Cindy Kate & Percy Date Night Mafia <3 [ENDGAME]

[MacDougall]

Lowkey I think Seanzie is better than me at mafia.

Lowkey I think there is a chance this is openwolfing and Mac is like "wtf? How has Seanzie figured all these damned weird things out? Gotta try to pocket that sum'mabitch".

that'll teach me to compliment you

[MacDougall]

This post has been popping back up in my mind whenever I think of Mac. It feels like there is implicit argument here that he must be town because nutella treated him in a way that would be outside of her range.

I don't entirely follow. Do you mean this is to Mac's credit or something to think about in the other direction?

He was actively disagreeing with my nutella associative reads, and in that conversation he argued that nutella, as mafia, has trouble disguising her true intentions when she is casting suspicion on civilians.
Part of me is worried that this is Mafia Mac painting a certain image of nutella to bolster the credit he can receive from his own interactions with nutella.

this read actually makes me angry

That doesn't make it invalid.

k

[JaggedJimmyJay]

k

ʞ

[MacDougall]

Should we fill Made in on the details he's missing now?

I would very much enjoy that

don't do it sloo it's a trap

Hi! am I missing something big right now? and If so, how stupid do I look?

the only big thing you're missing is my...

[Seanzie]

Lowkey I think Seanzie is better than me at mafia.

Lowkey I think there is a chance this is openwolfing and Mac is like "wtf? How has Seanzie figured all these damned weird things out? Gotta try to pocket that sum'mabitch".

that'll teach me to compliment you

I'll bite though, what prompted the post?

[Sloonei]

That said, where is your head on Jay's 4 hit 3?

I have no idea what this means.

Jay's PoE

I am not fully up to date on what names are in and out of it, but if I've learned anything over the last 10 years it's that I probably agree with Jay's POE.

[MacDougall]

Lowkey I think Seanzie is better than me at mafia.

Lowkey I think there is a chance this is openwolfing and Mac is like "wtf? How has Seanzie figured all these damned weird things out? Gotta try to pocket that sum'mabitch".

that'll teach me to compliment you

I'll bite though, what prompted the post?

just catching up and reading everyone's posts yours are well thought out but in a way that isn't overwrought. Ez to parse. Good points. Not prone to hivemind. Just good.

[MacDougall]

That said, where is your head on Jay's 4 hit 3?

I have no idea what this means.

Jay's PoE

I am not fully up to date on what names are in and out of it, but if I've learned anything over the last 10 years it's that I probably agree with Jay's POE.

Have you guys released a video yet?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Have you guys released a video yet?

don't be jealous

[Made]

That said, where is your head on Jay's 4 hit 3?

I have no idea what this means.

Jay's PoE

I am not fully up to date on what names are in and out of it, but if I've learned anything over the last 10 years it's that I probably agree with Jay's POE.

This post is perfectly unhelpful.
the list is Act, Gnome, Me, and OC. The 10 years in agreement this time?

[MacDougall]

Have you guys released a video yet?

don't be jealous

Its ok I have @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME who is way hotter

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This post is perfectly unhelpful.
the list is Act, Gnome, Me, and OC. The 10 years in agreement this time?

Let's expand for clarity. That's the "inner" POE if I need such a distinction. The "outer" POE would be Allcrab, Martin, lost monkey, and bad bunny.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm physically fatigued from 13 miles of walking today and don't want to do interactive analysis.

I'll do some interactive analysis.

[Sloonei]

Since Made now knows that he is missing crucial information and we've all had our chances to get reactions out of him:
@Made Tangy is confirmed town because Belzy used a desperado shot on her Day 2. A Desperado is a vigilante role that dies if it targets a civilian. So when Belzy told us they were shooting Tangy and then dropped dead and flipped Desperado, that mechanically confirmed Tangy as Not Mafia.

I started the game as a 1-shot universal backup. I picked up Belzy's role. I currently have a desperado shot which I intend to use today.

[MacDougall]

Act maybe
Gnome maybe
Made maybe
OC maybe
Allcrab maybe
Martin ... no?
Lost Monkey no
Bad Bunny ... I kinda think we need to sheep Allcrab?

[MacDougall]

I'm physically fatigued from 13 miles of walking today and don't want to do interactive analysis.

I'll do some interactive analysis.

the military training in full effect

[MacDougall]

Since Made now knows that he is missing crucial information and we've all had our chances to get reactions out of him:
@Made Tangy is confirmed town because Belzy used a desperado shot on her Day 2. A Desperado is a vigilante role that dies if it targets a civilian. So when Belzy told us they were shooting Tangy and then dropped dead and flipped Desperado, that mechanically confirmed Tangy as Not Mafia.

I started the game as a 1-shot universal backup. I picked up Belzy's role. I currently have a desperado shot which I intend to use today.

you never did answer what happens if you shoot 3p

[Sloonei]

That said, where is your head on Jay's 4 hit 3?

I have no idea what this means.

Jay's PoE

I am not fully up to date on what names are in and out of it, but if I've learned anything over the last 10 years it's that I probably agree with Jay's POE.

This post is perfectly unhelpful.
the list is Act, Gnome, Me, and OC. The 10 years in agreement this time?

Gnome would be my top town read in that group (or the closest thing to a town read). I would put allcrab on the list in light of Seanzie's recent digging.
Act is someone I could comfortably argue both ways for right now, which is a strange feeling. I need something to stabilize my read one way or the other on her.

[Sloonei]

Since Made now knows that he is missing crucial information and we've all had our chances to get reactions out of him:
@Made Tangy is confirmed town because Belzy used a desperado shot on her Day 2. A Desperado is a vigilante role that dies if it targets a civilian. So when Belzy told us they were shooting Tangy and then dropped dead and flipped Desperado, that mechanically confirmed Tangy as Not Mafia.

I started the game as a 1-shot universal backup. I picked up Belzy's role. I currently have a desperado shot which I intend to use today.

you never did answer what happens if you shoot 3p

It is strongly indicated that my shot is only successful if I hit a member of the mafia team.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would really like for Sloonei to hit mafia. Confirming someone in the POE as town is swell, but alive Sloonei + dead maf >>>> that.

This is obvious. This post is not useful. Let's just find him a good shot.

[Sloonei]

nutella/owner/made/allcrab/sonnycrush?

[Seanzie]

nutella/owner/made/allcrab/sonnycrush?

How do you feel about Made's apparent lack of knowledge about the entire game? Real? Fake? AI?

[MacDougall]

Since Made now knows that he is missing crucial information and we've all had our chances to get reactions out of him:
@Made Tangy is confirmed town because Belzy used a desperado shot on her Day 2. A Desperado is a vigilante role that dies if it targets a civilian. So when Belzy told us they were shooting Tangy and then dropped dead and flipped Desperado, that mechanically confirmed Tangy as Not Mafia.

I started the game as a 1-shot universal backup. I picked up Belzy's role. I currently have a desperado shot which I intend to use today.

you never did answer what happens if you shoot 3p

It is strongly indicated that my shot is only successful if I hit a member of the mafia team.

so Tangrowth is definitely the poisoner cuz of course that happened

[Sloonei]

I thought about picking up hawk's role, but A) I wasn't fully convinced the poisoner would keep poisoning every night/last all that long, B) desperado resolves more people more quickly, and C) this is way more fun.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Aaaaaand that's all we've got time for today, folks! I've compiled this nice list of my last will and testament:

Gnome https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 19#p802419 - also she didn't vote at EoD1
Dana https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 96#p802490
Martin https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 01#p802518
Fable https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 50#p802569
Owner https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 00#p803794
Act https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 91#p803991
LoMo https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 39#p803928
Sonny https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 58#p803858
Orange https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 73#p803873

Gonna go solve puzzles now bye

@Sloonei these are worth perusing.

[Seanzie]

I would really like for Sloonei to hit mafia. Confirming someone in the POE as town is swell, but alive Sloonei + dead maf >>>> that.

This is obvious. This post is not useful. Let's just find him a good shot.

You'd think this post is not useful, but the number of people who have volunteered to get shot says otherwise. Regardless of if they are town or bravado-scum, it is just the wrong move.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think Made could be legitimately uninformed and still mafia. Owner seemed to have no clue Tangrowth was confirmed until being explicitly reminded.

[Seanzie]

Aaaaaand that's all we've got time for today, folks! I've compiled this nice list of my last will and testament:

Gnome https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 19#p802419 - also she didn't vote at EoD1
Dana https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 96#p802490
Martin https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 01#p802518
Fable https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 50#p802569
Owner https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 00#p803794
Act https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 91#p803991
LoMo https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 39#p803928
Sonny https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 58#p803858
Orange https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 73#p803873

Gonna go solve puzzles now bye

@Sloonei these are worth perusing.

Agreed. I actually switched from Martin to OC because I read Hawk's Sonny and Orange accounts. She gave them something like 75% chance at mafia, and made some good points, and reminded me of some points against Sonny I had forgotten.

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: orange] aubergine

[MacDougall]

chop Orange shoot Allcrab

[Sloonei]

nutella/owner/made/allcrab/sonnycrush?

How do you feel about Made's apparent lack of knowledge about the entire game? Real? Fake? AI?

I do not know. It is definitely worth considering if Made has, uh, made it this far in the game without his teammates informing him that Tangy is mechanically confirmed, even if just incidentally. But Made has been absent from the game for long stretches, and I think there is sometimes a tendency to overestimate the team awareness of all members of a mafia team at all times. For instance, in my one and only game to date on your home site, I was mafia and was fully unaware of the web of role claims (hints, technically) in the thread toward endgame and relied entirely on the townies to tell me themselves what everyone was.
There can be legitimate strategic value to a mafioso maintaining genuine ignorance of thread events (that wasn't the case for me on MafCafe. I just straight up didn't know what was happening and was very vulnerable as a result). It is possible Mafia Made either preferred to keep himself uninformed of major events, or simply missed any mention of tangrowth in scum chat.

[Sloonei]

Maybe I should shoot Tangy again. Just to be sure.

[Sloonei]

Aaaaaand that's all we've got time for today, folks! I've compiled this nice list of my last will and testament:

Gnome https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 19#p802419 - also she didn't vote at EoD1
Dana https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 96#p802490
Martin https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 01#p802518
Fable https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 50#p802569
Owner https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 00#p803794
Act https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 91#p803991
LoMo https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 39#p803928
Sonny https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 58#p803858
Orange https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 73#p803873

Gonna go solve puzzles now bye

@Sloonei these are worth perusing.

will give them some perusal when it's not 3 AM.

[Guillotine]

chop Orange shoot Allcrab

Actually no. Let's shoot AllCrab, if they flip mafia we yeet Martin. It could be other way around too. Shoot Martin and if he flips mafia, yeet the crab.
Basically be ause if one of the flips mafia, then the theory that town has two same roles goes out of the window.

[Guillotine]

Maybe I should shoot Tangy again. Just to be sure.

How will that give us certainty?

[Sloonei]

I think we should be shooting the safest target within the POE.

[Sloonei]

Maybe I should shoot Tangy again. Just to be sure.

How will that give us certainty?

We'll know that Tangy isn't mafia twice.

[Seanzie]

chop Orange shoot Allcrab

Actually no. Let's shoot AllCrab, if they flip mafia we yeet Martin. It could be other way around too. Shoot Martin and if he flips mafia, yeet the crab.
Basically be ause if one of the flips mafia, then the theory that town has two same roles goes out of the window.

I don't think this follows.

[Seanzie]

postcount

[Sloonei]

note: if I shoot town and die, it can be taken as another step toward confirming that I was the night 1 kill target.

[Guillotine]

Maybe I should shoot Tangy again. Just to be sure.

How will that give us certainty?

We'll know that Tangy isn't mafia twice.

Again how that that help us? It's not like the first desperado shot was not mod confirmed.

[Sloonei]

Maybe I should shoot Tangy again. Just to be sure.

How will that give us certainty?

We'll know that Tangy isn't mafia twice.

Again how that that help us? It's not like the first desperado shot was not mod confirmed.

Guillo I am joking

[Guillotine]

Maybe I should shoot Tangy again. Just to be sure.

How will that give us certainty?

We'll know that Tangy isn't mafia twice.

Again how that that help us? It's not like the first desperado shot was not mod confirmed.

Guillo I am joking

[Guillotine]

I think we should be shooting the safest target within the POE.

The safest? Who is the safest?

[Sloonei]

I think we should be shooting the safest target within the POE.

The safest? Who is the safest?

That is the question we are currently trying to answer as a group.
Who do you think it is?

[MacDougall]

I think we should be shooting the safest target within the POE.

The safest? Who is the safest?

That is the question we are currently trying to answer as a group.
Who do you think it is?

postcount lol

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The Owner/Act interaction is long as hell, and as a hype post lemme say that I'm gonna have gripes.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Have you guys released a video yet?

don't be jealous

Its ok I have @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME who is way hotter

<3

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Owner and Actvscenei

From Owner

Spoiler: show

It was years ago, but some people know of it. I just assumed I must have told you about it or brought it up in another game.

Nope. On the rare occasion I encounter that (that is, Glorfindel) I prefer to respect a player's wishes anyway.

How about this instead: any initial impressions?

Tangy is talkative. That's normal for her from what I remember.

Nutella's first post pinged me a little...not sure if I have really heard upgaymers? in a sentence before..it could be nai, it's just a bit out there for me which...on this first date I expect there is more not less of it to come (almost spelled that wrong) I think I need to get out more

Mac could be town if I remember his meta right. If memory serves, he's like more gunho as town...idk, I think that's right

You (JJJ) could be anything..light town for now

I need to read more posts though from the others.

I need to see more of Sonny's posts.

My vote on Sloonei is an old PerC tell where when scum don't know what to say on day 1 they make a questionnaire. I think the context of it was how it was determined whether it was scummy or nai, but it has been awhile.

Are you caught up then? Or is this just the first few pages?

If you are caught up, would love your takes on the other Percy players who have posted.

I'm still responding to page 1 of 15, not there yet. I'm really curious about why a wagon is on Act.

First date icebreaker question for everyone: what’s your favorite trip you’ve ever been on?

Disney World/Disney Cruises. And you?

Follow up, why did you choose to ask this particular question?

wolfy first post

I don't see why that's wolfy.

hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

Oof, this "icky feeling" pinged me...I wish I saved a screenshot of the votes to know if I mind melded with some people

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

A wagon on me not forming would have been weird. What are your reads like owner?

I have more reads on non-PerC people. this is the first post I've really seen from you. I haven't read anything from Belzy, Kito, crab (not that I know how to even read crab, i seen a few of act's posts.

I should have more time after church tomorrow.

the wolves are so good at gaining everyones trust and then they just turn around and kill us all

hmm, do I trust the person with the cat avi? Sweet, innocent, cute looking kitty...hmm...they are probably...or maybe they will scratch me later...hmm...I think I should ignore my inclinations towards reading someone's avi. It's probably NAI.

Owner, what are your thoughts on Dana?

And what was your purpose for posting this/saying this out loud?

She hasn't said anything that pings me. She feels fine. She's in the slight town boat. I don't really know her range or how capable she is.

So far my the people who have pinged me are yourself, Tangy, nutella, and Sloonei

Alison's personality is strong, but I don't necessarily feel that that makes her mafia. If her reads were to clash really heavily with mine after days had gone by, I would maybe revisit her. But right now, her opinions are her own. I don't always have a purpose when responding to something. I just feel like that's something I would comment about and then I usually do so. As for saying things that help other players relate to or read me better, that probably still isn't my best suit, especially when playing with new people.

Why did you ignore my second question?

I answered it, already. I don't always have a purpose. I sometimes just comment. Are you not fully reading my post then? Spelled out in plain lettering I don't recall having a purpose, I just saw her avi and that's what I was thinking about.

I had no idea that was your answer to my question...I thought you were just giving a random read on Alison lol. So you saying “I just feel like that's something I would comment about and then I usually do so” doesn’t help me feel any better about it all since I’m getting the sense that you’re trying to emulate your town play.

I feel like my play is hard to match if that's ever a thing. I think I've only ever mildly done it twice, but it wasn't particularly sustainable. Or people aren't aware of what constitutes my play so that would make it easier.

@Owner of a Lonely Heart I gave you a second chance yesterday. Town up and show me it was the right decision.

Nutella flipped scum so I think that was good decision regardless.

I don't know what I expected. But I think was thinking of regular posting levels, not a mismatch of there's no way I can be caught in timely fashion and playing a game with several vets don't know me. I mean I knew there would be new people, but I didn't prep too much for culture clashing or anything.


---
I don't have a lot of time tonight. But I'll try to get some current stances out.

hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

I initially felt pinged by the icky feeling words, but reading it now it feels like Act is reacting to Dana's words as if to say she kind of sounds fake or it is sort of a blanket statement or could just be filler

- light town for Act

hello everyone! I'm so nervous but also very excited to make lots of new friends!!

This post has my attention. Don’t like it. Seems scummy.

Let’s get to know each other more so I can get rid of this icky feeling. What are you most excited about and what are you most nervous for?

What don't you like about it? Seems non AI to me.

Unlike your posts that felt genuine, this feels like a forced nicety. Among a couple other things, but I’m working that out in a convo with Dana! Stay tuned. Thoughts may change.

- scum!Act is different, she's town for me

---

If act has a read on gnome already she's a hot stinking liar

tell me more

Well she already admitted she can't read gnome, and it's true. So if act is town idk why she would base any of her reads on interactions around gnome.

I feel like it doesn't matter if she can't read gnome. Like all times when I suspected Dizzy or town read him, even if I didn't always have the best reads on him, I still felt like maybe I can read him this time around because maybe I have learned from x situation or have seen a new pattern. Just because of something said this game, I feel stronger about a read.

I'm null on Kito. I need read his ISO/hope he's town, since my scum meta on him is still that one game where was super dramatic for one moment, and I highly doubt he will do that here if he's scum.

@Owner of a Lonely Heart, your vote is still on a mechanically confirmed townie. For what it’s worth.

How is she mechanically confirmed town? I haven't seen anything yet that would maybe suggest that. But I'm a bit behind.

Owner wasn't caught up enough to know the belzy/tangy situation but still managed to clear up her role, the one thing that everyone really wanted to know. Could be directions from scum chat. I'm not sure what townie sees a massive wagon on them, doesn't catch up, and decides the best thing to do is immediately claim, especially when they made a point of being coy about it before.

Claim is real but NAI, waiting on sean.

Also curious whomst the fuck gifted Sloonei, in this case. Fancy targeting me tonight, mystery gifter? If you town read me, of course.

I don't have time to catch up. I have like 2 other things going on plus work going on in my life. I filled/joined this for numbers sake and cause Guillo is a cool guy. I also liked a lot of players in sign up list. Clearing up my role was mainly checking what each mention or quote said directed at me in my notifications. I didn't know the belzy/tangy situation because I wasn't caught up and because that was something that wasn't quoted or directly mentioned to me beyond what Act had asked me about.


Often when you see lots of votes on yourself like I do, you come to realize you might be a bigger distraction. Regardless of if I could somehow manage to turn the tide; my slot would still need to be directly resolved at some point in order for the game to move forward. That's a fact.

As for claiming, I could to get it out in the open for as many people to see. I'm assuming a soup kill wouldn't be able to touch me if it doesn't directly know it's exact name, but that's speculation. I don't want people to have to make a last minute decision on it.

One of my gripes with you is that you said you targeted one single person. Then you said you targeted Jay and Gavial. Can you clear that?

It sounded like Seanzie was trying to trap me. I was not going to give him more information than what he provided, so I went singular.

Orange - These comments are generally defensive of Act. This is the most prevalent color, which on its own means less than progression. What interests me here is the location of that green line (described below) relative to the orange lines that follow. So for this blurb just note that Owner was predominantly pro-Act.

Green - These comments are generally in suspicion of Act. There's only one such post. The important thing to me about this is that Owner made one accusation against Act, which she later reversed to a defense on the basis of the same post. This recalls nutella's treatment of Act, albeit to less extreme a degree. Both voice some early grievance with Act before transitioning to town reads on her. It's at least an awkward progression.

Cyan - These comments are in direct exchanges with Act. These are generally a bit more to Act's credit. She was pointed and clear in her questions without leaving a bunch of wiggle for Owner, particularly with things like "why did you ignore my second question?" -- the overall interactions are still pretty soft, but it's better than nothing.

~~~

From Actvscenei

Spoiler: show

@Alison , I’m not giving a reads list lol. Dig your vote in me harder for that if you want, but I firmly believe reads lists as a whole are nothing but WIFOM and fodder for scum to manipulate so....sorry about it lol.

If you haven’t seen me questioning others and attempting to learn others’ alignments, then you’ve narrowed your focus on me to a point where you’re blind to what I’m saying/doing.

@Sonny, did you give a read on Owner? If not, what do you think of her?

@Owner of a Lonely Heart, you haven’t posted any thoughts on me. You questioned why I was the leading wagon at the time...but so did Mac and so did Sonny. The question doesn’t bother me from Mac. It’s slightly from Sonny, and very from you. Have you got your answer and have you made an opinion on it?

not sure, how I feel about all the lomo votes...hmm...I'm not caught up. But it seems like I keep seeing PerC wagons as if we are unwelcomed on someone's home turf...adk

I really hate this AtE.

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

It's not AtE. It's I see 4 votes on lomo that look steady or have been there for a period of time. Generally like 4 or 5 votes on someone is like there is probably scum in that wagon. Or it could mean like a cop check or something, but generally day 1 a wagon that size and potentially unmoving is kind of meh for me.

So from that point of view, I think he might be town, but I have yet to read his posts, so I don't know yet.

I don’t think his wagon has been there that long tbh though. I went to bed yesterday and his wagon wasn’t this big. Woke up and see a larger wagon. Maybe my perception is off?

I wanna kill nutella

why

she keeps pinging me, that spicy comment in particular was weird

Owner does that. She picks up on the smallest, seemingly strangest reasons to read people. With that said, it doesn’t usually seem this prominent...meaning, I feel like she’s laying it on thick right now. It feels manufactured in a “I know people know me for this type of game play so I should be doing that!”

For example: in the past, Owner used the word “interesting” as a scum tell for people. In another game, she used an avatar change as a scum tell. Now, I’m seeing her pick up on an odd word AND call out an avatar nearly back to back.

I've been calling things I agree with spicy for literal years now what is wrong with you people

Is anyone other than Owner suspecting you for the word “spicy?”

I wanna kill nutella

why

she keeps pinging me, that spicy comment in particular was weird

Owner does that. She picks up on the smallest, seemingly strangest reasons to read people. With that said, it doesn’t usually seem this prominent...meaning, I feel like she’s laying it on thick right now. It feels manufactured in a “I know people know me for this type of game play so I should be doing that!”

For example: in the past, Owner used the word “interesting” as a scum tell for people. In another game, she used an avatar change as a scum tell. Now, I’m seeing her pick up on an odd word AND call out an avatar nearly back to back.

Realized you were talking about Nutella and not Owner here lol.

Like it's not banter she's pretending stuff is alignment indicative that is very not and it's jarring

What do you mean it's not alignment indicative? The coffee tell on Dizzy was a pattern. Something very small could easily be another pattern. Do you not analyze patterns? A lot of stuff can be alignment indicative. It depends the players and certain variables, but they can be there.

I agree that small things can be part of a bigger pattern; however, until you start seeing that pattern with confirmed results, how can you call it alignment indicative? Have you seen Nutella play mafia games in which “spicy” was a word she only used as scum?

Woah, okay, the poll is... different. I felt better about nutella than Owner when I last left, so I'll place my vote appropriately, but I'll do some digging.

[VOTE: owner] aubergine

Why Owner? I’m not sure I love this vote change, so an explanation would help.

By vote change, I mean moving your vote to Owner at this time.

I'm like shoving Owner with my vines right now, but she could actually be town. I am increasingly getting the feeling she believes what she's saying. I need to hear more from her though before feeling comfortable with that.

I agree with you that Owner likely believes what she’s saying, but I’m not so sure that means she’s town. What do you make of the wagon building on her?

I'm like shoving Owner with my vines right now, but she could actually be town. I am increasingly getting the feeling she believes what she's saying. I need to hear more from her though before feeling comfortable with that.

I agree with you that Owner likely believes what she’s saying, but I’m not so sure that means she’s town. What do you make of the wagon building on her?

I'm not really sure, I think there's just some innate desire to want a counterwagon, and Owner is a pretty easy person to suspect for the things she's said in this game.

Do you happen to remember who started the Owner wagon and why?

Nothing irritates me more than people who won’t read between the lines and assume all I’m doing is putting a vote down. Yup. I suspect Dana. My vote is still there I don’t suspect anymore right now more than I suspect Dana. No one else other than Guillotine has questioned Dana (I think? Correct me if I’m wrong), and so that tells me I may need to step back from this a bit and reassess. But until anything else strikes more me, my vote stays there.

People like to read me for meta because I’m a bit of a crazy person in mafia, but my meta is all over the place especially since returning, and I invite anyone to read through my past games on MafC to get a more informed idea of my play style. I wary of claims like Seanzie’s in which he declared my meta as the main reason for suspecting me and then cited playing in current games with me. If he was paying attention to my game play as much as he’s suggesting he has (so far as to read me for it), then he’d know better than to think I have any consistent meta. Lost Monkey and Owner have also contributed to reads on me based on Meta. LoMo is mostly sheeping those reads from Seanzie though (maybe a couple sprinkles are his own). Owner is reading me on meta saying this isn’t my scum meta. I imagine they aren’t all scum, but they all know better. Is Owner trying to pacify me? While Seanzie and LoMo are shading me? Idk, but I know they know my meta is NOT a reliable source of reading me. However, it is the easiest way to shade me because half the players here (maybe a little more than half?) don’t know me and may not have the energy to check out if it’s reliable information. I get it, some people naturally play with meta in mind, but I think it’s the easiest crutch for scum, especially in a game where many people can’t verify.

Anyway, that’s my meta gripe. Other than that, those touting I’ve done nothing but suspect Dana are simply not reading my posts. I question people, and those questions are motivated to move the game in a way that helps me figure stuff out. Belzy’s flip does change some ideas of mine, and it does relieve some of my suspicion on Dana. That said, Owner’s responses to my questions did not satisfy me, and her meta read on me has me like . I’m looking at this push on Owner though, and I’m not sure I like Seanzie here. His meta read on me and refusal to back up his statements sat uncomfortably with me. That’s sort of informing my opinion on this yeet push right now.

Jay insists I’m doing nothing but suspecting Dana and that my interaction with Nutella firms me up as scum. From the looks of it, I suspect Jay is able to read quite well between the lines, and so I’d imagine then that could see what I was doing aside from just voting for Dana. ISOs, and whatever this interactives thing is don’t impress me. Anyone can sit there and collect quotes and analyze them and arrive at varying interpretations. This is literally what I do with my students on a daily basis, and I know very well how easy it is for scum to put in the effort to collect all this data and present findings that appear like town musings. What this does though is more scum motivated than town motivate (I KNOW very few agree with that). But scum can be very influential in this way and manipulate town. Town sees the work, reads the work as being town motivated (because look at all that work!) and then takes those words at higher value. Now scum can convince the players to vote in the direction they choose. I’m not at a point to say Jay is scum for it, but he’s definitely not town for it.

Dana’s expanded reads list paired with the other posts she’s had have me leaning scum on her. Which I’ve explained. Don’t want me talking about Dana, don’t question me on why my vote is still there. Maybe Dana is town and I’ve got it wrong. I’m not out here yelling at you all to vote Dana. What is my motive as scum to keep my vote there? At EoD1, people asked me to move my vote off Dana and onto one of the wagons. Idk which tbh. And I didn’t. I was under a microscope at some point last day phase for suspecting Dana...what is my scum motive for throwing that spotlight back on myself?

Sonny knows my play and has been a voice of reason for me in the past as town. He’s not doing that this game. So if we’re playing with meta, there’s that. I don’t feel great about Sonny, but it’s not a read I’m confident with.

That’s where I’m at currently.

I agree with that observation @Garden Gnome -- tangible drop in engagement from Owner that doesn't quite align to my other premier suspects apart maybe from bad bunny. Not good at face value.

Why is activity level a factor? Owner had been suspected prior to the fruit scandal and remained in the game. Maybe I have an inaccurate perception of time...is there a pattern of Owner dropping off when under suspicion?

It's not a meta read. I rarely bother with those unless I think it's truly applicable. As a general rule, I think mafia members are more likely to trail off in activity under constant pressure than town players are. That's not absolute, but it would align with my experience.

I meant a pattern in this game. For example, I would agree if there was evidence in the game to suggest Owner flakes at suspicion. However, there is evidence to the contrary. She’s been under suspicion and from what I remember (and could be wrong), she remained. This is not to say I’m not suspicious of Owner (I think I explained myself in my long post earlier lol), but I do not like this reason for suspecting her.

I agree with that observation @Garden Gnome -- tangible drop in engagement from Owner that doesn't quite align to my other premier suspects apart maybe from bad bunny. Not good at face value.

Why is activity level a factor? Owner had been suspected prior to the fruit scandal and remained in the game. Maybe I have an inaccurate perception of time...is there a pattern of Owner dropping off when under suspicion?

All right. Could you talk to me about the fruit scandal? I have read most of the posts but I can't seem to find the source of the fruit scandal. Do you suspect that some sort of fake claim was involved and that Owner vanished because of the suspicion?

From my understanding, Owner claimed she sent fruit to someone. People assumed she sent the fruit to Jay. Jay said no fruit here. And Seanzie has been hardcore pushing for votes on her ever since. I mean, I’m generalizing, others have called her suspicious for the fruit too, I think, but no one is pushing for her votes more than Seanzie. So that’s what stands out to me.

My unsolicited opinion on the fruit matter is that she can easily lie about sending fruit to someone. It’s a closed game lol. Someone suggested it’s an easy check, but she can say “I sent fruit. No one got it? Ah man. Something must have interfered” and how could we argue that? Scum can easily hide behind claims this game. And sending fruit is such an easy claim to hide behind because it’s super harmless (I think?) and either someone confirms getting fruit or no one does and like I said, easy hideout. But if Owner did have an action and someone happened to see her, she can always say “it was the fruit” rather than perhaps something more sinister that she may have actually done. So long story short, she could easily still be scum. Or she could be town. Maybe she actually did send fruit haha.

Perhaps while we wait for Owner to reveal the fruit target, it's meaningful that nobody has claimed to have received fruit.

I agree. I think at this point, everyone has posted at least once since Owner claimed the fruit?

[VOTE: Owner] aubergine

Maybe I’ll move it back to Dana, maybe I won’t. I’m happy moving it here for now.

Alison and Owner have not appeared in the game since Owner’s fruit claim. Out loud speculation...is there a possibility Owner gave Alison poisoned fruit and now for whatever reason they are both silenced?

I’m developing a new theory, would like some feedback on it:

Owner is town.

@MacDougall Yup

Feel free to comment on the theory.

Now that apparently everyone and their mother received a gift, I’m not as suspicious of Owner. Feeling unsure, might switch back to Dana later, idk.

@Gavial, can you list all the roles in this game and who completed what action last night phase? If not, you cannot confirm that you are the reason no kill happened. So do more than just say you have a red check on Hawk and that we all need to vote there.

I do not believe Owner’s claim. I agree with Nanook that the thought process doesn’t match up. Owner responded to Seanzie’s question about if she targeted Jay with “I sent fruit to someone, but idk if they got it.” It’s a non answer because it doesn’t directly address whether she targeted Jay. “Someone” could mean anyone. Why not say she sent fruit to Jay at that moment? Why be sneaky about that? If Owner did in fact send fruit to Jay and Gavial, upon the start of D2, and seeing that Jay and Gavial are bedding it up tonight, she would know immediately that it was her doing. Because what are the chances the two lovers are the two she sent fruit to? This is a large game. No way she doesn’t know what her fruit has done. So to answer that question so vaguely is not helpful. The only motive I can see is not wanting to claim BUT she did claim so why equivocate there? There’s no need.

Then, she says the person who she sent fruit to hasn’t claimed receiving fruit. The “person.” Singular. In this post, apparently she sent fruit to only one person. And she doesn’t know whether that one person received it. Well, that’s a lie. She did know because like I said before, she doesn’t enter D1 not knowing that info after seeing the date announcement. But also...why reduce her recipients from two to one?

6484784928474 years later, Owner returns with a fully fleshed claim that contradicts what she previously announced. Now she confirms Jay as a target AND Gavial and she did know they received the fruit, although neither of them are aware of receiving fruit (which I don’t take with too much weight because maybe they wouldn’t know).

This claim does not make sense. The only hold up then is...why would Owner create this elaborate claim without knowing if someone could cc the date mechanic? Maybe...

Owner knows how the date happened. I’ve played a game in which lovers engage and then one dies. (Owner was the torturer, I died). Maybe this date setup is a scum mechanic and Owner knows one of Jay or Gavial will die at the end of the date?? Maybe Owner set up the date as scum or maybe a scum buddy did and is in cahoots with this plan to shield Owner.

I might suggest Gavial is scum and is the torturer/neighborizer thingy (like Guillo had in his game this one time lol). Owner is scum with Gavial (and would then know no one would cc her fruit crap). Gavial will choose to kill Jay tonight after their night together.

Owner poisoned Alison with fruit.

I might suggest Gavial is scum and is the torturer/neighborizer thingy (like Guillo had in his game this one time lol). Owner is scum with Gavial (and would then know no one would cc her fruit crap). Gavial will choose to kill Jay tonight after their night together.

Owner poisoned Alison with fruit.

I’ve at least considered the first portion of this post (that Gavial is in on it), and let it alone since I don’t think Gavial looks too bad.

I’m considering it openly now because I do think Gavial is looking a little on the side and with Owner’s claim requires knowledge that no one would cc her. The choice to put you and Gavial is an odd pairing considering D1 posts and I don’t see anyone truly making that pair up out of nowhere. But I do see Gavial choosing you to buddy up with if you are town. You’re a strong voice and someone I’d see scum choosing to kill.

Maybe mafia doesn’t have a factional kill, maybe the modifying role had something to do about that. Perhaps their kills are drawn out which would account for the date/kill mechanic and the poison. Or maybe those are just 3p things and the factional kill was blocked. Regardless, in my mind, it makes more sense for Gavial to choose you than it does for Owner to pair you and Gavial.

Because of our clashing, I wasn't going to give it to you. Mac and Sloonei, I debated about, but I went with Gavial as I wanted someone who was likely to be alive the next day.

Ah, I guess I do have to say it then. My role is called Cupid. So seeing Cupid + passion fruit = I thought sex, but then I thought in terms of mafia roles, I thought like a mason or neighborizer chat that's protected or something, 'cause lucky. I assume pomegranate is like lovers chat, so I'm not entirely sure if I really want to use that one. Banana sounds like a lesser of passion fruit. Or maybe it is unprotected, but I don't know. If there is a soup kill in the game, I would be fine with going out that way. I mean I don't want to go, but at the same time, I don't have all the time needed to really be full on active this game. I pose as a distraction, but if we could prevent a mislynch that would be kind of cool.

But I don't necessarily expect everyone see it that way.

One of my gripes with you is that you said you targeted one single person. Then you said you targeted Jay and Gavial. Can you clear that?

No one has claimed chat-maker, so Owner is telling the truth. Isn't that logical?

I think it’s scum-aligned, and I think it’s Gavial. And I think Gavial is making up this Hawk story to take pressure off of Owner, his scum buddy.

I still don’t believe Owner’s claim.

If Jay is town, I won’t be surprised if he’s dead after this little date night. I don’t trust Gavial, and I think he’s scum with Owner.

One of my gripes with you is that you said you targeted one single person. Then you said you targeted Jay and Gavial. Can you clear that?

It sounded like Seanzie was trying to trap me. I was not going to give him more information than what he provided, so I went singular.

But like what were you afraid of being trapped for? Why was that something you were nervous about? It seems pretty NAI to say “yeah, my fruit paired them up.”

Assuming we are correct today: Owner is plainly and obviously being bussed, at least in the poll. It will take some parsing if we wish to sort that out, but I would caution against going too crazy with it. When everybody does one thing, and can become too easy to imagine bad intentions when there aren’t any.

Without looking at or naming anyone in particular just yet, we should consider what bussing might look like in this instance.

Gavial is off wagon, and if Owner flips scum, I think that’s worth acknowledging. How many scum are there? I imagine if Gavial is scum, and if Owner flips scum, then other scum buddies could be those just hanging out on the wagon hitching a free ride.

What is owner is the Matchmaker

"Twice per game during the night, you may try and make two players lovers. This ability is only successful on people of the same faction. You will know when you target at least one non-town role despite the outcome.

You win when the town loses."

So this is essentially a blind lost wolf that doesn't count for pairity and doesn't need to die for a town win (maybe?) but can alignment check two per night with the possible drawback that it gives BTSC to people that you might not want to get BTSC?

If we knew for sure Owner was this, I might think about saying we should chop elsewhere since they don't count for parity and we may win with them, but since we don't know this, and it is a scum-siding role whose flip could possibly clear JJJ and Gav, I'd still chop Owner.

Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but if Owner is that, her best interest is in us losing. It says that role wins when town loses.

Owner claimed Cupid. This is the role info I got from MU after a Google search:

“The Cupid is a third party-aligned role that once per game on any night may choose two players to become Lovers. These players will then begin to share a private chat and if at any point one of them dies, the other player will instantly die as well. They are, however, not informed of each other's roles. If both Lovers survive until the end of the game, the Cupid wins.”

Which is funny because Owner suspects Tangy of being exactly 3p.

If we don’t believe Owner’s claim, she’s mafia. If we do believe her claim, she’s 3p. Either way, she’s scum.

Orage - I'm sticking with the color designations from before. These are defenses of some kind of Owner, or comments than can be indirectly protective of Owner. There are a couple of moments here that stand out to me in a bad way. In three separate instances, Act steps in Owner's defense by way of voicing suspicion of one of her accusers. She didn't like Tangy's vote switch to Owner. She didn't like Seanzie's hard-line beefing with Owner. She didn't like he voicing suspicion of Owner's activity. These aren't difficult to view as chainsaws, because they all stand as caveats. She was pleased to voice suspicion of Owner herself to whatever degree, but she was also happy to move against Owner's opponents with what I'd call weak rationale. If she was looking for ways to get around Owner's bad posture in the game, these are clear examples of what that'd look like.

Green - These are again comments of suspicion or aggression. I probably should have flipped these colors around, but it's too late for that. Green is the most prevalent color here, and given the contexts of events I think that's to be expected. Especially during Day 2, defenses of Owner were hard to come by anywhere in this thread. So on that note it might be meaningful that the predominance of protective orange is present in the first half of the spoiler, primarily Day 1.

Another gripe: I cannot really tell what Act thinks of Owner's fruit vendor claim. It's a bit disjointed. She thoroughly discredits the claim on multiple occasions, but also tacks in these little moments where she "trusts the claim more" (e.g. because lots of people have gifts) -- her desire to vote Dana instead is readily apparent.

Red - These are a few miscellaneous bits that I just wanted to discuss separately. The first one Sloonei mentioned, wherein Act stepped in to talk about and half-defend Owner in response to Mac when he was talking about nutella. My response is less charitable than Sloonei's was. It doesn't have to be a bad oopsie, but I am not giving the benefit of the doubt.

However, the moments that bother me more relate to Gavial. When Act discussed the date between Gavial and I and Owner's potential role in it, she was very intent to find ways to attach Gavial to Owner at the hip. She even essentially predicted that I would die during that date and set herself up to attack Gavial afterwards. Had Gavial been the agent of chaos that mafia wanted him to be in that date, then Act would have been ready to do exactly what they wanted -- and it's not hard to imagine that there's a reason for that. Thankfully Gavial took one for the team, but I really don't like any of this.

~~~

Conclusion

From Owner's side, this isn't super conclusive. I wouldn't discount them as teammates on that basis.

From Act's side, I actively dislike most of what I see. Act can absolutely be Owner's teammate.

[Guillotine]

I think we should be shooting the safest target within the POE.

The safest? Who is the safest?

That is the question we are currently trying to answer as a group.
Who do you think it is?

You are asking the wrong person. I would have listened to my gut and my gut only, i always do. I dont believe in consensus shots. I would have done it like Belzy did it but on a hard to solve player.