of made/nutella/owner's posts that excludes Made from being on that team.

[Sloonei]

I think the mafia killed someone else and she got in the way.

This was my assumption when I saw Dana's flip as well. It is not a guarantee and I don't mean to treat it as such, but I don't think any of us went into Night 3 thinking that Dana was going the nightkilled. I don't say that as anything resembling a slight against her. As you just said, there are players with more mechanical backing and thread credibility alike than her.

did you read seanzie's argument?

I don't know what this refers to, so I'm gonna go with no.

[MacDougall]

Walk me through why guillo or mac can't be a wolf cuz that's where I would look for a deep wolf personally.

excuse me Fable but yes

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Act has made 13 posts in the first 11 hours of Day 4 with no more Dana alive to tunnel,

3 are snap votes.

9 are questions.

Mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think the mafia killed someone else and she got in the way.

This was my assumption when I saw Dana's flip as well. It is not a guarantee and I don't mean to treat it as such, but I don't think any of us went into Night 3 thinking that Dana was going the nightkilled. I don't say that as anything resembling a slight against her. As you just said, there are players with more mechanical backing and thread credibility alike than her.

did you read seanzie's argument?

I don't know what this refers to, so I'm gonna go with no.

Seanzie suggested Dana was most likely the literal mafia night kill target for having softed a protective role at the end of Day 3. I don't agree, but I'll let you judge.

[MacDougall]

This post has been popping back up in my mind whenever I think of Mac. It feels like there is implicit argument here that he must be town because nutella treated him in a way that would be outside of her range.

I don't entirely follow. Do you mean this is to Mac's credit or something to think about in the other direction?

He was actively disagreeing with my nutella associative reads, and in that conversation he argued that nutella, as mafia, has trouble disguising her true intentions when she is casting suspicion on civilians.
Part of me is worried that this is Mafia Mac painting a certain image of nutella to bolster the credit he can receive from his own interactions with nutella.

this read actually makes me angry

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Act has made 13 posts in the first 11 hours of Day 4 with no more Dana alive to tunnel,

3 are snap votes.

9 are questions.

Mafia.

The exception to this count is a soft dig into an orangecrush post.

Choo choo.

[Sloonei]

I think the mafia killed someone else and she got in the way.

This was my assumption when I saw Dana's flip as well. It is not a guarantee and I don't mean to treat it as such, but I don't think any of us went into Night 3 thinking that Dana was going the nightkilled. I don't say that as anything resembling a slight against her. As you just said, there are players with more mechanical backing and thread credibility alike than her.

did you read seanzie's argument?

I don't know what this refers to, so I'm gonna go with no.

Seanzie suggested Dana was most likely the literal mafia night kill target for having softed a protective role at the end of Day 3. I don't agree, but I'll let you judge.

Oh. I saw that. I don't agree.

[MacDougall]

wait wait wait wait wait, is there a reason we're not looking at Tangle???

Belzy desperado shot them and they died.

and that's a good look for her? doesn't that just mean Tangly has some sort of protections?

are you trying to get derp cleared?

[Sloonei]

This post has been popping back up in my mind whenever I think of Mac. It feels like there is implicit argument here that he must be town because nutella treated him in a way that would be outside of her range.

I don't entirely follow. Do you mean this is to Mac's credit or something to think about in the other direction?

He was actively disagreeing with my nutella associative reads, and in that conversation he argued that nutella, as mafia, has trouble disguising her true intentions when she is casting suspicion on civilians.
Part of me is worried that this is Mafia Mac painting a certain image of nutella to bolster the credit he can receive from his own interactions with nutella.

this read actually makes me angry

I liked it less once I vocalized it, if that helps.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This post has been popping back up in my mind whenever I think of Mac. It feels like there is implicit argument here that he must be town because nutella treated him in a way that would be outside of her range.

I don't entirely follow. Do you mean this is to Mac's credit or something to think about in the other direction?

He was actively disagreeing with my nutella associative reads, and in that conversation he argued that nutella, as mafia, has trouble disguising her true intentions when she is casting suspicion on civilians.
Part of me is worried that this is Mafia Mac painting a certain image of nutella to bolster the credit he can receive from his own interactions with nutella.

this read actually makes me angry

That doesn't make it invalid.

[Sloonei]

There's a few mid-Day 1 interactions in act's ISO that center around nutella and Owner concurrently. I suppose they merit conversation if we are wondering whether or not to rule act out as a teammate of theirs.

Spoiler: show

I've been calling things I agree with spicy for literal years now what is wrong with you people

Is anyone other than Owner suspecting you for the word “spicy?”

#1. nutella gripes about objections to her use of the word "spicy." Act observes that Owner seems to be the only person taking issue with "spicy", and prods nutella about this. My kneejerk reaction was that this is a fairly pointed question for one teammate to throw at another. There isn't really a positive way for nutella to spin this, and it also calls added attention onto another teammate (Owner) in the process. Seems like an odd and risky thing to do if act is mafia here.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

I wanna kill nutella

why

she keeps pinging me, that spicy comment in particular was weird

Owner does that. She picks up on the smallest, seemingly strangest reasons to read people. With that said, it doesn’t usually seem this prominent...meaning, I feel like she’s laying it on thick right now. It feels manufactured in a “I know people know me for this type of game play so I should be doing that!”

For example: in the past, Owner used the word “interesting” as a scum tell for people. In another game, she used an avatar change as a scum tell. Now, I’m seeing her pick up on an odd word AND call out an avatar nearly back to back.

Realized you were talking about Nutella and not Owner here lol.

#2. The most awkward for sure, Act responds to a read on nutella with a defense of Owner, thinking that she is the player being suspected. Promptly realizes her mistake and sheepishly ("lol") acknowledges it.
On the one hand we can twist ourselves into a big warm pretzel trying to workout the minefield of associatives here in which Mafia Act was too eager to defend Mafia Owner that she didn't even realize the player being accused was Mafia nutella. The gang's all here and it looks goofy.
On the other hand, that feels like too silly of a mistake to make if all three of them are partners. nutella is probably the one in more danger at this point, and the defense of Owner does not seem at all unreasonable given Act's apparent familiarity with her meta.
And on some level, this read suggests to me that Act is Actively in thought with regards to Owner. She has just asked nutella to elaborate on Owner's objection to the word "spicy." So Act associating Owner's name with "the spicy comment" is both natural and reasonable.

Spoiler: show

Like it's not banter she's pretending stuff is alignment indicative that is very not and it's jarring

What do you mean it's not alignment indicative? The coffee tell on Dizzy was a pattern. Something very small could easily be another pattern. Do you not analyze patterns? A lot of stuff can be alignment indicative. It depends the players and certain variables, but they can be there.

I agree that small things can be part of a bigger pattern; however, until you start seeing that pattern with confirmed results, how can you call it alignment indicative? Have you seen Nutella play mafia games in which “spicy” was a word she only used as scum?

#3. Act raises a small objection to Owner's suspicion of nutella, prodding her to develop the read further. Taking this post in conjunction with the previous two, I come away with an impression that Act is trying to discover a town read on Owner while also feeling out a new-to-her (I think?) player in nutella. Post #1 is purely interrogative. Post #2 is a favorable assessment of Owner based on meta. Post #3 is a piece of constructive criticism for Owner's nutella read. Act treats the two flipped wolves very differently here, and I think there is a visible difference in where she is mentally with regards to each of them as well in this moment.

But I am open to an alternative version of events where Act suddenly found herself extra cognizant of her association with two of her teammates on Day 1 and tangled herself up in their mutual phony suspicion of one another: we already know that nutella and Owner staged their reads of one another. If two wolves are in on the act, why not a third?

[MacDougall]

If I remember correctly I came out of day 1 thinking Gnome was partnered with Nutella but the other 3 were not.

Do you remember how you felt about them on Day 4?

Hardy har har Jay.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I did see that Sloonei, and thanks for doing it. I haven't looked more closely at Act/Owner, but I did think Act/nutella was the worst-looking interaction in the game.

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: made] aubergine

[MacDougall]

This post has been popping back up in my mind whenever I think of Mac. It feels like there is implicit argument here that he must be town because nutella treated him in a way that would be outside of her range.

I don't entirely follow. Do you mean this is to Mac's credit or something to think about in the other direction?

He was actively disagreeing with my nutella associative reads, and in that conversation he argued that nutella, as mafia, has trouble disguising her true intentions when she is casting suspicion on civilians.
Part of me is worried that this is Mafia Mac painting a certain image of nutella to bolster the credit he can receive from his own interactions with nutella.

this read actually makes me angry

I liked it less once I vocalized it, if that helps.

yes it's like the one part of the game where I wasn't phoning it in and you're finding issue with it...

[MacDougall]

Aside from tinfoil I have no issue with the path this game is on. I don't particularly feel the need to humour any tinfoil. If I were to have a bullet I could only use to make a spicy shot it would be guillo.

[Made]

@Made what are your thoughts on me, right here and right now on day 4 of this game?

Kinda nullish, as in nothing really pinged me and I'm just noticing that, and I don't like. fwiw I've only really been reading what I've been around for real time, which hasn't been much with you. but I feel like I've read enough post from you where, if you were Jay for example, I'd know how I feel about your slot but reading you this game has felt like I was reading an instruction booklet.

That said, where is your head on Jay's 4 hit 3?

[Seanzie]

So I just found something interesting... D2, Allcrab votes Owner, citing that it is unlikely that Owner did what they said they did. At this point, all Owner had claimed was that she was a fruit vendor who gave a fruit to someone.

Hi so it's extremely unlikely owner did what they said they did so that's neat.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

After Owner comes back to the thread and tells everyone she targeted JJJ and Gavial, we get an explanation from Allcrab.

Oh just read Alison wants to do some dumb shit to me overnight w/e then I'll just say it though y'all dumb enough to probably be like "no way that true OMGBBQWTF he lying so hard" but yeah I'm the same role as Lomo I can verify his information is correct because I had the same target I was rolling around what this means for Lomo and how likely it is we really have two villagers with the same role he's definitely not lying because we got the same results and if we assuming JJJ was the kill target last night why tf would wolves watch the kill target seems like a waste so I'm like 95% on Lomo being a villager, lolme if I'm wrong tho.

This why Owner is very unlikely to do what they said they did btw.

The issue? Well, Owner didn't claim to target JJJ back when it was "extremely unlikely Owner did what they said they did". I asked her if she did, but she didn't answer.

Allcrab dripping with TMI.

[Sloonei]

That said, where is your head on Jay's 4 hit 3?

I have no idea what this means.

[MacDougall]

Lowkey I think Seanzie is better than me at mafia.

[Sloonei]

Should we fill Made in on the details he's missing now?

[MacDougall]

That said, where is your head on Jay's 4 hit 3?

I have no idea what this means.

the scarecrow walks at midnight Jay

[Made]

That said, where is your head on Jay's 4 hit 3?

I have no idea what this means.

Jay's PoE

[MacDougall]

Should we fill Made in on the details he's missing now?

thats precisely what he wants you to do

[Made]

Should we fill Made in on the details he's missing now?

I would very much enjoy that

[MacDougall]

Let's do a fun exercise.

If you were mafia and you were in the POE along with your entire team. What would you do?

If you were mafia and outside the POE but your team were in the POE. what would you do?

etc.

[MacDougall]

Should we fill Made in on the details he's missing now?

I would very much enjoy that

don't do it sloo it's a trap

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Allcrab dripping with TMI.

I may have a thought here, but I want Allcrab to respond first.

[MacDougall]

wait wait wait wait wait, is there a reason we're not looking at Tangle???

this is nearly signature worthy if you're mafia

[MacDougall]

Walk me through why guillo or mac can't be a wolf cuz that's where I would look for a deep wolf personally.

When it comes to a face value soul read, Guillotine looks more town to me than anyone alive.

Off-hand I do think there's more potential for Mac bussing than for Alison bussing just given the way nutella responded to his suspicion on Day 1. It was bizarre and carefree. I also think Mac is the type to lock me in a room with Gavial overnight. So I would at least consider it. The best case for Mac being town is that Day 1 progression wherein I think he probably did more than anyone else to kill nutella.

Have you seen Guillo wolf before? (not including spoiled spectating)

I have wolfed with Guillo quite a lot tbh so feel free to ask me about things.

[Seanzie]

Allcrab REALLY wants me to give him townpoints for his Owner vote D1. Here is what I can find in his ISO about owner:

Okay nutella's ISO is pretty fluffy for how big it is but it's not so bad as to warrant them being a runaway wagon like this so that's pinging me after I do Owner I need to see what everyone's reasons are for voting there.

Owner can definitely be a wolf they're not going after anyone the way they usually do as village and they feel less paranoid than usual.

These posts look fine, nothing I would clear someone over, but sure, Allcrab expressed suspicion on Owner.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

Unless I read through someone and feel stronger about it.

Super duper weak vote though. Literally, Allcrab was primed to move away from Owner if the opportunity presented itself. Townpoints? meh.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If you were mafia and you were in the POE along with your entire team. What would you do?

I don't typically engage in this kind of speculation since everything depends on context, but why not.

I probably pick one to spam distance/bus and try to protect the rest. Gotta attain something resembling credit before the more power-oriented mafia play can be effective.

If you were mafia and outside the POE but your team were in the POE. what would you do?

Lead an assembly line of chops on every name in the POE that isn't my teammate.

[Sloonei]

So I just found something interesting... D2, Allcrab votes Owner, citing that it is unlikely that Owner did what they said they did. At this point, all Owner had claimed was that she was a fruit vendor who gave a fruit to someone.

Hi so it's extremely unlikely owner did what they said they did so that's neat.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

After Owner comes back to the thread and tells everyone she targeted JJJ and Gavial, we get an explanation from Allcrab.

Oh just read Alison wants to do some dumb shit to me overnight w/e then I'll just say it though y'all dumb enough to probably be like "no way that true OMGBBQWTF he lying so hard" but yeah I'm the same role as Lomo I can verify his information is correct because I had the same target I was rolling around what this means for Lomo and how likely it is we really have two villagers with the same role he's definitely not lying because we got the same results and if we assuming JJJ was the kill target last night why tf would wolves watch the kill target seems like a waste so I'm like 95% on Lomo being a villager, lolme if I'm wrong tho.

This why Owner is very unlikely to do what they said they did btw.

The issue? Well, Owner didn't claim to target JJJ back when it was "extremely unlikely Owner did what they said they did". I asked her if she did, but she didn't answer.

Allcrab dripping with TMI.

[Seanzie]

Lowkey I think Seanzie is better than me at mafia.

Lowkey I think there is a chance this is openwolfing and Mac is like "wtf? How has Seanzie figured all these damned weird things out? Gotta try to pocket that sum'mabitch".

[Made]

Should we fill Made in on the details he's missing now?

I would very much enjoy that

don't do it sloo it's a trap

Hi! am I missing something big right now? and If so, how stupid do I look?

[Sloonei]

Should we fill Made in on the details he's missing now?

I would very much enjoy that

My dad says I shouldn't.

[MacDougall]

Let's do a fun exercise.

If you were mafia and you were in the POE along with your entire team. What would you do?

If you were mafia and outside the POE but your team were in the POE. what would you do?

etc.

If I was mafia and I was in the POE and my team was fucked I would probably play mini games like "try to get a towncore chopped with a red check" or maybe I'd bus the fuck out of someone in my team to try to get out of the POE. I think others would be prone to concession though. I'm not really seeing concession anywhere. Who in the POE looks conceded?

If I was mafia in the POE with deepwolf partner/s I would run distraction for them. I would openwolf, introduce tinfoil, fake red checks and encourage them to bury me for cred.

If I was deep with deep wolves I would start to consider bullying and block voting at this point. I would hyperpost and drown out the town that are in the towncore with my own world views.

If I was deep with POE partners I would probably be trying to save them at this point and opening up the POE. I am not someone that can get to f3 from here because I will lose to mech or poison so I would be casing townies hard and talking town off suspecting my teammates.