The Syndicate

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:33 pm Why I see Jay as town:

I am not finished refreshing myself on Jay's posts but I am going to stop where I am (Night 2) and list some summary reasons why I am seeing Jay as town. I am sure I will have more as I continue on but this at least gets it started.

* Jay comes out of the shoot poking and prodding at everyone, giving opinions about their answers. He gives opinions of people outside his reads lists. He is constantly asking questions of everyone. This is a hallmark of the civ style I have seen from Jay. Imo all of these behaviors point to him hunting baddies and sharing opinions to try and start bringing together the town. He gives a reads list as early as Day 0 where he gives pluses and minuses. sig, Radish and Mac are all minuses. You only need to read a couple of pages of his ISO to see these behaviors if you want to.

* This is similar but a bit different from the first point. He not only doesn't avoid discussion about people he inserts himself in discussion or starts the discussion. He is involved in everything. And the points he makes seem to me to be thorough and I can't get inside his head but they appear thought through.

* When people town read him or say they trust him he asks for them to explain these reads. IMO he is trying to make sure people are not just throwing cheap reads out or trying to buddy him. There are others that do this, Dom and Epi to name two, and I see it as a civ behavior if done often.

* On Night 1/Day 2 he makes comments about Mac all of which are unfavorable. My point here is not that there is an in depth argument for Mac being bad but that the frequency of posts where he says unfavorable things about Mac is more than someone would do who was trying to distance. I might not have a complete list because I didn't notice the frequency at first but here is what I noted and remember this is just through Day 2:

Spoiler: show

Calls Mac weak for hanging from Jack's balls

Says Mac and his big D are aligned with mafia

Asks Jack: What do you hate most about Mac and his big D?

Says sig shitting all over Mac when he was one posted was Ace.

Says I could Lynch Mac for the crime of being irrelevant

Expands on irrelevant: only one thing he's done, parrot Jack so he had no personal accountability for nutella flip. Left in in Jack's lap.

Says "You're gonna die" when Mac asks someone to give him cliffs

Replies "This sucks" to Mac's post about Dom tunneling him

When ted defends Mac Jay challenges ted

Says he is uninspired by Mac's N1 and asks "why is Mac civilian"

TH asks "why would Mac do x,y,z as scum?" and Jay says "you have just described mafiaosco Mac"

Makes post 2652 on why Mac's reversal on nutella is not a reason to call him civ (sorry I don't know how to link it)

I say Mac is not behaving as he did in Inception where he was bad. Jay says Mac is not binary

Tells Dizzy Mac is not one of those players he would read as civ for saying he would be sad to be lynched (Dizzy asked)

Says to G-Man: ""You seem to be honoring Mac's call for help. This does not make me feel good."

* He does interactive analysis of everyone with Radish and everyone with Mac (I looked ahead to remember if he had done Mac). This is a time intensive endeavor and Jay has told us he is short of time. I don't think a scum Jay would spend this much time trying to help town.

I know you all mostly do not agree with me but this is how I see it through Day 2. I would really like to see what the case against Jay is. I know Epi thinks he sounded phony. It would be nice if someone else who thinks he is bad would explain their thoughts.

I will post more summary thoughts as I go through the rest of his posts. I may be going to bed now but I will answer any questions in the morning.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:35 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:30 pm Oh wait yeah the AM killed last night. He’s only at +1 vote, possibly tied with someone else due to award presenter and very likely behind Agatha.

I say we have two public votes and all privately vote for the most consensus target to override mafia secret vote.

huh?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:46 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:35 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:30 pm Oh wait yeah the AM killed last night. He’s only at +1 vote, possibly tied with someone else due to award presenter and very likely behind Agatha.

I say we have two public votes and all privately vote for the most consensus target to override mafia secret vote.

huh?

Antimonitor has -2 votes against him by default. Antimonitor killed last night, giving him +3 votes due to Nanook2's death. This is a net +1 vote.

Award presenter can give +1 or -1 votes against a player.

Agatha gains votes for using actions and can remove them by taking no action.

So the Antimonitor has 1 vote to start, Agatha probably has at least 1 vote to start and another player may have 1 vote to start as well.

So basically, the bodyguard could have given us a free lynch but it didn't. Might help the case of a tie though.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:38 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:33 pm Why I see Jay as town:

I am not finished refreshing myself on Jay's posts but I am going to stop where I am (Night 2) and list some summary reasons why I am seeing Jay as town. I am sure I will have more as I continue on but this at least gets it started.

* Jay comes out of the shoot poking and prodding at everyone, giving opinions about their answers. He gives opinions of people outside his reads lists. He is constantly asking questions of everyone. This is a hallmark of the civ style I have seen from Jay. Imo all of these behaviors point to him hunting baddies and sharing opinions to try and start bringing together the town. He gives a reads list as early as Day 0 where he gives pluses and minuses. sig, Radish and Mac are all minuses. You only need to read a couple of pages of his ISO to see these behaviors if you want to.

* This is similar but a bit different from the first point. He not only doesn't avoid discussion about people he inserts himself in discussion or starts the discussion. He is involved in everything. And the points he makes seem to me to be thorough and I can't get inside his head but they appear thought through.

* When people town read him or say they trust him he asks for them to explain these reads. IMO he is trying to make sure people are not just throwing cheap reads out or trying to buddy him. There are others that do this, Dom and Epi to name two, and I see it as a civ behavior if done often.

* On Night 1/Day 2 he makes comments about Mac all of which are unfavorable. My point here is not that there is an in depth argument for Mac being bad but that the frequency of posts where he says unfavorable things about Mac is more than someone would do who was trying to distance. I might not have a complete list because I didn't notice the frequency at first but here is what I noted and remember this is just through Day 2:

Spoiler: show

Calls Mac weak for hanging from Jack's balls

Says Mac and his big D are aligned with mafia

Asks Jack: What do you hate most about Mac and his big D?

Says sig shitting all over Mac when he was one posted was Ace.

Says I could Lynch Mac for the crime of being irrelevant

Expands on irrelevant: only one thing he's done, parrot Jack so he had no personal accountability for nutella flip. Left in in Jack's lap.

Says "You're gonna die" when Mac asks someone to give him cliffs

Replies "This sucks" to Mac's post about Dom tunneling him

When ted defends Mac Jay challenges ted

Says he is uninspired by Mac's N1 and asks "why is Mac civilian"

TH asks "why would Mac do x,y,z as scum?" and Jay says "you have just described mafiaosco Mac"

Makes post 2652 on why Mac's reversal on nutella is not a reason to call him civ (sorry I don't know how to link it)

I say Mac is not behaving as he did in Inception where he was bad. Jay says Mac is not binary

Tells Dizzy Mac is not one of those players he would read as civ for saying he would be sad to be lynched (Dizzy asked)

Says to G-Man: ""You seem to be honoring Mac's call for help. This does not make me feel good."

* He does interactive analysis of everyone with Radish and everyone with Mac (I looked ahead to remember if he had done Mac). This is a time intensive endeavor and Jay has told us he is short of time. I don't think a scum Jay would spend this much time trying to help town.

I know you all mostly do not agree with me but this is how I see it through Day 2. I would really like to see what the case against Jay is. I know Epi thinks he sounded phony. It would be nice if someone else who thinks he is bad would explain their thoughts.

I will post more summary thoughts as I go through the rest of his posts. I may be going to bed now but I will answer any questions in the morning.

Let me ask you a question: Have you ever argued JJJ was bad before? If you have experienced bad JJJ, what was it like, and how did it compare to this?

That was several questions I know. I'll consider your view juliets. I don't think you are bad anyway.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:47 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:46 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:35 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:30 pm Oh wait yeah the AM killed last night. He’s only at +1 vote, possibly tied with someone else due to award presenter and very likely behind Agatha.

I say we have two public votes and all privately vote for the most consensus target to override mafia secret vote.

huh?

Antimonitor has -2 votes against him by default. Antimonitor killed last night, giving him +3 votes due to Nanook2's death. This is a net +1 vote.

Award presenter can give +1 or -1 votes against a player.

Agatha gains votes for using actions and can remove them by taking no action.

So the Antimonitor has 1 vote to start, Agatha probably has at least 1 vote to start and another player may have 1 vote to start as well.

So basically, the bodyguard could have given us a free lynch but it didn't. Might help the case of a tie though.

What are you proposing Jack?

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:48 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:38 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:33 pm Why I see Jay as town:

I am not finished refreshing myself on Jay's posts but I am going to stop where I am (Night 2) and list some summary reasons why I am seeing Jay as town. I am sure I will have more as I continue on but this at least gets it started.

* Jay comes out of the shoot poking and prodding at everyone, giving opinions about their answers. He gives opinions of people outside his reads lists. He is constantly asking questions of everyone. This is a hallmark of the civ style I have seen from Jay. Imo all of these behaviors point to him hunting baddies and sharing opinions to try and start bringing together the town. He gives a reads list as early as Day 0 where he gives pluses and minuses. sig, Radish and Mac are all minuses. You only need to read a couple of pages of his ISO to see these behaviors if you want to.

* This is similar but a bit different from the first point. He not only doesn't avoid discussion about people he inserts himself in discussion or starts the discussion. He is involved in everything. And the points he makes seem to me to be thorough and I can't get inside his head but they appear thought through.

* When people town read him or say they trust him he asks for them to explain these reads. IMO he is trying to make sure people are not just throwing cheap reads out or trying to buddy him. There are others that do this, Dom and Epi to name two, and I see it as a civ behavior if done often.

* On Night 1/Day 2 he makes comments about Mac all of which are unfavorable. My point here is not that there is an in depth argument for Mac being bad but that the frequency of posts where he says unfavorable things about Mac is more than someone would do who was trying to distance. I might not have a complete list because I didn't notice the frequency at first but here is what I noted and remember this is just through Day 2:

Spoiler: show

Calls Mac weak for hanging from Jack's balls

Says Mac and his big D are aligned with mafia

Asks Jack: What do you hate most about Mac and his big D?

Says sig shitting all over Mac when he was one posted was Ace.

Says I could Lynch Mac for the crime of being irrelevant

Expands on irrelevant: only one thing he's done, parrot Jack so he had no personal accountability for nutella flip. Left in in Jack's lap.

Says "You're gonna die" when Mac asks someone to give him cliffs

Replies "This sucks" to Mac's post about Dom tunneling him

When ted defends Mac Jay challenges ted

Says he is uninspired by Mac's N1 and asks "why is Mac civilian"

TH asks "why would Mac do x,y,z as scum?" and Jay says "you have just described mafiaosco Mac"

Makes post 2652 on why Mac's reversal on nutella is not a reason to call him civ (sorry I don't know how to link it)

I say Mac is not behaving as he did in Inception where he was bad. Jay says Mac is not binary

Tells Dizzy Mac is not one of those players he would read as civ for saying he would be sad to be lynched (Dizzy asked)

Says to G-Man: ""You seem to be honoring Mac's call for help. This does not make me feel good."

* He does interactive analysis of everyone with Radish and everyone with Mac (I looked ahead to remember if he had done Mac). This is a time intensive endeavor and Jay has told us he is short of time. I don't think a scum Jay would spend this much time trying to help town.

I know you all mostly do not agree with me but this is how I see it through Day 2. I would really like to see what the case against Jay is. I know Epi thinks he sounded phony. It would be nice if someone else who thinks he is bad would explain their thoughts.

I will post more summary thoughts as I go through the rest of his posts. I may be going to bed now but I will answer any questions in the morning.

Let me ask you a question: Have you ever argued JJJ was bad before? If you have experienced bad JJJ, what was it like, and how did it compare to this?

That was several questions I know. I'll consider your view juliets. I don't think you are bad anyway.

I have never argued JJJ was bad. I think I've only played with bad Jay once and I don't remember him being around very much, at least not like normal. I tell you what though, I will look at a bad Jay in a game so I can refresh my memory. Do you know one where he was bad? Also Epi, if you have played with bad Jay I'd be interested in your opinion of how he plays when bad.

@JaggedJimmyJay can you give me a game where you were a baddie?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:46 pm Tony, why speed?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:03 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:46 pm Tony, why speed?

Just a gentle Day 5 prod

Dom wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:08 pm Someone make a case for a good Ted.

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:17 pm - Says ted is good -Epi, can you talk about your read on ted? I don't see it that way at this point.

Dom wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:05 pm TH
Ted
Jay
Colin

hey guys--

what's up?

Dom wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:08 pm Someone make a case for a good Ted.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:49 pm Won't vote for:

Dom, Epi, G-Man, Jack, Sloonei

Could be convinced to vote mostly anyone else

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:56 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:49 pm Won't vote for:

Dom, Epi, G-Man, Jack, Sloonei

Could be convinced to vote mostly anyone else

Talk to me about me, epi, and G-man.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:08 am Do you not agree with my reads?

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:17 am I couldn't say. They feel town

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:28 am Ted
Michelle
Speed
Tony is my pet paranoia read
Colin could be bad but I don't think so
Juliets could be bad but she seems okay for now
Jimmy is acting unjimmyish and begging me to scumread him

I guess that's where I'm at

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:08 am But to pause the mafia game for a moment, I do hope that we all remain healthy and in high spirits over the next couple of weeks. Even if you’re not in the high-risk portion of the population, this is not a very pleasant moment in time. Y’all are the best.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:41 am So I have reached the conclusion that someone must be scum. I am going to proceed by thinking of this game as one with one scum team and an SK. There’s no reason to continue to think about this as multiball unless someone seriously wants to track down the anti monitor. Which is unnecessary because it looks like we missed our revive.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:28 am Ted
Michelle
Speed
Tony is my pet paranoia read
Colin could be bad but I don't think so
Juliets could be bad but she seems okay for now
Jimmy is acting unjimmyish and begging me to scumread him

I guess that's where I'm at

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:33 am

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:28 am Ted
Michelle
Speed
Tony is my pet paranoia read
Colin could be bad but I don't think so
Juliets could be bad but she seems okay for now
Jimmy is acting unjimmyish and begging me to scumread him

I guess that's where I'm at

Do any of these suspects seem unviable for one team or the other?

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:35 am Not really