The Syndicate

SVS, what do you think of my other suspects then? I mentioned several others I find either just as or more suspicious as you.

Yeah was about to ask who you suspect SVS. I can sympathise with you being kind of at a loss though...

I'm confused as to what "getting in trouble" with me has relevance to anything, or even is a thing that happens. But maybe that's neither here nor there.

Dom, nice observations on sprityo and Glorfindel. I also agree heavily with TH that Glorf is playing way differently than he did in Pikmin, and I hosted that game.

Dom wrote:If we're talking about SVS, I think we should talk about whether or not her emotional lashing out over Mac's role claim indicates she is bad. She voted for Mac right before he claimed. She might be lashing out as a reaction of now potentially looking bad. I know SVS HATES role claims (so do I, and their use in this game does not look to be stopping), but she was a bit manipulative with her posts.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 33#p237533
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 38#p237538
These two posts are what I'm talking about.
Now, this is not NEARLY has manipulative or guilt trip inducing as posts in A World Reborn (I'm thinking of the sad bear post), so I'm not nearly as convinced. What do we think of this?

If I had to pick who might be Sabie's teammate(s) between LoRab and SVS, I'd say maybe SVS. Between those two and Matt? I'm not liking Matt these days. I think Glorfindel is acting very bad and sprit is bad too.

I agree.

I'm not sure I can explain why, but Lorab has seemed very genuine to me.

At this point in time I think I would prefer a lynch as follows:
1) SVS
2) Glorfindel
3) sprityo
4) no show

I also don't really particularly suspect Enrique anymore, but I'm keeping an eye on him. I think I was being a bit over critical in my analysis of his behavior.

MP, can you explain why you ranked people the way you did?

Also, what are your thoughts on Matt?

MovingPictures07 wrote:At this point in time I think I would prefer a lynch as follows:
1) SVS
2) Glorfindel
3) sprityo
4) no show

I also don't really particularly suspect Enrique anymore, but I'm keeping an eye on him. I think I was being a bit over critical in my analysis of his behavior.

MP what do you see in SVS other than what Dom said? If I just missed it refer me to your ipo. Also, she has voted herself.

Sigh.

Glorfindel wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I wanna say a sabie teammate might have thrown in the towel at some point but I feel pretty good about all the sabie votes. What do we think of Glofy's vote for MM? He did that thing again where he brings a case forth and votes for it all in the same breath after spending the rest of the day not talking about his reads.

Unlike some of you, I have a full time job and other commitments that mean I can't spend every waking minute here. I do my best to contribute to this game and again, unlike some of you I am uncomfortable lynching a fellow player without some semblance of a case against them. I'd like to think that especailly as we get deeper into these games I prefer to substantiate my lynch with a case based on at least some kind of loose logic and to do so takes time. You may not have seen this from me because I think this is a personal best for me reaching Day 6 in one of your games but like it or not, it's how I roll.

Well, I have a full time job too, albeit one that allows me to play mafia in my down time :P And many others here have full time jobs as well. I don't think that's a necessary dig; I am not accusing you of having unlimited free time.

Glorfindel wrote:I'm not lashing out at all Dom and I'm sorry if you've interpreted it that way. I was trying to address TH's criticism of my play style this game. I think what I'm trying to say is that I'd like to think my approach to my lynch choices could be considered to be thoughtful, considered and 'deliberate'. I didn't appreciate his criticism as I am trying to do my best for this Town team and for him to consider me 'suspicious' on those grounds is I think imprudent and unreasonable.

What I see is you making 12 on-topic posts yesterday, only one of which discusses who you are suspicious of, and you vote on the basis of post. Do you consider that to be thoughtful, considered and deliberate? I don't. You didn't wait to see other opinions on your case, you didn't wait for a response from your subject. You put the thought out there 4 hours before deadline and you voted on it. As town it behooves us to discuss our cases together and I don't see you partaking in those discussions. So your approach, to me, does not resemble the townie mindset - it looks like someone who wants to have an excuse to vote and who wants to get it over and done with as economically as possible. I don't think it is imprudent or unreasonable for me to find that approach suspicious.

Glorfindel wrote:Let me tell you, your credibility with me (as an individual, unrelated to this game) has taken a serious blow as a consequence of this. Let me tell you what this says to me. It says that like other players here, you're always going to support the more experienced players here over someone newer like me. The fact is, it's easier to dismiss the arguments of a newer player over those to whom you've had a lot of game exposure.

I know this was directed at Golden but you allude to it being directed at other players as well, and it saddens me. I don't think Golden is on a witch-hunt against newer players and I don't think anyone else is either. On Day 3 I led a lynch against a player I've played with on-and-off for 8 years. On Day 4, 16 players voted to lynch the creator and administrator of the site. If people are finding you suspicious, it is not because you are a newer player, and suspicions toward you are not indicative of suspicions against all new players. I hope you don't truly feel this way.

Turnip Head wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:Let me tell you, your credibility with me (as an individual, unrelated to this game) has taken a serious blow as a consequence of this. Let me tell you what this says to me. It says that like other players here, you're always going to support the more experienced players here over someone newer like me. The fact is, it's easier to dismiss the arguments of a newer player over those to whom you've had a lot of game exposure.

I know this was directed at Golden but you allude to it being directed at other players as well, and it saddens me. I don't think Golden is on a witch-hunt against newer players and I don't think anyone else is either. On Day 3 I led a lynch against a player I've played with on-and-off for 8 years. On Day 4, 16 players voted to lynch the creator and administrator of the site. If people are finding you suspicious, it is not because you are a newer player, and suspicions toward you are not indicative of suspicions against all new players. I hope you don't truly feel this way.

This. And may I add current suspects include:
-Matt, a veteran player
-SVS, someone I've played with for at least six years at this point

So... this is in addition to:
-Sprit, a newer player
-Glorfindel, a newer player.

This argument that there's a witchhunt on low posters is one I usually join, but is fallacious at its root.

All, just a warning, but my involvement going forward will be unpredictable, and I'll get to your questions as soon as I can. But I just had the most epic of meltdowns in Llama's Rocky game and the last thing I feel like doing in the remote future is playing forum mafia, and I have lots to accomplish today. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks in advance for understanding. I'll be sure to at least try to address everything asked of me before this lynch is over, even if very briefly.

TH: with regards to your question: I start almost all my big mafia games by going through the roles and asking the host(s) a ton of questions, regardless of alignment. The penguin one was one of the questions.

Glorfindel wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I wanna say a sabie teammate might have thrown in the towel at some point but I feel pretty good about all the sabie votes. What do we think of Glofy's vote for MM? He did that thing again where he brings a case forth and votes for it all in the same breath after spending the rest of the day not talking about his reads.

Unlike some of you, I have a full time job and other commitments that mean I can't spend every waking minute here. I do my best to contribute to this game and again, unlike some of you I am uncomfortable lynching a fellow player without some semblance of a case against them. I'd like to think that especailly as we get deeper into these games I prefer to substantiate my lynch with a case based on at least some kind of loose logic and to do so takes time. You may not have seen this from me because I think this is a personal best for me reaching Day 6 in one of your games but like it or not, it's how I roll.

THROWIN DAT SHADE

S~V~S wrote:

Dom wrote:If we're talking about SVS, I think we should talk about whether or not her emotional lashing out over Mac's role claim indicates she is bad. She voted for Mac right before he claimed. She might be lashing out as a reaction of now potentially looking bad. I know SVS HATES role claims (so do I, and their use in this game does not look to be stopping), but she was a bit manipulative with her posts.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 33#p237533
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 38#p237538
These two posts are what I'm talking about.
Now, this is not NEARLY has manipulative or guilt trip inducing as posts in A World Reborn (I'm thinking of the sad bear post), so I'm not nearly as convinced. What do we think of this?

If I had to pick who might be Sabie's teammate(s) between LoRab and SVS, I'd say maybe SVS. Between those two and Matt? I'm not liking Matt these days. I think Glorfindel is acting very bad and sprit is bad too.

You, probably more than anyone, knows how much I hate getting in trouble with MP. But OK.

Go ahead and lynch me. I won't fight back. I have no reason to.

Incredible how SVs's response to Dom's guilt trip criticism is a guilt trip.

I also don't think the "New players" thing holds any water. I've played with my suspicions for the better part of a decade. Pulling the noob card is a little overzealous.

Glorfindel wrote:I'm not lashing out at all Dom and I'm sorry if you've interpreted it that way. I was trying to address TH's criticism of my play style this game. I think what I'm trying to say is that I'd like to think my approach to my lynch choices could be considered to be thoughtful, considered and 'deliberate'. I didn't appreciate his criticism as I am trying to do my best for this Town team and for him to consider me 'suspicious' on those grounds is I think imprudent and unreasonable.

Glorifindel, I would say you are deliberate but as someone else said the suspicious part is though you posted other times during the day you didn't mention MM once. People who are accused deserve a chance to reply to the accusations and the way you posted all of a sudden all at once and then voted didn't leave anytime for a reply. I hear you that you work all day but you did post those other times, why not mention you were considering MM in one of those posts?

Serious question:

At this point in the game is it more or less harmful to openly discuss location information, given the advantage that the mafias hold?

More. I wish I had that info as much as anyone else, but posting it publicly is straight handing it to the mafia.

Fair dues.

Yo peeps. Just replaced into Llama's game and will be doing my best to catch up over there before work today.

I noticed Dom has me on his suss list. Not sure why, Dom, you ask me questions and I answer and then it's done. The latest time you actually realized you made a mistake when questioning me, lulzed it off, and done. Yet I'm still suss in your opinion.

Tonight when I get home from work I'll catch up here and see what you have to say for yourself, Mr. Dom.

Also, I guess everybody thinks MP is really Wonder Boy. Okey dokey.

How about making public the info that known mafia got? Ie looking at sadies or neros locations and making public what can be learned there?

Typhoony wrote:How about making public the info that known mafia got? Ie looking at sadies or neros locations and making public what can be learned there?

Nah

I actually don't think that's a terrible idea... I mean, at least it's more sensible than arbitrarily choosing what to share. They both went to Arkham and GCPD, so all Mafia know those. I'd be willing to share Arkham if it's fine by everyone.

Fuck I went to both

Typhoony wrote:Fuck I went to both

Rekt nerd.

Glorfindel wrote:Let me tell you what this says to me. It says that like other players here, you're always going to support the more experienced players here over someone newer like me.

The facts don't back this up. I'm busy going saying SVS is my number one suspect right now. She also happens to be the only person in this game who also played my first ever mafia game, and is one of my oldest mafia friends.

On day one, my top suspect was MP, also one of my best mafia friends.

Bea, Matt, DH and Typhoony have all taken suspicion from me. I voted DH yesterday. I have my eye on Matt closely. Three more people who I know from my early mafia-ing days.

I have no read on Dom or LoRab, I'm certainly not ruling them out as bad.

Who have I been defending? Enrique, who I've played with twice. Mac, who I met about three months ago. TH, who admittedly I have known for the full year I've been at the Syndicate, but no longer. Bubbles, who is one of the players you listed as newer. Scotty, who I've also only known for about 6 months. and yeah, also juliets and Bullz, who I've known since the old days, and now I'm feeling pretty good about Sorsha too.

Putting that in full context - the people I've known the longest are all over the place in my spectrum. I trust them or don't trust them based on what I see in this game only. Same goes for newbies. Did you know, I never played with sabie before but not once did I ever express suspicion in her or vote for her. By your theory, I would have been all over that... but I kept saying that I did not see the suspicion on her. Potentially to my detriment, since she actually turned out bad. So, why did I do that if I only listen to people I've known for a long time... many of them were amongst those saying sabie was bad.

I'd like you to stop making suspicion about you being new, because you are wrong and I think it is hurting your analysis of the game. But, being realistic, I am saying that anyone who comes in fresh to a site (no matter how experienced they are) tends to get lynched a couple of times early on for being 'different'. It happened to sig, and scotty, and lots of other recent newbies to this site. People are trying to feel you out and don't have a good read on you yet.

But if you want one example of how you feel exactly like Star Wars in this game - it's precisely this... in that game you kept talking about cliques that existed even though what was happening was that people were correctly calling you out as being bad, and someone who had been around a while could tell that what you saw as being a clique was actually a number of people who didn't know each other that well but just happened to agree. Again in this game, you are trying to put measures on 'who is new' (like, how many posts they have) but you can't judge me on that basis because you don't even know who I know well and who I don't.

Golden, I am trying to get a handle on the SVS suspicion. I saw what Dom had to say - do you have different reasons for suspecting her or are they the saem. If you covered this and I missed it just point me to your iso.

Also, just saying, not only do I work all day in a job that is increidlby full on, and that at the moment I have to do two full peoples jobs, but I haven't been home at night for 7 of the last 11 nights, because I sit on two boards and one of them has had some incredibly destructive and difficult issues its had to work through. Next week, I start running a preaching course, which I've had to prep for. Amongst all of that, my wife has been really ill. Suicidally, I also have 481 posts in this game, while hosting a game on this site too.

I don't expect anyone to post at any particular level, and I'm not going to be critical of anyone who doesn't. But, conversely, you shouldn't assume that just because I've managed to post a lot means I somehow have a whole lot more time.

(I actually also think the case on glorf about his MM vote isn't great. I thought the vote was well reasoned and fair.)

juliets wrote:Golden, I am trying to get a handle on the SVS suspicion. I saw what Dom had to say - do you have different reasons for suspecting her or are they the saem. If you covered this and I missed it just point me to your iso.

The same as what? I haven't had time to flesh it out more, but I do think she could be sabie's teammate.

MovingPictures07 wrote:All, just a warning, but my involvement going forward will be unpredictable, and I'll get to your questions as soon as I can. But I just had the most epic of meltdowns in Llama's Rocky game and the last thing I feel like doing in the remote future is playing forum mafia, and I have lots to accomplish today. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks in advance for understanding. I'll be sure to at least try to address everything asked of me before this lynch is over, even if very briefly.

DharmaHelper wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Dom wrote:If we're talking about SVS, I think we should talk about whether or not her emotional lashing out over Mac's role claim indicates she is bad. She voted for Mac right before he claimed. She might be lashing out as a reaction of now potentially looking bad. I know SVS HATES role claims (so do I, and their use in this game does not look to be stopping), but she was a bit manipulative with her posts.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 33#p237533
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 38#p237538
These two posts are what I'm talking about.
Now, this is not NEARLY has manipulative or guilt trip inducing as posts in A World Reborn (I'm thinking of the sad bear post), so I'm not nearly as convinced. What do we think of this?

If I had to pick who might be Sabie's teammate(s) between LoRab and SVS, I'd say maybe SVS. Between those two and Matt? I'm not liking Matt these days. I think Glorfindel is acting very bad and sprit is bad too.

You, probably more than anyone, knows how much I hate getting in trouble with MP. But OK.

Go ahead and lynch me. I won't fight back. I have no reason to.

Incredible how SVs's response to Dom's guilt trip criticism is a guilt trip.

It just sort of reminds me of these posts from AWR:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 96#p208596
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 66#p207566

Matt wrote:Yo peeps. Just replaced into Llama's game and will be doing my best to catch up over there before work today.

I noticed Dom has me on his suss list. Not sure why, Dom, you ask me questions and I answer and then it's done. The latest time you actually realized you made a mistake when questioning me, lulzed it off, and done. Yet I'm still suss in your opinion.

Tonight when I get home from work I'll catch up here and see what you have to say for yourself, Mr. Dom.

Also, I guess everybody thinks MP is really Wonder Boy. Okey dokey.

what I have to say for myself?
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I forgot that I made a mistake with that suspicion I raised earlier. So scratch Matt.

Golden wrote:

juliets wrote:Golden, I am trying to get a handle on the SVS suspicion. I saw what Dom had to say - do you have different reasons for suspecting her or are they the saem. If you covered this and I missed it just point me to your iso.

The same as what? I haven't had time to flesh it out more, but I do think she could be sabie's teammate.

I was asking if your reasons are the same as Dom's reasons but I see now they probably aren't. Thanks for the response.

juliets wrote:

Golden wrote:

juliets wrote:Golden, I am trying to get a handle on the SVS suspicion. I saw what Dom had to say - do you have different reasons for suspecting her or are they the saem. If you covered this and I missed it just point me to your iso.

The same as what? I haven't had time to flesh it out more, but I do think she could be sabie's teammate.

I was asking if your reasons are the same as Dom's reasons but I see now they probably aren't. Thanks for the response.

I don't think I've seen Dom's reasons, I'll go back and look for them.

I'm done talking to Dom, this is just getting me flustered and nowhere

FWIW I don't think SVS is bad here. In World Reborn she fought until the bitter end, even when her goose was all but cooked. I think she's just tired of having her character called into question here. Her voting for herself is frustrating but I don't think it's a baddie tell.

Turnip Head wrote:FWIW I don't think SVS is bad here. In World Reborn she fought until the bitter end, even when her goose was all but cooked. I think she's just tired of having her character called into question here. Her voting for herself is frustrating but I don't think it's a baddie tell.

I don't see a self-vote as a baddie tell, but she was also fighting for the win of a team full of people who really care about winning, like tranq and Typh, in a team that had every chance of winning till the very end. She was always going to do everything in her power there. What if sabie says 'don't worry about it' and the third person is an absentee or something?

I do take your point, I hadn't seen SVS self-voted, but for me that isn't enough to say 'she definitely isn't bad'.

That seems like an odd argument to make tbh.

Enrique wrote:That seems like an odd argument to make tbh.

Which one?

I just went and saw Dom's points. No, I don't think SVS reaction to Mac was manipulative. I think it was her being genuinely saddened at a role hint.

Thanks for the response Golden.

MovingPictures07 wrote:At this point in time I think I would prefer a lynch as follows:
1) SVS
2) Glorfindel
3) sprityo
4) no show

I also don't really particularly suspect Enrique anymore, but I'm keeping an eye on him. I think I was being a bit over critical in my analysis of his behavior.

Et tu MP?

Golden wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:FWIW I don't think SVS is bad here. In World Reborn she fought until the bitter end, even when her goose was all but cooked. I think she's just tired of having her character called into question here. Her voting for herself is frustrating but I don't think it's a baddie tell.

I don't see a self-vote as a baddie tell, but she was also fighting for the win of a team full of people who really care about winning, like tranq and Typh, in a team that had every chance of winning till the very end. She was always going to do everything in her power there. What if sabie says 'don't worry about it' and the third person is an absentee or something?

I do take your point, I hadn't seen SVS self-voted, but for me that isn't enough to say 'she definitely isn't bad'.

This post just seems incredibly off to me. I'm having a lot of trouble articulating why, but basically, it just seems redundant? Like on one hand you're agreeing with TH, but you also feel the need to make an unnecessary connection to sabie by using a game in which the opposite scenario happened. Does this make sense? It's like you just went out on your way to cling to SVS' reaction as a talking point, while seemingly washing your hands of the matter.

idk I get "open-minded" and all but the whole post just looks really unnecessary. Nobody said she "definitely isn't bad" so what were you getting at at all?

What if sabie says 'don't worry about it' and the third person is an absentee or something?

Like, this isn't a point. It's a made up scenario and it still gives us no indication of a baddie tell anywhere.

Enrique wrote:

Golden wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:FWIW I don't think SVS is bad here. In World Reborn she fought until the bitter end, even when her goose was all but cooked. I think she's just tired of having her character called into question here. Her voting for herself is frustrating but I don't think it's a baddie tell.

I don't see a self-vote as a baddie tell, but she was also fighting for the win of a team full of people who really care about winning, like tranq and Typh, in a team that had every chance of winning till the very end. She was always going to do everything in her power there. What if sabie says 'don't worry about it' and the third person is an absentee or something?

I do take your point, I hadn't seen SVS self-voted, but for me that isn't enough to say 'she definitely isn't bad'.

This post just seems incredibly off to me. I'm having a lot of trouble articulating why, but basically, it just seems redundant? Like on one hand you're agreeing with TH, but you also feel the need to make an unnecessary connection to sabie by using a game in which the opposite scenario happened. Does this make sense? It's like you just went out on your way to cling to SVS' reaction as a talking point, while seemingly washing your hands of the matter.

idk I get "open-minded" and all but the whole post just looks really unnecessary. Nobody said she "definitely isn't bad" so what were you getting at at all?

TH said he does not think she is bad because she self-voted and she wouldn't do it if she was bad. I disagree. I'm not agreeing with TH at all, like in any way in the slightest, so I'm not sure how you get that (even by saying 'I see your point'. I do see it. I disagree with it.) I'm not making an 'unnecessary connection to sabie', I've been saying she is sabie's teammate and that I suspect her for it. And I'm saying that TH's rationale for why she is good is not persuasive, to me, because World Reborn and this game are completely different.

Enrique wrote:

What if sabie says 'don't worry about it' and the third person is an absentee or something?

Like, this isn't a point. It's a made up scenario and it still gives us no indication of a baddie tell anywhere.

Golden wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Turns out that was a short list.

LoRab
Matt
SVS

SVS and Matt also voted Mac. SVS at a particularly suspicion time.

I'll admit I already came into today with my eye firmly on SVS, but if I get the chance I am going to be seriously checking her out for a possible sabie teamie.

And like, a whole lot of analysis done on this point by DH that you seem to have missed.

Did you mis the bit where she put Mac at 4 votes when Sabie was on 5?

The whole point of the SVS suspicious is that she is Sabie's teammate. The two cannot be divorced.

I don't see a self-vote as a baddie tell

What makes this different? And the AWR scenario isn't an answer, it doesn't come into play at all.

linki- Explain what that has to do with my post? You're making excuses for her behavior to match your preconceived bias. When talking strictly about the self-vote, you're forcing a scenario where there's nothing to go on. The point is that the whole post I quoted is making her look bad for the sake of it. I have no problem with there being a case on SVS based on the Mac vote, I have some problems with making other faulty connections to get her lynched.

"She acted differently in a game where the circumstances were different." Well... okay. That leaves me with nothing.

Enrique wrote:

I don't see a self-vote as a baddie tell

What makes this different? And the AWR scenario isn't an answer, it doesn't come into play at all.

linki- Explain what that has to do with my post? You're making excuses for her behavior to match your preconceived bias. When talking strictly about the self-vote, you're forcing a scenario where there's nothing to go on. The point is that the whole post I quoted is making her look bad for the sake of it. I have no problem with there being a case on SVS based on the Mac vote, I have some problems with making other faulty connections to get her lynched.

I have literally no idea what you mean here.

But I meant to say "I don't see a self-vote as a civvie tell"